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How Obama Can Win Utah (Without a 20% National Victory)

by: Inoljt

Sun Oct 11, 2009 at 4:49 PM EDT


By: Inoljt, http://thepolitikalblog.wordpr...

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Democratic candidates in Utah must feel as if they're facing an impossible task. The state is often considered the most far-right Republican stronghold in the United States. Winning Utah is akin to slaying a mighty dragon with only a bow as one's chosen weapon.

Like all dragons, however, Utah has a weak spot. The year 2012 may be a ripe time for Obama to shoot an arrow through it.

The majority of Utah's voters are Mormon; the religion is a heavy influence on daily life in the state. The vast majority of Mormons are also conservative, because Mormonism is an inherently conservative beast. In every presidential election so far, Mormons have proved to be strongly Republican.

Mormons like to think of themselves as average, normal Americans. They're good people. They help with the community. They love their children and teach them traditional values. Nobody cares if they have a different religion.

Except many people do care very much indeed, especially the type of person who tends to vote Republican. Many would never vote for a Mormon.

Imagine the following scenario, below the flip.

Inoljt :: How Obama Can Win Utah (Without a 20% National Victory)
Mitt Romney decides to runs for president in 2012 and starts as the front-runner. The race quickly narrows down to Romney and another Republican - perhaps a Huckabee-type figure. Romney's Mormonism becomes a strong undercurrent and then explodes into the media spotlight, much like race did in the 2008 Democratic primary. It becomes clear that Romney is losing support because of his religion; eventually he loses the primary and ends up faintheartedly endorsing the Republican nominee. The good folk of Utah, angered by Romney's treatment, turn out in drastically reduced numbers during the general election. Many vote for Obama - enough that, in an election he's winning by 10% or so - he barely takes the state.

An unlikely scenario? Not really. First, Romney seems nearly certain to run in 2012; even now he is running a shadow campaign. In 2008, Mormonism was a strong undercurrent; Romney even gave a speech on his religion. There is no reason to think why it wouldn't be in 2012. I doubt Mitt Romney will win the nomination in a competitive race; apart from his Mormonism, he is a terrible politician who lost all the important states in the 2008 primary (except for Michigan, which he won by promising to bring back jobs that will never come back).

On the other hand, its not certain that the media will pick up on the Mormon issue. And Republicans are strong enough in Utah that they might still win the state, even if all the above did occur.

Then again, Obama won Indiana when everybody said it couldn't be done. Moreover, in 2008 he made strong gains in Utah, improving by 18% from John Kerry's performance. Partly, this is probably because Obama is very popular in the West.

And maybe, just maybe, the Mormon factor had something to do with it.

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This is not too different
from saying that, had Obama lost the Democratic primary in 2008, McCain would have won Washington DC.

I'm not buying. The voters in Utah are simply too conservative and too Republican.


Agreed
This ain't happening. The president is much more likely to win Arizona, Montana, North Dakota, even Texas and Alaska, than Utah.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  


[ Parent ]
Mormons
are way too conservative to ever vote for a Democrat. I should know, one of my good friends is a Mormon....and he'll drop dead rather than vote for a Democrat. Anyone know how the Mormons became a reliable voting bloc for the Republicans?  

18, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
If I'm remembering correctly
Mormons are roughly as Republican as Jews are Democratic (Obama won the Jewish vote 78-21 according to the exit polls).

Basically, if there was a state the size of Utah with a population that was 65% Jewish, that state would be consistantly the most or second-most Democratic in the country.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01



[ Parent ]
1964
Was the last time Utah voted for a Democratic president. 1968 Utah was still considered a swing state. Humphrey actually was campaigning in Salt Lake City when he gave a speech seperating himself from Johnson on Vietnam helping him close the gap in the polls on Nixon. Utah hasnt been close since.

[ Parent ]
Although this is an interesting hypothetical
I think it is more important to focus on states that a) Were closer than UT in 2008, and b) Bigger, and more politically important in terms of what could come from an Obama victory down ticket. I think states like MO and GA fit these characteristics just to name a couple but I agree the anti Mormon angle could present an interesting development for Obama if he can pull off enough disaffected Republicans in UT, ID, and it could improve Obama's margins in Eastern WA and OR as well as perhaps make AZ more competitive (not really sure about the religious composition of Northern AZ but I'd imagine it's fairly Mormon due to its proximity to Mormon UT).  

Support Russell Edwards and defeat Paul Broun in 2010 (btw I work here)

Uh, no.
Even if Romney wound up losing in an absolutely-miserable Primary, if polls showed Utah a close race, he'd stump for the nominee a couple times and that'd be enough.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

Huckabee
During the presidential primaries Huckabee made some statements about the LDS church and their beliefs that werent true. There was a poll I cant remember the exact numbers and I couldnt find it now but it showed competetive match ups between Huckabee and the Democrats. So I think Inoljt has a point but I think it would take more than a bitter primary I think it would take a canidate that made comments about the LDS church like Huckabee did.

Looking at 2004 to 2008
exit polling, what I gather is that while Obama did much better than Kerry in Utah, the Mormon vote for GOP/Dem did not change at all. Instead it was the other other groups that split more heavily for Dems.

(Although this is a bit conflated as in 2004 the exit poll defined mormons as protestants while in 2008 they were separate). Still as there are only 2% non-Mormon protestants, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Seeing as anti-Mormon undercurrents in the GOP base didn't reflect in any change among Mormon support of the GOP in 2008, I cannot envision any scenario which this would happen in 2012. Remember, the second there is a hint of dissatisfaction with the GOP in Utah, all it would take would be a Romney campaign event in Utah. And I see no reason why Romney wouldn't do that if the RNC asked him to.


I think Utah will be a lot like the South.
I think any path toward ever winning Utah will happen the same way winning in the South (with its white evangelicals) will happen.  Build a coalition of minorities (Utah does have a sizable Hispanic population) and more liberal whites.  Peel off whatever you can get outside that coalition.  Use that to work around the religious conservatives.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

[ Parent ]
Utah is both like and unlike the South
They're not divided on racial boundaries so much as they are on religious boundaries: Mormons tend to vote Republican, non-Mormons tend to vote Democratic. Looking at the 2008 exit polls, the Mormon vote (75% of voters) went 78-19 for McCain, which translates to 58.5% of the total vote for McCain, 14.25% for Obama. If those numbers are correct, that means only 3.75% of McCain's total came from non-Mormons (that is to say, 15% of the 25% of voters who are non-Mormons), while Obama's non-Mormon total was 20% (80% of the 25% of non-Mormons). That's pretty mindblowing. It's akin to the extreme black/white polarization in the Deep South.

As far as the minority percentage of the electorate, they're still a severe, well, minority in the state. only 10% of the voters in 2008 were nonwhite.


[ Parent ]
Young Voters
I think young voters are the key for Democrats becoming competetive on a statewide level in Utah. According to CNN's exit poll Obama got 33% of the 18-29 vote in Utah compared to 66% nationally. The young vote is especially important in Utah because it has the youngest population in the nation.  

Yeah that's odd
Obama did much better with 30-44 year olds who went 44-52 (which is 8 points worse than national [52-46]).

Is this because they are transplants while the 18-29 are children of 45-64?  


[ Parent ]
I think so
the same thing happened in Georgia

[ Parent ]
In addition to the theory posted before...
I think you also have to consider that younger Utah voters (and younger Georgia voters, too) haven't had as much time to leave the sheltered world of their parents and haven't had as much time to have their views challenged.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

[ Parent ]
The thing that gave me this idea
was by thinking of 1964 and the South. I think Utah turning Democratic is unlikely, but not as unlikely as ppl think. Ppl. didn't think a black man could become president; they didn't think Indiana could go Democratic. But it happened.

http://mypolitikal.com/

Three things about Indiana
1. Obama was the Senator from neighboring Illinois (not to mention that Chicago's media market bleeds into the western third of Indiana). Unless Obama suddenly finds a cousin in Utah or something, that advantage won't exist.

2. Indiana's always been more Republican than it should be considering its demographics (really, it's almost exactly the same as Missouri and Ohio). It's not all that surprising that when a Democratic candidate finally decides to contest it it becomes reasonably competitive. The same is really not true of Utah, as Mormons are actually quite conservative.

3. Indiana, as Republican as it was in 2004, was still a lot less Republican than Utah was that year. Kerry lost Indiana by 21 points (60-39) but lost Utah by 46 points(!) (72-26). And even in 2008, Obama still lost the state by 29 points to McCain (63-34).

In short, the only way the Democrats have a prayer of winning Utah in a year that the Democrats don't win the national vote by 20 points or more would be to nominate Jim Matheson and have Tom Udall be his running mate.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01



[ Parent ]
It could happen...but you'd need a FAR more perfect storm.
You'd need something that amounts to complete and utter civil war within the Republican Party, between Mormons and non-Mormon evangelical Protestants.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

Ain't happening, dude!


Right Idea, but Backward
A more likely scenario is if Romney by some miracle wins the primary, many Republicans (especially in the South) may vote for Obama to spite Romney and Mormonism, potentially causing some Republican states to swing Democratic.

Interesting hypothesis
For Utah to turn to the Democrats, you will need (a) time and (b) a huge economic paradise to develop in Utah.  

Utah is a growing state, but it will need to attract people from outside the state to ever turn blue.  In fact, I could make an argument that the younger voters of Utah are probably the most conservative amongst all the 50 states.  They have learned from their parents who are quite conservative.

As far as the 30-44 year vote, I'm not surprised because a large portion of these voters have come from outside of Utah.

I honestly believe that I won't see Utah, Idaho, or Wyoming turn blue in my lifetime.  Of course, I never dreamed that a Democratic candidate would get an electoral vote from Nebraska, so anything could happen.


39, male, NC-04


What is the "disappointment effect"?
Not sure of the actual technical term - but I remember reading at some point -

how a major party nominee underperforms

in the home state of his/her main rival in the general election

I think I read it's like 5% - on average.

So in a generic 50/50 election, the D would have a chance in such a state if it were normally 45-55 D-R.

Utah certainly doesn't fit in that category.  


correction
I meant to say

how a major party nominee underperforms

in the home state of his/her main primary rival in the general election  


[ Parent ]

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