Roy Moore

is running for Alabama Gov again.

---

by: jpo227 @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 12:48:15 PM CDT

Might be entertaining!

When you're considered too looney even for most Alabama Republicans, that should tell you something!

---

by: IndianaProgressive @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 13:16:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

GREAT

He primaried Riley in 2006 and got a respectable 33%, in an open race against second-tier leftovers, he has a good shot at being their nominee.  Sparks or Davis actually has a shot against him.

---

by: skaje @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 13:21:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A tough call

On the one hand, you're right that against him we'd actually have a shot to elect Sparks or Davis.  On the other hand, it means that this flippin' lunatic actually could be governor.

---

by: IndianaProgressive @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 13:34:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

As the Republican nominee

I'd say he would be favored. Being a right wing christian nutcase has never hurt any candidate in Alabama, so far as I'm aware.  

---

by: andgarden @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 13:41:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sparks yes Davis hell no

No way in hell is Alabama going to elect a black dude against any Repub opponent.  An open KKK leader like David Duke would beat Davis in Alabama.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 14:01:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

perhaps not,

considering the formula, Duke would bring up black turnout, say 98-2 for Davis, about 32% of the electorate, count in hispanics and other minorities t get to about 37% of the electorate, and then Davis would only have to get around maybe 30% of the white vote, not out of the question. I think you overestimate the appeal of outright racism. The only reason Duke won the white vote in Louisiana in 1991 is cause, one, it was 1991, a lot of the older voters then are dead and he tanked among younger white voters who rejected his hate filled message being booed off the stage several times at college appearances before mostly white students. Getting 30%, especially by trying to appeal to female voters, is a very low bar.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:08:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And it probably helped ...

... that he was running against Edwin Edwards.

---

by: IndianaProgressive @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:29:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually

Duke did worse against Edwin Edwards than he did against respected conservative Democratic senator Bennett Johnston.  Both Prez Bush Sr and Repub senator John Danforth openly endorsed Johnston in the race.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:11:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

People really underestimate

how popular Edwin Edwards was, but anyway, on Johnston, two things, one, Duke was not as, well, completely unhinged back then. I know several family members who voted for him and regret now that they see what an AstroTurf nutcase he is. That wasn't the David Duke who called Wolf Blitzer "part of the Jewish conspiracy" and gave political speeches against Israel with Ahmadinejhad. In fact, in the context of that time period he was not much different than many other white Southern candidates.

He wasn't running a campaign about segregating the blacks and yadda yadda, his campaign was very similar to the Southern Strategy many Republicans were using, pioneered by Lee Atwater. His campaign was more about feeding upon the resentment of white voters, especially those born pre-1940s, an electorate that has since shrank thankfully.

In any case the landscape has changed significantly since then and I could definitely see Davis having a chance against a political gadfly like Roy Moore who is not liked by the business wing of the AL-GOP, and definitely someone like Davis. Even Obama, with his more exotic name and origins which fit straight and easily into what the RNC needed to spread racial fear and hate against him through a spam-forwarding campaign, still got closer to 20% of the AL white vote. Davis is also a lot more local and conservative than Obama, and he certainly won't facing a ticket with as much appeal, especially if its Moore.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 20:03:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obama got 10% in Alabama

I doubt Davis can get 30% against anyone.

And David Duke got a majority of white voters against respected conservative Democratic incumbent senator Bennett Johnston as well.  And Louisiana is less racist than Alabama.  Duke would have done much better against any black opponent than he did against Johnston or Edwards.

Duke beats Davis by at least 53-47.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:10:29 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I wouldn't neccessarily that

People really underestimate who racist, one, North Louisiana voters are, then NO suburbs are, and finally, how racist the Cajuns are. They vote fairly Democratic on a local level, and tend to be pretty populist, but they are horrible racists, that's why Obama's flatline in the Cajun district did not suprise me.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 19:55:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I love Sparks, but I've warmed to Davis.

He polls well with whites and he's clearly smart and capable.  I hate how far to the right he leans on some things (I'm still pissed that he voted against the hate crimes bill, though both of Alabama's other congressional Dems did the same), but I think he can win this, especially considering the strange situation in Alabama where all the contenders for the governorship seem to be second or third tier candidates.

That said, if Shelby's popularity slips any lower, maybe we can talk Sparks into jumping into that race.  It may be a long shot, but here's to hoping.

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

---

by: ARDem @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:27:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Don't kid yourself

good ole Alabama whites ain't gonna vote for a darkie.  This ain't New England we're talking about.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:13:08 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

IHateBush, where are you from exactly?

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

---

by: ARDem @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:52:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Pennsylvania, but that's really irrelevant

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:55:24 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No it's not. Do you have any first hand experience in the South?

I do, and I can tell you it's a lot different and far more complicated than your posts make it out to be.  Racial attitudes are evolving here-they have been for a long time-and they will keep doing so.

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

---

by: ARDem @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 18:05:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

They are indeed "evolving"

which direction, however, I'm not sure.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 20:09:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You should come spend some time in the South and see if your opinions change.

I grew up in a town that, still, when I was growing up in the eighties and nineties, had a "black town" "across the tracks" and I can still remember all the horrible things I was warned would happened if I, being white, ever crossed into it.  I can still remember a Ku Klux Klan rally being held down the road from my house, though by that point the Klan was just a joke, a shell of its former self.  I've seen a world of difference since then but it's nothing compared to the change my mother saw when she went through integration.  When she talks about integration I can still hear the fear in her voice from when she was a little girl trying to understand why armed soldiers were in her hometown and "wouldn't smile at her".  There are still divisions, still huge problems that get swept under the rug, like white flight and racial profiling, but there also signs of hope.  Interracial couples have become increasingly common and accepted, far more than they were when I was growing up, there are more black office holders in Arkansas than ever before.  The town in Mississippi that inspired the movie Mississippi Burning just elected its first black mayor and black office holders Thurbert Baker and Michael Thurmond have won statewide offices in Georgia with great support from white voters in the past (Thurmond is particularly notable as his old state senate district was majority white).  Change is happening in other venues too-gay and lesbian office holders were once unheard of in the South but are increasing in number, and I can point to a great number of my goofy, self-described redneck friends who are happy to count this gay man, and a few others, as friends.  We've come a long way, but we've got a long way to go, and if you want to dismiss us that's find but all you're doing is giving credence to the Southern viewpoint about outsiders who don't understand anything.

The point of that little diatribe is this.  Davis may or may not win.  Baker may or may not win.  Ford came close and Obama made inroads.  But the fact that Davis is polling well shows there's a chance, it shows there's a way forward, and even if he loses the election he'll still leave cracks in the barriers, because even failed efforts inspire hope and let old orders know they're time is coming to a close.

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

---

by: ARDem @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 20:53:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I find this kind of filth really disgusting

Southern viewpoint about outsiders who don't understand anything.

It is the kind of extreme arrogance in the South and a complete unwillingness to accept that they were crushed in the Civil War, and want to do anything that they can to somehow overturn the result of the Civil war by proxy.  

I'm not going to lie, I really hate Southern culture.  It is the morally repugnant and sick stuff.  Defending or honoring the Confederacy in my opinion like defending Nazism and Adolf Hitler and spits in the face of my ancestors who fount in the Union Army to preserve this great nation against a bunch of traitors and terrorists who tried to destroy it to preserve slavery.  It should be a federal felony punished by a mandatory prison term to fly that flag.  A close friend of mine who lives in No Virginia tells me he gets so angry when he has to drive on things like Jefferson Davis Highway or Robert E. Lee Road.

The only viewpoint that I find as repugnant as Southern culture are that of the Repugs and the Islamic jihadists.    

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 21:11:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Friend, you miss the point I'm afraid.

It isn't extreme arrogance to say that outsiders often fail to understand the South.  It is, I think, perhaps the second most complicated place on the globe, surpassed only by the Middle East.  I say with confidence that the South is changing and that Davis and/or Baker stand an excellent chance of winning because there is far more to the South then your the revolting things you correctly point to as such.  There are, after all, Southern values that Democrats can run on with pride and we can all consider good American values-family, community, hard work, honor, responsibility, modesty, dignity, faith, charity, self sacrifice, courage-all these things resonate in the South and they are the values that Davis, Baker, or any other Democrat can appeal to in order to win.  Furthermore, the days when the political establishment could rig the system to keep real change from happening is over.  There's a long history of populists movements (surprisingly often interracial in nature) in the South, from Georgia to Arkansas, being thwarted by the powers that be using criminal machinations.  That's a vein that can be tapped by Democrats in this new century.  Democrats can and will win in the South again, and Southern progressives always have and always will work to make this a better place, and we're winning.  Again, I encourage you to spend some time down here and get to know the place, or at the least stop basing your assumptions on Southern races and campaigns on stereotypes and half of the picture.

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

---

by: ARDem @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 21:45:53 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I really do take offense

I can't help but see that you have the same mindset as the people you are attacking in that comment. You dehumanize people with rhetoric and fail to see it as anything beyond a black and white picture, while, what and the other ARDem are saying is we have more insight than you do and see it much differently. I'm not quick to ever judge or hate anything, and it takes effort to do something like that. I prefer to live without hatred, live above that sort of thing, hatred clouds the very purity of ideals both for liberals and for conservatives, we need to move beyond it as a nation.

I don't even bother hating people, becuase people are people, always. Never forget they are human beings, never forget they are always conflicted or hypocritical in some manner and have other sides too. I hate it when arguments and ideals go beyond humanity and dehumanize the opposition. I'll always reading Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut becuase it taught me this lesson and I do like being reminded of it time and time again.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 21:47:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I myself really life Robert Lee

on one level I respect him as a brilliant stratecian, and I also respect the fact that he fought not for slavery but for his homeland.

His ideas on race where actually fairly progressive for a white man in those days and truth be told he wasn't quit as racist as Lincoln, in some regards, was. Lee came though to symbolize the soutehrn gentleman and that's why he's such a major figure in southern history.

You sound like a Radical Republican during reconstruction. I wouldn't say the south was crushed, it just that they were completely outmatched to begin with. Both sides lost, half a million lives, hundreds of thousands more maimed for life, scarred. A terrible thing, a terrible war.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 22:16:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually I would make the Radical Republicans

look like Confederate coddling wusses.  I fully admit that and am proud of that.  My plan for reconstruction was twofold,

1. The forcible transport of Confederate soldiers and sympathizers to Northern cities like Boston, New York, Chicago, etc, where they could be used as labor for emerging corporations.  Once relocated there, they would be denied voting rights for 20 years.
2. The restructuring of the South into 5 majority black states, and 2 white states. The 5 blacks states would be named: Lincoln, Sherman, Grant, Sumner, and John Brown (whom I see as one of the greatest heroes in American history)

3. Summary death penalty for high level Confed officials.

Calling me a Radical Republican is not an insult but a real compliment, however.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 22:33:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You seem to think that politics is all personal.

Judging by your comments you have an outright hatred for anyone who consideres themself a conservative or Republican.  Although I disagree strongly with just about everything that Republicans stand for, I don't hate them personally.  They don't take the positions that they take to hurt or offend me, but rather because those are the things that they feel and believe in their hearts.  We all love America, Republican and Democrat, and we're all trying to improve it.  We often disagree, but our motives are the same, it's our beliefs that are different.  You are not the only Liberal who has such loathing feeling against Republicans, But you go a step too far when take your hatred out on the South, an entire region of the country.  You're statements are overly inflammatory and just as predjudiced, if not more, than the southern people whom you claim to hate so much.

"[Rush Limbaugh] is a sorry excuse for a human being and a has-been hypocrite loser who was more lucid when he was a drug addict." Congressman Alan Grayson (D-FL)

---

by: Menhen @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 23:01:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

We are all entitled to our opinions, and no , I don't take offense to your comment

and I think we all should just move on.  I've lived in North Carolina for 38 years, and the last time I checked my state was part of the Confederacy.  I wish I could change history, but I can't.  It happened, Slavery was wrong, and the North did defeat the South.  

The Democratic party can still thrive in North Carolina and elsewhere in the South.  We need to be a National party and not like what happened to the GOP (i.e. a regional party).  I don't think the fact that I'm from the South makes me any less of a Democrat than my friend from PA.  It gives me a different viewpoint, but via healthy discussion, we can all get over it.

Those who take offense from IhateBush's comments:  just let it go.  Becoming defensive about the past isn't going to solve today's issues.  Live and let live.

---

by: Tarheeman1993 @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 14:51:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Also I think

the white South will accept gays before they truly accept blacks.  I really think that there is a significant portion of the white population who really believes that n****** are not really human beings at all.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 21:13:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

very inaccurate

I have some outragouesly racist people in my family but even they have black friends and don't have any beliefs about blacks not being human. This is where your lack of understanding comes in. Most racism is an unfair rejection of of black culture.

But seriously enough. I think you need to be banned. You spew too much hate and irrational arguments that are offensive to many people who see you don't know what you are talking about.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 21:41:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

very nice comment

Living in the south is always a love-hate relationship for me though, but yes, its notable that a comporable Democrat to Davis, Ford, did much better than Obama in Tennessee among white voters saying a lot. Voters didn't vote against Obama purely because of race. And Davis may not face as legitimate an opponent, as Corker was actually a sane, Republican with a broad coalition while Roy moore is not.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 21:39:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Tennessee is not Alabama

they are much less concerned about race there than in Alabama.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 22:36:22 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

How, pray tell, do you know that?

You're just making wild assumptions on things you really don't know about.

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

---

by: ARDem @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 22:40:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Look at the voting patterns

and the history.  Tennessee has always been less resistant to civil rights than Alabama.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 22:55:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Specifically, what voting patterns and what history.

Show some data.  Give us a link.  Do something to back your argument up.

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

---

by: ARDem @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 22:58:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think he's purely refering to George Wallace

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 12:07:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Plus

Baker and Davis have the possibility of being elected governor and are popular in their states. The same can't exactly be said for Paterson in NY and Patrick in MA.

Check out the 2010 California races (http://2010californiaracetracker.wetpaint.com) and help us take back Red California! (http://www.takebackredcalifornia.org)

---

by: californianintexas @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 06:42:18 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Times are changing

Philadelphia, Mississippi, which is 55% white and a city where a number of murders of civil rights workers by white supremacists took place in the 50's and 60's, elected a black mayor recently. Harold Ford almost won the senate seat in Tennessee If the economy recovers, Davis has a shot.

---

by: johnnythebandit @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 15:55:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I disagree

Artur Davis has spent the last 2 years building his reputation as a moderate "safe" black guy that whites can vote for. If it's Moore vs Davis then Davis will win. Davis will win the black vote and all the non-extremist-Christian white vote, and that should add up to just over 50%.

---

by: duffman @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:27:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The extremist white theocrat vote

and the non-theocratic but racist vote add up to more than 50% in Alabama.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:54:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And how do explain

the drop of Alabama whites voting for Kerry to Obama from 19 to 10%?
And it is not just evangelicals, just 17% of non-evangelical whites voted for Obama in Alabama.  52% of non-evangelical whites voted for Obama nationwide.

Among white Alabama Democrats, John McCain beat Obama 51-47.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:58:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No one was accusing

Kerry of being a Kenyan-born Muslim Jihadist and/or Radical Christian terrorist, for one.
While I think it would have been a major folly for Obama to heavily campaign in the Deep South (even Arkansas), you can't ignore the impact of his silence. Artur Davis will actually be on the ground to combat any racist rumors that emerge against him, and I doubt they will be that extreme anyway.

---

by: Nico @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 18:38:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No idea where that bold came from

---

by: Nico @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 18:39:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

And that innuendo was only run in the South?

I remember it being spread around pretty well in Pennsylvania as well.  It didn't lower his performance among whites from Kerry.

You might argue that well, Obama ran lots of ads here.  Fine.  But Obama ran nothing in Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Nebraska, or Kansas either.  In all of those states Obama's white support increased over Kerry.

The only states where Obama's white support dropped from Kerry was Arizona, Massachusetts(obvious reasons) and states in the Deep South.

Gee I wonder why.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 20:06:57 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

the inneundo

played much better in the south. And a big factor was Obama's inability to play those states hard to counter that, while he fought for even Arizona, and especially PA. He won PA whites over in the course of a vigorous campaign, especially to court Hillary voters.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 20:10:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It "played well" in the South

because they were already predisposed to reject Obama based on his skin color.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 20:18:46 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

yes indeed

its a more subtle racism in many cases but people were very willing to hate Obama, but, whether they realized it or not, they didn't give him the same fair chance they would have given white candidates.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 20:24:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's about time

but you finally accepted that racism was the primary reason why Obama did as poorly as he did in the South.

---

by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 21:14:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I never said it wasn't the

primary reason, but I said you mischaracterized the very nature of the racism.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 21:47:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

how about North Carolina?

John Kerry and Al Gore got their teeth knocked in the Tarheel State, but Barack Obama won, the first time a Democrat had captured our electoral votes since a Georgia governor named Jimmy Carter.  

I was so proud of my state for voting giving its electoral votes to Obama.  Racism is still in NC, but NC has made tremendous strides as a state as a whole.  

---

by: Tarheeman1993 @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 14:59:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

just like was predicted

in the book, "The Emerging Democratic Majority" which looked at its major ideolpolises like Durham-Raliegh, Greensboro-Winston-Salem and Charlotte.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 15:15:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

PPP

What was wrong with PPP's Colorado sample?

---

by: mdouglas @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 13:21:02 PM CDT

Even though the

party composition seemed OK, the results seemed hard to believe (Obama approval below 50%, McInnis beating Ritter, Beauprez beating Bennet). Either Colorado veered sharply to the right in the last half a year, or else it's a striking outlier.

---

by: Crisitunity @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 13:55:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Probably the latter

I had a very hard time swallowing any of the results. I believe there was an article on ColoradoPols that gave it a real skewering, but alas I lack a link.

---

by: corran horn @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 10:03:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

From the Childers article:

But Childers expresses disappointment that the president's budget lacked strong cuts in some areas, saying lean times will take across-the-board cuts to be fair.

Um, what?  

---

by: andgarden @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 13:41:00 PM CDT

You heard him

He's calling for a cut in military spending! :-)

---

by: trowaman @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 13:55:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Naw, you know we only cut spending

for poor people!  

---

by: andgarden @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 14:07:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Strong cuts?

Start with all the funding going to Childers' district.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

---

by: TheUnknown285 @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 14:02:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

heh

---

by: andgarden @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 14:06:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

kinda dumb

Childers is a lifelong Democrat and he's not even the most conservative of Democrats. Gene Taylor, Parker Griffith, Bobby Bright, Jim Marshall, they're all more conservative than him. Childers is actually fairly progressive overall considering the area that he represents.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:05:00 PM CDT

DiFi, if you're truly

"tired of being asked everywhere she goes whether she will run", instead of being a weasel why not bring yourself to say something like:  No. Absolutely not. Period.

Sheesh; egomaniac Senators...

---

by: homerun @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:35:26 PM CDT

While she's at it, she also needs to say:

"I will not run for re-election to the Senate either in 2012."

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

---

by: TheUnknown285 @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:38:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

LOL, yes

People should start pestering her so she says she won't run so they stop asking.

DiFi in threads two days in a row, yuck...

---

by: tommypaine @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:06:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

GA-Gov: Barnes obliterates; Baker not exactly getting love from black leaders; Poythress is, however

http://blogs.ajc.com/political...

The fact that Barnes is showing such big leads and STILL isn't in the race tells me he really doesn't want to get in.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

---

by: TheUnknown285 @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:37:36 PM CDT

More precise link

http://blogs.ajc.com/political...

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

---

by: TheUnknown285 @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:41:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Some organization called the

Mid-Atlantic Leadership Fund is running ads against Chris Christie.

Anyone know who these folks are

---

by: andgarden @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 15:41:11 PM CDT

I don't know but

The Mid-Atlantic Leadership Fund was formed on March 17, 2009
There's brand new. Presumably started just for this election.

---

by: duffman @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 17:32:27 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Whose side are they on, though?

Lonegan's or ours?

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

---

by: Glenn Magus Harvey @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 16:57:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Christie's ads suggest

that they are Corzine's pals. The legislation they're ostensibly supporting is backed in Congress by NJ Dems.  

---

by: andgarden @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 20:59:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Corzine (NJ)

Jon Corzine is pushing eliminating the state's property tax rebate for everybody but the elderly and disabled.  Meanwhile, he gets no love from "business" but continues to shove money at those creeps.  This is really a dangerous move.  Last year he threatened to eliminate it, wound up increasing it but got no PR benefit due to months of talk. talk, talk. I hope Codey once again saves this in the state senate.  

He's literally talking about effectively raising taxes on the entire middle class by more than a thousand dollars.  

---

by: David Kowalski @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 18:58:56 PM CDT

he's an incompetent

there's a reason he's probably going to lose. I can't imagine why the state party machine hasn't forced him to drop out. He's such an egomaniac he probably wouldn't anyway, but someone seriously needed to be recruited to run against him.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

---

by: ArkDem the Ragin Cajin @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 20:06:12 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Childers

Glad to hear Childers say he's not switching. Our party needs more people like Childers who are willing to vote their district's interests, even if it is out of touch with the party's view.

---

by: RuralDem @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 22:48:52 PM CDT

How voting against equal pay for women

is in the interest of Childers' district, I'm rather unclear.  How opposing the Employee Free Choice Act is in the interest of what is a very low income district who could get them into the middle class, I also fail to understand.

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by: IHateBush @ Fri May 22, 2009 at 22:58:20 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

eh

Because the people there have been convinced that that is something that they don't want. Same reason these people would most likely support a 'fair tax,' even though, for many of them, it would be anything but fair.

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by: Venslor @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 01:08:44 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Correct me if I'm wrong

but isn't the point of leadership to try and change the minds of the people when they are wrong?

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

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by: ARDem @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 03:01:53 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree

we want Democrats elected in these areas to try and move their districts to the left, but it is unrealistic to expect them to be able to do it on every issue. On these two Childers has probably determined it is a losing fight with his constituents and the bills will or did pass without his vote, so this makes it easy to vote with your district. Plus, we have to give Childers time to become entrenched before he can vote for bills that are heavily opposed by his constituents.

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by: publius2481 @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 14:36:51 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

One of the interesting things is that

once someone is heavily entrenched, their voting for unpopular but progressive legislation can actually change the electorate's minds on the issue.

However, this requires very hefty amount of star power, usually on the order of a long-time Senator.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

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by: Glenn Magus Harvey @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 16:56:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Or he actually believes what he says

It does happen sometimes. Besides, he is with the majority on other votes, certainly more than Bright, Griffith, Marshall and some others.

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by: conspiracy @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 17:10:45 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Agree

Childers is not as bad as Bright.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

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by: TheUnknown285 @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 18:13:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

No that is too simple

Representative must both represent and advocate.  You have to work to change minds while still representing.

If the large majority of people in a district feel one way, it is the responsibility of a representative to represent that viewpoint.

Moderates in deep red states become entrenched in part because they become personally trusted by the people, and in part because the people's views tend to moderate.

Some people here and elsewhere think "representatives" should not have as a priority to represent thier constituents.  That's the road to doom for representatives and for parties.  The reality is there are a lot of very conservative people in this country, and they deserve a voice and their opinons heard.  

Leadership seeks to alter those views over time, not ignore them.

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by: tommypaine @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 18:47:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Leadership seeks to alter those views over time, not ignore them."

Thank you!  This is something that ideologues of all stripes should realize.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

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by: Glenn Magus Harvey @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 19:12:23 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Wait a minute now, no one ever said they shouldn't represent their constituents views.

But I would like to see them do what is right for their constituents.  I have no problem with representatives basing their votes on the actual needs and concerns of their districts, but I do have a problem when they vote for or push bad public policy and use the "tough vote back home" line as a cover when the one's they're really looking out for are the businesses lining their pockets.  An example would be Blanche Lincoln being against EFCA, representing Wal-Mart when our state is 48th in both median and per capita income and could benefit from the bill.  Or the many so called Democrats that voted to kill cramdown.  Point to the district where supporting that bill would be a bad thing.  Now there are some things that are understandible, like Murray and Cantwell supporting free trade agreements as the coasts in their state benefit significantly from them, but there's a difference between actual representation and what we're seeing too often in Congress now.

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

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by: ARDem @ Sat May 23, 2009 at 23:45:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"But I would like to see them do what is right for their constituents."

Right by whose definition?  Yours?  Your definition of right is not the point.  When a vast majority of people in a district want or don't want something, a representative should follow that, except in rare circumstances, in which case they have to plead their case to their constiuents and expect to be replaced next election.

And parts of the cramdown bill was bad policy for any district.

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by: tommypaine @ Sun May 24, 2009 at 02:21:16 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, they should determine what's right by discernable facts.

Again, take EFCA for an example.  Workers benefit big time from unions, earning higher pay, better pensions, health insurance, etc.  In a low wage state like Arkansas, EFCA would be a tremendous help to working people.  Now, unions get a bad rap in the South (largely because there's only one opinion voiced on them in our politics and no counter argument is ever forcefully made IMO), but Arkansas workers would still greatly benefit in their lives.  I would expect our representatives then to vote yes and come back to Arkansans and say, "This is why I voted for it-A, B, and C-I think it will help the people of this state."  And if they lose, they lose doing the right thing.  No one is too important not to lose and personally I think doing something good for other people even if you will suffer consequences for it is simply what we're supposed to do as good people.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with southern and western representatives standing up for gun rights or even coal state senators like Byrd and Rockefeller supporting the coal industry (though I think they go a bit overboard, but that's another story all together).  But I want them to point to the hard facts that show their votes are in their district's/state's interst.

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

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by: ARDem @ Sun May 24, 2009 at 16:53:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Those jobs exist

because they fled union states.  You want someone to cast a vote that will effectively make a Michigan or California or New York job as expensive as an Arkansas job, which means jobs will flow out of Arkansas like a pipeline.  that's oversimplified, but you are taking a cavalier view of the responsibilities and longterm ramifications of action.  I don't agree with them, but doing what is best for your district in the opinion of the people in your district is certainly no major crime.

In contrast, their is no excuse for gun rights support.

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by: tommypaine @ Sun May 24, 2009 at 17:12:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ok, let's try to walk this one back and not get off topic.

First, there's plenty of reason's for representatives to support gun rights if they're from a rural area, like Childers.  I'm from rural Arkansas, and believe me, it's a different culture from suburbs and cities.  A lot of people here hunt, and I can remember plenty of times where we'd here a noise in the night and my stepdad would get one of the guns and go kill a raccoon or a coyote that was trying to get at our rabbits or chickens, and having once ran or twice ran off a prowler.  So there's plenty of reasons for rural Democrats to vote with gun interests in mind (though I think they can get away with a little more sanity than we currently have in our gun debate).

As for the union jobs, there's no data to suggest unionization causes job loss or will hurt our economy.  That's a right wing talking point with no substance.  All the data lends to unionization being good for workers and for the economy and that's plenty of reason for Southern Democrats to support the measure.  After all, a number of them did so when they were in the minority and it had no chance of passing-what does that say?

The bottom line is I want members of Congress to do what is right for their constituents, even if it's not popular, while doing their best to represent their interests.  The method for determining what's in their constituents interest is a pretty radical tool that is very seldom used in American politics-it's called reality.  In other words, look at the facts and base votes off of them, then come home and explain your votes to your constituents like they were, I don't know, adults?

Stop complaining and whining and get to work.

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by: ARDem @ Sun May 24, 2009 at 18:32:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

56-15 isn't that strong

Lieberman polled that strongly to begin with.

That's not to say Sestak would win - Lamont had a very strong issue upon which to play and faced an unusually incompetent campaign by Lieberman and Gerstein, whereas Sestak needs to rely more upon residual distrust of Republicans - but it is to say that within two weeks of launching his first ad the polling would be more like 50-35.

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by: Englishlefty @ Mon May 25, 2009 at 17:20:58 PM CDT

Who's Gerstein?

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

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by: Glenn Magus Harvey @ Tue May 26, 2009 at 09:18:54 AM CDT

[ Parent ]