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CO-Gov: Hickenlooper Dominates, SSP Moves to Lean Dem

by: Crisitunity

Wed Aug 11, 2010 at 3:04 PM EDT


Public Policy Polling (pdf) (8/7-8, Colorado voters):

John Hickenlooper (D): 50
Dan Maes (R): 38
Undecided: 12

John Hickenlooper (D): 48
Dan Maes (R): 23
Tom Tancredo (C): 22
Undecided: 7
(MoE: ±3.1%)

PPP's newest look at the Colorado gubernatorial race finds Denver mayor and Dem nominee John Hickenlooper in pole position, regardless of whether ex-Rep. Tom Tancredo follows through on his kamikaze mission to run on the Constitution Party line. With the GOP having chosen paranoid bike-hating very-very-small-businessman Dan Maes as their standard bearer, there's really no path to victory for them. (Not that Scott McInnis, mortally wounded by plagiarism scandal, would likely have fared any better. Although that's purely conjecture... I assume that PPP polled Hickenlooper/McInnis when they took this sample last week, since McInnis still had a decent shot of winning the primary, but they don't release those numbers today.) (Also, note that there are no trendlines from their May poll, as the idea that they'd have to be polling based on Maes, let alone Maes and Tancredo justifiably didn't occur to them.)

The favorable numbers tell most of the story: Hickenlooper is at 50/33 (including 47/30 among indies), extremely strong for any Dem gubernatorial candidate anywhere, while Maes and Tancredo are pretty widely reviled, at 23/38 and 27/50 respectively... and bear in mind that there's probably a lot of overlap in that one-quarter of the electorate, meaning that Maes and Tancredo are going to be competing over the few crazies who can tolerate them.

OK, OK, there is one way the Republicans can salvage this race, although that got a lot slimmer with Maes having won the primary rather than McInnis (who was a loyal enough solider that he might have dropped out). They can: 1) convince Maes, who's vowed to stay in, to drop out for someone more electable, 2) get someone like Jane Norton or Josh Penry (UPDATE: or self-funding ReMax founder Dave Liniger?) to take over, and 3) hope that the presence of a more electable Republican drives the rather, um, mercurial Tom Tancredo out of the race. It's at least imaginable, and I'm sure state party chair Dick Wadhams is already working the phone lines, but it's something of a triple bank shot for the GOP to hang their hopes on. As a result, Swing State Project is moving this race from Tossup to Lean Democratic.

UPDATE: PPP's Tom Jensen kindly shared with us the Scott McInnis numbers that they tested. Hickenlooper would have beaten McInnis 52-38 in a two-way, and 48-24-22 in a three-way, barely budging the numbers.

STILL ANOTHER UPDATE: A new Politico piece from Dave Catanese -- mostly focusing on McInnis having conceded to Maes and offering his support -- quotes Maes as saying that Wadhams "pledged to back whoever wins the primary and I believe him." Maes was also later quoted as saying "that rattlesnake pledged not to bite me, and I believe him."

Crisitunity :: CO-Gov: Hickenlooper Dominates, SSP Moves to Lean Dem
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Amusingly,
Tancredo entering the race appears to shift 2% of votes rightward from Hickenlooper to Maes (or into the undecided column) for some reason.

There are highly immigrant-hostile Dems
Tancredo might just pick up a few socially conservative working class union Democrats who have a narrow view of immigration and their employment prospects (NewMex9999??  I'm not saying you would, just that your points lead in this direction if taken far enough).  Now, I'm a part-time organizer, too, so don't get me wrong, but in my view unions are there not just for workers of a single nation but for the international working class.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]
I hinted at this yesterday
but Colorado is the wrong state for Tancredo.  He would fare much better somewhere else.

If the right situation came up (e.g. anti-union D candidate, worthless R candidate), I could see myself voting for a Tancredo as an independent if he was also anti-free trade.


[ Parent ]
Hickenlooper isn't
anti-union.  

[ Parent ]
I didn't say he was
I said if the Dem was anti-union, and the GOPer was worthless, then I could consider a vote for someone like Tancredo who as also anti-free trade.

[ Parent ]
Tancredo?
He's not anti-union? He's very anti-union. He rarely if ever votes for progressive economic legislation; and that includes things like minimum wage.  

[ Parent ]
Actually the 2% from Hickenlooper
are voters going to Tancredo, who also steals 15% from Maes and 5% from undecideds.  (I think I got the numbers right in my head, I just glanced and hit reply.)

[ Parent ]
I wonder
What the chances are of Maes dropping out? Can't the state party make a rule saying they can vote a candidate out if they feel there is need to? That might be a way out. Also, Wadham's top choice now seems to be ReMax founder Dave Linger. He has the plus of self-financing, which you almost need in a state with low contribution limits. His biggest negative is he won't have a volunteer base or organization in the state, which is Norton's biggest advantage, but the state party could probably fix that easily. http://www.denverpost.com/ci_1...

Maes won the official primary.
I don't think there's anything they can do, and they'd look like asses trying to blatantly oust the winner.

Best bet would be to try and talk him out, dangle a few of the usual plums, which could work; though Maes seems very ideologically invested in his candidacy, which is always a problem.


[ Parent ]
I would
Rather look like plain asses than dumbasses. I wonder if there is any job in the CO GOP they could give Maes that he couldn't fuck up?  

[ Parent ]
Surely they have a few sinecures
here and there that would serve to get a liability out of the way.

[ Parent ]
I've mentioned something similar to this but...
If the state party makes a move to disqualify someone who has won a majority of Republican votes, it would probably not only drive down turnout for the governor's race, but also for other races in the state. Think about it, the state party is basically telling a bunch of Republicans "we don't respect your decision".

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
also think of the message
to down ballot winning candidates if they could be f'd over like that. Wouldn't much help their candidate recruiting efforts in future cycles either.

[ Parent ]
Can Party organizations
Really nullify an election.  I know there are loopholes (New York's infamous nominating someone for judge forces them off the ballot) but to simply nullify an election without candidate consent seems like something the state or US constitution would forbid.

Even when Laughtenburg replace dTorricelli in NJ Torricelli had dropped out and was under federal invesitigation I think.  And that one still need a coupel fo court rulings to proceed.


[ Parent ]
If it wasn't done with Alvin Greene
it won't be done for Maes.

[ Parent ]
this race in a nutshell
"...as the idea that they'd have to be polling based on Maes, let alone Maes and Tancredo justifiably didn't occur to them."

Well done.


If there is one overarching theme of this election cycle
It's that republicans sure know how to fuck up massive gains to the point where it would be weak gains.  The democrats greatest asset this election is the the GOP is electing candidates to races that a not as radicleized republican would easily win, yet decide to tempt fate with ridiculous nominees.

I love it!

But CO-gov is the best one of all, first tancredo jumps in because he is completely and utterly full of himself, then maes wins the primary. I wish we had a CO-gov in every state.

20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)


Tell me about it!
I feel worse today than I did May 19th.  

[ Parent ]
Do you feel worse
than you did on March 21?

[ Parent ]
What primary happened March 21st?


[ Parent ]
None
Reconciliation passed the House that day.

[ Parent ]
Oh, right, sorry...
I'm too damn focused on elections!  

[ Parent ]
Yes
Then I didn't feel sad, sick, and disgusted. Then, I felt angry and disgusted.  

[ Parent ]
Tell us of your pain, spare us no details
By the way, two words:  Mark Critz  :)

[ Parent ]
I
felt the same way on October 16, 2002.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]
I sure do
that was my 20th birthday, 5 months later and I miss being a teenager, lol.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
CO-Gov
I see all sorts of races where this has been the case, with varying extenuating circumstances per each case.

MN-Gov: Emmer is WAY too conservative, and a fiery one at that for Minnesota. When Minnesota elects Republicans, it is moderates and ones that speak as moderates

NV-Sen: Angle is just about the only person that can't beat Reid.

GA-Gov: A former Washington insider with ethical issues a mile long is not the way to hold onto an otherwise safe-ish Governor's mansion.

IN-Sen: In any other year, a retread like Coats would get spanked for the things that he has done and said over the years. Sadly, even though the candidate is wrong, I don't see the Democrats pulling this one off.

FL-Sen: Had Crist been left alone to the Republican nomination, this race wouldn't even be worth talking about. Now it is a jumbled 3-way race which is toss-up at worst. Not only that, but if Crist wins, he could just as easily caucus with the DEMOCRATS

NH-Sen: If Ayotte ends up winning this primary, it's moot. But if Binnie or Lamontange pulls off the upset, Hodes will be at least even-odds with either one of them.

The list goes on, but I don't feel like typing that much.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
You digit my favorite one
KY-Sen:  there would be no way in hell Conway would win if Trey Grayson were on the ballot.  But I guess them KY primary GOP voters love them some crazy.

I only hope that AZ-Sen looks similar.  Maybe Hayworth can pull off a Sestak type victory.

20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)


[ Parent ]
Too late for Hayworth
That Hayworth ad would have been devastating, had Hayworth not done that infomercial which eliminated him as a viable candidate.

[ Parent ]
Kinda
I agree with all your points, except in NH-Sen, I actually think Binnie, who has lots of money and has been running as a moderate, might fare better than Ayotte at this point, who is running like it's her first election ever....oh wait, it is. Still, thank God for the crazy-ass Republican base, as they might just lose this cycle yet.

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.

[ Parent ]
not sure about IN
Coats seems unenthusiastic and has some baggage, but he's also 1-0 in Senate elections and didn't have any real ethical issues while in office. He may be more electable than Stutzman, who is much further right and seems flaky.

I think Toomey is much too conservative on economic issues for Pennsylvania. I expect his negatives to shoot way up once Sestak starts beating up on him.  

41, Ind, CA-05


[ Parent ]
The GOP can't get rid of Maes
And if they did manage to find a way to get him out or he stepped aside, the Tea Party would not be pleased, they'd see it as the establishment manipulating things and would run further to Tancredo's side.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.

The IL party bosses
somehow got our Dem Lt Gov. embarrassment primary election winner Scott Lee Cohen to withdraw just a few days later.

So it possibly can be done.
But it must have involved a lot of liquor and/or a lot of threats.


Well....
I'd be a lot more scared of Rahm Emanuel, Mayor Daley and the rest of the Illinois Democrats than Dick Wadhams and the Colorado Republicans. Plus, Scott Lee Cohen wasn't running to stop the UN's black helicopters from dropping bicycle bombs like Maes is. He's a man with a mission, not a politican-wannabe.

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.

[ Parent ]
It must not have stuck
Since Cohen came back to run as an Indie for Governor.

27, Democratic, IL-01

[ Parent ]
I must say I'm still shocked.
I never, never, never, never in a million years thought that McInnis would have suffered this much damage from his scandal.

I waited for a long time to say this to you
But...

I TOLD YOU SO!!! Ah, that felt good.

(Goes off to chuckle 'Wine track scandal indeed' to himself)


[ Parent ]
Kudos for the DGA
for its last minute buy against McInnis.  

Safe Dem
If Hick got caught in a meeting with his United Nations handlers, he'd still win.

They aren't calling it safe dem
Until we know for sure that Tancredo and Maes won't drop out. If they both do, and Norton or the ReMax guy replaces Maes, its back to a very, very slight Dem lean, only because of the chaos of the last month.  

[ Parent ]
I'm calling it Safe Dem
1.  There is no logic to Maes dropping out anymore than Emmer or Deal.  He ran for this, he won.

2.  Even if he dropped out, by far the most like Rep candidate would be Tom Tancredo.  It would be pointless to name anyone else as long as Tancredo was running, and just about the only candidate to meet Tommy Toonuts criteria is himself.  And Hickenlooper crushes Tancredo.

Yes, the race would fall back to only Likely Dem if Maes and Tancredo both dropped out and a viable candidate was named, but then Alvin Greene could drop out too.  This is an extremely unlikely possibility.


[ Parent ]
Emmer and Deal
Are credible candidates, Dan Maes isn't. Dan Maes has all kinds of problems. Tom Tancredo says he will drop out if Maes does. Tancredo would NOT be the Republican candidate. It would the ReMax guy or Jane Norton, both of whom would be very strong candidates.  

[ Parent ]
I don't think some random
rich businessman or a broke primary looser disliked by the conservative grassroots would be particularly frightening candidates to the personally wealthy and well-funded, successful Mayor of Denver John Hickenlooper, who was at no worse than a 50-50 shot at holding the seat against McInnis back when McInnis was the strongest candidate the Republicans could have put up other than Former gov Owens.

No matter what the case is Hickenlooper is the front-runner, and you can't believe that Maes will drop out. Or that Tancredo would step aside for a more moderate Republican like Jane Norton.  


[ Parent ]
Obviously maes is a credible candidate
in Maes head.  

Has there ever once even been a candidate who won a primary, then said "oh, I'm actually a nimrod so I'm dropping out despite having no scandal".

Anything is possible, but Maes dropping out makes no sense.  As for what Tancredo says now, lol.  Once he starts running, he's running, and he certainly would not drop out for a centrist whose views he dislikes.

Whatever, there is a fork in this one.


[ Parent ]
Tancredo
Would he know the replacement before he dropped out? If he wanted to, he could run to be the replacement candidate. And MAes does have a scandal.  

[ Parent ]
Wishful thinking
Even if the "Remax guy" replaces him the damage is done. I think lean D is appropriate as it is a little late to start a campaign from scratch plus Hickenlooper is fairly popular. This is a moot point though as I do not see Maes dropping out. If neither Maes nor Tancredo drop out I think we can agree to it being safe D. Honestly what I expect to happen is for Tancredo to drop out but not Maes, I honestly just do not see him doing it. Would you? I know I wouldn't, that is a chance of a lifetime to go from being an unknown to a political candidate. The state party can't force him out, I know you would love it but this is democracy, sucks don't it? The voters nominated him, they knew his faults, that is how it works you can't ignore the will of the voters like that. He won and only he can leave this race. If Alvin Greene is the Democratic nominee for Senate then Maes is the R nominee. Hasn't the Remax guy ran for something before? I am too lazy to google it but I think he lost in a Republican primary or something. Or was that the CarMax guy or some other ceo (No, I'm not think of the ceo of coors)?    

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]
The CEO of Coors
Is who your thinking of, Pete Coors. He lost the general election to Salazar in 2004, and beat Schaffer in the primary.  

[ Parent ]
No,
I'm not thinking of coors, I know it's not him. I am really not sure what I am thinking of, but I think I may have read about a CEO (no coors) who ran or at least thought about running for something in Colorado fairly recently.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]

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