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Exciting News for the Swing State Project

by: DavidNYC

Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 10:42 PM EST


I have some exciting news about the future of the Swing State Project that I'm very pleased to share with our community here. As many of you know, I got my start blogging at Daily Kos, and I still serve as a front-page contributing editor there. SSP has always had a close relationship with "the mothership," with a lot of cross-pollination of users and content. So I'm thrilled to announce that SSP will soon get "beamed up" to DK - that is to say, the entire site will soon have a new home at Daily Kos, likely to be named "Daily Kos Elections," with a new URL as well. (The old address will re-direct there.)

In practical, day-to-day terms, I can assure you that not much will change. It will still be the same great community - and you'll still be seeing the same great content - that you've grown accustomed to. Our hallmark qualities will remain exactly the same: We will stay laser-focused on the electoral horserace, and we'll steer clear of policy debates, just as ever before. I recognize that the communities at DK and SSP operate differently, but DK Elections will be its own sub-site, and we'll retain our distinctive flavor. The comment boards will be friendly, on-topic, and free of personal attacks, just as they are now.

For the moment, we're staying put. In a week, Daily Kos will undertake a major transition to a new software platform (which you can play with here). As you might imagine, the DK tech team has their hands full, so we won't get ported over for a little while after that. (We'll make sure our archives make the jump, too.) In the meantime, if you don't have one already, I encourage you to create an account at the actual Daily Kos site (not the beta site linked to just above) so that you can hit the ground running when SSP makes its move.

One thing that will change is that I will be working for Daily Kos full-time, which will allow us to amp up our coverage. The rest of the crew will be staying on board - James, Crisitunity, and Jeff - and will continue to contribute as well. DK's current horserace specialists, Arjun Jaikumar and Steve Singiser, will also join the squad. We'll expand out our coverage a bit to include presidential primary polls - I think the GOP primary is just too fun not to cover. And when the time is right, we'll also start looking at presidential polling - but, again, we're going to stay an issue-free zone.

My official title at DK will be "Political Director," and in addition to running DK Elections, my responsibilities will include, among other things, managing our polling operations and our Orange to Blue fundraising list on ActBlue. I look forward to getting your input in both areas - for instance, I definitely plan to do some "Where should we poll?" site polls, just like Tom Jensen does now over at PPP. (As you may know, Public Policy Polling is DK's pollster, and we'll continue to work with them.)

I do have one request to make of the community: Stick with us. Give it a shot - there will be some changes, but nothing too dramatic. And help us out. We'll need you over at the new site. While, as I said, we'll have our own sub-site, it'll be fairly easy for other Daily Kos users who aren't familiar with the SSP ethos to migrate over to DK Elections - and we'll need you, all the longtime, experienced, and chill SSP users, to take newcomers by the hand and explain how things work. The mods will still be there in comments to regulate as needed, but it's a big world out there, I will be grateful beyond words for your patience and assistance in helping new people adjust. As I've said many a time, this community is what makes me keep coming back every day, and regardless of what our web address is, or whether our color scheme is puke green or in-your-face orange, I really hope we can all stay together.

And not like I really need to say this, but if you have any questions, please fire away in comments!

UPDATE: Thank you for all the support in the comments. I also understand the reservations that have been expressed by many of you. I share some of those concerns myself, but I want to re-iterate: We're going to do everything we can to preserve the SSP community, rules, ethos, and comment moderation policy. And we aren't going to be swallowed up by Daily Kos - we'll be our own sub-site, which you'll probably access by going to http://elections.dailykos.com. That address will feature only horserace content posted by the SSP writers (plus Arjun and Steve) - in other words, it'll look almost exactly like what the site looks like right now. So I really urge you to give us a shot.

UPDATE 2: I'd like to encourage everyone to read this comment from Susan Gardner, the executive editor at Daily Kos, about what we can expect as we make the transition.
DavidNYC :: Exciting News for the Swing State Project
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Exciting News for the Swing State Project | 446 comments
wow.....

Didn't see this coming.


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!
This is a big and exciting change,
though time will have to tell whether it is for the better. No doubt it takes a lot of time, commitment, and probably money to keep SSP going as its own concern. So to the extent this change relieves that, it will be for the better.

I have two questions, one technical and the other substantive:

1) How are you planning to merge/consolidate (or similarly dispose of) SSP and Dkos user IDs? I am here what I am there, but here I am 1337. ([Seriously, I'm not kidding swingstateproject.com/userDiary/comments.do?personId=1337]).

2) are you planning to keep the special comment and discussion rules for the move? Dkos tends to be a free-for-all. And while that's fine there, I would really prefer that we not implement it here.

 

Oops,
my link didn't work. Here I am.
[ Parent ]
To answer your questions
1) Folks will have to create new accounts at DK, which is why I encourage people who don't already have accounts do so. We'll also eventually port over the archives, but those will likely be in the form of "flat" files with no ability to comment further.

2) Yes, we definitely want to preserve the comment and discussion rules, which is why I really hope all of the longtime users here will make the switch with us. We'll have our own sub-site, but folks drifting over from the rest of Daily Kos will need some hand-holding as they get adjusted to our way of doing things.

[ Parent ]
I've
actually never had a kos account (I've lurked plenty) so this isn't for me but for users who have gotten banned from there, I've heard a few SSPers say they have before, will they be able to join?

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
If this is a concern for anyone
Please email me - davidnyc [at] swingstateproject [dot] com.
[ Parent ]
Thanks Dave
I think inevitably we will lose some of what makes this community so good. It's not that all of the knowledgeable people will go away, but rather that they will likely be drowned out by others.

SSP is really self-selective right now. You have to care about things that almost nobody else cares about to comment here. Where else on the web are you going to find a debate about the meaning of "dummymander" or the intricacies of the VRA?

That said, I think I have a pretty good idea of why you're doing this, and I can't fault you for it.  

[ Parent ]
They are great news for me :) I like the change

A closer relation between DailyKos and SSP was one of my wishes as user of both, with the same nickname. I think both can win with the change. Dailykos need to talk about this type of issues and SSP need to expand his contents.

I would like to keep my diaries here, and in Dailykos, and have access to both since the same account.

Surely the new SSP will be better still for me :)

[ Parent ]
there are a number of us who are sorta refugees from DK
because of the hostility we've found there towards "more" as opposed to "better" Ds.

I just hope that the pragmatic tenor of this community does not change (though I suspect it's inevitable).

I am with you on this
I intentionally avoid the DK posts beyond the front page stuff. I don't read the comments, and I find the vast majority of the posters/posts there to be little more than mindless drivel. I am not thrilled about this, not am I exceedingly thrilled with adding presidential posts. The addition of more (read: less informed) posters I feel will dilute the dialog that we all love here at SSP. I will give it a shot, but if it just devolves into everything else I have ever read at DK or HuffPo, I will probably be out shortly.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
Give us a shot.
I hope you stick with us. Things will no doubt change, but we'll strive to keep the comments section civil and on-point.

The major, major plus that no one has really mentioned so far is that DavidNYC is becoming a full-time blogger. As a longtime fan of David's work, I'm beyond thrilled to see him unleashed. (Until now, David has either had the burdens of law school or being a lawyer to constrain his output.)

[ Parent ]
As I said, I will wait and see
But as you can surely understand, and can read by other users' comments, this is going to be met with a lukewarm reception at best among the rank and file here.

As far as David goes, I am really happy for him. This is a huge step up for him in the world in internet journalism, and he will make a fine internet political analyst at Daily Kos, just as he has done here. His readership will certainly increase dramatically, and no one here would argue that he deserves it. For that aspect of this, I am very happy for the man, even though we have not met.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
I understand.
But the fact of the matter is that we've really taken SSP as far as it can go under the current arrangement. Letting David write full time, as well as adding Arjun and Steve, will simply let us write more stuff and gain more eyeballs. It's pretty hard to run this blog with just four (very) part-time hands on deck. It's, quite simply, an offer that we couldn't refuse.
[ Parent ]
When mega millions was over $300 million
and I did my day dreaming of that money, I definitely earmarked a million for SSP.  Now it'll be Kos money!
[ Parent ]
Hah wow
That is awesome! This might just be an all-time great SSP comment. :)
[ Parent ]
wow

:)
[ Parent ]
My
quote of the week!  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
That is truly the greatest part
in my opinion; the sheer increase in amount of resources.

But please please please make it somewhat quarantined by welcoming our more rightish readers and keeping it issue-free/having separate bannination powers for this section (when some people inevitably get too issues-oriented).

Mood: Cautious optimism.

überliberal Democrat, male, OH-12 (college), NJ-09 ("home"), Mets, Jets

[ Parent ]
This is critical
If you have the power to ban users from your groupblog, but not the whole site, then you will have all the power you need to keep the conversation focused and on point the way you always have here.  

If you don't have that power, it will be very hard not to be quickly overwhelmed.  Screaming "but we're different here!!" will only get you so far if you have no power to actually enforce that difference.

And all the other group blogs would actually benefit from this power as well.  Otherwise all discussion is liable to converge toward Standardized DK Ideology over time.  

It's also possible that DK will itself rediversify.  But the power to ban users  from individual groupblogs will still be useful.   The flame wars between groupblogs are all too easy to see coming.

Any word on this?  

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08

[ Parent ]
This is a good question
My understanding is that, unfortunately, we won't have the ability to ban people from DKE without banning them from the entire site due to technical limitations within the DK4 platform. My hope is that we can encourage offtopic commenters to migrate to other wings of the site (and DK4 really should have something for everyone in this regard), and the most egregious offenders can of course be dealt with. I agree, this is concerning, but it'll also be a key test of the community-building function of the DK4 platform. If the goal is to be able to turn DK into the Blogspot of the progressive blogosphere, with each group blog being able to create its own unique community identity, and our community isn't able to function the way we want it to... well, perhaps some adjustments will need to be made.
[ Parent ]
One of the greatest things in the world is being paid to do what you are passionate about...
AND what you are good at.  

The synergy of Kos and this site is natural, good for the hard workers behind this site, and I dare say great for the country.

The Packers, Jane Harman, an influx of capital and visitors to SSP, what next?  DiFi retires?  It's not even my birthday, what a great 24 hours.

[ Parent ]
Thank you, Tommy!
I really appreciate it.
[ Parent ]
I agree

They are very good news.

Since this site is a "Kos Alumni" it is logical both sites have closer relation.

[ Parent ]
I'm
not going to lie I am not happy about this. If we had the chance to vote I would be firmly in the no column. But I recognize it is an amazing opportunity for David and the guys. This could put them on the map. I will stick around as long as I can and hopefully it won't change too much. Gosh I hope not as I would not last a day in normal daily kos, I defend blue dogs and all the things they hate. I really don't like getting called a troll. But I will try hard and if it doesn't change too drastically I'll stick around.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
I would
think a very blunt enforcement of the rules to keep the tone different will end up separating those who want to talk about policy and those who want to talk about elections. After all, how freaking hard is it for someone like me, who can have fairly strong opinions about a lot of things, to keep his big mouth shut until I am back on the main page of Daily Kos? Things can get a little testy here, but unless we are dealing with trolls, I don't think it's ever become so bad that they've had to do a huge smack down of a lot of users.

In fact, I'll be an optimist and say that there are a lot of people there who would love to talk about elections without talking about the best policies--more people, in fact, than those who would try to piss in the punch bowl just to break up the party. Combine those guys with our guys and we've got ourselves an even stronger community.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Wow
Do we have to create new accounts at Daily Kos? Will your policy of banning still stand if users still get too involved, ie getting policy and non horse race stuff and will these policies be made well know? Congrats.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
To answer your questions
Yes, please create a new account at DK if you don't have one there already.

And we will also continue to moderate the discussions as we always have. We love the community here, and we want to do everything we can to keep it the same.

[ Parent ]
That's good
 Keeping the similar community but also becoming more high profile and earning a great position works for all of us!  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  

[ Parent ]
Good
to hear, thanks.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
And thanks!
I know you and a number of other longtime users here have some mixed feelings about this move. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have any myself. But as James points out, we've hit our absolute limits - and in fact, even gone beyond them - running this site on a purely volunteer basis. This is going to be a big change for our ability to cover things, and I think the already-high quality you see around here is only going to increase.
[ Parent ]
Its
fully understandable. Hey now that you have a bit more coy any chance you can pay a little extra for some IN polls through PPP? I had to try.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
Indiana is a no-go
The state bans robo calls (unles a live caller gets permission first) - groups have even gone to court over this and lost. So PPP can't really poll there. The Daily Kos national poll does test the requisite handful of Indiana residents, but it adds a shocking amount to the overall cost of each poll. So a full-blown live-caller poll of IN is probably out of the question.
[ Parent ]
Does this mean KosKids are going to start commenting?
People who can't name 90+ US Senators in 10 minutes?

:-(

26, Male, Democrat, TX-26

Quiz
http://www.sporcle.com/games/s...

That should be a no-cheating prerequisite for anyone wishing to post here at the new version of SSP. 75 and up only!

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
Ok, that was embarrassing.
I got like 78, but there were a few elected in 2006-2010 where I blogged the races repeatedly and could remember specific details about who they were but could not for the life of me remember their names. Sat there for seriously 30 seconds going "Missouri...Claire...won in 2006..." before coming up with McCaskill. Never got Kay Hagan -- remembered Kay, remembered the rocking chair ad, couldn't remember Hagan. Never got Blumenthal after running mentally over the fact that he'd been AG, the Vietnam stuff, and Linda McMahon and the dead wrestlers.
[ Parent ]
My problem is my brain kept on remembering the old Senators...
Kennedy, Dodd, Byrd, Lincoln, Brownback.  I know the new guys but in the stress of the moment my brain kept on wanting to spit out the old names.

NY-13, Democrat. Blog @ http://infinitefunction.wordpr...
[ Parent ]
85/100
I feel embarrassed about the ones I missed.

* Michael Bennet--I was stuck on "Mark" something, after getting Udall.
* Jerry Moran--forgot to pay attention to the race.
* Mark Kirk--got stuck on Mark Pera for some reason.
* Dan Coats--I remembered it was that dull establishment dude.
* Mike Johanns--forgot about him.
* Roger Wicker--remembered he beat Musgrove, forgot his name.
* Richard Burr and Kay Hagan--in an embarrassing move, I forgot both of them.
* Ron Wyden and Jeff Merkley--for some reason, I couldn't get past Steve Novick in my head.
* Bob Casey, Jr.--didn't get to him.
* Sheldon Whitehouse and Jack Reed--didn't get to them.
* John Cornyn--for some reason, was hung up on Jon Kyl.
* Mike Enzi--for some reason, was hung up on Mike Crapo and Craig Thomas.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Mike Johanns - most forgetable senator
Only 25.5% of quiz takers remembered him.

28, Unenrolled, MA-08
[ Parent ]
I got him, actually.
I am embarrassed to say that I missed Cantwell though. I knew it was a woman in that slot, but I couldn't come up with her name. I got 93 last night when I posted the link. Oddly enough, the obscure ones I mostly got, but I missed Toomey. Woops!

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
Ha! I Guess David Can't Fire Me.... :)
Got 100, with about a minute to spare. Had 99 for the longest time, and couldn't freaking remember Mike Johanns. Guess that says something about his significance...

"You share your young with the wolves of the nation, there's nothing left til you pray for salvation."

--Black Rebel Motorcycle Club

"American X"
[ Parent ]
I don't really get this.
I got 99, but to the end I couldn't recall, of all people... freaking Al Franken. I felt so incredibly foolish when I googled it after the 10 minutes were over.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)
[ Parent ]
I got up to 95 at four minutes and then I couldn't remember the rest...
Stupid Wicker, Johanns, Hagan, Alexander, and Barrasso...

That last one really bugs me because I remember just how annoyed I was during the HCR debate when the Republicans kept referring to him by Dr. Barrasso...

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!

[ Parent ]
I was sure I'd get all 100 but I blanked on the last three
I was stymied by three Republican backbenchers -- Risch, Johanns, and Wicker.  I remember all three elections and their opponents: Rex Rammell (who could forget a name like that!), Scott Kleeb, Ronnie Musgrove, and some hapless Idaho Dem.  I remember the MS-01 special, although actually I guess that was triggered by Pickering and not Wicker.  I even knew that Risch had five letters in his name and was Lt Gov.  But I was nowhere close to their actual names.

A House one would be super interesting, especially if it were the 111th Congress.  I have refused to learn most of the freshmen of the 112th.  Except Chip Cravaack, whose name is pure awesome.  

Last time I tried to do the House I was probably a quarter drunk, and I got about 300 of them.  There's a lot of completely anonymous GOP reps.  I remember how pissed I was to learn that there was a guy named Gresham Barrett in Congress.  

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08

[ Parent ]
You're lucky, you're from Cali.
That gets you a 20-point bonus in the House right there, because, really, who out of Cali knows all of the Bay-area and LA backbenchers? Same for some of the Massachusetts Reps, though we at SSP start to learn more about them because of redistricting. But until a couple of months ago I'd never heard of Rep. Olver, and he's there since the 1970's.

As for the hapless Idaho Dem, I think his name was LaRocco. Not a bad guy actually, and quite young.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

[ Parent ]
Here's one for Republican house members
http://www.sporcle.com/games/a...

(111th congress, missing Tiberi and a few other errata I think)

The hapless Idaho Dem was Larry LaRocco.  I remembered how much SenateGuru talked him up, as how there were like ten or was it twenty reasons that he could beat Risch, except that never materialized.  It was also when I gradually realized that SG was an advocate more than an analyst.

The MS-01 special was due to Wicker; Pickering was from the third, which was then picked up by Gregg Harper IIRC.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Sporcle is awesome
It is quite easy to lose a substantial amount of time on it. Although some of them are absurd (list the area codes of the entire united states, for instance). Although I do have to say that the long version of "list of popes" is unrealistic with the 15 minutes they give you. I had wikipedia open, and typed as fast as i could read, and I couldn't do them all cheating that way!

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
Risch, Lee, Alexander
missed three republicans as well.

I completely forgot about Risch, even after reading his name, it hardly did ring a bell. Also forgot that guy who beat Bob Bennett and for some reason couldn't remember Lamar Alexander, all I could come up with was Bill Frist  

[ Parent ]
I like this one, though I'm bad at it.
I'm good at history, but not THAT good, and I'm only started paying attention to US internal politics (I'm German) in 2008, so that I'm not that comfortable with Senators who have retired in the 1990's or before.

But-- still, this quiz is good, I got 26/50. I bet that'll place me close to the bottom here.

http://www.sporcle.com/games/s...

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

[ Parent ]
I managed 49/50
But I cheated a little. Managed to get up to about 40/50, then couldn't answer any more... but I realized there was one from each state, so I just eliminated each of the states that I hadn't used as an answer yet. Would have managed 50, but I forgot about Maryland. (If anyone here is a Marylander, too bad. Indiana's better!)  

Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09
[ Parent ]
36 and failed to spell rhode island correct four times
got 36 and some really in the last seconds. It's fun though, I did pretty well with the 20th century people but rather poorly with the 19th century senators.
I really think they should teach more American history in German schools ;-)
[ Parent ]
got it with 28 seconds left
It took me about half the time to figure out that the state that was missing was Nevada. I also didn't get Cummins, Fong, and the guy from Maryland the first time around.

41, Ind, CA-05
[ Parent ]
all
got 3:24 left. but some guess and check

18, Dem, CA-14 (home) CA-09 (college, next year). social libertarian, economic liberal, fiscal conservative.   Everybody should put age and CD here. :)
[ Parent ]
I was not the worst at this
 I got 28/50. I do not know political history as well as I should. I didnt really start following politics until 2005 so I missed many of these Senators.  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  

[ Parent ]
Same here.
32/50.  Mostly I know the recent ones, and the ones that have been randomly mentioned in other contexts, such as the guy from Idaho (who was mentioned because he's the last Dem Senator from Idaho, mentioned on various blog posts about Idaho politics).

I similarly don't know political history but know recent politics a bit too well.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Zombie Frank Church!!


21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/
[ Parent ]
I got 37 of 50, but I didn't do any guessing.
It was fun seeing which states had only losers to offer though.  More precisely: given that each state was going to get only one senator in the quiz, it was fun seeing which senator some states got stuck with.

Oregon got stuck with Bob Packwood.  New Mexico had no one more interesting than Pete Domenici.  North Carolina had the odious Jesse Helms.  Etc.  

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08

[ Parent ]
On the honor system, only got 88
Couldn't remember Boozman, Reed, Lee (wasn't sure who won that primary), Inhofe, anyone from Kansas, and basically most of the Republican backbenchers lol.
[ Parent ]
99/100
Only one I couldn't think of was Saxby Chambliss.

The Crolian Progressive: as great an adventure as ever I heard of...
[ Parent ]
95/100
 Give this to me four years ago and I would have gotten 100. It wouldnt accept Kay Bailey Hutchinson, John Rockefeller and I did not know the Utah Senator's name (the new guy, I know Orrin Hatch.) I think it's Lee something but I dont know.

I kept misspelling Mike Johanns, I thought it was Johannes but I got it with 10 seconds left. I should know all of them though.  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  

[ Parent ]
No 'n' in Hutchison
Back before Mark Pryor got elected in Arkansas it always amused me that there was a Sen. Hutchison and a Sen. Hutchinson, so that's how I always remember that. :)

23, male, Democrat, IA-02 (previously CA-26, PA-06, CA-06)
[ Parent ]
Well, i had no difficulties with Senators
(House is different - i am reasonably sure i know all of them, but it's so easy, say, "to place" congressman from CA-33 into CA-34...), but English is a second language for me, and though it seems to be reasonably good (i don;t remember big complains about it directed at me) - i still have some difficulties in spelling difficult names...)))
[ Parent ]
hahahahahaha
Will we get all the Dkos4 features for comments so I could "like" the hell out of Trowman's?  (I know they don't call it "like", I just never read all the front-page stuff and never bother to comment because I don't have time and the number of them is overwhelming.)
[ Parent ]
What about the conservatives???
The Kos people are um not always civil when it comes to people to the right of Dennis Kucinich.  Not sure how I feel about this move...sigh...
Now it all makes sense
No wonder the mods approached GOPVOTER about setting up Red Racing Horses.
[ Parent ]
Holy crap!
I didn't know about that part.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!
[ Parent ]
Is that website up?
n/t
[ Parent ]
Link
[ Parent ]
It does make sense now
I haven't visited the site, but I may need to become a guest of theirs more frequently (and create an account) if things go awry

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
award for most pessimistic comment

[ Parent ]
Nah
[ Parent ]
Well, my first thought after i read it. was
"if anything goes bad - i can post on RRH")))))
[ Parent ]
The two developments
Are entirely unrelated. I approached GOPVoter because I thought it would be a good idea for conservatives interested in horserace politics to have a home of their own. While many conservatives here have been nothing but respectful, it was growing increasingly difficult to moderate those who were not - and their numbers were increasing. Now they have a place to play without having to worry about running afoul of our rules - and we're less likely to deal with people who would be prone to cause problems here.
[ Parent ]
I'm
worried for them but more importantly people like myself who defend people that are not as far to the left. That's really not kosher on kos.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
In defense of many users of DailyKos

(I write too in DailyKos)

I must tell I have not troubles cause of defend people what is not in the left of the democratic party, like some blue dogs. Sometimes I defend some Blue Dog.

I find very good people in DailyKos.

[ Parent ]
Happy
For you, but the addition of many typical DKos commenters will hurt the quality, guaranteed. Hope to be proven wrong.

22, Male, Conservative Republican, anti-teabag, NY-8
Urgh

I consider this a 100% positive development......
I appreciate David's comment above acknowledging that Republican snark was on the rise at SSP, and that RRH partly is meant to be an antidote to that.  To put it frankly, moving to a DKos platform is a further antidote, even though I know that's not part of the plan for this move.

I'm not too worried about more "election-challenged" commenters coming on to the scene.  If it's a separate web page of its own, DK/Elections will maintain a separate identity and culture.  Having to actually click to a different page to read content and to post comments ensures that.

Congrats to David in particular for getting to follow his passion full-time.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
Thanks
I really appreciate it.
[ Parent ]
I guess we can no longer want Jon Tester to win...

In case this isn't snark
There is no "party line" at Daily Kos. It doesn't matter what Markos's views (or any other front-page writer's views) on any particular race are. Give Markos some credit: he worked for Wes Clark, yet Daily Kos became the main hub for online Howard Dean supporters. He not only didn't reject that, but embraced it.
[ Parent ]
Register an anonymous account
and voice your support for Bobby Bright or Bart Stupak there-great candidates, in my opinion. See how many HR's you can collect in 5 minutes.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)
[ Parent ]
A lot. I tried that because i REALLY was both for Stupak and Bright..
After some insults that led to me being effectively banned (can read, but not write there, though technocally i sill have account)
[ Parent ]
I know. I think a huge problem is that they just
don't know as much as we do. Looking at Bright's voting record alone without looking at the district he's in would not make me like him. And even with the district- I didn't like Parker Griffith and was glad when he jumped ship. But when you know that he was a VERY popular Montgomery mayor and was courted by both parties to run for Congress in 2008, could have cruised as a Republican and chose to run as a Democrat because he BELIEVED in the party- that's what makes me really respect him as a fellow Democrat, just one with different values, which I'm fine with. Most people on Kos don't know his history or his district, and therefore look only on his voting record

And as for Stupak, I don't like him on the abortion issue, but that's okay, most politicians have an issue I disagree with them on. Most Kossacks don't know that he is pretty liberal on most other issues in a quite red district.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

[ Parent ]
Exactly
Speaking with some people on Daily Kos i felt as if they never leave their liberal enclaves and simply can't imagine, that very large part of the country lives quite differently and has very different set of values. That lot of people are pro-life, many  are opposed not only to gay marriages, but even to civil unions, that lot of people look very suspicious on the latest health care reform, and not because it's "insufficirntly liberal", and so on. For them everything is very simple: Stupak must be primaried because he is anti-abortion, Feinstein - because she is "insufficiently liberal for California" (personally i am sure that if we consider all California and Californians - she is exactly right fit - generally, but not very liberal), and so on..

So i am taking "wait and see approach" to this new idea: of course i will try , but i am somewhat skeptical.. Even here i read a questions like "is it allowable on this site to root for Republicans?". For me it's not a question at all: if site allows Independents and even Republicans to be members - it automatically allows it's members to root for non-Democrats. Independents (and even more - Republicans) are not obliged to root for all Democratic candidates. I fear - there will be problems with that on new site...

[ Parent ]
Most Kossacks dont know about Stupak's full record
because in the context of him causing major head aches and creating headlines, it didn't matter.

Yeah, the more I read the comments in this thread, the more excited I am to move to Dailykos.  I've always considered this blog a netroots one and now I think it solidifies its reputation as that while it'll maintain intelligent discourse.

[ Parent ]
It would be excellent, but, frankly, i don't believe in that
I know too many Kossacks too well))))
[ Parent ]
I have not trouble defeinding candidates like Tester

This is my experience.
[ Parent ]
Sounds promising
I'm really excited for this, it sounds like a great opportunity to expand SSP's readership while attracting new users.

As a sidenote, I'm a longtime lurker though I've never posted much.  I'm actually applying for funding right now to hopefully do some research that would be of interest to the community - I'll be really excited to introduce it further once my plans are more concrete.

Male, 19, VT-AL (home), CT-03 (college)

Thanks!
Really appreciate the support! And good luck with your funding applications.
[ Parent ]
The Kos people may need etiquette lessons
Please consider doing some of this in the first weeks. SSP is one of my three favorite blogs (with PPP and Political Wire.  I hope the transition goes well
I'm sure we will need to outline community standards
in some kind of FAQ or Community Guidelines post. Thanks for the kind words.
[ Parent ]
Is this necessary?
Speaking as a conservative Republican who has lurked on this site and occassionally commented for years, I like SSP the way it is. I read this every day for the coverage of down-ballot races.

I don't mind the left-wing tone of this website (the members have always been nice to me when I did post), but those DailyKos people go too far. They are so militant, ideological, and angry about everything.

Congrats to SSP for taking a step that will get it more traffic and more exposure, I guess, but this is disappointing to me. Conservatives aren't welcome on DailyKos, so I guess I won't be either. This whole move is emblematic of how our country's media culture is becoming hyper-partisan and hyper-ideological.

I feel you...
It's fun to have conservatives around..especially on election nights.  Makes things more interesting and less one sided.  Maybe try redracinghorses, the conservative version of this.  As a lib, haven't posted there yet but it seemed a lot like this site.  
[ Parent ]
Huffington Post/Pollster
Same thing. If the comments there are anything to go by since that change this could be worse than I first thought. Time will tell. I'm not going anywhere just yet.
[ Parent ]
Except to Daily Kos apparently

[ Parent ]
Yeah, Pollster basically just went away
Their content and organization of polling is just a shadow of what it used to be.  
[ Parent ]
Puffington Post.
From my experience (and I'm not a big blog person besides this site and Political Wire and a few others), the Daily Kos commenters can be a little intolerant of other people's beliefs, but tend to be at least somewhat coherent and informed (even if their knowledge can be one-way, inference wise), but the average Huffington Post commenter is either a liberal/conservative troll or someone who stumbles across the serious political content after coming to the site through the Kim Kardashian/Snooki stories. I don't know what the Pollster.com folks (or AOL) were/are thinking...

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)
[ Parent ]
Simply put
Running a blog is hard, often thankless, and financially dubious work. DailyKos is giving DavidNYC the chance to blog full-time -- in many ways that's a dream job. How could he pass that chance up?
[ Parent ]
No doubt
But you get while people are disappointed surely?
[ Parent ]
Of course.
In fact, I take it as a compliment, and am truly humbled that people care so much about what we've built here over the past seven and a half years (which is several lifetimes in blog years, really) -- nearly five of which I've been a part of as editor.

It'll be different. But I'm pretty confident that we'll be able to achieve much, much more.

[ Parent ]
It
is an amazing opportunity. This could be the start of many amazing things for him and you for that matter. I apologize if I have sounded too self centered on the matter.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
Same here
 Being the Daily Kos political director is a really high position. Expect national television interviews soon! Also, after seven years of hard work, it is a really big honor!

I may miss a few things about the old swing state but I am really happy for David and the whole blog crew!

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  

[ Parent ]
Thanks so much!
Really appreciate the kind words and support.
[ Parent ]
No apology necessary
Just trying to make sure people understand where we're coming from!
[ Parent ]
From the DK FAQ
Link:

The majority of people posting here fall on the liberal side of the US political spectrum, however people of conservative views are welcome to come and debate. If you are polite, you will be treated politely.

[ Parent ]
Do you actually READ DailyKos comment sections?
It doesn't really sound like it, because Kossacks have started ignoring the FAQ about the day it was written, except for maybe the three-paragraph rule.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)
[ Parent ]
I would encourage you
To read (or re-read) my post in full, and also my many comments in this thread, in which I discuss how SSP will fit into DK, particularly regarding us operating as a sub-site and what we will do to maintain our community. I also encourage you to read Susan Gardner's comment below. Thanks.
[ Parent ]
I saw that comment. But being a regular poster
on DailyKos for non-election stuff, I doubt that the community will be so easily regulated. It's a sub-site, but unless I really misunderstood something, Kossacks can post there with their accounts and can't be banned for just the sub-site (or can they and I just missed it?).

Despite the moderation of comments, I don't see how you can operate a sub-site within a site where the majority of commenters on the main site would probably like to hide-rate all of us and where lots of us probably think that the main site has a majority of dumb and unrealistic commenters.

This could work out if SSP and DKos were friendly (on a community-to-community level, not mods-to-mods), but I don't really see us being friends.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

[ Parent ]
I'm a friend and more

I'm member of both communities, without troubles.

In DailyKos they are too a lot of good people what deserve good words.

[ Parent ]
Well - agree and disagree at the same time
yes, there are lot of good people on DK. But there are considerable number of those, whom i will not call "good", as well. And as old Russian saying goes: "small ball of tar spoils big keg of honey". On DK there is much more then "small ball of tar"....)))
[ Parent ]
I have not doubt

Knowing the site.
[ Parent ]
This is my main problem with the move
lots of us probably think that the main site has a majority of dumb and unrealistic commenters.

Of course, I congratulate David and the rest of the mods here for this great advance to their careers as bloggers!

But my problems are really two-fold:

(1) There are a lot of people at DailyKos who are not only ignorant and profoundly out of touch with reality in regard to politics (e.g., thinking that a down-the-line liberal could have won Stupak's district).
(2) If the remaining conservative and independent voices are lost, this site will become much more of an echo chamber.

I am a member of DailyKos (under the moniker of MichaelNY, as Pan was taken) and do participate there and find the site valuable in some ways, but I am quite skeptical that realistic appraisal of elections and campaigns in discussion threads can take hold there. You mods have your work cut out for you because a lot of what you - and we - post here would be attacked and possibly even troll-rated by ignorant partisans who think the entire country would vote for someone like Bernie Sanders if they only had the chance. I know. I've had discussions with such people. Though to be fair, I've seldom been troll-rated.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  

[ Parent ]
Re: "This whole move is emblematic of how our country's media culture is becoming hyper-partisan and hyper-ideological."
Fair point, but I think it's actually more illustrative of another trend in the blogosphere: increasing concentration. We've gone from letting a thousand flowers bloom to an increasingly tiered system.

First, the best and most popular bloggers were snapped up by the various political magazines and think tanks going online. They subsequently seemed to start mostly talking amongst themselves, with bloggers who weren't similarly credentialed finding it hard to get any hearing.

Secondly, there was the structural concentration of what would have been individual blogs earlier as user diaries etc within much larger website communities - like Kos, TPM etc.

Then, the more prestigious / successful blogs started to get bought up and integrated in bigger media: Pollster -> HuPo, 538 -> NYT etc. In turn, some of the larger online magazines and communities get bought up by major companies, as now happened with HuPo -> AOL.

It's really easy to understand why individual bloggers and site owners take part in this concentration - running a blog is thankless, hard word and doesn't pay, and who wouldn't rather do the thing they love doing for some proper pay, with job security etc? You can't blame them. But in a way it has seemed like ... hmm ... I was going to say, the structures and institutions of the old media landscape reasserting themselves on what, for a decade or so, had been a more grassroots, tierless free-for-all. But maybe it's a more general phenomenon: that of capitalist structures reasserting themselves over often volunteerism- and idealism-driven new media production.

Um - I'm not calling any of the SSP people sell-outs. :-D I went on more of a general digression, because seeing it as increasing polarization as InRepublican suggested, I think, masks the more structural trend of media concentration of various kinds.

OK, sorry, end of OT digression. (And that just after I inquired whether the new SSP will still be able to ban people for derailing!)

38, Male, SP, NL / LMP, HU

[ Parent ]
It can't be any other way......
If the internet and political blogs all came into being a decade earlier, I could very well have globbed on to the scene with a site like SSP, I've always been obsessive enough about campaigns and elections to do so.

But by the time DailyKos and SSP and other popular sites were taking off, I was meeting my wife, getting engaged and then married, having a daughter and then a son, selling a house and buying another in the suburbs.  And of course my wife and I both are full-time working professionals.  For those who aren't married with kids and also working, this life, the ranks of which most Americans join at some point, simply doesn't allow the time commitment of serious blogging.  You can pursue it only if you're among the lucky few who can make a living off it.

These most successful of political blogs are truly entrepreneurial enterprises, and as such they are subject to the same realities of running any kind of business.  David and others can't do this indefinitely without being given better resources.

It's just part of life.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
This is well said.
It's hard to imagine doing SSP on an all-volunteer basis in perpetuity. Life eventually forces something to give when it comes to an activity like this, but fortunately, I think this will only make the quality of the output here better.
[ Parent ]
Misunderstood
Oh, as I think I wrote - but I'm obviously not making myself clear enough on these pages - my remark wasn't so much specifically about this case of SSP - and moreover, I totally understand the benefit and necessity of the move for the SSP bloggers. Blogging is hard and often thankless work, and expensive to boot.

I was merely responding to the suggestion that the move is illustrative of a larger tendency towards political polarization, and suggested that instead, it's more indicative of a larger tendency towards centralisation and clusterisation. I don't think there is much argument over those tendencies having taken place this last five to ten years, right?

38, Male, SP, NL / LMP, HU

[ Parent ]
I don't think my point was clear
Tried again in response to James, below.

38, Male, SP, NL / LMP, HU
[ Parent ]
That's true about increased media concentration
The finances of running a website like SSP just aren't sustainable in the long-run. There's no question that it makes more sense financially to integrate with some place like DailyKos. And I certainly don't begrudge DavidNYC for wanting a paycheck for all the work he puts into this website (congrats btw). It sounds like a dream job, frankly. Hyper-ideological media is much easier to monetize than balanced coverage, for a variety of reasons.

But journalists are always talking about how they serve a function that transcends market economics, which in some sense is true. It's just depressing that the invisible hand of the market is compelling SSP to move to a place that will negate its ability to offer fair coverage or provide a forum for people of both parties.

This trend has become pretty evident in cable news over the 2000s and has already come full circle in talk radio over the 90s. If it keeps happening, then this country will get even weaker and more divided than it already is.

[ Parent ]
Congratulations, and an all around good move for all concerned
Hopefully the full-time attention will really benefit here, and also very great news that the mega-clusterbomb of Republican primaries will not be off limits here (there).

Financially it seems like a slam dunk positive for all involved.  I'm sure some of the concern trolls won't like it, but it just gives them something else to be concerned about...

Is This Change Good?
 I am not too sure. I like that this blog is becoming more high profile but I am not the biggest fan of the switch. Although I am really happy that this blog will become more important, I miss the smallness of the blog too.

I felt like swing state was a small town. All the users here know each other, I feel like a close knit community with all of them. Also, I liked that people can have their own views on this site (I am a liberal Democrat but not as liberal as Kucinich and I really liked hearing other perspectives from moderate Dems like hoosierdem and ruraldem.) In Daily Kos, it might be harder to have diverse opinions.

Another thing I liked was that you really have a voice on this site and you will not get bogged down by other people. In Daily Kos, if you post a diary, it will be gone in two hours. Swing State Project, it is usually up for a week. I post lots of diaries frequently and I liked being able to have something up for awhile.

Still, I support the moderators' decision because Daily Kos is one of the biggest blogs out there and joining up with it is quite amazing. I hope the transition is good and I hope all of the current members make the transition too.  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  

But that small town feeling is mostly selfish
The country needs a site like this, with as high profile as it can have.

Ask not what is good for an individual blogger, ask what is good for the country.

While SSP is not a small site, the impact it can have can be ten times what it has been.

(True, election night threads might be unweildy in the extreme, but the point of the site is far more broad than that.)

[ Parent ]
Daily Kos
Is about to undergo a major software change which will fundamentally alter how the site operates. And we won't get swallowed up by DK at all - we'll be our own, full-fledged sub-site. So you won't look for us by going to www.dailykos.com - rather, you'll (probably) go to elections.dailykos.com. FireDogLake is not a bad analogy. They have their main front page, but they also have separate sub-sites for several of their writers or groups of writers - including, in fact, an elections portal at http://elections.firedoglake.c...
[ Parent ]
Will the SSP subsite on Kos have its own banning system?
I.e., will it be possible to ban people who dont stick to the horserace-only issues, or do not keep to SSP standards of civility and tolerance to those who are not like minded, for the subsite only? And vice versa, if anyone is banned outright, or reduced to no-posting status like someone else here recounted, on the broader Kos site for presenting politically impopular arguments, will they still be able to post on the subsite?

I'm glad for David and for the SSP team - running your own site is exhausting and expensive, and this is obviously a break. Selfishly speaking, I'm a little sad - I come to sites like these so I don't need to go to sites like Kos. Egghead analysis over political bullheadedness any day! I don't post here all that often, but I faithfully read every single post, and every comment thread that comes with it in  full too. But I did that on Pollster.com too, and since it was submerged into HuffPost, I rarely ever go there anymore.

38, Male, SP, NL / LMP, HU

[ Parent ]
I would think
it's not a big problem if you say something like that in the election part of the site. Someone might respond that he doesn't like the candidate you like, but because it's the election part of the site, rather than the main part, it shouldn't degenerate into a nasty argument about why your moderate candidate is The Worst Democrat Evar!!!!!  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?
[ Parent ]
:-(

I'll
give it a try....but unfortunately merging with DKos means that the bipartisan atmosphere of this blog will unfortunately disappear because I doubt MassGOP, GOPVOTER and the other Republicans I have grown to enjoy election based conversations will be driven away. Well I guess with HuffPost being gobbled up by AOL we are truly in a period of change. Especially with the DLC closing up shop....

http://www.politico.com/news/s...

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

I mean
our friendly Republican friends here will be driven away. But maybe I'll finally register for Red Racing Horses....

19, Male, Independent, CA-12
[ Parent ]
Already did that.
:P

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01
[ Parent ]
I will seriously consider doing that, too n/t


"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
congratulations and good luck
I hope the level of discourse in your DKos threads will be higher than the typical DKos flamewar. I drifted away from that site because of the extremely high heat/light ratio, but I'll check out your posts over there.
Thanks, DD
Your support - and willingness to give the change a try - mean a lot.
[ Parent ]
Second reactions
First, I understand DavidNYC's decision. It's clearly the best decision he can make for himself -- and the people that go with him.

I appreciate and have appreciated being among true political nerds. The moderators here have been the best.

Those who know their stuff inside/out -- and are willing to take the time -- will be able to cope in the midst of the DK community. It's just more difficult. Education, especially in the arena of collective political blogs, is a difficult enterprise.

I participated mostly on DK through '07. (user ID 27650, same username). But the intensity of DK often takes more time and energy than I have. It's become too much like a big city. So I tried OpenLeft for a time, impressed by the intellectual heft that was there. But I was not impressed by the frequent course language used by the main diarists -- especially directed at commenters. I especially did not appreciate being called out essentially as a collaborator.

I tried going back to DK, but found that things had changed. I no longer felt welcome as a moderate liberal.

So since mid '09, I was happy to have found a home of sorts here. It's been fun. More importantly, it was beginning to help me reidentify my own beliefs.

While I'll wait and see, I'm not optimistic about my own future participation here, after the changeover. I suspect I might try TMV for a while.

Other suggestions would be appreciated.

Mixed
I haved mixed feelings.

I go to kos every day for the front page, but I never go into the Diaries unless a recommended one really catches my eye and even then never into the comments.

I've tried the beta and its slow as crap.  I know kos goes on and on about how its actually quicker because it loads more per second or some crap, but whatever its slow as crap compared to the current version.  I love SSP not only because of the content but because its always quick to load and I never have problems with it.

So, good for you guys, but not so good for your readership.

29/D/Male/NY-01

I certainly understand
and I'm looking forward to seeing the quality of front-page content you're able to put out with the ability to put full time effort into this.  This place is indispensable already, and I assume it's only going to get better above the fold.

I hope you've negotiated enough leeway in managing the sub-site to be able to help the integration along.  If you can selectively promote on-topic user diaries, use moderation wisely, etc. that will help preserve the tone that makes the comments here one of, what, like 3 good comments sections in the whole blogosphere?  Hopefully the Kos people recognize that's part of the value and will help you all preserve it.

From MO-3, college in CT-3, lived in NH-1, NH-2, PA-2, and MA-8 in the 3 years since.

Thanks
I really appreciate your support and kind words.

Yes, I've spoken at length with Markos about the unique character of the comment boards here, and we're going to do everything we can to preserve that.

[ Parent ]
Devils advocate
You know lots of the polling stuff that goes up over there already doesn't get many comments. Certainly the diaries. People aren't interested. If they were they would already be here. No doubt some new posters will check us out and stay though.
GIven that SSP will now
be cross-subsidized from the advertising displayed on cat diaries and so forth, I do rather hope that its new iteration will "fail" in the sense you've described.  
[ Parent ]
Fail is not what I meant
It would be my hope it will attract the same sort of people as currently post here.
[ Parent ]
I have "fail" in quotes for a reason
A "success" as you describe could well mean that SSP isn't paying its own way. My view is that it would probably survive anyway (though given that this is now to be David's full-time job, I am not confident that he would be satisfied with such an outcome).
[ Parent ]
Worth Noting....
It is not always the best analogy to equate comments on a post to actual readership. If it is a straight poll analysis, or a straight news piece, it might not generate the verbal javelins tossed about in a more contentious or combative piece, where the comments often evolve (or would you say devolve?) into full-on food fights.

Or, as one of the guys who works for Stu Rothenberg told me once when I lamented the lack of comments in my work at DK, "It's because your topic does not incite an online riot."

Doesn't necessarily mean that no one's listening.

"You share your young with the wolves of the nation, there's nothing left til you pray for salvation."

--Black Rebel Motorcycle Club

"American X"

[ Parent ]
If you want me to
I can post a few dozen posts stating some variation of "I am the second coming of one of the eight squirrels of the apocalypse!" but I suspect that's what you had in mind Steve! :P

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!

[ Parent ]
My 2¢
For it to be successful you need a few things.

1) Be able to ban users only from the subsite, so you have the real control of comments.

2) Get a waiver from markos for anyone to the right of Dennis Kucinich

3) Only the current moderators should be able to ban users

4) Keep diaries separate

5) Don't post too many posts per day, part of site success is that there is a daily conversation, not split up in 10

6) Really police new users in the beginning and very strictly, only way

7) When I'll think of more, I'll add

8) Enjoy


22, Male, Conservative Republican, anti-teabag, NY-8

Well
there is one advantage with the move.....your servers won't crash on election night! But I think I might just hover for a few weeks and see how things work. The one thing I fear is if I make a comment like I did about Lugar earlier today in the Daily Digest I'll be slapped down and called a variety of names like collaborator, Nazi, Taliban, etc.

I guess I can compare SSP to my AP US History teacher and DKos to my AP Gov teacher. My AP US History teacher's interest in politics focused on elections like myself, he even asked me in the hallway about what did I think about Scott Brown winning in Massachusetts.

While my AP Gov teacher spent the entire fall semester talking about the joys of the public option and being pie in the sky like about it. She even spent the first day of school talking about how wonderful Rachel Maddow was. I like Maddow too, but we were there to learn about government, not about the intellectual weight of MSNBC.

You can guess which teacher I liked more.

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

Great point!
here is one advantage with the move.....your servers won't crash on election night!


"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Indeed, this is no small point
I mean, we can joke about this sort of thing now, but when it happens, it really, really sucks - for all involved! With DK, we'll have the technical resources to stay up and running in even the most adverse of conditions.
[ Parent ]
From the looks of it
 The changes will not be too big so I am sticking with this blog. I discovered swing state two years ago when I was looking for Obama's 2008 congressional numbers. I have loved this site and I am sticking with it, whatever the shape or form is.

I know a few of you have reservations (you saw my post earlier, I have them too,) but I urge all of us to stick with swing state. We all helped make this blog great, whether by sharing great insights in the comments or posting really great diaries. I know we can help make it even better.  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  

I think this can be good
Really looking forward to wear to poll polls!  

Quick question: how much handholding can we do?  I try not to tell users here "You can't talk about that." because I know I'm not supposed to do the mods job.  Should we still leave that stuff to you when the switch happens or (politely and constructively) say what's alowed?  

But overall congrats on the move!

21, male, CA-15 (home and voting there), LA-2 (college)


Thanks, Jeff!
And that's a very good question. I think it would probably be best, at least at the start, to leave the moderation up to the mods. What I think will be best, though, is if longtime SSP users lead by example - stay focused on the horserace, don't get drawn into policy derails, be polite and calm, etc. In other words, we gotta show `em how it's done. :)

I think the occasional mild "This isn't a good topic for SSP [DKE]" remark is fine coming from users. You can even make us the heavies and frame it as: "I'll let the mods weight in, but I think this probably isn't a good topic," etc., if you prefer.

Also, one other thing: We will definitely be drawing up an FAQ before we transition over. Experienced SSPers will be able to link to it when explaining the "rules of the road" to newcomers.

[ Parent ]
Great, thanks!


21, male, CA-15 (home and voting there), LA-2 (college)


[ Parent ]
Best thing I've learned from watching this site
Is that when someone goes off-topic, the best thing to do is just scroll on.  Oh the number of times you see, well, I shouldnt get into this argument because it's wrong and you are off-topic, but let me throw my two-cents in real quick and then I'm done.  

Scroll on, if no one replies, nothing gets derailed.

[ Parent ]
Exactly
Ignoring a derail and moving on is always the best option.
[ Parent ]
Drat
I used to hang out at DK (I have a really low UserID# even)but got a little tired of the infighting and the echo chambering. Sometimes when I need a partisan fix I lurk there.

But I imagine that's going to endanger some of the things I like about this site...

36, M, Democrat, MD-03

Great news
Really exciting to see this community get a chance to grow into something much bigger, and it's good to see election junkies finally get a fair trade from the field of law in return for Arjun going to law school.

A few thoughts, because that's how I roll.

PLEASE keep the active moderation. SSP has one of the best comment section because of the no BS policy you have enforced so well. DK as a whole hasn't gone there, and I respect that. But that's part of what makes SSP unique, and with full time David and a larger audience there is even more potential to turn the comments into something really exciting, the comment enforcement style of DK as of now would waste that potential.

It's probably irreversible but I think it's a genuinely terrible idea to mix the Presidential content in with the rest. Speaking as a veteran of the netroots presidential primary of wars of 2008 few things seem to bring out the worst in people as much as discussion of candidates for the Presidency of the United States. I guess Nate did it to an extent, but his comment section was never as good as SSP's. Maybe it's a compromise that needed to be made, but I think it's a pretty bad one.  

Let's get David J and James on payroll ASAP. Much more insight than any polls can give.

With all that said, I'm really excited to see where this goes. To SSP!

Maybe in 2016
Should only be a problem if ridiculous calls for a primary challenge to the president take hold.
[ Parent ]
Very kind of you to say
Thank you.

As for the Presidential stuff -- I know that's a change that isn't the most thrilling for me personally (and I have no problem saying that), but at the very least, we won't have a primary war to deal with.

[ Parent ]
For now
But the discourse around Republican candidates, or the incumbent for all that matter, isn't exactly constructive as a general rule.  
[ Parent ]
Thanks, Populista
Really appreciate your support and thoughtful comments. As others, including James, have said, we don't have a Democratic primary to worry about - and that was really the source of all the troubles on other sites in 2007-08. And also, we're still going to stay focused on the horserace, not policy issues.

In 2015, maybe we'll have to revisit. But that's a long way off. :)

[ Parent ]
My two cents
I'm about as far a lefty as they come on most social issues, but I've always enjoyed that this is the only political site I've ever come to where people generally get along and respect each other regardless of their political and ideological lean.  I've even found people on the opposite side of the spectrum here from my homestate who've provided my with excellent technical information in terms of district information.

I really hope this kind of interchange stands.  I really like the intimacy of the place, which had already started to wane with it getting bigger over election center.  Hopefully, we can distinguish between those over there only for DK and us committed SSPers.  Perhaps, we could put SSPers in our new userhandles to help keep our indentity.

Here's an easier idea
You could put that you're an SSPer in your sig line. That would be especially helpful for people who wind up with different usernames - they can let people know what their prior name was.
[ Parent ]
HuffPost/AOL or SwingState/dKos
Which one is bigger?  I'm going for the latter! :-)

I kind of find it funny reading all the "oh no!" comments with their unfair stereotypes of dKos folk.  The reality is that all opinions are welcome there as long as you are not an ass about it.  There is plenty of moderate content on dKos. It's really unfair to label the whole site with broad, unfair generalizations.

I'm quite excited about this move.  My only worry is that dKos prejudice will drive some good, knowledgeable folks like GOPVOTER away.  SwingState is the ultimate crowdsource site. It's very existence is based on random information from people on the ground who are in the know.  We have to do what it takes to keep our users, or we'll become weakened like pollster.com became after they were acquired.

Lots of change going around.  OpenLeft went defunct this weekend, too.  

Both are big
But don't forget Nate Silver taking 538 to the New York Times to finish off the trilogy.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
Thanks, Mike
Really appreciate your support and thoughtful comments.
[ Parent ]
I don't think it's solely prejudice
I've seen conservatives or/and Republicans who posted openly that they were and tried to discuss things in good faith be hounded off DailyKos, on the basis that DailyKos is only for people who want to elect more or/and better Democrats. I don't agree with that policy, but they have the right to have and enforce it. My feeling is that while trolls should be ejected, anyone acting in good faith and being respectful should be welcome. And if that were to change along with the move to DailyKos, I would regret that.

Another thing is that simply being part of DailyKos is a daunting barrier to people who are not partisan Democrats. Imagine how liberals and Democrats would feel if Red Racing Horses were absorbed by Red State (and I know that won't happen if GOPVOTER has anything to say about it, but you get the point).

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  

[ Parent ]
.
OMG. I totally understand what you're saying man.  

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.
[ Parent ]
It could be worse!!
SSP could be merging with firedoglake!!  May SSP change dKos more than dKos changes SSP.  
Hahahaha!
Yeah, definitely hope your last sentence winds up being true!
[ Parent ]
I am extremely excited
One, if I had it my way, I could check this blog every two hours and see a new post to read.  So one step-closer to that goal.  ;)

Two, I am hoping this place goes back to the way it was during the 2008 cycle.  Going from people named IHateBush getting banned to someone for mocking Ted Kennedy on the day of his death, well, I won't ever have to read that shit on a DailyKos site.  

And I think DailyKos has gotten a bit sloppy on politics.  During the 2010 cycle, the focus was all policy instead of organizing and I think having some sort of a horse-race branch to the site will do it some good.  They had the electoral scoreboard for 2008 but not 2010?  Unacceptable.  Orange to Blue could be a bit better, primary challenges could be better organized and to the power of RedState, more analysis of the polling they do, etc.  Not all of that done through SSP, but DailyKos will now have an elections division and I hope will act as such.

We can all at least agree this is a great snub to RedState.  Their website looks like absolute dog shit, DKos is unveiling a brand new one and adding to their operations.

Congrats David!

Thanks, Andrew!
Your support means a lot.
[ Parent ]
Daily Kos Political Director
gets you one-step closer to "Rat Fucker for the DNC".  (Almost hit "post" before realizing I typed fat fucker.)
[ Parent ]
Oh god
Serious LIRL there, dude.
[ Parent ]
I think
"fat fucker for the DNC" was Ed Rendell's title.
[ Parent ]
It sounds insulting on paper
But if I ever had to meet with someone who was titled that I'd probably be a little intimidated.  

Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09
[ Parent ]
Well, I'll undoubtedly at least give it a chance...
I can't say I'm thrilled with the environment over at DailyKos, but, presuming the bulk of current SSP contributors make the migration that way, it should be a comfy scene for me. If, however, I find myself conversing with nothing but fifty grating Markos clones, I may well be discouraged. One question - will there still be Daily Diaries of some form? I'd much appreciate a continuation of those.

FWIW, I love Red Racing Horses and would encourage fellow moderates to give it a look. It's akin to the substantive conversations we have over here, just of a more center-right nature.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

My two cents
Admittedly, I was kind of pissed when I first read this about an hour ago. As an occasional poster and every-second-of-the-day, front-page-on-Safari reader, I really didn't like the change. I guess I still don't.

But I see where you guys are coming from. Getting more coverage and the opportunity to blog full time is definitely appealing.

I have one principle concern: I will miss the community here. From desmoinesdem to hoosierdem to sapelcovits to everyone else who have contributed outstanding analysis and posts, it's going to be sad to have their knowledge crammed in with the Daily Kos crowd. Listen, I think some on DK has insightful opinions, and I generally agree with their politics, but I hate hate hate flamewars and their "Let's give all of our money to Alan Grayson because Kos tells me to" attitude." They hold grudges (see: Jon Tester) and I cannot see them being especially insightful in their comments.

On the flip side, this could be an opportunity to educate them on elections, just as I have been every day I've visited. I've learned so much on this site, it's ridiculous. Maybe that's why I don't want to see it changed. I loved the small, yet educated community, and from what I've seen at DK, it's definitely going to change.

Congrats to the mods here. You've done an unbelievable job, and I will forever be appreciative for the work that you've done. James L, DavidNYC, Crisitunity, and jeffmd, even if you think your job here was thankless, think again. You'll always have someone who's been eternally thankful for what you've done. Even in my freshman year of college, I've already made it far in College Democrats in terms of leadership, due in part to the knowledge that this site has given me.

So, again, congrats. It's just extremely bittersweet to this puppy go.

NY-14, DC-AL (college) Distraught Mets fan

Also, please continue AD references on the new site
COME ON!!

NY-14, DC-AL (college) Distraught Mets fan
[ Parent ]
Thanks for your comments
And for taking the time to be reflective. Don't worry, the AD references are going nowhere, Mister Manager.
[ Parent ]
That's very kind of you
But I am cautiously optimistic that this move could enhance the knowledge being offered (big big caveat: I'm not familiar with the DKos comments section). I really hope so, anyway.

Btw, in addition to being a good poster, I appreciate that you are for the Mets and not for...that other team. :P

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/

[ Parent ]
Being from RI
I assume you like to Sox. Me too. Any enemy of the New York Yankees is a friend of mine :)


NY-14, DC-AL (college) Distraught Mets fan
[ Parent ]
Yup :) (eom)


21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/
[ Parent ]
Thanks!
I really love the community here as well. The other day on red racing horses someone asked me if I was another SSP user and I told him I wasn't and I was able to name all IN-9 users and where they lived in IN-9 off the top of my head. It really is like a home away from home and sincerely hope it won't change too much.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
This is a great post
And I couldn't agree more with all of it.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
I appreciate that
I just needed to vent. You've been a great commenter, I hope your analysis and other's will carry over to DK.

NY-14, DC-AL (college) Distraught Mets fan
[ Parent ]
That's nice of you to say
I read some content on DailyKos most days and often post a few comments, so I'll definitely be staying with SwingStateProject when it moves.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
I'm already on Kos too.
As SoCalGal23.

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
Greetings, SSP community!
I'm the executive editor over at Daily Kos, and while I'm excited as all get out to have David coming on board as political director and your wonderful community moving over to our new platform, I completely understand your apprehensions about preserving the culture you've all worked so hard to create here.

The civility, the pointed direction NOT to discuss policy but to focus on elections--these are the things that have made this community so special to all of you. And this is, quite obviously, a big change.

But it might not be as big as you think.

For one thing, the new platform is going to create, as David said above, a kind of sheltered place. People at first are going to have to go out of their way to find you. Of course, that's good and bad: some of the content regularly posted here deserves wider play, and probably attention will come your way. And while it's true that some diaries at Daily Kos get reduced to meta wars and old-fashioned hate fests, not all of them do. In fact, the majority do not.

You see, we already have a couple of sheltered communities existing prominently within the site. A good example is called I Got the News Today (IGTNT). This community posts regularly about the military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Members do research online, get pictures, fill in the lives of these people and their families.

When the community first formed, a few anti-war commenters visited and started in with some pretty rough stuff ("these men and women were killers," etc.). But the peer pressure of that larger sub-community soon drove them out (or at least taught them to be respectful). IGTNT also became a protected space that the wider community guarded as well--people who didn't regularly visit those diaries would come if summoned in an open thread. And because of the community's self-moderating tools, users were able to collectively kick in an autoban.

But that is rarely needed. Peer pressure and example can be a wonderful thing. And I hope that the standards you've used at SSP not only can be maintained within your sub-community, but can be ported into other communities you can explore at Daily Kos as well. Groups are forming focusing, for example, just on upper New York state races, and on Georgia races and on state legislatures. The cross-pollination opportunities are awesome, and we hope many of you will choose to become part of the other groups.

You don't have to, of course. But we'd welcome you if you did.

Keep in mind our whole community is moving as well, so this is all a grand experiment. We will be keeping our eyes open as to how the transition is faring, and what community tools we can give you to help you maintain your culture while still having the opportunity to have your thoughts and work spread further.

I invite all of you, every one of you, to come on over and help us with our grand experiment. If you spot things that are not working as we all settle in together, let me know. Let David know. We want to make this work, we look forward to having all the great wealth of knowledge in this community become a part of the Daily Kos community, yet still preserve your unique niche.

If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to shoot me an email -- susang@dailykos.com. Or talk to David and he'll discuss your concerns with me; we'll be working closely together daily.

And one last thing? About everyone at DK despising anyone to the left of Dennis Kucinich? Nah. Sometime you ought to read kos on Kucinich. Trust me, you'll enjoy it.  

I'll be thrilled to come aboard.
I have Cook PVI data for all U.S. counties from 1948 to 2008 on my blog (starting here; and have already posted on here California's data going back to 1920) and am working on putting them into diaries here. I can't wait to get to work!

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
[ Parent ]
GREAT resource!
And can't wait to see it all!
[ Parent ]
you touch on one thing that makes me excited for the move
More people viewing our great data collecting works that many of us spend a lot of time on.  In fact, having SSP become a bit of a political database would be excellent and I think lend a lot of credit to DKos as a whole as more than just people bitching about policy.  Unlike Redstate, the front-pagers are very well accomplished and for the most part, their diaries are well researched and belong on major news sites.  Adding our elections knowledge and geeky love for making maps and tables, I think it will be an excellent marriage.

Sure, they have plenty of commenters who suck and are annoying, but I certainly don't care for everyone here, either.

[ Parent ]
WOW!
This is beyond impressive - thanks!

22, male, VA-10
[ Parent ]
Idea
Would you be interested in creating a tool that sorts PVI by media markets? THAT would be awesome. Let me know if you're interested and I'd love to help out.

22, male, VA-10
[ Parent ]
Oh, my. My my my.
That certainly would be awesome.  
[ Parent ]
YES
Great, great, great idea.

Male, VA-08
[ Parent ]
I'd love to be part of the project
But there's no way I can do it all on my own. If you're interested, please email me (available on my profile) and let's get started!

22, male, VA-10
[ Parent ]
Sure I'd love to.


My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
[ Parent ]
Just followed you on twitter
DM me your email and we can talk about how to do it - looking forward to it!

22, male, VA-10
[ Parent ]
That's probably just the tip of the iceberg
for what you can do with that information.  I'd love to get paid to just compile information like that.  I think I still have the link somewhere for where the Feds keep a website with all the results for every Congressional election since the 1920's.  They are an absolute mess, and usually only include vote totals and not percentages.

I'd love to see some sort of community site that serves as a public space for all this information.  A site that is a Wikipedia of sorts but only electoral information, how delicious!  (I need to know more rich people who could fund that and give me a job.)

[ Parent ]
Thank you for coming here and giving us your personal reassurance.
David will be an excellent addition to your staff, and you won't be disappointed with his work. I truly hope that your assessment proves to be accurate, and the quality of the dialog will increase, and not decease. We feel as though we have a wonderful group here at SSP, and the culture that we have so carefully crafted is valuable to us. It would be a tremendous loss to the political blogosphere if such a culture went extinct. I trust that David, James, Cristunty and Jeff will moderate the new site effectively, as they have done here. As with any influx of people, the additional patronage will obviously take more of an effort to keep people in line. I hope that David has the blessing from all other management at Daily Kos to manage this "sheltered community" as he sees fit. Again, thank you for your words, and I wish this transition to be as seamless as possible.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
I appreciate your kind words
I do not doubt your sincerity. However, I think I now better understand how some people in Hong Kong felt during the first half of 1997.
[ Parent ]
^This
That Hong Kong metaphor is a great one.

Male, VA-08
[ Parent ]
I just think it is a big mistake of tietack

[ Parent ]
I hope you're right
But I doubt it. And I get the sense that many regular SSP users share my doubts.
[ Parent ]
while you are comparing SSP with Hong Kong, you are comparing DailyKos with China

This is not right. This is not diplomatic.
[ Parent ]
What is wrong or undiplomatic about it?
I think it is an accurate representation of the comparative sizes of the sites -- and the differences in the culture of the sites.

In fact, the promise made by Susan Gardner about preserving the culture of SSP is like the promise made first by Deng Xiaoping.

And I think the only Americans who have trouble with the return of Hong Kong to China are Goldwaterites. And I don't think there are many Goldwater types on DK.

[ Parent ]
and Deng Xiaoping was?

a dictator?
[ Parent ]
Most Americans supported China
when they wanted to take back Hong Kong.

Therefore, your attempted inference is not relevant.

[ Parent ]
This is an easy inference

You may not have intention of make think this, I judge not it, but many people would take it by this way. And you can not forget it, because that would give you troubles (talking about DailyKos) in DailyKos. Many people can take offense. But well you can follow my advise or not. This can be a good example about the things what I was trying to explain you in your diary.

Other very easy inferences:

Deng Xiaoping was marxist?

And they are more bad but easy inferences. Cause of this I think your example is not diplomatic and is not right.

[ Parent ]
After what happened with Leland Yee
and Rush Limbaugh w/r/t Hu Jintao

I don't think what you suggest will be an issue, especially in a liberal blogsphere.

There are many other complementary examples.

If I am wrong on that, then I do not belong in the liberal blogsphere.

It would be different if SSP were merging with RedState, but fortunately, that is not the case.

[ Parent ]
I actually agree with abgin on this
I would suggest you clarify what you do and don't mean by the analogy. People in Hong Kong were apprehensive about the takeover by the government in Beijing because they thought their rights might be taken away. I, for one, am genuinely surprised that Hong Kongers retain the rights to practice Falun Gong and demonstrate against the government.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
I will think it through
It's certainly true that the history and the results before and after '97 are not well known. There have been some successes, but they're certainly far from complete. I think the Wikipedia article on the topic is a mostly fair description of what's happened so far. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...

It is the best analogy that I can think of, as I am apprehensive. It does describe the relative difference in sizes. It does contrast the difference in culture. The "one country two systems" idea is consistent with what is being promised.

And of course, the DK/SSP merger will have its own path, which could be analogously more successful -- or not.

Would an analogous result be good enough? At what point would I say "leave Hong Kong and move to Vancouver"?

[ Parent ]
tietack, give the new site a chance, I bet you'll like it......
I'm excited about this, I think it's going to prove a great improvement.

As I said in a comment above, the fact that this is still going to be a separate web page should make it not much different from now.  You're going to need a separate bookmark for it.  A lot of the people at DK whose comments you might not like also are not true campaign junkies and won't go to the trouble of frequenting the new site.

But the key is that the regulars here all need to be willing to move over there and be part of the community.  As long as that happens, and there's not too much drop off, the new site will be fine.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
Uh, it's not that everyone is to the left of Sanders or Kucinich at Daily Kos.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

(Check the comments section too.)

Why is Markos advocating getting rid for Tester? He voted against us once (maybe 5% of the time in 4 years in the Senate) and he's from Montana. Realize he's not a complete hack like Baucus (be glad) and support him. Get rid of the liberal-moderate Kay Hagan? Replace him with a Richard Burr clone?

I can understand all the problems with Lieberman because he represented the liberal state of Connecticut and we certainly had nothing to lose with Blanche Lincoln ... but Jon Tester?

Oppose one key issue of the left and you are done on Daily Kos...

Anyway, I am interested to see what becomes of this move, and I look forward to the extended and improved blog as well as a new wealth of information.  But the idea that Daily Kos as an open community is just not true.  

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
Markos is Hispanic and an immigrant and issues like the DREAM Act are personal to him......
We all have issues that are personal to us.  They are our personal lines-in-the-sand.  We don't all share the same ones.  For Markos, public policies that treat minorities and particularly Hispanics unfairly are among his lines-in-the-sand.

And that's perfectly fair.

Markos is the founder and owner of the site, it's his brainchild and baby, and as such whatever he says is inherently louder and gets more play than what anyone else says on DailyKos.  But he's earned that.  And it doesn't mean anyone else should feel shut out for supporting Tester.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
Well put!
Generally, those are the only times I dislike DKos and the rhetoric there.  But, when it's your blog, you get rant all you please.  If anything, I like that he still views his blog as where he can still do that.  The blog grew because people liked reading him so he should get to say what he wants.

If I disagree with the rant in a particular case, I can always just keep scrolling.

[ Parent ]
Markos is free for tell what he want, like I'm

I see some people defending without trouble politicians like J Webb, T Kaine or J Tester just today:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

[ Parent ]
Thanks for the explanation
I look forward to the opportunities this merger could lead to and thank you for giving us your reassurances.

22, male, VA-10
[ Parent ]
With all due respect, Susan, let's get real
The reason I actively avoid DailyKos is exactly what you're trying to say doesn't happen, Susan--the cloying, mind-numbing groupthink, the flamewars, the intolerance of a diversity of viewpoints. And while I get that it's kinda your job to be a shiny, happy person, I don't appreciate BS, which is what I think you're spewing. Many, if not most, of us are here because we don't enjoy Kos.

Another great thing about SSP is that there is at least something of a contingent of (sane) Republicans: MassGOP, InRepublican, GOPVOTER, (and others I'm forgetting at the moment) all of these folks make great contributions to discussions and bring in viewpoints that even if I don't agree with, I very much appreciate being exposed to. How many Republicans can you name on Kos that don't get down-modded like hell every time they post?

Granted, I've avoided Kos like the plague of dumb that it mostly is for almost 2 years now (ever since I discovered SSP and realized how much better things could be) so I could be wrong about its present state. But after some cursory glances this morning, I doubt it. Sorry y'all, I've been thinking about this for a little bit now, trying to reconcile myself to the idea, but the more I think about it, the more I am filled with dread.

The other thing is, and I'm really sorry to have to say this because I know you mods probably know him personally, but I really don't want to support a site that makes Markos into any more of a spokesperson for the netroots than he already is. In my opinion, he is a horrifically awful representative: narrow-minded, shrill, needlessly confrontational, and...well, I won't go on with the insults, and I am sorry to have to make them. But it would be really hard to go on SSP knowing that that's what I was ultimately doing.  

David, I understand why you're doing what you're doing. I don't blame you for it. I'd probably make the same decision if I were in your shoes. It's great (for you) that you can be a full-time blogger. But I'm seriously fucking sad for this community. My lip trembled and I got a little teary-eyed as I wrote this. I guess I didn't realize how much SSP meant to me.

So know this, David & co.: you've made me seriously consider launching a rival site to replace SSP far from the maddening crowds of Kos. That's not a threat, it's a promise. If you guys fuck this up, and let the wild-eyed partisans of Kos infect SSP, I promise I will launch a rival site. In the meantime, I'll swallow my disgust, re-join Kos, and hope for the best. But I am deadly serious about this--if you let SSP become just another braying mouthpiece for partisanship, I will revolt, and I'd bet I'll have a lot of SSPers joining me.

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.

[ Parent ]
Sorry you view it as BS
I'll just back out of here slooooowly ....  
[ Parent ]
Oh Susan
Oh Susan, come down off the cross, darlin', we could use the wood.  ;)  Look, I'll be very clear--I appreciate your comments. It shows you actually do realize that SSP is a special place with an unique sense of community. I, for one, appreciate that.

What's BS is your saying that Kos isn't a place with a relatively narrow range of accepted ideologies and where fractious ideological debates tend to drown out more fact-based discussions. That's what sucks. That's what we don't want to become. That's (among the reasons) why many of us don't like Kos.

On SSP, we've got hardcore atheist socialists, we've got effete latte liberals, we've got working-class union stiffs, we've got centrist-y moderate Dems, we've got independents, libertarians, and yes, we've got (sane) Republicans....and we all pretty much get along. We discuss things in sane, calm, fact-based ways and it's one of the reasons I haven't stopped loving America and apple pie. So you can't let rabid partisans destroy that, Susan, not if you want SSP to continue to be a place where smart people go to learn stuff and share things they've learned.

And to all the Republicans and indies out there, please, at least give Kos a shot. SSP is cool enough that you should at least try to preserve it. I'm not happy about this move, either, but if you like something, well, sometimes you've gotta fight for it and maybe do things you don't really want to do to preserve it.

I promise I will defend--staunchly, and with all the snarky assholish-ness I have at my disposal--your right to be ... well, to the right, ideologically. And as a bonus, I've got a whole array of zingers to use on liberal zealots that will amuse you, but that I haven't had occasion to use thanks to the genial nature of SSP. So there's that.  

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.

[ Parent ]
To be frank
If you keep it to talking about horse race politics, it shouldn't matter who you are talking to.  Horse race politics is simply a mathematical equation, what plus what plus what equals 50%+1, let's debate how to get there or if it's even possible for some candidates.

If this blog is going to be held to some holy grail of bipartisan, everyone gets along because we discuss horse race politics instead of policy, then we should be asking ourselves why we even know the other person's affiliation in the first place.  And why it matters.

[ Parent ]
Because even though Republicans discuss horserace politics by the numbers
their perspective is different from a Democrat's. They may, for example, have more inside knowledge about Republican politics because they personally know or/and have worked with/for Republican politicians in their states.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
unfortunately arealmic is able for be kind with the republicans but

but not with the people what run DailyKos.

Not all the people here think the same.

[ Parent ]
abgin, to be clear
I have no problem with the people who run Kos**, I think they're a good group of civic-minded Americans. What I have a problem with is the general tenor of the discussions there. Compared with the general level of discussions on SSP, they suck.  

And btw, everyone, I made the move to Kos. I'm givin' it the ole college try. I'm still "arealmlc" on Kos, so if you can't tell me by my rude, off-color comments, you should be able to remember that username.

**admittedly, I'm not a fan of Markos' PR skills and am annoyed by his occasional bouts of irrational anger (which we all have, admittedly...I just save mine for when I'm not on TV or writing a post on the front page of a widely-trafficked blog), but he's undeniably a skillful blogger, very smart, committed to his ideals, and yes, a very valuable member of the Democratic Party and society in general.

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.

[ Parent ]
I was already thinking
Of setting up a nonpartisan version of SSP/RRH to go along with my site. Maybe we can team up to build one and anyone that wants their fix of elections data but doesn't feel comfortable with Kos can feel free to join. If you want to help out email me at saraann.maxwell@gmail.com

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
[ Parent ]
I completely agree, unfortunately
I really, really hope the move to Kos doesn't destroy the community we have at SSP. This is perhaps the only place I've found online to sanely discuss horse-race politics without everyone throwing insults at each other or pretending flaming liberals can get elected statewide in places like Montana and Arizona.

If we lose that sense of community and that fabulous collective intelligence, I'm gone. I love this site too much to see it sink into the sea of left-wing mediocrity that is Daily Kos.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
I doubt you are understanding well this change

It is so sad you can be able for be kind with these republicans (nothing rare here) but you are not able for be kind with the people of DailyKos.

I'm not a member of the staff of DailyKos or SwingStateProject, but I know since long time about the close relation between this site and DailyKos. I come here from DailyKos, from the link of "Kos Alumni" sites, and I like both sites, I enjoy both sites.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would tell, DailyKos, and Markos, help us for have the chance of be here in SSP. I think we should be grateful about this.

I'm sure DavidNYC take a little sad your words about DailyKos because he is since long time (since 2003 if I'm not wrong) one of the front-page contributing editors at DailyKos.

http://davidnyc.dailykos.com/u...

If you are happy with the work of David in the current SwingStateProject and knowing he come here from DailyKos, why give not some credit to the change?

You should read a "historic documment" like this:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

:)

I would tell the Swing State Project born in DailyKos.

While I'm writing this comment I'm discovering some new things about the nice origin of the Swing State Project, and looking to the links of the first comment of this last diary I can recover some words of DavidNYC (October 2003) what confirm what I was thinking:

A "Thank You" to Kos
I want to give a very big thank you to Markos at DailyKos - not just for his recent plug of this site, but, more importantly, for the inspiration he's given me. It's safe to say that without DKos, I never would have embarked on this project. And the fantastic new "diary" feature on the new Scoop-powered site gave me the final push I needed.

I've been reading Kos for almost exactly a year now, so I'm not quite as quick a learner as he is. But Kos has been a fantastic teacher and I am very proud to be one of his blogchildren.

- posted by DavidNYC @ 2:54 AM Comments


[ Parent ]
Wow, thanks, I'm really touched
And yes, that comment from so many years ago is still true today.
[ Parent ]
As user in both sites

I agree about the defense of the majority of users of DailyKos. I find very good people in DailyKos.

Thank You :)

[ Parent ]
hmm
This should be ok as long as the new SSP has the same group of moderators with the same level of control and the same policies. I'm worried that over time the site will be unable to attract new independents, Republicans, and even moderate Democrats as the "Kos" label might scare them off even if the site remains the same reasonable place it is today.  

41, Ind, CA-05
Yes.
I feel like this is the most likely worry to be vindicated.

I have faith in the moderators and the current community here, and believe we can keep much of the same feel. But as people inevitably slowly cycle out, the new people cycling in are less likely to be conservative or moderate, which will reduce the diversity of voices here. Perhaps this is inevitable anyway, given that RedRacingHorses.com will draw up many of those conservative voices regardless.

Apart from this worry, I am pretty much okay with this move. And, of course, I wish to congratulate David and the other editors/moderators on this move.

[ Parent ]
Put me in the no column (but congrats)
I may be one (of many) here who have profiles on both SSP and Kos, but the experience is different (as is the focus).

Here, I feel like my time is not wasted reading the comments and discussions - on Kos, I feel it is not worth my time to scroll through the comments (unless I actually post the diary). Here, all of the comments are on target and interesting, and while I am certain that is because of Herculean efforts by the editors here, it makes a huge difference.

Second, the focus is different - I always saw SSP as a complement to Kos. On DK, I would (and can) get my fix of national political news (and Presidential updates), here, the focus was on Congress (and especially the House). And, originally, SSP was a place to get information of state races (beyond the Governor) as well. When I joined (ID #78) saw SSP as a perfect complement to Howard Dean's 50 state strategy, while DK fostered a progressive, but national community.

I know that DK is changing, but I remember some brutal self-purgings there (especially in 2008). Even today, while the policy on Kos allows for respectful dissent, the reputation of Kos is such that it is not inviting to individuals with a conservative point of view.

While I have my doubts that this community will survive the transition, I applaud the decision to move (back), since resources are important and even the best volunteers have mouths to feed.      

My question is....
"And we aren't going to be swallowed up by Daily Kos - we'll be our own sub-site, which you'll probably access by going to http://elections.dailykos.com. That address will feature only horserace content posted by the SSP writers (plus Arjun and Steve) - in other words, it'll look almost exactly like what the site looks like right now."

What about the user diaries? Certainly, this works well for the contributing editors (and those who follow them), but short of an editor promoting a diary, or for the creation of a group, how easy is it going to be to follow SSP diaries when transitioned to DK? The group section in the beta version is fine, to an extent, but it means additional clicks to find abgin's latest redistricting diary if I wasn't there when it was posted. (Yes, I know I could follow an author's work, but it still is not right there for me to spot).

[ Parent ]
#78!
Damn, there are people still left who are older than me in Swingnut years.
[ Parent ]
this
shocked me.

im really nervous we will lose the community we have here

david/james/other mods, could you address these concerns

-diaries: will they stay up for longer?
please moderate well

other users:

-we are like a family, keep the same usernames
-GOPVoter, MassGOP/BostonPatriot/other Republicans: please come along. i know we aren't really an echo chamber, but i'm worried it'll become one without your influences

this is an even bigger shock to me than jane harman's resignation or Joe Walsh getting elected to Congress.

let's hope swingnuts all migrate with you and the community remains the same

18, Dem, CA-14 (home) CA-09 (college, next year). social libertarian, economic liberal, fiscal conservative.   Everybody should put age and CD here. :)

Sigh...
Well good luck to you all.  I just can't make the move and i'll save myself from the DK populace.  I wish you all the best.

Sheesh, 2010 I had to change churches due to changes in leadership, 2011 I have to change blogs.  I hope I can keep my 1995 Maxima running so I can keep something constant in my life :-)

I hope you reconsider, I think you'll like the new place......
My expectation is that the community will be of the same quality and will only benefit from the larger platform.  I don't think the types of people you dislike at DK will be regulars on what will still be a separate web page.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10
[ Parent ]
Frankly - i have mixed reaction..
A lot of positive change, but i know firsthand from my (rather long) experience on DailyKos, that it's (and becoming more so) a "site for Democratic purists" (as i told here i was banned twice there, for mocking (i confess) purists, who wanted to run "pure progressives" say to "punish Stupak" in MI-01, or even better - somewhere in North Georgia, where even conservative Democrat has very slim chances). The mad (and dumb, IMHO) cries of "purists" "primary him/her!" directed at anyone who "dared" to deviate from radical left orthdoxy sometimes drove me mad. And that's me - slightly left of center Indie. I can imagine reaction of DKos community on some of more conservative our members here...

I like Steve and his posts there (he is a solid liberal, but they are alwasys balanced) and some other people, but, frankly - not so many,contrary to what was in beginning, when dissent was at least tolerated on DKos...

Congratulations, guys
I have to say I was surprised and a little confused at first, until I realized that this move would give DavidNYC the chance to become a full-time blogger, which is great news for everyone in the blogosphere. I wish everyone the best of luck at their new home.

As for me, I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to register at DailyKos, so this probably marks the end of my time here--I'm sure that at least a couple people are smiling reading this :). It's probably for the best, as I'll be able to wean myself off what I call "political crack" and focus more fully on Red Racing Horses. But I have thoroughly enjoyed being part of this community and want to thank everyone for being so tolerant of the loyal opposition. You are all welcome to stop by RRH if you ever need a Republican fix, and I'm sure I'll make my way over to DKos as a lurker to keep up with what's going on there.

20, CD MA-03/NH-01/MA-08

Ok.
But do stick around here for the site's final week as an independent blog.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!
[ Parent ]
It'll definitely be a little longer than that
Daily Kos is launching its new platform this weekend. There will be some inevitable bug-squishing that will take place before the tech team is ready to move us over.
[ Parent ]
I'll be sure to frequent RRH.
I already posted a couple of comments there, and while I'll give DKos/SSP a shot, I see a gloomy future ahead for it. Well, not for 'it', but for 'me and it'.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)
[ Parent ]
I hope it's better than you expected.
You're a great source of all things MT and it would be a big loss.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!
[ Parent ]
I don't think I'll be completely gone,
I'm at DailyKos too, after all. But I definitely see the quality of comments going downhill as the moderates start to leave and more liberals come in- not that comments by liberals have a lesser quality, but ideological homogeneity leads to that.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)
[ Parent ]
I think
its more like from 2009 and on the poster at Daily Kos didn't have Bush to bash constantly so they split into their various ideological factions and began taking out their anger on Democrats who didn't toe the party line. Its always easier to be out in the peanut gallery than in the arena.  

19, Male, Independent, CA-12
[ Parent ]
Yep
I think that's exactly what's happened.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Understandable
just like how I could never register, or even look at Redstate. (I developed this odd habit of viewing all Republican leaning sites on Internet Explorer inPrivate mode two years ago.) I'll probably pop up on Red Racing Horses one of these days. You guys are doing a good job by the way. I admit RRH is going to be a learning experience for me. I'm understandably going to cringe whenever a poster taking a shot at Democrats like when you guys were discussing how the DCCC attacked Mike Fitzpatrick who happened to be a cancer victim. But I'll do my best to keep my tongue in cheek like you guys have done here.

And I've thoroughly enjoyed your time here. As well as GOPVOTER, you guys completed the puzzle as I would like to say.

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Facts don't have a partisan bias.
It's a testament to the kind of quality/community SSP has that even though the site began as a DailyKos project that its taken such a life of its own now. It'll be a shame if most of the Republican/conservative users leave; having an ideological and politically heterogeneous community keeps the rest of us honest and empirical in our analysis (well, most of the time...) Not to fall back on the hack's last resort and start throwing out common cliches, but in politics there's opinion, there's convictions, and then theres what they call "Lies, damned lies, and statistics." Hopefully the new SSP will keep the fine balance that exists between all those things here.

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)
[ Parent ]
Who's smiling?
Even though I think lots of Republican posters here push the envelope, I always counted you among the exceptions. The vast majority of posters on SSP would agree that you contributed to the site in a positive manner.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/
[ Parent ]
I
fully understand were your coming from and no, no one is happy about you leaving your one of the most valued users here in my view. I hope you reconsider and post the occasional comment when you feel like it. Good luck with RRH, its going great so far.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
It's been a pleasure
Your great commentary will be missed, and I very much intend to catch up with what's been going on at RRH since the last time I checked. I may well join, too.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Well, that's exactly why this sucks.
I appreciate your work and insights, MassGOP. And I totally understand the difficulty in registering at the Orange Satan. It's not easy for me to go back there, but it's helpful that I'll be able to bypass their front page and go straight to the elections site.

29, Male, Dem, NY-20  
[ Parent ]
I have to say
I'm very excited for you guys and for this change. I have full faith that you guys will make this work. I hope everyone comes along for the ride. It really wouldn't be the same! Also like Susan Gardner said, there are many people and communities on Daily Kos that are just like us. Maybe they can help us and insure great discussion.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)
Well, big congratulations to David and co.
It sounds like a hell of an opportunity and not one I personally could turn down if I was in the same situation. In fact, as a questionably competent amateur electoral analyst (Considering business cards with that title, actually) this I guess is the kind of chance I might admit to dreaming about... just a little...

Just as a user, though, I can't say I'm too enthusiastic. I guess that's mostly due to just liking SSP as it is, that meaning, a vehicle for me to contribute idiotic jokes and inane commentary while other commenters that actually know what they're talking about educate me. I like coming to SSP twenty times a day and mashing F5 repeatedly. I like telling the tales of the trolls of bygone times that made ridiculous claims and didn't back them up with anything. I even like occasionally writing something about Indiana elections that nobody else had posted yet.

I guess I can keep doing that, whether the site is Swing State Project or DKos Elections. I'll give it a shot; I never had an account at DKos, having found the massiveness of the site's community a little overwhelming. Hopefully nobody has my name already.

Even though I'll cop to not being all that cheery about this, I hope folks here don't let their preconceptions (yes, pre, not mis-) of the environment at DKos lead them into not giving the new site a fair shake. You guys that run this little refuge of a site have always administered it well and made solid decisions when it came to moderating. Maybe I'm naive but I don't imagine that's all going to go to hell overnight. Seems to me you all deserve a chance after all the work you've put into this site that we've all benefited from.  

Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09

Even by my low standards this is incoherent
I've got to stop posting past midnight.  

Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09
[ Parent ]
Actually, I found it quite coherent
And look when I posted this... :-)

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Good job!
You are going to make me dredge up my old Dkos account, which was miraculously never banned.

19, Male, libertarian Republican, TX-14 and MN-04
I never noticed your tagline before.
I guess I wouldn't have pegged you as a St. Paul resident, at all.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
It gets weirder
I actually go to Macalester. Yeah, that college.

I have a lot of family up here, and the college gives a good polisci program and damn good financial aid.

19, Male, libertarian Republican, TX-14 and MN-04

[ Parent ]
Weird
Macalester was one of the colleges I was considering out of high school. Not because of the politics of it, but because the football coach wanted me there. I instead chose to pursue wrestling elsewhere, and blew out my knee first semester. Shit happens, I suppose.

But I would have pegged you to be more of a St. Thomas kind of guy, if I had known you were a MIAC student. I figured you were too smart to be at Crown, Bethel, or Northwestern. Macalester is certainly a surprise.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
No, imperial would never
be at St. Thomas, he is a bleeding liberal at heart. (jk jk we both go to Macalester and know each other). I think we may be the first people to have met after "knowing" each other on SSP.

19, gay male, IL-7, MN 4 (college), Dem
[ Parent ]
Doubtful
Only because James and I met "in real life" only after meeting on SSP - in fact, only after he became an editor here! This would have been back in 2006 or 2007.
[ Parent ]
One or the other
Late 2006 or very, very early 2007. Feels like a lifetime ago!
[ Parent ]
And I actually met Tim Tagaris
Before I met you - in around February of 2006, at a Band of Brothers event on the Mall in DC.

And I met Chris Bowers (who was once an FPer here) even before that, sometime in 2004 or 2005, also in DC.

LOL - I even met B-1 Bob in San Francisco in the summer of 2005.

[ Parent ]
damn right you are a "libertarian Republican" at Macalester
You'd be eaten alive otherwise!  Congrats on being at Macalester, it's easily one of the best schools in the Midwest.  And as a St. Thomas graduate, I was always ridiculously jealous that there was a Jamba Juice next to campus and the Breadsmith's banana chocolate chip muffins are amazing.

I have heard they are putting a Chipotle in the new student center so I picture a lot of bleach blonde, Northface jacket, Ugg boots, Coach/Louie purse toating girls with big Chipotle bellies.  Great way to battle anorexia at UST, awful for bulimia.  (Yes, UST girls are everything you have heard.)

[ Parent ]
Oh silly MIAC kids.
GO GOPHERS!

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."

[ Parent ]
No offense towards your alma mater
I have met several St Thomas girls and they were AWFUL people. incredibly shallow, rude, narcissistic, and self absorbed. I can't even comment on their good looks due to my lack of being straight. I am very very glad I go to Macalester.

19, gay male, IL-7, MN 4 (college), Dem
[ Parent ]
If you want to see the partisan-hack me
you can all go rec the DKos diary I just put up a minute ago, haha.
It IS actually worth a read, because it could be a talking point in the MT-Sen race. http://www.dailykos.com/storyo...

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)
Very mixed feelings (like when your favorite band starts getting played on the radio)
First off I want to congratulate DavidNYC and the other monitors. The fact that this is occurring is a sign of the fact that they have made SSP into the best blog to discuss wonky campaign and election related issues on the internet. I am very glad that you'll finally be adequately financially compensated for your work and I hope that it will allow you to make SSP even better.

But...

I wish the partnership could have been with someone other than dailykos. I used to spend a lot of time there prior to the brutal 2008 primary purge and the even more brutal 2009 Public Option/purist/kill-the-bill purge. Although the front page comment is still very solid, the commenters on dailykos are far to extreme for me and I say this as a life-long relatively liberal Democrat who was an organizer for Obama in 2008 and a volunteer on dozens of Democratic campaigns stretching all the way back to 2003.

As long as SSP basically stays the way it is I'll be trilled to get the same great community along with the compensation the mods deserve and the resources a major blog like dailykos can provide. I just hope that the new commenters augment our community rather than supplant it, and that SSP does not become like dailykos.  

25, Democrat, male, Currently living and voting in PA-2, originally form OK-1

Good look.
Dave, a lot of other people have said this, but for a year or two I was just a casual user who just had an account to have one, but never posted on the site because my experience with online posting has been nothing but negative. The amount of positive feedback I've seen and gotten and the feeling of community here is overwhelming compared to the drivel that appears on most site's pages (just go The Hill's comments section - every other comment looks like it could've been automated!). I know several things I've said and written have either wilted or bloomed under the spotlight. One person even cited my comments in a diary they made - and I had only been posting for a few days and knew nothin' about nothin'! You don't see that on any other blogs.

Plus the level of rigor and originality expected from the site regulars on comments/diaries really gives the material a real professional but collegial atmosphere. Its nice to have a blog covering politics in depth without becoming too dryly didactic or too much of a spectator's sport. I'm happy that the move over to DailyKos will give the SSP crew more resources and time, and hope some people don't stop contributing because of the change.

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)

I meant good luck, obviously.


20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)
[ Parent ]
Congrats!
I'm sure this is a great move for the SSP crew. Perhaps you'll even manage to restore some sanity to the greater dKos world.

I'm skeptical that I'll make the transition myself, but I'll at least check it out. I'm too new here to matter much, anyhow, which is ironic considering I have a 3-digit dKos ID. However, it's no accident that I haven't posted there since November 2003, and no doubt the only reason I wasn't outright banned before my self-imposed exile was because of my 'history' with Markos.

But, hey, maybe it's time to go back. I guess we'll see!

I might as well go grab 'roguemapper' because I won't be resurrecting my old ID regardless.

Thank you
And I certainly hope you stick around. You may be new here, but your maps have made a strong impression - I believe I linked to one of your diaries a few weeks ago.
[ Parent ]
Thanks!
I genuinely appreciate that. I'm sure I'll make the move with SSP to dKos, now that I'm over my initial shock and awe. LOL! Anyway, I can't imagine where else I'd get my redistricting fix (I have absolutely no interest in RRH).

I actually regret the comments I posted about Markos. It was a long time ago and there's no need to dredge up the past. For that matter, I think in recent years he's made a valiant effort to turn dKos into more of a genuine community and far less of a personal sounding board.

But, hey, whatever! Another lesson on the pitfalls of impulsive posting. Whatever the case, I'll be there on the other side after the move.

As for maps, I haven't posted much the past week or so, but that's only because I've been deluged with work. No doubt I'll be back at it soon enough.

[ Parent ]
hhhhhmmmm
Congrats David you definitely deserve it.
Actually my only concern is that we will get overwhelmed by the inclusion of the presidential race at kos or anywhere else other than here.

IMHO it is a natural progression for SSP to migrate somewhere else and if not kos then where?

But gee with all of the presidential stuff we are going to see over there. The comments threads will have to be VERY carefully moderated to avoid the prez becoming the subject of conversation.

I care about who's who in the zoo in the dogcatcher race in Bumfuck Indiana dammit ;)

2010 Race Tracker Wiki

Thanks, Ben
Always appreciate your support.
[ Parent ]
My Daily Kos Transition Demands
David, this move is completely unacceptable, unless the following conditions are met:

1.) Babka contests continue.

2.) You find a way to keep the green header. Downballot elections just aren't the same without an obnoxious green color.

In all seriousness, congratulations on the move. I've spent a lot of time on the DKos beta site and, while not yet perfect, I think there's a ton of potential, especially for sub-community blogs like SSP-in-exile/DKE/whatever the final name is. Web technology is going to get a lot more advanced and a lot more exciting in the next few years, and it's great to see progressives poised to keep up with the new tools. I'm excited to see SSP be a part of that.

For those worried about maintaining the same community feel-- they've done a phenomenal job for almost 8 years of fostering the right atmosphere. That's two presidential elections and some epic blogosphere flamewars that... somehow... never seemed to affect this corner of the internet. Show me another website with an 8 year record like that and I'll, well, buy you babka. With David working full-time, I'm confident that he can handle anything Daily Kos throws at him.

I'll be following over, though probably with a different username-- I'm using the DK4 switch to retire my SSP and DKos usernames, neither of which really make any sense several years later. But I don't comment often enough for anyone to notice anyway.

But, yeah. I'm excited, as long as I still have a shot at babka some day.

Damn
We're in serious trouble. Babka contests are GUARANTEED to continue (hell, they will only increase in frequency), but puke green will, I think, have to give way to in-your-face orange. Is this a deal-breaker? :)

But seriously, thanks for your kind words and the vote of confidence.

[ Parent ]
I am lukewarm
In an ideal world, DavidNYC would be a full-time blogger while our commentariat remained elitist. But is this a fair trade-off? It depends on how much better the main diaries become, since that's ultimately what I'm here for.

Perhaps we can halt a troll infestation by standing together and using the forces of our logical arguments to keep the border secure.  

This
Perhaps we can halt a troll infestation by standing together and using the forces of our logical arguments to keep the border secure.

Is basically what I am hoping for! While we will very actively moderate on the new site, we need our current users to stick together and set the tone for newcomers.

[ Parent ]
DavidNYC, as the new Political Director
re managing polling; is Markos giving you a budget for polls that you get to pick and commission. Or is he still going to be making the selections?

I discovered SSP from the link on DK's blogroll under the Kos Alumni. And now SSP is returning home to its roots, so to speak.
I'm sure this move will be awesome and we'll be seeing great things in the coming months and years.

Thanks for your support
I really appreciate it.

As for polling, I'll be in charge, though in the past, "who gets to decide" has never really been an issue. If we can't poll a given race one week, we can always poll it the next week. And if there's something genuinely time-sensitive, people are very likely to agree anyway.

And there will be lots of polls coming down the pike.

[ Parent ]
While there is some apprehension to the daily Kos merger
There is one thing we can all agree on.  At least it wasn't aquired by those Dunder heads over at Red State!

In all seriousness, I can only see the positives of this move.  More posts, more users, and most importantly, more clout/public exposure.

Congrats David and SSP team, I'm sure this will be a huge success.  The people who have worries, I hope in a few months you will find that those fears were completely unfounded.

20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)

Thank you so much
This means a lot.
[ Parent ]
As a user here for over 3 years
I wish David, James, Crisitunity, and everyone the best of luck. I already have an account on Kos and have posted some diaries there, and I will be looking forward to continuing contributing my share of data to the political blogosphere.

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
I really appreciate this
Especially coming from a long-time user and dedicated contributor such as yourself.
[ Parent ]
:D


My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
[ Parent ]
DK
DK is anti-Obama...They critisize Obama for almost everything and every moves he makes. If you don't like Sanders or Kunichich, you are a bad Democrat for them.

Bad move.

I like Sanders
but absolutely dislike Kucinich.....))) And am not a Democrat at all, rather - Indie. Don't i have a right to be one?)))
[ Parent ]
Where is this Kucinich stuff coming from?
Kucinich has never been popular at DK. Markos will take just about any opportunity to mock him and I don't think he ever pulled more than a couple percent in straw polls over there. So why are so many people in this thread using him as the marker for where the DK community is? Serious question, by the way.
[ Parent ]
You're right, but they don't dislike Kucinich because
of his stances, just because he's ridiculous personally. Take Alan Grayson, who is even more insane than Kucinich, and who is generally taken as the model for how a Democrat should campaign on DailyKos after even not even getting 40% in a swing district.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)
[ Parent ]
Great example.
That one would make so much more sense but you're one of the first, if not the first, people I've seen mentioning Grayson here. And it's more than just a cosmetic difference, both on policy and campaigning. It's pugnacity vs. New Age. (Republicans want you to die fast vs. Department of Peace.) Also, as you mention on the Grayson side, swing district vs. pretty solid blue district. Anyway, lots of differences -- the key one being Grayson is a fair example to use with regard to DK.
[ Parent ]
Grayson is a perfect example...
I lean hard left, my co-worker leans right, and we both love SSP.  Those open weekend questions like "If you could choose 1 D and 1 R CongressCritter to be a loser on Election night 2010, who would they be?" would get great responses.  But something tells me that the majority of us that chose Grayson would suddenly be in the minority... None of we Democrats here ever picked a fight with a Conservative, but I see that happen all the time at kos.  I also thought it was pretty telling that the DK editor here didn't really say anything about the Republicans being welcome.  I just fear an echo chamber.  My co-worker will most definitely not move over.  I hate his politics, but he knows tons of technical, in the weeds political stuff, often that I've stolen from him and posted here!  
[ Parent ]
This has been my favorite political website.
One of the reasons I liked SSP so much was because of the contrast that it has with DailyKos and other such websites. The culture here is quite appealing, as is the sophisticated analysis. Looking at endless maps of the redistricting of California, for instance, or following obscure state races nobody "sane" cares about.

It is something that I will miss.

I will also miss the respectful, polite atmosphere here. On too many political websites individuals resort to name-calling and personal insults instead of respectful discussion in which moderate viewpoints are taken seriously.

This happens often at DailyKos. For instance, I used to post diaries frequently on DailyKos. I would often self-censor myself, in an effort to not rile up the community.

But I still found that often I would post a diary that disagreed with one particular aspect of the DailyKos accepted opinion. I would then meet with angry outrage, much to my surprise.

For instance, I once posted a diary arguing that Hugo Chavez and similarly aligned leaders in Latin America hadn't helped the poor there. People there took umbrage to that suggestion; one comment, which received more "Tips" than the diary, started out by saying, "How fucking stupid do you think we are?" I hadn't known that people at DailyKos were such big fans of Daniel Ortega and Hugo Chavez.

I know better now.

At another time I posted a diary advocating a "No" vote on Proposition 21 (funding parks through a car tax). This I expected to be something people would find very boring, with not much response. Instead, there was a massive amount of comments articulating disgust with the very thought of opposing state parks. It almost resembled an online lynch mob.

I was quite out of my element (and actually somewhat frightened by the response to the Proposition 21 post).

I will still follow and post diaries on the SSP community, whatever it turns out to be. But I have to say that, although I understand the financial motives behind it, I am quite disappointed in this move.

http://mypolitikal.com/

A little change, a little the same
While I can't say I'm thrilled that we'll be joining DK, I'm thrilled for David.

I did manage to get my same username/id on DK as on here, so at least some things aren't going to change.

I'm coming around to it after initially losing my will to live.
It may be a huge challenge dealing with Kossacks who want to use this smaller satellite blog as a platform for their non-horserace ideas.  People's ideas (and sometimes good ones) can really get lost in the crowd there.  There may be a natural urge to seek a smaller audience, and probably a lack of full appreciation for how seriously the mods here take staying on topic.  I imagine the election site will be able to suspend and ban people without them being banned from Kos as a whole.  Going to be a tough balance to keep things on topic without alienating potential swingnuts.

However, more DavidNYC = win.
Arjun and Steve = win.
Exposure to more potential swingnuts = win.

34, WM, Democrat, FL-11

Thanks for taking the time to reconsider
And I appreciate your willingness to give this a shot.
[ Parent ]
What a conservative lot we are
Maybe that is part of the problem! But seriously, we should never fear change. That is what we are really all about. Congrats to David. I should have said that last night.
To HIM - undoubtely)))
But here we mostly speak about "us"))))
[ Parent ]
I'm happy for you guys
but I don't have much hope that this will be a positive change from a commentator's point of view. Maybe the site will stay secluded from the main DK, but if not, you're going to see a flood of comments (it's already a chore sometimes to read through 100-200 comments on a thread posted while I was in bed), and DK often has three or four times that. And the whole issue of the average DK user being far removed from the average SSP user has already been brought up by many people. I'll give it a chance, but I won't be surprised if I have to just give up trying to comment on this blog and just become a passive reader.
Name
Is it possible at all to keep the URL SSP instead of elections dkos or whatever?  I know my work blocks Dkos, as I'm sure a lot of places do, but don't block SSP.  I would like to be able to still read at work on lunch if possible.

29/D/Male/NY-01
That's unfortunate
About your work blocking DK. I don't think that we'll be able to keep the URL going in parallel, but maybe we can figure out some workarounds for people in your situation. For example, have you ever tried this?

http://peacefire.org/bypass/Pr...

[ Parent ]
As my old tae kwon do teacher said,
"Congroolation!"
Heheh
Thanks!
[ Parent ]
Congrats!
I'm not a frequent poster here, but I read the site 2-3 times a day. SSP and Balloon Juice are the only political blogs I read anymore, so this will be the first use my 4 digit DK ID has gotten in some time.

I won't rehash what everyone else has said here, except to say that I do hope some of the conservative posters stick around. I'm as liberal as they come, but I love how this is the one site I can come to and read comments from smart, reasonable conservatives (they do exist, it turns out!)

However, as long as some form of SSP Daily Digest continues, I'll be reading!

33, male, Dem, OH-13

Thanks
I can GUARANTEE that the Daily Digest is not going anywhere! It's become a vital mainstay of this site, and it's a keeper, for sure.
[ Parent ]
Had a night to think about it and here is what I got.
David James and all the guys have worked very hard for what I assume is no pay or at least not enough. They don't ask for thanks and they do not get nearly as much as they should. I will say this, I am hesitant at best of this new move but we owe them a chance. They have worked hard for our enjoyment for years the least we can do is give them a chance on this move. I predict a rough start but give it at least a few months, if we all stick together than I think we can make the transition well.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
Agree with this
I don't know how to feel about DKos because I almost never go there, and I'm definitely not happy about losing some of our good Republican contributors. But what's important is that we give the benefit of the doubt and understand how much easier this makes DavidNYC's life.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/
[ Parent ]
Thank you

[ Parent ]
Seriously
I want to give a big big thanks to DavidNYC, all the other frontpagers/editors, and commenters. You've made something great, and let's all try to keep it up over at the new site.

Also, I really hope we get to keep some tinge of the green color on that new site (literally and figuratively).

überliberal Democrat, male, OH-12 (college), NJ-09 ("home"), Mets, Jets

[ Parent ]
Thank you
And I like the way you've framed it - there's no reason why orange has to drown out green. We can definitely import some green into the orange. :)
[ Parent ]
Blast!
There is a hoosierdem already registered at kos. I now have a registered account under drhoosierdem.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  
[ Parent ]
That's going to get <i>really</i> confusing
I hope that hoosierdem doesn't come over and post on this site now.

Male, VA-08
[ Parent ]
This is basically what I was trying to say
Except I was falling asleep at the time and couldn't remember what point I was trying to make.  

Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09
[ Parent ]
As a DailyKos member
I'll definitely give them a chance! Only time will tell how this kind of site will work there. But I will note patlak's comment:

I also thought it was pretty telling that the DK editor here didn't really say anything about the Republicans being welcome.


"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Thank you, Hoosierdem
I really appreciate that you took some time to think things over, and I'm very grateful for the trust you're placing in us.
[ Parent ]
my biggest problem with this is reputation
Even if we somehow miraculously manage to keep our Republican/Indie contributors, I'm worried that anyone to the right of Cynthia McKinney would not feel comfortable with the Kos brand and might not even give the site a chance. At least "Swing State Project" always sounded ambiguous enough.

I mean, I visit Daily Kos a lot, but I never contribute anything or make any comments, because it just doesn't feel worth it to comment over there (and this is coming from someone who's pretty damn liberal). I'm worried that everyone who has had this experience (or has heard about it) will be scared away.

21, Male, Democrat, MD-02 (home/registered), MD-05 (college)

Bingo
I';m very worried about this as well. Daily Kos has an extremely bad reputation outside of selected progressive circles, and while the bizarre and totally unfair "Nazi/KKK baiting" started by BillO plays a role in that, it is not entirely unearned bad image. No matter what content the front-page contributors are posting, SSP/DKE's image is gong to go from thoughful political reporting and analysis with a leftward skew to left-wing spin doctors. SSP's use as a source in conservative and non-partisan circles will likely diminish quite a bit.

I also worry when I see so many people harping for Marcy Winograd in a thread about Debra Bowen. CA-36 should be one of the easy ones for them: a chance to replace a casually corrupt ConservaDem with one of two outstanding, competent progressives (by which I mean Bowen and Hahn), and that the impulse for some is to find our Bachmann instead of put an awesome progressive woman on the fast-track to becoming a Senator is pretty worrisome. And of course we know that most of the races aren't that easy; how many more people are going to wander off into fantasy land then?

I understand why this is happening and I congratulate David and co. for moving on up with this outstanding opportunity. The great quantity and quality of content will be a great boon for the community. We'll just have to see how it ends up balancing out.

Also, I once swore that I would never get a Daily Kos account. Never say never I guess.

22, Democrat, AZ-01
Peace. Love. Gabby.

[ Parent ]
You mean this kind of shit?
Well, sheesh. (3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:jj32, Red Sox, CaliSista
Winograd doesn't believe the President should be renominated.  

by Adam B on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:37:20 PM PST

[ Parent ]

And neither do I... (4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:neroden, Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle, South Park Democrat, happenstance
...if he is going to continue his current policies of war and empire.

As such, Marcy's principled stance on this issue is a major plus, and will strongly incentivize me to support her with $$ and hours should she run again, just as I did the previous two times she ran.

Marcy, if you're in, I'm in.

Patrick Meighan
Culver City, CA

by patsburgh on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 01:55:29 PM PST

[ Parent ]  

[ Parent ]
And this
The anti-Winograd spirit around here (1+ / 0-)
Recommended by:neroden
is fascinating.

A real, dyed in the wool, anti-war progressive near-leftist who has primaried Harman twice and managed to increase her share of votes is obviously not welcome by some Kossacks who would prefer almost anyone else in the seat Harman is vacating.

Of course we don't know yet whether Winograd will run for the seat, but if she does, will she get any support from internet "progressives"?

--felix

by felix19 on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 03:23:23 PM PST

Lot of Obama fanatics. (0+ / 0-)
shrug.  Not surprised really.

Read pp. 1-7 of Krugman's The Great Unraveling (available from Google Books). NOW.

by neroden on Mon Feb 07, 2011 at 10:49:12 PM PST

[ Parent ]

A part of me is looking forward to taking these bozos on.

[ Parent ]
Obama
fanatics? Jesus Christ never thought I would hear that on Daily Kos.  

19, Male, Independent, CA-12
[ Parent ]
"Obamabot" is the more common label I believe
It basically refers to anybody that tries to defend the president or has a different explanation for things.
[ Parent ]
It's more likely than you think


Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09
[ Parent ]
Yeah, that hot mess
I mean, just remember times when the board has been split in a fierce but substantive way during a primary--Virginia Gov 2009 is the first thing that comes to mind for some reason. There were ways in which that field could have been split-up in a liberal to conservative fashion, and some of the disagreement concerned that split, but the core of the conversation concerned which candidate was best positioned to win the general (I mean, none of them in hindsight, but bear with me). When political spectrum issues came up, they were largely related to whose politics can best appeal to the electorate, and disagreements along these lines had more to do with which groups a commenter thought were more essential to the operation than the commenter's personal politics.

So imagine that, but with a cadre of commenters uninterested in or unable to view the race outside of a sharply political lens. I can see why part of you is interested in educating the "bozos," but that will certainly alter the experience of being part of the SSP community in a rather dramatic way.

22, Democrat, AZ-01
Peace. Love. Gabby.

[ Parent ]
Seems like a great idea
I trust Dave and the mods to keep the partisan debates out of it, like they always do. I'm sure Markos and Dave have talked about it extensively. Everyone who says that it will be diluted by mindless comments, I don't think I could disagree more.

There are a lot of obscure elections (mayors, county commissions etc.) that are barely covered here, and  I feel that with the addition of more people from dkos that are interested in horserace politics that we will get more coverage. People who care about ideology will find us boring and stick to commenting on the main dkos page.

Not to mention the resource advantage of moving to dkos.

TL;DR - Dave and co. have been good mods and kept out the ideology, they wont stop now. I only see positives coming out of this.

21, Male, Gay, Dem, Born: AR-04 ;  Current Residence: FL-02

Thanks
Your support means a lot.
[ Parent ]
My ideal
Because of the ability for small group formation within the vast Daily Kos community, I could see very, very targeted and specialized groups forming to follow the far-down-the-ticket races. They may end up forming regionally (by town or county). They may form office-wise (a specialized blog on small town mayoral races). They may form as a hybrid (city council races in upstate New York).

With all these possibilities for formation, my ideal would be that the new SSP/DKE would also help curate and discuss posts from these lower profile races and groups. The tools at the new site will allow for republishing material from other group blogs or users (with the "republisher" able to add a note about why this post is significant and worthy of republication and wider discussion).

And because of the ability to follow tags and authors and group blogs more easily, I'm hoping these sort of aggregation/curation posts will be simpler to compile and analyze, with new and interesting content easier to find.

As always happen when you introduce new tools, users also end up using them in creative and productive ways you never dreamed of, so I'm prepared to be surprised too.

[ Parent ]
That sounds awesome.
Because of the ability for small group formation within the vast Daily Kos community, I could see very, very targeted and specialized groups forming to follow the far-down-the-ticket races. They may end up forming regionally (by town or county). They may form office-wise (a specialized blog on small town mayoral races). They may form as a hybrid (city council races in upstate New York).

That sort of specialization is going to be a huge plus for people like me who want to learn more about the political leanings and results of various areas because it's valuable to know things in general but also because it's easier to then make a connection to a larger race.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Exactly!
These deep down-ticket races will be covered a lot more with the addition of new people. I don't think a lot of people see the potential of how far this community can go now with more resources and more interested folks.

21, Male, Gay, Dem, Born: AR-04 ;  Current Residence: FL-02
[ Parent ]
Thank you, shocky

[ Parent ]
Thank you, shocky

[ Parent ]
At the risk of exposing myself as a huge dork, I will
send you to this link, because I think the lyrics sum it up pretty well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Anyway, I've thrown a few tough comments at Daily Kos, but I understand the valuable purpose it serves. It's a significant presence for Democrats and liberals, for better or worse, and anything associated with it will become more prominent. Considering how awesome this site is, that's big plus for anybody looking for smart, sane, up-to-date coverage of elections. So, to sum it up with yet another link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

Uh-oh
I was banned at Kos.

It wasn't even something I wrote; I uprated a series of comments speculating on whether Ann Coulter had undergone gender-reassignment surgery. Yeah, I know, it's a stupid thing to be banned over.

I can't disagree with your last sentence!

[ Parent ]
Send an email to DavidNYC
He's on vacation now and won't be able to reply for a few days, but if anyone can sort this out, he can.
[ Parent ]
Yeah
Just email me.
[ Parent ]
I'm a bit late to the party, but here goes...
First off, congrats.  You all do great work, and knowing that you'll have a chance to expand and grow is definitely positive.

I do not comment here often, but I read everything just about daily.  I enjoy the dicussion in this place and have learned a lot.  I've been here or a long time (user: 99).

I'm a bit apprehensive.  Not because I don't like Kos.  I do.  I'm there daily as well.  (user name: AUBoy2007)  But it is such a different site with a different crowd, and I worry about what may happen.

But I will follow this blog whereever it goes and in whatever itteration it takes.  I enjoy it too much.

Very kind of you to say
Thanks for reading us and sticking with us through all these years. All I can say is that we'll fight hard to carve out our own special community at Daily Kos. I'm hopeful that the new platform will be conducive to "keeping SSP SSP".
[ Parent ]
I'm sure it will be fine
As far as I know, you are all pretty good with Markos... I don't think he would just ignore you guys if we came to you with complaints on the new site. Just as long as he makes it a big front page thing about the rules for the SSP section of dkos, and how its non-political, I don't think there will be many problems.

I'm pretty sure you guys (the mods) like this site as much as we all do and appreciate the content, and considering the work you;ve done for years I'm pretty confident you guys know what youre doing here with moving the site to dkos.

It'll all work out and everyone will love it. Don't worry! Just keep the daily digest haha.

21, Male, Gay, Dem, Born: AR-04 ;  Current Residence: FL-02

[ Parent ]
Thank you
I know you've been with us forever, and I'm really grateful for your kind words and support.
[ Parent ]
Kudos, Dave!
This is exciting news--for you and for the site.
Thanks!

[ Parent ]
Note to all Swingnuts
DavidNYC is off for a very well-earned vacation and won't be back online for the rest of the week. When I have some free time, I'll attempt to answer your questions as best as I can. Gotta run to class now.

Thanks for your comments and especially your support.

Yeah, I'm sure
I bet you're really all going off to sip Dom Perignon out of crystal goblets with Markos on his private yacht.
[ Parent ]
LOL!!


NY-14, DC-AL (college) Distraught Mets fan
[ Parent ]
Correction:
They are cruising on Rupert Murdoch's yacht.

It's all coming together, you see. The Daily Beast merges with Newsweek. Tina Fey has her first essay in The New Yorker. "American Idol" moves to Wednesdays and Thursdays. Aol buys The Huffington Post. Keith Olbermann becomes the content head and a host of a show on Current TV. Eventually, they will merge into some sort of big conglomerate, which will be bought out by Fox. If you can't see the connections, I don't know how to help you.

This was all predicted, of course, when CNNBCBS (a division of ABC) formed on "The Simpsons."

http://metalhead.wrzuta.pl/fil...

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
does DavidNYC's vacation mean
further delays to SSP's new Senate Race Ratings?
Agh, the suspense...
[ Parent ]
This is not a criticism
but I used to go to 538 multiple times a day, now it's once a week at best.

32, M, MI-6, Iconoclastic Leftist
Isn't that site updated
far less since it's not a major election season?

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?
[ Parent ]
I never read the comments before or now
So I haven't noticed any change.
[ Parent ]
same here
and not reading the comments anymore, just to many ny-times readers now.
[ Parent ]
So I join everyone in congratulating David, James and the rest of the SSP team
Obviously, this is a great move for them, and as MassGOP points out, it's good for political blogging in general that more people like David area allowed to blog full-time. I share the apprehension of some of the posters (I wonder what's going to happen the first time I or someone else questions supporting Alan Grayson), but at the same time I trust the judgment of David and James L. and fully intend to give the new site a chance, even to the point of registering for a DKos password.

Beyond that, there's something else I was thinking about all of this. Change is just a fact of life, and especially on the net, things move very quickly (another poster mentioned Open Left is now done, which was a suprise to me). Hopefully David and James will be able to run the new site in the same professional way they run this one, but the announcement of MassGOP, for one, that he probably won't be posting on the new site does suggest some good people are going away with this move.

So if things do change, that's just the way it is, and bad things happen despite the best intentions of people. All of this is leading up to me thanking David, and James, and Crisitunity, and Jeff and all of the various posters for giving me two very enjoyable years on Swing State. This is the only blog I've ever posted on, and it really is an amazing site for political junkies - truly one of the only refuges from the political posturing and harsh tones of other political sites. I really love the intellectual give and take, where, for example, myself and user b.j. can have a respectful discussion about whether Dems should contest Texas. I hope that doesn't get lost, but if it does, I'll still have some great memories from this site and I feel like owe David and James and the rest of the management and posters at SSP for making that happen.

So, thanks, guys and gals!  

Amen! n/t


"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Wow, really touched
Thank you.
[ Parent ]
Let me throw my hat in with the "cautiously optimistic" crowd
As many others have said, I do have doubts about how this will work out, with many users on dkos who won't back anyone to the left of Bernie Sanders and who quite frankly may not know as much about the nerdy details of politics and redistricting as we do. I do also have mixed feelings about the readership of this blog increasing. On one hand, I think that many of the topics discussed here definitely need to be exposed to a wider audience, but OTOH I have kind of enjoyed how the small audience here has allowed me to really get to know a little something about who each of the people who are posting here are and what areas they know the most about. I am definitely excited for all you guys and I know that this is a huge opportunity for you. I'm also happy to know that DavidNYC will be managing things like the OtB list polling operations at dkos, because I know he will manage those well. Overall, you guys have been very good at paying attention to the community here, and I am cautiously hopeful that you are taking the reservations I and others have expressed into account and doing everything possible to keep everything that we have loved at SSP intact at Dkos Elections.

Male, VA-08
Thank you
I appreciate it.
[ Parent ]
Congratulations even though it does make me nervous.
Certainly for the folks who run this site this is good news.  You have a lot of exciting resources at your disposal.  Being able to do your own polling is just simply awsome.

On the other hand my nervousness with Dailykos isn't that it leans left.  After all most of us do.  And there are pragmatists there even if those way on left field tend to be by far the loudest.

It's a matter of size.  This site is in the goldilocks zone.  It's big enough to be active and generate a lot of activity but small enough that it isn't a zoo.  By that I mean small enough that people can get to know each other and a tone can be set gently without an overly heavy hand.

It makes far easier for people to be congenial, good natured, and respectful.  We can get a few things wrong, correct each other, and laugh about it because we're not scraping for space or trying to prove something in a big pond.

That will be harder with dailykos since well being "Dailykos Elections" will no just mean we're a subsite.  But in the 2012 Presidential election season perhaps THE hob of dailykos activity since I have a hunch some folks on dailykos will be interested in elections.

But I do trust you guys and respect what you've done and know you'll do a great job with it.

NY-13, Democrat. Blog @ http://infinitefunction.wordpr...

Thanks
I'm really grateful.
[ Parent ]
A diary I'll probably post on DK on the subject
http://www.swingstateproject.c...

Even though it'll cycle through the list too quick, I'm aiming to post it at about 6pm Pacific time.

Comment invited.

Update, I'll probably wait a few days
aiming for the day the merger discussion hits the FP of DK.
[ Parent ]
Marker reply by me......
I haven't read it yet, tietack, but want to be able to find it easily when I have time later and so am posting this reply as a marker to get me back to it.

We're going to need you over there, you better damn well come over!  :-)

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
The usual mixed feelings.
Obviously, it's good for David. I understand that blogs don't just spontaneously run on magic and pixie dust. Maybe it's BECAUSE I understand this that I know I don't belong on DK, where people are still trying to get Keith Olbermann to run for Senate in spite of a perfectly good and more effective progressive already being in the race. Too much of DK has tunnel vision, including Kos himself (see also: Jon Tester rant over ONE lousy vote, when he probably had very good political reasons for doing so - including but not limited to pissing off Kos).

I think integrating this community into DK's is going to be a BIG problem. It's not just ideological - it's demographic. This community is overwhelmingly younger males (with a few younger women thrown in), while DK is overwhelmingly graying ex-hippies gasping to remain relevant in a Web 2.0 world, and with very specific prejudices against our generation in particular for not doing things "their" way, even though "their" way was proven wrong decades ago. I stopped reading DK comments after a generational flamewar back in October really just made me so angry I couldn't think straight. The generational issue is one that is sure to be a major flash point if you try to integrate the two. Throw in some simmering social class issues on both sides and stir until explosive.

DK also tends to be very self-righteous about their activism, as though people who go to protests and phonebank are somehow better than armchair strategists like us - even though many SSPers have worked for or do work for campaigns. This is a community of thinkers, theirs is a community of activists. Those perceptions are going to be hard to shake, especially when you try to enforce things like the "no talking about issues" rule. Get used to being called a fascist on a regular basis.

I understand that this is a great opportunity for David, but I can't help but feel like the whole situation is going to end up screwing a lot of SSP's more meta-averse commenters in the end. A worrisome trend in the comments to date is that neither the moderators at SSP nor the moderators at DK seem to be able to distinguish between the behavior of DK's moderators and DK's rank and file. DK's moderators are fine people who I rarely disagree with, and it's only because of them that DK exists at all. DK's rank and file are mostly neurotic, judgmental, and would just as soon dump all over anyone with a slightly different point of view. It's the difference between reasoned political discussion and knee-jerk emotion, at least in my experience. I can see that I'm far from being alone here. Take away the few frontpagers on DK and you'd have nothing more than a seething mass of liberal angst with a grudge against 90% of America for being different from them.

I can't help but feel like the moderators of both sites are being overly flippant toward these concerns, such as treating the "will we be able to support Jon Tester" comment as snark. There exists a legitimate concern that Kos himself, as prone to intemperate rants as he is, isn't a great example for liberals in general, and that most of his followers are even worse. It's like the DK leadership is still "reality based" about everything except themselves and doesn't want to admit just how ideological the site's readership as a whole has become since Bush, that universal liberal bogeyman, left office. It's understandable - no one wants to look critically at themselves - but it's also not going to result in a great experience for a lot of the SSPers with critical thinking skills.

With that said, there are some good contributors to both sites, or I wouldn't read 'em. I still read DK several times daily, but only the FPers and the occasional diary on the reclist by the saner contributors. I'll do the same for SSP-DK. However, I can't help but feel like there are too many differences between the two communities for this to not be a disaster. Don't expect to see me around once you make the switch.  

Oh well. I've been looking for an excuse to stop commenting here for professional reasons anyway.  

The difference is over tactics and strategy
I don't know if that void can be bridged but I'm willing to try.
[ Parent ]
My issue with Kos
This is ultimately just my opinion, but my issue with Markos, which led me to abandon his site 7 years ago, is what I view as his refusal to take full responsibility for his role. In other words, when it suits his purposes, he'll resort to the 'this is my blog and I can say whatever the hell I want' defense, or he'll take the 'it's just my own opinion' copout. In short (and again, in my view) he fails to take true responsibility for the influence that he has rightfully achieved.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's beyond impressive how Markos has leveraged dKos into an integral force on the left. I also think the site plays a key part in galvanizing and projecting the progressive left. As someone who was part of the discussions that led to the creation of the site way back when, I know none of us envisioned what it would become. But, to go with the trite cliche, with great freedom comes great responsibility and the underlying reason why I parted ways with dKos was because in my view he refused to accept the latter while essentially abusing the former. And, so far as that goes, he has molded the site largely in his image. That's his right of course, since it is ultimately his site, but that doesn't mean it's right for me.

So, that's how I see things. I have no problem in principle to moving (back) under the dKos umbrella so long as this sub-site keeps its distinctive character. But, the fact of the matter is that if I wanted to participate at dKos I would be there, not here. This is probably true for many that post or lurk here. It's not as if I don't have the URL well in hand. If the tone that has long been set at dKos transfers over to SSP, then I think it will obviously extinguish what makes this site worthy.

Just my 2 cents.

[ Parent ]
It's funny, I see the activism issue just
the other way round. I despise the arm-chair strategism on DailyKos. People like Seneca Doane, who tried to rally the Kos community and remake it into a task force for Special Election phonebanking, were mostly ignored, while the site drowned in endless meta wars.

Here, we just discuss politics, but as knowledgeable as most posters are, I'd be surprised if not a majority of posters here had experience working for campaigns- and I don't just mean doing phone calls which is good, but really just the handywork. I personally am just 18, but last cycle I managed the GOTV targeting of a key essential State Senate race which we won by 4 votes, and I plan to work on the Tester campaign this cycle, and to be somewhat involved with redistricting in Montana (yes, of course, it's an at-large Congressional seat- but there's legislature boundaries).

I'm sure that lots of other commenters here could tell similar stories, for example, when notpjorourke tells stories about the many, many politicians he knows or has met, I'm always thinking that his real name would probably turn up as a pretty professional political advisor or field director or such on Google.


18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

[ Parent ]
good point
I like the line about arm-chair strategists.

22, male, VA-10
[ Parent ]
Been a fan of SSP for quite some time
I am really glad to read that SSP is moving up in the world.  I thoroughly enjoy the site, and I am looking forward to the new incarnation at DK (which I regularly read anyways).
Thank you

[ Parent ]
Repeated question about SSP diaries
What about the user diaries from SSP contributors?

"And we aren't going to be swallowed up by Daily Kos - we'll be our own sub-site, which you'll probably access by going to http://elections.dailykos.com.  That address will feature only horserace content posted by the SSP writers (plus Arjun and Steve) - in other words, it'll look almost exactly like what the site looks like right now."

What about the user diaries?

Certainly, this works well for the contributing editors (and those who follow them), but short of an editor promoting a diary, or for the creation of a group, how easy is it going to be to follow SSP diaries when transitioned to DK? The group section in the beta version is fine, to an extent, but it means additional clicks to find abgin's latest redistricting diary if I wasn't there when it was posted. (Yes, I know I could follow an author's work, but it still is not right there for me to spot).

Are our diaries on DK going to remain unique (is there going to be a elections.dailykos recent diary list that is distinct from the other diary lists) - or are they going to be mixed up with everything else?

The answer to this is...
...that, unfortunately, I'm really not sure. I do know, however, that user diaries are a very important part of this site and we'd like to highlight them and keep them accessible on DKE. Our move to the Daily Kos platform isn't happening right away, so there's plenty of time to make sure that this aspect is taken care of.
[ Parent ]
The user diaries on SSP are mainly why I keep coming here
Please make sure that SSP user diaries don't get overwhelmed by DK issue based diaries. I think separate lists would probably be the only way to make that possible - not sure if that's doable, but I think it would be essential to prevent losing people in the transition.

22, male, VA-10
[ Parent ]
It's important to remember
That we're going to have our own sub-site -- we're not intermingling with the front page of Daily Kos (except when they choose to "promote" certain DKE pieces to the front page). I'm not sure what it will LOOK like exactly, but I feel pretty confident in saying that main Dkos diaries will not be listed in the sidebar.
[ Parent ]
Great
Thanks and congrats again!

22, male, VA-10
[ Parent ]
That's a really good point
It will be a real loss for SSP if we can't maintain a separate recent diary list.  
[ Parent ]
This is how Markos explained things to me
Regarding user diaries:

"We'll soon allow groups to post diaries on the sidebar by using a tag, much like Twitter uses tags to categorize stuff, like #tcot."

Obviously, that's just a thumbnail sketch, but basically I think it's going to be simple - if you aren't an FPer at DKE, the way you make sure your diary shows up in the DKE sidebar will be to include a particular tag. Not exactly sure what that tag will be, but we'll get it worked out. And we'll be sure to explain this entire process in detail.

[ Parent ]
LIke many other people, I'm not sure about this.
Even with all the support posted.

One thing I definitely liked about SSP was that this was independent of the (often not-particularly-fragrant) reputation of sites like DailyKos, which itself is often reviled among conservative circles and whose hosting may drive away not just some of the Republicans who post here but also the some of conservative Dems who are part of this community.

Congratulations to DavidNYC for getting this opportunity, in any case.

I will repeat another user's call for the new SSP subsite to get a separate userlist/banlist or something like that.  At least one person here has noted that defending conservative Democrats has gotten him/her strongly disapproved in the DailyKos community, and this is definitely a problem.

As for myself, I'm already registered at Red Racing Horses, and I guess eventually I'm going to have to get an account at DK as well.  (Perhaps it'll be like making sure to have both the Book of Exalted Deeds and the Book of Vile Darkness in my possession at the same time...)

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

Sorry, can't support this
I am not a fan of DailyKos - used to be, but too many weirdo types on it all the time, sob stories and not pure politics. I shudder to think how comments will be on SSP in the future. This site WAS good because despite political leanings, there was not too much passion injected into the posts -- it was just a straightforward site for analysis of political trends. I am worried it will get lost in the clutter that is DailyKos.  
I have a Kos account, but can't remember the details
Looks like I'll have to go through the process of retrieving it to keep up with SSP. I do think that SSP should keep it's own set of regulations and it's moderation.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.
Idea?
Have it hosted by Daily Kos's servers but keep the current url.  Would that work?

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01
Congratulations
I, like many others, am wary of DailyKos. I check over there a fair amount but only read the articles closely on occasion - and I definitely don't read the comments anymore. However, there is no question that this is a great move for the people who run this place, and without them, this site wouldn't exist. So I'm excited about the potential there and I trust the moderators will keep civil discourse there. I would even encourage the independents and Republicans on here to at least try it out. I'm hopeful that we can create a similar atmosphere on the new site.

24, male, Democrat, VA-06 (currently in Italy), went to school in VA-05
Thanks, Geoffrey

[ Parent ]
I understand why the move is being made....
... but like many others here I can't say that I am happy. I have posted occasionally on KOS and as someone who is more center than left I have not always felt welcome. I guess you can't stop progress though.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan
I thought this might be a nice addendum
A chat conversation when I told a SSP-reading friend that we're merging with DKos:

[10:38:25 PM] me: SSP merging with DKos
[10:38:30 PM] friend: ...
[10:38:37 PM] friend: No!!!
[10:38:49 PM] me: yeah
[10:38:51 PM] me: pretty terrible
[10:38:56 PM] friend: No No fucking no!

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

I made an account on Kos and
said this "I don't think that Heath is that bad. I think it is important that the party has people like him who can balance out Nancy Pelosi"I am already getting attacked for being a rush limabaugh right wing crazy  

TX-13,22,Dem
You're gonna get banned already
I was waiting until the new site got up and running before I went in and got yelled at. Guess you're getting a head start ;).

Male, VA-08
[ Parent ]
You might have been asking for it.
Why even bring it up? You know what they are like. Besides the fact that Heath is a bit of a douche and it's not like he has any power to "balance" Leader Pelosi.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)
[ Parent ]
Uh, you're not exactly going to get
universal agreement on that point here either.  
[ Parent ]
No, but the point could be made here,
and disagreement would be reasonable. Not the 'Redstate is over there, you fucking racist asshole' comments you're going to get at Kos.

I'd like to expand on what 'balance the party' means. If it means balancing the centre of the party, I don't necessarily want Heath Shuler there. If it's about running a diverse slate of candidates reaching from Nancy Pelosis in LA to Heath Shulers in Asheville, count me in.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

[ Parent ]
I just wanted to
see if things had changed since i first checked the site out. I can also agree that Heath is a little douchy. But Nancy Pelosi would not get elected in every district we need to get back to 218.  

TX-13,22,Dem
[ Parent ]
Things have changed
now there are a bunch of Swingnuts to back you up there!

Male, VA-08
[ Parent ]
You're kidding, right?
The man has undermined everything that the party stands for and is working hard to keep them in the minority as long as possible.

Name me one republican that publicly bashes their leadership for being too conservative and tries to undermine the GOP agenda in doing so?

That's why they win, and why we can't hold onto power 'cos of self-serving obnoxious fools like Heath Schuler who should be the #1 primary target this cycle.

[ Parent ]
Heath Shuler shouldn't be anybody's number one primary target.
You can't get anyone more liberal in it!!

Dan Lipinski and Steve Lynch should be the targets.

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
Exactly right
n/t

Male, VA-08
[ Parent ]
That's not the point...
His seat may need to be sacrificed for the better good.  A message must be sent to him and other blue dogs that their "independence" must be respectful, and they need to stop tearing the party down.

He is very vulnerable to a primary.  His 2010 primary challenger spent $0 and got over 40% of the vote.  If nothing else, he needs to get a little fear of the base in him.

[ Parent ]
That's how Allan Boyd lost
he responded too much to the base.

Jim Matheson, OTOH, did not respond in the same way, and survived.

Voluntarily sacrificing our House members only delays the day when we return to the majority in that chamber.

[ Parent ]
Matheson had to fight his primary...
...and respond to the base that he took for granted.  He won't do that again.

Some house members are toxic and don't deserve re-election.  Even Dan Boren, who's the worst conservadem out there, is preferable to Schuler 'cos Boren doesn't make an ass of himself in public.

Every time Schuler speaks, he drags down the Democratic brand, which ultimately hurts those conservadems he wants to help.  Not every conservadem deserves a primary.  Only a few.  Schuler is one of them.

[ Parent ]
Huh?
Boren has a picture of Dubya in his office.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!
[ Parent ]
Yes, I know, he's reprehensible...
And yet, you never see him in the headlines making waves. That's what makes his conservatism somewhat more tolerable than Schuler's grandstanding.
[ Parent ]
Shuler also had to fight in a primary
He won with, I believe, 62% of the vote. And the "that" that you think Matheson won't do again in a heavily Republican district is what, exactly? Especially considering what might happen in redistricting...

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
No seat should be sacrificed for the greater good.
Following your logic, you'd like to get rid of Mike Ross, I'm sure? Cause he makes an idiot of himself in public? Lose one of the last Democrats in Arkansas? Hamper Mark Pryor in the process of creating an all Republican delegation?

Shuler doesn't need to get a fear of the base in him. Have you been to western North Carolina? There is no base there. Besides the liberals in Asheville (where Shuler will win every time), its all really conservative Democrats.  

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
Plus
Shuler voted against repealing the Health Care Bill. He could of used the excuse of "My constituents hate Obamacare so I'll repeal it" or McIntyre's, "I voted against it three times so I'll vote to repeal it." But he didn't. Shuler took a huge political risk especially since Republicans control the redistricting process in NC now. I admit he's not the best Democrat when it comes to loyalty, but I would rather have Shuler than some Republican.

19, Male, Independent, CA-12
[ Parent ]
Well

You can give for sure the NC republicans will target him in the redistricting process.

Then, I'm not sure if we will see enough democrats in his future district for have a democratic primary.

[ Parent ]
Let me say this
I was a loyal reader at Daily Kos back in the MT days (2003-2004).  I eventually had a falling-out with a number of people there, and left in 2007.

With that said, I support this move.  Because what people need to understand is that SSP is not becoming part of DK3, it is  becoming part of DK4.  DK3 is a place I don't like because of its groupthink, bullying, and the like.  DK4 is something else -- it is a platform, like Blogspot or Wordpress.  It will have much more of a live-and-let-live atmosphere.  The bullies over there are going to focus on their stuff, and we can focus on ours.

I've always thought that Markos was a lot smarter than his community.  When he announced DK4, I felt vindicated in that assessment.  I think DK4 is going to be a good home for SSP -- it has better, safer, and more user-friendly software, it will give the site more exposure, and it will help to ensure its financial solvency.  Plus, David has been doing this for free for a long time, and it's nice to see him recognized for his efforts.  It'll be good to have Steve and especially Arjun on the FP, too.  The only thing I'm disappointed about is that James and Crisitunity, who do a lot of the work around here, aren't getting hired on as well.  (I actually enjoy their work even more than David's -- not a knock on David, of course.)

All in all, I think this is a very good thing for SSP, and I'll be pleased to stay with the site through the transition.

The Crolian Progressive: as great an adventure as ever I heard of...

Thank you for your kind words
And I think your observation about SSP becoming part of DK4, rather than DK3, is a critical insight. The analogy to Blogspot is a very good one.
[ Parent ]
a big black mark
on this community was the widespread disregard of polling in the runup to 2010. The pervasive misguided optimism was the most irritating this I can name about this place - and that's significant, given the minor size of the issue. DKos to me is a repulsive place, no room for disagreement or intelligent discussion. I'll give it a chance but I can't say I'm optimistic about it.
Nonsense
Everybody agreed things were bad. The debate was about how bad. And things were less bad in Senate and gubernatorial races than polls suggested.
[ Parent ]
i'll give you
that we did well to win Colorado, Nevada, and Delaware in the Senate. We had no right to win those. But people who thought a 40 seat loss in the house was likely were few and far between and those who did expect that were seen as overly pessimistic. As it turned out, the lambasted Tekzilla was the most right among us.
[ Parent ]
Not by the end
Most people, myself included, came to the resolution the House was gone around Labor Day. And until that point we were relying on the accuracy of Republican internals with a history of bias and inaccuracy. I think you are being far too harsh.
[ Parent ]
Much of the polling was bad
and all over the place, but asserting there was even a sliver of "misguided optimism" is 100% pure fantasy.
[ Parent ]
mixed feelings
Gotta admit after reading it this morning I felt like "oh no, if swingstateproject moves to kos, there will be no blog left to read daily" (writing my masters thesis, ssp has become the last of many blogs I read daily when I had more time to follow American politics). After thinking about it a while I figured that it would be the comments, without hardly ever commenting at all, that I will miss most: those civil, respectful and deeply knowledgeable discussions.

After thinking about it all day, I feel a lot more positive about it  now I registered at Dailykos, though I don't think I will start reading and commenting there, before ssp moves, but I think if the people here stick together and tell the new folks how discussions work here, there might just be a chance that there will be quite a few new people here but hopefully some that really enjoy discussing politics the swing state project way. The other thing I realized that if I want Swing State Project to stay as it is, some of the people like me, that frequently read and hardly ever comment, will need to start commenting. The more people from the "old" swingstateproject comment at the elections site at dailykos, the better the chance that the comments-section will stay as it is.

That's a good attitude
Right on, brother. We'll need people like you to take a leadership role -- leading by example, that is, of what our community is about and what we want it to continue to be.
[ Parent ]
Count me in too!


My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
[ Parent ]
I think
 If we all lead by example, perhaps we can tone down the far left comments from Kos users. On this site, we are pretty good at catching trolls and letting people know when comments get out of hand.  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  

[ Parent ]
Seconding what James said
I really appreciate these sentiments. And thanks for taking the time to really think things over.
[ Parent ]
Movin' On
The vitriol I've seen on Kos is enough to make the hardest lefty cringe. I don't associate myself with those who openly wish people dead. SSP is the only blog from a leftward point of view I ever cared for(I'm a center-right Democrat, though ideology has nothing to do with my blog reading). I don't mind associating myself with those who disagree with me on some things, so long as they keep it civil and don't make vitriolic attacks on other people. Love SSP to death, it's a great site, don't get me wrong, but when this deal is cemented in stone, I'm gone. Goodbye.

50, straight white male, Democrat(Dan Boren/Gene Taylor 2012!), AL-7(born in AL-5)
Sorry you feel that way.
However, our door will always be open. It might not be as bad as you think.
[ Parent ]
to those skeptical
I'm with you, I do not care for DK and I will be posting on the DK version none the less.  I'm not asking you to come with us, not because I don't want you, because I do, but rather, from the comments, your decision seems firm.  However, please lurk, maybe come back after a month or so and try commenting to see if the feared DK vitriol is there.  If not, then this is just a slight name change and greater resources.  This need not be like when they replaced Lowell on wings with that other guy, but like when Woody took over on cheers after the actor who played Coach died.  It's sad there was a change and how it happened, but maybe it's for the best.  

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.
This is a good attitude
I will add that if Swingnuts consider it a settled fact that Dkos Elections will be nothing like SSP, that becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy in a way because less old SSPers there means less people to carry over the unique culture of SSP to the new site. If a lot of SSPers don't come over to the new site, it will be easier for the ones who do to be overwhelmed be the vitriolic Dkos types. I know that I will be coming over despite the fact that I find many things on Dkos abhorrent, and I will be doing so in part to back up my fellow Swingnuts in the inevitable culture clashes that will ensue with this merger. If you don't like Dkos, fine, don't post anything on the main site, but at least come to the elections page.

Male, VA-08
[ Parent ]
Thanks, doug
I appreciate it. And I like the "Cheers" analogy!
[ Parent ]
I can honestly say that I've been spoiled...
SSP has been absolutely wonderful!  My initial thoughts were "if it isn't broken, don't fix it!"  But then I realized that David more than deserves this wonderful opportunity and that we will be in great hands with James, Crisitunity, and Jeff.

Since David has asked me to join, I will follow.  Anyone who has worked his heart out on this "labor of love" has earned my deep and unconditional respect.  I hope everyone will join in!

40, male, Democrat, NC-04

Thanks for the kind words
We're really glad to have you on board.
[ Parent ]
Okay, just registered!
I've read Daily Kos for awhile, and I do understand the reservations that others have shared regarding DK.  I respect that, but I really do encourage everyone to join in the fun.  SSP is my political family, and I want my family to stay intact as much as possible.

4 months ago my wife of 15+ years was involved in a serious horse accident that almost killed her...she had a major head injury and a broken leg.  To this day she can only walk with the aide of a walker.  I had to be a mother and father to my 10 year old daughter and I had little time to do anything else.  The one thing I did do almost everyday was to read the comments from SSP land.  All of you, from the most liberal of the Dems (Andgarden, I'm talking about you!) to the most conservative, mean so much to me.  

BTW, I'm changing my username to "Tarheelman1993".  I went by "Tarheeman1993" because my daughter couldn't say Tar Heel.  She can now, so I'll change with the times!

40, male, Democrat, NC-04

[ Parent ]
heh
"Most liberal" is relative. Just ask me about trade! (Or don't, because we don't do issues here).  
[ Parent ]
Thanks, man.
Really sorry to hear about your situation - hope that things are getting better for you and your family and continue to do so in the future.

Thanks for sticking with us in these times.

[ Parent ]
I wish the best to you and to your wife

I feel a little close to you about this.
[ Parent ]
Thanks, Jim
You've been a great friend to this site, and your support means a ton.
[ Parent ]
Probably already been said
One of the things I like most about SwingStateProject is the lack debate over policies and its purist pursuit of understanding and analyzing elections.  I really hope that doesn't get lost in the mix but if it does I'm sure there will be plenty of SSP people who will bring it up.
Absolutely
It's one of the things I like most about SSP, too! We will do everything we possibly can to preserve that.
[ Parent ]
Make the change you want to see
You can hide in closets of every kind to avoid confrontations in the turbulent waters of the mainstream, but that is where all positive change has to take place eventually, whether talking about all of society or even a niche like a website.

Being a larger website (assuming this occurs) will of course increase the amount of assholes, but that should only matter if the reason you read or write is merely to amuse yourself.  Obnoxious people, misguided people, unrealistic, nasty people... we still have to live on the same Earth as them and social change involves changing their minds or teaching them practical goals and personal tolerance.

Like other things, the only way for this change to be negative is if good people do nothing.

Dont forget
 Swing state used to have its trolls too. Remember anka, jsmith and the campaign manager for the PA-6 primary candidate.  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  

[ Parent ]
For Manan Trivedi? Really?
I didn't really read SSP that intensively back then, but I know the guy who produced Trivedi's ads IRL, so a bit surprised about that.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)
[ Parent ]
No, I think it was an opponent of Trivedi's
but I could be misremembering.

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.
[ Parent ]
Doug Pike's campaign manager.
I just found the diary after digging deep into the SSP Archives. http://www.swingstateproject.c...

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
[ Parent ]
Question
Will we have to create a new account when the new version of Daily Kos comes out?  

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26
If you already have an account on DailyKos, you'll be fine.
Otherwise, yes, you'll need to sign yourself up over there. We'll no longer be on the Soapblox platform, therefore the old user accounts will no longer be operative.
[ Parent ]
I'll definitely give it a try
Look, its clear most of us left DKos in disgust of the idiocy and rudeness of the commentators. But this site will be separate from the rest of the policy oriented site. If some trolls come over and start talking policy, the mods will boot them. If people start personally attacking, like was witnessed today in this diary: http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

I trust David, James, Crist, and Jeff to boot them.

If people start talking about how stupid it is for us to root for Heath Schuler and Mike Ross etc etc, we can make logical and solid arguments. We SSPers know our sh*t! This is our site, let's not leave, let's own this!


19, gay male, IL-7, MN 4 (college), Dem

Thanks, knickelbein

[ Parent ]
I'm a longtime lurker
and occasional commenter of both websites, and while I do understand the nervousness of some of us here, I honestly don't think the move will be that disruptive.  As has been mentioned, SSP will still exist in its own little corner of DK, and if self-moderating communities have thrived under the main section of dailykos, I dont think we'll have any problems doing the same in a sub-domain.
Thank you

[ Parent ]
Congrats Dave and SSP Team!
This is really big for y'all. I'm glad to see SSP moving on, while I'm sad at the same time. Its gonna be cool for SSP to have more direct interaction with PPP. I'm not sure if I'll be signing up on the Dkos/SSP, or if I'll even be welcome there (I'm sure thats been addressed somewhere, but I am not reading through 350 comments!) so I just want to say congrats again to David, I know this is a big move for him and thanks to the SSP Community for encouraging us with RRH. Good luck!  
If you don't post on the new site
you'll be greatly missed, but I plan to catch up with you at RRH.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Thanks
I appreciate it. And good luck to you as well!
[ Parent ]
And as far as I am concerned
Non-Democrats are welcome to participate on DK Elections under the same terms they participate here now. While this policy may nowadays seem to be honored more in the breach, DK has always welcomed Republicans and conservatives under these terms, and the FAQ still states as much.

But in fact, several prominent conservatives hung out at DK in the early days, including Red State founder Tacitus (Josh Trevino) and current Red State big Moe Lane, as well as ex-conservative John Cole. Obviously DK's stature and reputation have changed since 2002, but I don't see why Republicans here can't participate.

[ Parent ]
Was pleased to re-discover
after not opening my kos account for several years, that I already have the same handle there as I do here.  So you will be able to recognize me on the other side.

I've been quiet lately due to a recent job change and other obligations.  Hope to be able to contribute more by time this transition takes place.

34, WM, Democrat, FL-11

Great to hear it!
And good luck with your transitions. Hope to welcome you back to SSP/DKE full-time soon!
[ Parent ]
Awesome
David -- I've been heads down all week on getting Daves Redistricting updated and haven't even checked in till now (same on me). New DRA in a few days!

This is an exciting change, as is DK4. Congrats!

Thank you, Dave
Hopefully this will also mean some greater exposure for your truly awesome app!
[ Parent ]
Exciting News for the Swing State Project | 446 comments

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