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Redistricting 2011: Mississippi & N.Y.

by: Nathaniel90

Thu May 14, 2009 at 9:19 PM EDT


After a couple-week hiatus, I'm back to Episode 11 of my redistricting series! On tap for tonight's episode: a magnolia founds the next world empire! Or, rather, I've paired two unlikely diary neighbors, New York and Mississippi.

There were a number of people who earlier asked me why I hadn't yet covered New York, one of the obvious choices for an early redistricting diary. The reason is that back in March I drew a map for NY that assumed Jim Tedisco would win NY-20 and be primed for elimination in 2012. Just tonight I redrew New York to, on the contrary, make the 20th more Democratic to help Murphy (though the news wasn't all good, and I'll get to that momentarily).

Previous efforts:
Diary 1: Massachusetts and Texas
Diary 2: Michigan and Nevada
Diary 3: Iowa and Ohio
Diary 4: Georgia and New Jersey
Diary 5: Florida and Louisiana
Diary 6: Pennsylvania and Utah
Diary 7: Illinois and South Carolina
Diary 8: Indiana, Missouri, and Oregon
Diary 9: Alabama, Arizona, and Kentucky
Diary 10: Colorado and Minnesota

The chasm lies below...

Nathaniel90 :: Redistricting 2011: Mississippi & N.Y.
Mississippi

With only four districts and a Democratic legislature offset by Republican Gov. Haley Barbour, the goal here was simple: help Travis Childers and make his 1st District considerably more Democratic without noticeably diluting the 2nd (a VRA-protected black-majority district). Much like ArkDem's Mississippi map from some time ago, mine keeps the 2nd solidly black-majority while moving the needle in the 1st several points in the Democrats' favor. Unfortunately, there seems to be literally no way to prevent Gene Taylor's 4th, in 2008 McCain's strongest district in the state, from eventually flipping to the GOP. The Gulf Coast counties are just too absurdly Republican (little-known fact: Trent Lott represented the 4th not long before Taylor, who won a 1989 special election when Lott's GOP successor died).

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District 1 - Travis Childers (D-Booneville) -- the overwhelming Republican nature of Mississippi's northernmost counties prompted me to make a truly audacious move (hat tip to ArkDem on this) in removing DeSoto County, a major source of GOP votes, from this district and putting it instead with the mostly black, Delta-based 2nd. This district carefully grabs more marginally Republican counties that were previously with the 3rd and some black counties that were in the 2nd without, I think, overreaching. McCain would likely have still won here, but not with 62% as before (since my methods are so low-tech, I can only guesstimate, and I'll say with only minimal knowledge that this variation of the 1st is probably about 55-57% McCain, enough to keep Childers solid and keep the district well in play for a future Democrat).

District 2 - Bennie Thompson (D-Bolton) -- other than its two-county northern reach, this district is heavily Democratic and hopefully at least 60% black, with an Obama percentage somewhere around 63-65%.

District 3 - Gregg Harper (R-Pearl) -- once I had set aside most available Democratic turf for Thompson or Childers, and drawn a logical Southern Mississippi seat for Taylor, this constitutes what was left over (hint: a lot of white Republicans, who easily overwhelm the significant minority of black Democrats).

District 4 - Gene Taylor (D-Bay St. Louis) -- I hoped against hope that there was a way to bring the McCain share under 60%, even under 65%, but that's impossible as far as I can tell. Consider this district a loan that can be deferred only as long as Taylor chooses to stay.

New York

Well, then...I had to eliminate one seat (it's possible the Empire State will lose two, as in the last reapportionment, but all models currently project that its 28th slot will barely be saved). Murphy winning NY-20, much as it thrilled me, put a real monkey wrench in my plans and forced me to start over with the upstate districts, especially since there are a handful of upstate Democrats with marginal districts needing protection (damn all those votes being wasted in the city!). I started my do-over looking for a way to eliminate Pete King without jeopardizing shaky Democratic strength on Long Island...turns out, not a good idea. Population loss is mostly confined to upstate, so any NYC or Long Island seat elimination will cause havoc with the necessarily illogical lines. Simply put, the dropped seat will have to be upstate. If New York ends up dropping two, maybe King can be drawn out.

I tried drawing upstate a few different ways, each messier and more gerrymandered than the last, until deciding to try something a little controversial: put Mike Arcuri at risk. Of course, I started this process wanting to shore up Arcuri, just like Massa, Murphy, Maffei, and Hall, but eventually discovered that his district would be the most difficult to shore up based on pure geography. It's not hard to move the 20th north, or put a little Rochester into Massa's district, but with so many narrowly GOP-leaning and swing counties in the middle of the state, helping Arcuri would have been a lot tougher.

So I paired Arcuri with veteran Republican John McHugh in a relatively even-handed district. That may bode ill for Arcuri (whose first reelection in 2008 was shockingly close) against the longtime incumbent from up north, but with Obama likely to again command some coattails in 2012 New York, maybe he has a good shot. On the flip side, McHugh hasn't faced a tough race in forever and may bow out rather than test his probably rusty survival skills. So my proposed 23rd is a tough call, and Democrats in the legislature might prefer to seek a certain GOP loss, but they'll be forced to resort to some mighty contortions of mapmaking to derive that result.

Other than that risky move, my other choices were, I think, logically conceived and beneficial to the Democrats. Murphy and Massa are the big winners in this map, as are Hall and Maffei to a lesser degree. It was hard not to spread upstate Dem votes too thin, especially since upstate counties tend to be within 55% one way or the other (unlike the overwhelming Democratic margins in the city), but I think I may have pulled it off, at least as well as I could while equipped with such minimal redistricting tools.

Photobucket

You can't easily see the urban districts, which is good because I wasn't able to be very precise with them (what with only a calculator, Excel, and Paint to guide me). In fact, my changes to the NYC and Long Island districts were so minimal that there's little point to addressing each district individually. Suffice to say that, other than maintaining VRA racial protections, the only "downstate" district I thought carefully about was the 13th, which in my map comprises all of Staten Island plus a small portion of Brooklyn. Beginning at the bottom of the Hudson Valley, then:

District 17 - Eliot Engel (D-Bronx) -- stretches from the Bronx to Orange County. I diluted Democratic strength a little bit to help John Hall, but the 17th stays a safe seat.

District 18 - Nita Lowey (D-Harrison) -- entirely within Westchester County, safely Democratic.

District 19 - John Hall (D-Dover Plains) -- 91% of Dutchess, 28% of Orange, all of Putnam, and 23% of Westchester = Dem-leaning and more clearly Dem-trending suburban/exurban district.

District 20 - Scott Murphy (D-Glens Falls) -- altered not just to become more Democratic (and it obviously is, in this iteration) but specifically to strengthen Murphy, by grabbing more of the rural north and dropping most of Saratoga. Perhaps Murphy will do well in Saratoga in 2010, without a regional pol as his opponent, but since Obama's numbers were stronger up north than in Saratoga anyway, this seemed like a sensible choice.

District 21 - Paul Tonko (D-Albany) -- a bit less Democratic, this district still includes all of Albany County but also all of Schenectady and 79% of Saratoga. Tonko would represent three major upstate towns under my map, which may present occasional conflicts of interest, but certainly appeases the "geographical compactness" fetishists.

District 22 - Maurice Hinchey (D-Hurley) -- sheds a few Democrats to help Arcuri and Massa, but stays Dem-leaning and reasonably compact. The toughest pill to swallow for Hinchey would be ceding liberal Tompkins County (Ithaca) to Arcuri/McHugh while picking up some moderate Republican turf in the Hudson Valley. This is what I mean about having to balance the interests of different Democrats upstate. Hinchey, and a future Democrat, should still be just fine here.

District 23 - John McHugh (R-Pierrepont Manor) vs. Mike Arcuri (D-Utica) -- combines some of McHugh's rural northern counties (the more Democratic of which were given to Murphy) with Arcuri's Oneida County base and some overwhelmingly Arcuri-friendly territory down in Ithaca. Knowing McHugh's moderate reputation, popularity with military interests, and seniority advantage, I went out of my way to give Arcuri a fighting chance. For whatever it's worth, this district would have voted for Obama, as did both of the current districts -- Arcuri's 24th and McHugh's 23rd.

District 24 - Dan Maffei (D-Syracuse) -- what was involved with this district was more tinkering than careful strategy, as any reasonable take on Maffei's district will result in something Onondaga County-heavy and Dem-leaning.

District 25 - Chris Lee (R-Clarence) -- a true "leftovers" district after I had done everything within reason to put Massa's 28th in the Obama column while keeping Slaughter and Higgins rock-solid. Other than Chautauqua County and some Buffalo-area neighborhoods, this district should be plenty Republican. And yes, I know some of you would have liked me to eliminate Lee, but there are enough GOP votes in this part of New York that Massa (or Higgins) would have been doomed for defeat under that plan.

District 26 - Brian Higgins (D-Buffalo) -- literally stretches from Buffalo to Niagara Falls, for a Rust Belt-ish industrial and Democratic-leaning district.

District 27 - Louise Slaughter (D-Fairport) -- much like its current form, this covers most of the "lakeshore curve" in Western New York, stretching east from Niagara Falls to Rochester (about 2/3 of Monroe County is here, with the other third given to Massa, who definitely could use the electoral aid, while Rules Committee Chairwoman Slaughter is safe as can be).

District 28 - Eric Massa (D-Corning) -- if this district were a tourism ad, its slogan would be "where West and Central meet". The Rochester portion of the district likely puts Massa in a much more advantageous position and results in a slightly Obama-supporting district (the current 29th voted for McCain). Monroe County is easily the largest population source, with Ontario, Steuben, Chemung, and Cayuga (88% of which is here) rounding out the top five. Though it's far from a Democratic stronghold, this district may be my most effective upstate seat in terms of the overall change in its partisan composition.

Overall, this map does what we'd all like in somewhat solidifying a three-seat ceiling for the Republicans (a very bad year might result in defeats for Massa and either Hall or Murphy, but the average year would preserve at least 25 Democratic seats out of 28), one of which is quite vulnerable. More sophisticated technology would doubtlessly allow me to create more precise boundaries and more accurately estimate the partisan dynamics of each district, but given the limited resources I have, I think I did pretty okay.

Thoughts on either state? What else do you want to see from this redistricting series?

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I hope this plan also
shores up McMahon (NY-13, pretty easy to do, connect Staten Island to Manhattan) and really hurts Peter King(R-asshole).

We should be able to draw a map that could give us a 27-1 edge in Congress.


I think 27-1 would be incredibly hard or impossible
Even if my map results in 26-2, with Arcuri beating McHugh, people don't seem to notice that Dem numbers have pretty much peaked in NYC and Long Island. In a few districts, Gore did better than Obama (it seems that Gore did better in downstate New York than any Dem in memory), and Long Island seems to be very, very slowly trending back to the GOP, at least on the presidential level. So damaging King will be at the severe short- or long-term peril of Tim Bishop, most likely. I'd try to keep the status quo going in all the city and LI districts as much as possible...though connecting Staten Island with Manhattan instead of Brooklyn is actually a very interesting idea, and one I didn't try for fear of making too much of a numerical mess with the Manhattan seats.

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.

[ Parent ]
I'd rip King's district into many pieces
and attach 6 districts in NYC and LI to each of King's pieces.  And create a new district in NYC (which very possibly gained enough population to stay even).

[ Parent ]
Ripping King's might work
Put part of it in Ackerman's, part in McCarthy's, part across the water in Lowey's and part in Israel's.  

[ Parent ]
I noticed that trend.
I wrote a diary about it. We should throw everything at winning NY-03 if Peter King runs for statewide office in 2010, because it could just get harder later on.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

[ Parent ]
I'm skeptical about that
Obama was about as much as a misfit as you can get for a Democrat for Long Island.  He was possibly the worst Democrat for the region.  Clinton or someone like Biden would have done oodles better on Long Island.

Since Obama won't be the candidate for Congress, I think we have a good chance to pick up NY-3 soon.  However, I would just split NY-3 six ways (and draw several NYC districts into Long Island) to pick up King's territory.  And then I'd draw a new district in NYC.


[ Parent ]
You are right
Clinton or Biden or most Democrats would imo have done better on Long Isand and in the NY suburbs in general.  Several districts in the Northeast seem significantly harder to take over than befor the election, NJ-5 certainly among them.  I really do want to see Garrett retired to oblivion.

One thing I like about the map that is pretty tangential.  It moves the solid blue area slightly west by taking the eastern border of NY and putting it into Murphy's district.  Nice to see the wave spilling over.


[ Parent ]
I wonder
If the trend back to the GOP, on LI, is because of Irish and Italian Catholics moving there from places like Brooklyn and Queens. They might be traditionally Dem but would be very open to supporting the right Republicans.

[ Parent ]
mcmahon
probably doesn't need much shoring up. from my perspective just outside of the brooklyn edge of that district, he already had a pretty strong hold & fit in SI from his time on city council, and all the SI republican electeds seem content to stay put and not risk their salaries... and i'll even give him credit for seeming slightly more progressive than i expected him to so far...

It is difficult to get the news from poems, but men die miserably every day for lack of what is found there. --William Carlos Williams

[ Parent ]
As far as Mississippi
MS-4 is hopeless.  I'd even think about making it more Repub (Taylor would hold it anyway) and trying to hurt Harper in MS-3.

Yeah Harper's district is underrated as a takeover target
With the right lines drawn (aka don't worry about Taylor's district and try and find a way to make Thompson's district a bit less AA) Harper could be vulnerable and we could be left with 1 great district that is slightly weakened (MS-02), 2 decent districts (MS-01, MS-03) and a terrible district that will would probably swing Republican eventually whenever Taylor retires (MS-04).

[ Parent ]
Do you folks think that's possible?
How could you strengthen Childers significantly and weaken Harper while avoiding a lawsuit re: the black % in MS-02? Seems awfully dicey. In any case, while I'd love to try that sometime, I had to draw a map assuming a Dem legislature and GOP governor, and you can bet Barbour would veto any map that aimed to hurt Harper. (And the Democrats wouldn't draw one anyway; protecting Childers will likely be their only major priority.)

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.

[ Parent ]
No, I don't buy it
It's better to play it safe and focus our energy on shoring up MS-01.  Gene Taylor is never going to be in danger and the majority black seat is likewise safe.

[ Parent ]
agreed
No room to get cute in a state like Mississippi.

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.

[ Parent ]
Not as hard as we think
It's 63% AA now (not like trying to monkey with Mel Watt or Butterfield in NC, Bishop in GA-02, or Johnson in GA-04, Clyburn in SC-06, or the two minority-majority Missouri districts), so we've got a cushion. In fact, after a quick search, it seems Bobby Rush's IL-01 is the only more AA district in the nation.  The easiest way to screw with Harper is just to move more of Jackson over.  I'm sure we could keep 50% by moving some, but not all, of the city.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Yeah seriously
This wouldn't take too much work, just lessen the black percentage of MS 02 by a bit and put it in MS 03, and BTW does Barbour even have veto power?


[ Parent ]
Former Rep. Ronnie Shows
He really should have taken a crack at that seat last year when it was open.  He could have made it a competitive race.

[ Parent ]
And Taylor
Is still pretty young (only 55). Its conceivable that hed stay in the House for another 20-25 years. And if he hasnt run for Sen. or Gov. yet then i doubt he ever will.

[ Parent ]
Florida
How does the potential election of Alex Sink to FL governor alter your map?

Changes it significantly, I imagine
I'm admittedly superstitious about betting on a Democrat to win any high-stakes election in Florida, but plan to eventually draw a hypothetical "Sink wins, bipartisan compromise" map. That would have to be an incumbent protection map aimed at helping the Republicans hold all their increasingly marginal Central FL seats and, most importantly, salvage Democrats in the 2nd (Boyd), 8th (Grayson), 22nd (Klein), and 24th (Kosmas). It'd probably preserve the Republicans' 15-10 edge but create a new swing seat along I-4. Anyway, I'll look at Florida again in a little while.

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.

[ Parent ]
That's my thinking
A 15-10 map like we have now but with the addition of a new tossup seat in the Orlando area.  Though the new map would protect our four most at-risk seats - Boyd, Grayson, Kosmas and Klein.  If we pickup any seats in 2010, namely FL-10 (Young) or FL-12 (Open) those seats could be protected as well.  

The three south Florida Cuban seats are likely to remain with nearly the same boundaries.  They's be marginally republican for now but trending democratic very fast.  We'll pick them off eventually.


[ Parent ]
And Kosmas
Isnt getting any younger (I feel kind of bad saying that about a woman, but just trying to be factual) so itd be important to shore up her district.  

[ Parent ]
You put DeSoto in Bennie Thompson's district?
HA!

And in NY, you've doomed Arcuri
I'm 90% sure of that.

[ Parent ]
I have to agree
Aruri isn't the greatest campaigner.  I seriously doubt he would beat McHugh.  He's probably lose handily actually.

[ Parent ]
I saw the risk immediately
but couldn't figure out a better way with my woefully lacking resources. I'd love to see a map that ensures 26-2, but personally I didn't see how without drawing some seriously screwed-up district lines. Lee and McHugh are all that's left upstate, and if you try to eliminate all leftover Republican strength upstate you risk overreaching and putting a handful of Dems in jeopardy.

I look forward to seeing someone with better tools try New York.

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.


[ Parent ]
If the Dems have complete control
they will draw as many seriously screwed up lines as they need. All you need is the political data, a copy of maptitude, and a free weekend. Personally, I'm lacking the maptitude.

[ Parent ]
Lacking the Maptitude but not the free weekend?
Enjoy it while you can - coming from the father of a two-year-old.

Surprisingly enough, the last 'free weekend' I had was when my wife flew out of town for a bridal shower last summer & left me with the baby.

Not complaining, just laughing on the inside.


[ Parent ]
heh
Every blessing has a curse, or something like that.

Congrats on your family.


[ Parent ]
Lee, not McHugh, Nathaniel
Slaughter and Higgins's districts are hemorrhaging people...fast.  They need area and can easily get it from Chris Lee.  Lee's toast, Slaughter can swallow Rochester's western suburban counties without a single burp, and Higgins gets the rest of Erie County and a little bit east of the city--something on the order of John LaFalce's old stomping grounds, but not quite that socially conservative.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Most of the population growth in MS
Is black growth.  By 2022 I'll bet there will be enough of them for two black-majority seats.

Or eventually the Dist 3 Rep
will just lose. That's how it happened in the 2nd in the 80s with Mike Espy. Everyone was amazed that he got 12%(!) of the white vote. About as well as Obama did in MS & AL this year.

The deep south is why I don't complain about mostly white West Virginia "only" giving Obama 42% of the vote. If he'd done that well among whites in the deep south, he would have swept the entire eastern time zone and most of central.


[ Parent ]
Although Espy got 40-50% of the white vote
in his reelection bids.

[ Parent ]
And then went on to endorse Haley Barbour
He's basically a Republican now, and everyone knows it. I suspect many did when he was getting said white vote too.

Anyway, my point remains that the deep south remains a cesspool politically. It's worse than corrupt: it's evil.


[ Parent ]
well, I moved to Savannah last year
and have to say the South isn't anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be. I realize Savannah, Georgia is reputedly a much more sophisticated town than Selma, Alabama or Philadelphia, Mississippi, but still...let's not paint with too broad a brush. In my short time I've seen a few scarily backward places in my beloved California and some very tolerant places here in Georgia.  

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.

[ Parent ]
You live in the part of the world
where Dems routinely get about 25% of the white vote, down from ~30% 15 years ago.

Go 300 miles west and you'll get the picture.  


[ Parent ]
That's because you moved to Savannah
Try somewhere like Calhoun or Cartersville.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

[ Parent ]
A good friend of mine lives in Paulding County
and it seems more exurban "SUV conservative" to me than George Wallace hicksville.  

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.

[ Parent ]
Dumb question
Are there any Dixiecrat Dems left in Congress?

Or have they all retired, or pulled a Richard Shelby?

I can't say I've paid enough attention to our representatives from that region.


[ Parent ]
Depends on how you define Dixiecrat
I suspect my answer would be different than David's or James's.

[ Parent ]
Bobby Bright in AL-2
is certainly a Dixiecrat, he endorsed Mike Huckabee last year.

Parker Griffith, Dan Boren, Gene Taylor, and Travis Childers are likely Dixiecrats too.


[ Parent ]
Ten most conservative
In order, the ten Democrats with the lowest lifetime Progressive Punch scores in the House are:

Walt Minnick, ID-1   43.65
Gene Taylor, MS-4    53.95
Bobby Bright,Al-2    55.56
Collin Peterson, MN-7 61.41
Travis Childers,MS-1  65.11
Ike Skelton, MO-9    66.01
John Tanner, TN-8    66.51
Mike McIntyre, NC-7  66.86
Jim Marshall,GA-8    69.09
Allen Boyd, FL-2     69.98

All other Democrats in the House have career scores above 70, some barely.

Skelton appears to have had a "road to Damascus" type change.  His score for the current session is 96.85 more than 30 points higher than his lifetime score.  Skelton likes to think of himself as a "Harry Truman Democrat" but I always saw him as the reincarnation of L. Mendell Rivers, the Charleston SC Democrat who bossed the Armed Services Committee during the Vietnam War.  Skelton, of cours, chairs the same committee 40 years later.  Un like Rivers, Skelton is not as gifted in bringing goodies to the district.


[ Parent ]
Some of the Tennesse reps may qualify
But even they are much less conservative than the typically Dixiecrats of pre-1990's.

[ Parent ]
Any way to dig up previous congresses
Reading this list and Chad's comment below, is there any way to compare these scores to known Dixiecrats like, say, Richard Shelby when he was a Dem, Tom Bevill, Glen Browder, Watkins Abbitt of Virginia, W.C. Daniel of Virginia, Howard Smith of Virginia, Bill Hefner of North Carolina, L. Mendel Rivers, John Jennrette, Butler Derrick, Marilyn Lloyd, Ed Jones, Lawrence McDonald, George Darden, William Natcher, Wilbur Mills, Harry Flood Byrd, Hale Boggs, Overton Brooks, John Rarick, Lindy Boggs, Speedy Long, Jamie Whitten, Sonny Montgomery, Richard Ichord, Wright Patman, John Dowdy, J.J. Pickle, etc.  

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Best measure I can find is the American Conservative Union database
http://www.acuratings.org/

Of course they rate by how conservative a voting record is, so lower means more liberal and higher more conservative.  It is sortable by year and chamber.


[ Parent ]
Database goes back as far as 1971


[ Parent ]
What's interesting
Is that the delegations of states like Florida and Georgia are actually much less conservative today than they were in the 70's and 80's, despite the fact that the delegations were mostly democratic back then and republican today.

Basically today's southern conservative/Dixiecrat Dems like Marshall and Taylor are still far left of the ones from decades ago on almost everything.


[ Parent ]
That was my point
I'm not sure even Bright qualifies at Dixiecrat by Dixiecrat standards.  I think DW-Nominate might be better, since ACU scores like ADA scores use a VERY blunt tool.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Good work
Yeah Taylor's district is gone as soon as he leaves.  No point in trying to blue it, Taylor can win just fine without us.  While Harper's district would be ripe for a challenge with just a few more Democrats, Barbour isn't going to let the Dems go for a shutout like back in the early 90s.  Protecting Childers, and giving us basically two permanent seats in Mississippi is the best we can hope for.  Considering how red the state is, that's not a bad goal.

As for New York, while it is fun to imagine squeezing out King, Lee, and McHugh, it really isn't feasible as you recognize.  Perhaps slight alterations, just moving counties around might destabilize them, but we really can't lose any more Democrats from the surrounding districts or we risk over-reaching.  We already hold a bunch of really marginal seats upstate and on Long Island.


Funny
All three of the Mississippi Democrats won their seats in special elections.

Hate to hurt these two
But merging Arcuri and McHugh might not have been the most logical way to do it.  Maybe if we lose two out of NY, we can do away with McHugh, but the twit's popular, entrenched, and not certifiably crazy.  All of which cannot be said for Chris Lee.  Slaughter and Higgins districts are just hemorrhaging people and are designed to be overwhelmingly Democratic.  Crack Lee's district in two and spread it out accordingly (Erie and the more Democratic of the remaining counties to Higgins, who needs more cushion, and the rest, including Genesee and Orleans (Rochester adjacent) to Slaughter.  Her replacement might be a bit more conservative, but not by miles.  Maybe, even Maffei's district could eat a bit of it.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

Title was misleading
I meant Slaughter and Higgins, of course, but I start so far down with my plan, I needed to clarify. I'd love to draw-and-quarter McHugh's district too, but it can wait.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Yup
I'm confident that Maffei can beat Lee in a district tilted towards him.  

[ Parent ]
Considering how close they are
Geography dictates Lee's house be in Higgins' district, though.  Slaughter and Maffei are much closer than Maffei and Lee (or Slaughter and Lee)  It would take a really tortured map to get Lee-Maffei. My only claim was that Maffei could take some of the easternmost chunks of the 26th that Slaughter might not want.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
how about a Murphy/McHugh district
made out of all the northern counties. I think Murphy would be better at competing up there than Arcuri.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

Might work
Will result in a pretty gerrymandered seat for Arcuri, but might just work.

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.

[ Parent ]
I was thinking along the lines
of a Lee/McHugh district.

That's what touch point contiguity is for.


[ Parent ]
Wait, that works?
They have touchpoint contiguity?  Where?  Looks like NY-25 separates the two (By two...well, one and change counties, no less, far east Monroe and most of Wayne).

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Yup, they've got that
Georgia Democrats used it in 2002, and so did North Carolina IIRC. It's legal and often quite convenient.

[ Parent ]
I know it's legal
I just can't see it on a map with the 23rd and 26th.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
I think you'd draw a long tube
with four splits in the middle, creating a dumbbell district.

[ Parent ]
Most of that tube
Now belongs to Rep. Maffei, though.  I assume the "tube" includes Wayne and Monroe Counties.  I'm looking at what's already there, not what I could gin up.  Besides, in a matchup like this, Lee might win.  In my case, he loses, and we either get a chance at McHugh if we lose two, or he retires very soon.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Well, the tube would only
have to have a minimal number of people in it. the point would be to just connect the most Republican parts of the current Republican districts.

Anyway, who knows what will end up happening.


[ Parent ]
Too true
Would you be able to map the dumbbell and tube as you see it (crudely, of course, since none of us have mapitude or anything like it)?

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Maybe if I get a blank map and some free time
Prospects don't look good, though. . .

[ Parent ]
Actually
No need.  Just tell me the counties/partial counties you'd pull out.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
I haven't done the population count
but it would look something like: Hamilton, Fulton, Herkimer (part), Lewis, Jefferson, Livingston, Wyoming, Genesee, Orleans. Essentially, just take the most Republican parts of the two districts, and add up to the population you'd need for one whole new district. Connect with a near-zero population line through the 25th and 29th districts.

[ Parent ]
Where's the line
How do you make the 25th and 29th contiguous with themselves, then?  Wayne county would be pretty barren, but you have to go around the eastern Rochester suburbs.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
You just use touch points within the "tube"


[ Parent ]
Oh god
I'm seriously not a visual thinker without a map, so I'm sorry if I was repeating myself, but I get it now.  I had assumed touchpoint contiguity on either end, not in the tube.  I get it now. That's brilliant.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
And presto: one Republican left upstate


[ Parent ]
It is a tragedy
that there has to be even one Repub from New York at all.

[ Parent ]
McHugh is probably unbeatable
so we have to try and contain him while at the same time removing Chris Lee. Probably we can get rid of Peter King by playing super slicer with Long Island.

[ Parent ]
It is
But sadly we have to concded them one seat, maybe even two.

Feels weird saying that considering republicans held something like 12 or 13 seats as recently as 2002 in NY.  


[ Parent ]
If Lee wins this district
There won't be.  We could beat him, I think, without a divisive primary.  McHugh's too inoffensive to lose before he retires unless we target him and not Lee, who is by far a worse offender.  If we get two seat elimination, we also get Pete King out of office (some of NY-03 to Ackerman, some to McCarthy, and, maybe, some to Israel).  Percentage should be in that order due to relative PVI.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
It doesn't matter how many seats
NY loses.  Peter King's district should be split into six pieces and scattered among six Democrats.  If NY loses just one (which is likely), then you create a new district in NYC/Westchester.

[ Parent ]
Touch point contiguity?
That'd be like drawing Colorado and Arizona into one district, while simultaneously drawing Utah and New Mexico into one district?  Is that the concept?

That's legal?

You could have some real fun with that.

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08


[ Parent ]
That's what I'd do
Clinton, Franklin, and Essex to Murphy.  In addition, put Eastern Saint Lawrence, Herkimer, Fulton, and Hamilton in to Tonko's district, thence southeast to Albany.  Drop quite conservative Herkimer from Arcuri's turf and grab liberal Western Saint Lawrence, slightly less conservative Jefferson, swingy Lawrence and Madison, conservative but small Lewis county, and the rest of liberal Oneida. But that's moot in some sense.  We get this district when McHugh retires and we may only have a chance to axe one.  Depending on what one defined as West and East St. Lawrence, McHugh's house would either be paired with Arcuri or Tonko.  I'd prefer Tonko, for obvious reasons.  If population growth in the north country is really slow, we might push St. Lawrence to Murphy too, but that's placing a blue county in a blueing district.  Better, I think to use it to aide Tonko and Arcuri.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Very Nice
You should attempt to do North Carolina, Virgina, or Wyoming next. ;)

Yes
NC with a strong Democratic gerrymandering and a "compromise" map for VA.

[ Parent ]
North Carolina's already gerrymandered as much as can be realistically done
Even in 2004 when George Bush won the state by 10 points, the Democrats still held 6 of 13 seats and all of them, save for NC-07, were more Democratic than the rest of the state. The new seat that North Carolina gets, from my understanding, will almost have to be ceded to the Republicans in order to protect our incumbents.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Only if we can't play with the roadkill
If we can't make the 12th less AA, we're maxed out (though we might be able to shore up Kissell, Price, and Etheridge by moving Raleigh and Chatham Co. around).  If Watt's district is no longer VRA protected (due to the recent Supreme Court ruling...it's not majority black anyway), we could hurt Coble with Greensboro and Myrick with more of blue "Real Charlotte" instead of it's insanely red suburbs.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
NC-12 is not Majority-Black
But it is still a Majority-Minority district because of the fairly large Hispanic population, and I believe (though I could be wrong) that it is still protected under the VRA.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
no more coalition districts any more,
but I think it finally increased to 51% black this year.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
I wish you would stop misstating this
The decision stripped protection from CROSSOVER districts, not coalition districts.

[ Parent ]
Meaning that NC-12
Would be protected by the VRA, right?

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
So
Per wikipedia, which is out of date since it doesn't rely on 2007 estimates for NC-12, we have a 52.8% non-white district, which is probably now higher.  Are we allowed to reduce that combined percentage to 50%.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
Probably
I doubt it would ruffle any feathers if you did so. I'm not very familiar with the case law on reducing minority voting power but still keeping above the threshold.

Georgia did something like this in 2002 without trouble.


[ Parent ]
What is a crossover district?
I've heard this term many times, but never really understood what it is.  Is it basically one of those minority influence districts (i.e. GA-12)

[ Parent ]
GA-12 is probably a good example
Take a look at Bartlett v. Strickland.

The present case involves an intermediate type of dis- trict-a so-called crossover district.  Like an influence district, a crossover district is one in which minority voters make up less than a majority of the voting-age population. But in a crossover district, the minority population, at least potentially, is large enough to elect the candidate of its choice with help from voters who are members of the majority and who cross over to support the minority's preferred candidate. 361 N. C., at 501-502, 649 S. E. 2d, at 371 (case below). This Court has referred sometimes to crossover districts as "coalitional" districts, in recognition of the necessary coalition between minority and crossover majority voters. See Georgia v. Ashcroft, 539 U. S. 461, 9 483 (2003); see also Pildes, Is Voting Rights Law Now at War with Itself? Social Science and Voting Rights in the 2000s, 80 N. C. L. Rev. 1517, 1539 (2002) (hereinafter Pildes). But that term risks confusion with coalition- district claims in which two minority groups form a coali- tion to elect the candidate of the coalition's choice.  See, e.g., Nixon v. Kent County, 76 F. 3d 1381, 1393 (CA6 1996) (en banc). We do not address that type of coalition district here. The petitioners in the present case (the state offi- cials who were the defendants in the trial court) argue that §2 requires a crossover district, in which minority voters might be able to persuade some members of the majority to cross over and join with them.

Our extremely partisan Supreme Court at work. See especially Souter's scathing dissent.


[ Parent ]
Wyoming?
A single seat district for sure.

[ Parent ]
Hehehehe.
It's an absolutely outrageous gerrymander!  We need to fix it so that Republicans lose at least three seats from it.

[ Parent ]
Your mistaken on Mississippi
The GOP actually controls the Mississippi State Senate. So your plans won't happen unfortunately. The democrats have a 27-25 numerical majority but three democrats vote with the GOP on everything and they let Lt Guv Bryant appoint all the committee heads. So unless some of these DINO's resign in the senate and mainstream democrats replace them things will pretty much stay the way they are here in Mississippi.

But the Dems control the House, clearly
My map is little more than incumbent protection (since Childers is the only vulnerable incumbent, he's the one who gets the most help). Doesn't that seem a likely/reasonable outcome?

20 years old, male, GA-12 (home), GA-10 (school); previously lived in CA-29, CA-28, CA-23, IL-06, IL-14, GA-01.

[ Parent ]
A plan that switches a couple of counties to make
the 1st slightly more Democratic could make it through.  But Barbour would likely veto anything that changes the 1st too significantly.

[ Parent ]
I thought they switched a few years ago
I recall a similar situation a few years ago, but I believe those three left the party in 2005 IIRC, making the MS senate 27R-25D. In 2007, to almost everyone's surprise, we regained the senate 28-24.

[ Parent ]
I thought so too
We picked up several Senate seats in 2007, including a black senator in a very white area in Northeast Mississippi.  

[ Parent ]
Yep
I remember that we did not have a majority until we won a few seats in 2007 which then gave us a majority.

[ Parent ]
Republicans control the MS State Senate
Technically the breakdown is 27D/25R, but supposedly some Dems backed republicans for leadership positions.

Senate President:
Phil Bryant (R)

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/Co...

Senate Pro Tempore:
Billy Hewes (R)

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/Co...


[ Parent ]
But Democrats control about half the committees
It's unclear who would have the upper hand in the next rounds of redistricting really because Democrats control about half the committees (apparently everyone in the State Senate gets to be either a chairman or vice chairman of a committee!). Would it have to be complete before 2011 or are there senate elections in 2009. If not, could we wait and see what the election results look like after 2011 before we drew up the maos.?

[ Parent ]
Compromise
It seems like that will be the case.  Childers gets a slightly better district with little change in the others.

[ Parent ]
Mississippi has a backup commission
if the legislature doesn't pass a plan by 2011.

The commission would consist of the Chief Justice (not sure which party), the AG (Dem), SoS (Rep), President Pro Tem of Senate (Rep) and Speaker of the House (Dem).

There are no State Senate elections scheduled until 2011.

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/l...


[ Parent ]
That sounds like a likely option
With the split in the legislative control and all. Who knows though if some of these hesitant Democrats in the State Senate can be convinced to vote for a Democratically friendly redistricting plan.  

[ Parent ]
They might be willing to help
a local conservative Democrat like Childers.  What they dislike is blacks and national Democrats.

Although I suspect that if Childers gets a more Democratic district, he might vote much more with the party.  I've always got the sense that Childers, especially on economic and foreign policy issues, is a real Democrat at heart (note his $2000 donation to John Kerry in 2004), but can't vote that way.


[ Parent ]
Chief Justice
Is a republican appointed by Barbour.  

[ Parent ]
i think that with moderate democrats
and making swing districts a map could be drawn, with only minor modifications to the current one, that was 27-1, leaving only McHugh and even his district would go Democratic when he finally retired.

I'm worried on your MS-02, I think you seriously overstated how Democratic it would be now and the black caucus would never settle for something like that. You are underestimating, in my opinion, both the size of DeSoto and Tate county, (a little over 200,000 I believe), but yes, a solid map. I'm gonna do my own low tech New York map soon, mostly its just going to be my thought process and conjecture however, and thank you for the hat tip, I appreciate the thought. It does look kind of like my map in that it makes the first look like an alligator and the 2nd a little like a frog.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus


Given the size of DeSoto and Tate
What would the new percentage of AA's be, do you think?  We have 12 percentage points to move around (I actually hate thinking of actual people that way).

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
the black caucus wouldn't let democrats move the percentage
all the way down to 51%.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
New York
New York 25 to 28

A side shuffle needs to be done from 25-28-27-26

Steuben needs to be shifted from 28[new] to 25, with compensating population shifts 28-27-26, adding Chatauqua back to new 26, where it presently is.  This will add a county barely going for Obana by 349 votes to the Democratic districts, and subracting Steuben, [almost 7000 votes for mccain] to the republican 25.  The weakest Democratic district would thus be strengthende

Joe Cooper


New York again
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

Steuben, according to the above, is the only NY county giving McCain a margin of over 5000 votes.

Joe Cooper


[ Parent ]

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