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HI-Sen: Ed Case Gets In

by: DavidNYC

Sun Apr 10, 2011 at 8:39 PM EDT


I had really hoped we were done with this guy:

Former Democratic Rep. Ed Case, who finished third in last year's special House election, announced his candidacy for U.S. Senate in Hawaii Sunday, releasing a video to supporters.

"I'm running for the Senate because I believe we can and must do better, and that our Hawaii offers a better way forward for our country," he says in his announcement video. ...

Case becomes the first official entrant into the state's first open seat Senate contest since 1990.

Case is in fact coming off two straight losses, plus an embarrassing yank on the rip-cord. In 2006, he united the Hawaii political establishment against him when he challenged now-retiring Sen. Dan Akaka in the Democratic primary, losing 54-45. He then tried to stage a comeback last year, as Dave Catanese notes, splitting the vote with Colleen Hanabusa in a 1st CD special election prompted by now-Gov. Neil Abercrombie's resignation. This allowed Republican Charles Djou to win with just 39% - despite an arrogant attempt by the DCCC to intervene on Case's behalf. (The D-Trip insisted, without evidence, that Hanabusa was unelectable - even though the entire establishment was once again united against Case.) After the special, Case said he'd challenge Hanabusa in the Dem primary for the regular election last November, but dropped out just days later, probably realizing he'd get smoked in the primary. As a final coda, Hanabusa beat Djou in the general, showing just how misguided the DCCC's interference was.

As I say, I would have thought this track record would have been enough to put an end to Case's political ambitions, but ambition is what defines Ed Case - ambition, and douchiness. Case is truly a Dem in the DLC mold. Most notoriously, when he was running for Congress in 2002, he said he would have voted for the Iraq war resolution - and as late as 2006, he voted (and spoke) in favor of an open-ended military commitment in that country. He's also been a regular supporter of anti-progressive legislation like the bankruptcy bill and the PATRIOT Act. In short, Hawaii can - and should - do a lot better than Ed Case. Indeed, his recent track record at the polls shows that Hawaiians already know this.

But I'm a bit concerned, because Case has been making amends with the other Dan - Sen. Dan Inouye, the dean of Hawaii politics. Case says he called Inouye last month to "apologize," though exactly what he was apologizing for wasn't clear. (Inouye took Case's run against his buddy Akaka quite personally, it seemed.) And after Case dropped out of the HI-01 race last year, Inouye termed him a "real Democrat," though I remain convinced Case bailed in order to avoid a third straight defeat, not because he was being a team player. So Case might no longer be the outcase he once was. Fortunately, Dems have quite a strong progressive bench in the state, so I'm hopeful someone like 2nd CD Rep. Mazie Hirono will step in and mop the floor with Case - soon.

DavidNYC :: HI-Sen: Ed Case Gets In
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he might win
then again, with obama at the top of the ticket, if our side nominates a jelly donut, the jelly donu WILL WIN........

He's not saying he would loose
a general election, but it seems unlikely he would win a primary.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
this ain't my first rodeo
i know exactly what he is saying; all i am saying is simply this; if the democratic nominee is a jelly donut(or ed case), then the jelly donut(or ed case) is going to win(i don't give a rats ass as to the democratic primary's out come; i want our side to win in the general)

[ Parent ]
It really wasn't very easy
to understand what you were saying, since you started out talking about the primary and switched to the general mid-sentence without clarifying.

And you really should care who wins the primary because there's a BIG difference between a centrist like Ed Case and a progressive like Hirono. This is like choosing between Lieberman and Sherrod Brown.

And if we're all so confident that our jelly donut is going to win, we might as well have the best donut we can get. This is a pretty standard thing to consider in highly polarized districts or states where one party is all but guaranteed to win.


[ Parent ]
I really wish I had read all of this douche's comments
before I bothered replying to one of his. Very good riddance.

[ Parent ]
Would the Jelly donut still win
If I ate it first? :P

[ Parent ]
Well Missouri elected Mel Carnahan over Ashcroft so...


[ Parent ]
I'm just not worried right now
An open seat in Hawaii is just not going to be given to case without a fight, given that you can have the seat for life, I can't imagine someone running for the seat this time.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


I'm worried, specifically because....
...there easily could be multiple good liberals with bases of support to split the field.  Case will clear the field among centrist Dems, so he could win a divided primary field.

I'm with DavidNYC altogether on what we should get out of Hawaii.  Always go for the most liberal nominee in every state who has a very realistic path to victory.  In Hawaii, there's virtually no limit on how left you can go, so that's what we want.

I do hope a high-profile liberal, preferably non-white (there are too few in the Senate to begin with), jumps in, and scares off the rest.  Case cannot win a primary one-on-one.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
That's what I mean, if someone like Hirono jumps in, I doubt someone else runs
I don't want Case winning any more than you do, and I definitely want to see a non-white progressive out of Hawaii.

I'm mostly just waiting until Hirono decides to jump in or not before I decide to worry, if she jumps in, I think she's the field-clearer for progressives in the race (especially given that Inouye's last re-election was very likely his last, this won't be the last chance for other Democrats to get a safe senate seat).

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
why a non-white?
are you a racist?

[ Parent ]
Way to jump to conclusions there, dude.
He's probably saying non-white because Hawaii is a state that will readily elect a minority to the Senate, and if there's one thing the Senate doesn't need more of, it's white dudes.

[ Parent ]
no conclusion dude
at all; the staement was made; i made a rebuttal

[ Parent ]
Absolutely non-okay comment from you
I don't need to explain that throwing around charges like that, even if framed in the form of a question, is not okay. It presumes bad faith, and it's automatically incendiary. Claiming you aren't making a "conclusion" doesn't get you out from under this one. No good.

And you've run into trouble with us before. You're getting a one-week time-out. If you can't play nice when you come back, then don't came back.


[ Parent ]
Woah there!
I'm sure he just meant because minorities are underrepresented in the Senate as is (although whites are the minority in Hawaii).

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
my point is clear
i don't like case either(my favorite pol is bernie sanders) BUT his type of statement needs to thought out

[ Parent ]
It's a pretty common sentiment on here
to wish that there were better minority representation in the Senate, and it's a bit strong to ask someone if they are a racist, don't you think?

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
nope
because my point remains simply this; let the voters in HAWAII decide for themselves what type of senator they choose(my opinion is that hirono will win in a walk)BUT case has as much right to run as anyone else(i hope the voters reject him regardless of his skin color)

[ Parent ]
So because of this
you accuse someone of being racist? It's not like he can control the race and keep Case out of it. He simply wishes more minority representation. Oh and guess what I want more women in the Senate. Does that mean I hate men?

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
you idiot
i accused no one of anything; you need a remedial course in basic english; show me anywhere where i accused anyone of ANYTHING; YOU CAN'T(i am done reading anything that you write, therefore no further responses will be from me)

[ Parent ]
I'm sorry you feel that way.


19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
If anyone here needs a course in anything
You need one in basic manners. I don't have anything to say about what's being argued here, but childish name-calling doesn't do anything to help your case.  

Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09

[ Parent ]
Oh whoops
Sorry - should have read this comment first. Yeah, you're gone, period. Not putting up with your childish inability to act respectfully around here. Find another outlet for your ALL CAPS anger and vitriol.

[ Parent ]
NOpe
I'm a white GOP supporter, and even I hope that the seat goes to someone non white - I'm a huge fan of diversity in elected officials.  Of course as long as they are qualified and there is no shortage of qualified non-white candidates on both sides for that seat.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
your statement
by definition is racist

[ Parent ]
You seem to have a very broad definition of the word racism.
http://dictionary.reference.co...

It's also a very load term to throw around without knowing the motivation behind the person's statement (especially if there's no malice or intentionally prejudicial subtext involved).

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)


[ Parent ]
you seem
to not get the point; so, let me spell it out to you as if you were a small child; the fact that ed case is a white man should have NO bearing on this race whatsoever; the fact that ed case is too conservative for the electorate in HAWAII should(thus i think hirono will enter this race and win it in a walk BUT ed case's ethnicity should NEVER be at issue)

[ Parent ]
Semi-agree. If a white man is the best person for the job, then vote for him.
How you are approaching this is where I disagree.

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
You know, my preference is for a nonwhite progressive, but my primary preference is for a progressive
To wit, between Neil Abercrombie and Mufi Hannemann, I support Abercrombie, but in a match-up between Hirono and Abercrombie, I support Hirono.

Another thing, in New Mexico, if Hector Balderas runs against Martin Heinrich, I'll be voting for Heinrich, but the fact that the senate isn't the most diverse body in the world and that it could stand to have a lot more racial (and gender) diversity isn't exactly a controversial position to take.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Agreed totally.
Case doesn't fit progressive at all.

I'm all for seeing more Hispanics/Asians/African Americans in the legislative bodies of the US, but voting for them under the cover of diversity if they are corrupt is not good.

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26


[ Parent ]
Eyeroll
Not even worth replying to you.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
Am I a racist?
That's an odd thing to say to someone who happens to be white and in this instance would support a nonwhite progressive in a state that is majority nonwhite.

Frankly, I'm offended that you're asking me that question.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
on your signature:
Can it be the Atheist/Agnostic Caucus? And can I be Leader? =P

23, liberal democrat, SSP Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college);   DKos: HoosierD42

[ Parent ]
I'm actually leaning towards the "Godless Heathen" caucus
Is that acceptable? :P

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
That sure covers a lot of bases =P


23, liberal democrat, SSP Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college);   DKos: HoosierD42

[ Parent ]
Really, that's what my "Going-to-hell" caucus is about lol
n/t

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Here's an abridged conversation that took place yesterday:
My mom: I didn't get a chance to go to mass earlier today. Can I watch it on TV now?

Me: Sure.

My mom: It's Lent, and I've been meaning to go every week, but I didn't go this morning because I was in too much pain. I just don't want to go to Hell.

My sister: I'll probably be there. I'll save you a seat.

My mom: THERE'S NO SEAT IF YOU ARE BURNING IN HELL. YOU WILL BE BURNING.

My mom, by the way, is a Catholic woman who was going to become a nun before she went in the opposite direction and had five kids. I used to think that was a lot, until I met my freshman year roommate in college, who was one of nine. Unsurprisingly, he was Catholic, too.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
My grandma, who is also Catholic, has 10 brothers and sisters
So, are you practicing right now, or will you be joining my hell-bound caucus? :D

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Haha
My grandmother, a former Catholic, almost became a nun when she was a teen. She went to Catholic boarding school and had two sisters. She later became what I like to call a pot smoking hippie. Although I don't think there's a difference between a regular hippie and a pot smoking hippie.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Actually,
that's not even the most. There was one woman my mother knew from church who had 11 kids. I went to a dinner party with my mom once where almost every single guest was related to this one family in some way.

As far as me, I guess you could call me agnostic.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
I'm in
Weird hippy pantheist ideas don't disqualify me do they?

[ Parent ]
Eh, I believe in an open-tent caucus
And worst-case, you'll always be welcome in my Going-To-Hell caucus ;)

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
I agree with primaryarlen
I hope the seat is won by a white guy.

(j/k)


[ Parent ]
I guess this means one
of the two Congresswomen enters soon. I hope it's Hirono.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

It'll be Hirono
If it's either congresswoman. Hanabusa just got her latest job, it'll seem like she's not taking it seriously if she jumps right into another race.

23, liberal democrat, SSP Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college);   DKos: HoosierD42

[ Parent ]
GOD DAMN IT
Why can't this guy just go away.

20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)

Depends on how many favors he got in exchange for dropping out last year
If he made friends in the Hawaii establishment, most notably Inouye and Hanabusa, he could be pretty competitive in the primary.

http://electionreference.com

Male, 28, R (don't worry I'm not here to fight), WA-2


Case is not going to get any endorsements from Inouye or other liberals......
At best, Case can hope for the establishment to stay on the sidelines and just watch.

Even in that scenario Case is a longshot, and he absolutely can't beat a credible more liberal candidate one-on-one.  He'd need a divided left with multiple liberals running.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Tell us how you really feel, David...
...but I agree with everything you said...

NY-14, DC-AL (college) Distraught Mets fan

Ed Case is probably the front runner
I don't think either congresswoman will give up a safe House seat for a 50/50 shot in a primary. If either of them were going to get in they have had plenty of time to jump in and probably clear the field. I don't  think Case is as bad as many here make him out to be, then again I am probably more conservative than 90% of the Dems who post here.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

Hanabusa will probably
run in 2016 if Inouye retires, leaving Hirono. Hirono has only been in the house for 4 years and she is now in the minority. Chances are if its a two way race she would crush Case. This is her best chance of moving up.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
It's not a 50-50 shot in the primary
Hirono's favorables with Dems are way higher (+56 vs. +20), and my tea-leaf reading aside, Ed Case is still on the outs with much of the establishment, including the unions.

[ Parent ]
Doesn't Hawaii have an open primary?
Given that the Democratic primary is likely the de-facto general election this time around, I wonder if Case doesn't try to get Republicans to vote for him as a "lesser-of-two-evils" candidate (isn't that why the primary against Akaka was relatively close?)

I agree that in a one-on-one race, Case is the underdog, but what might give him a fighting chance (and this is partially me playing devil's advocate here) is the potential for Republicans voting in the primary.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Your ability to woo Republicans
wouldn't be a good selling point in a Dem primary, I don't think.

23, liberal democrat, SSP Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college);   DKos: HoosierD42

[ Parent ]
Who can tell me about CT-Sen 2006
Was that an open primary?  This is also a Presidential year with only a GOP primary so that'll be a major factor.

[ Parent ]
Tammy Duckworth
I've seen some chatter about interest in her running. Given that she's lived in Illinois and D.C. more recently than Hawaii, is there anything strong behind it?

That would be a tough sell...
... considering she ran in Illinois only 5 years ago.  

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
no base
i love duckworth; but she has no base here

[ Parent ]
I really liker her. Her 06 loss hurt.
Maybe she can run in an open CD here. Or how about our newly gerrymandered Ill. I was really hoping Blago would pick her back in 08. It was probably best for her sake that he didn't.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]
This is why I hate "chatter"
No one has even tried to get Duckworth on the record for a quote. Akaka mentioned her off-handedly in an interview a while back, so then her name starts to come up in the usual roundup pieces as a "possibility," and then some totally anonymous person creates a "draft" site, so then bored reporters with digital column inches to fill dutifully write it up as though it's meaningful.

And even if she said, "Yeah, I'm interested," her political resume is awfully thin, with some negatives (like losing a House race half a world away from Hawaii), and she'd be going up against a very strong Dem field which potentially includes at least two excellent female candidates. Not serious, in my view.


[ Parent ]
a very strong Dem field
She couldn't run against either sitting Congresswoman; it'd have to be a cleared field (if neither wanted to step up) as an Establishment pick to thwart Case, I guess.  But this strikes me as one of those Wes Clark-esque "great concept for a candidate, but doesn't work in execution" ideas.

[ Parent ]
The idea of Tammy Duckworth running for HI-Sen is very silly to me
But I'll donate $10 to her if she's our person against Case.  

[ Parent ]
To be fair
Case was pro-gay marriage back in the 90s, when Hawaii was pretty much dead-set against it (I recall the referendum banning it passed with like 78%.)

That's nice and all, but that
alone does not make a progressive.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
I know.
What I'm saying is that he isn't, say, Gene Taylor (or heaven forbid Parker Griffith.) Hawaii could do better, true, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.

[ Parent ]
More on that
Exactly 4 politicians in Hawaii (3 Dems including Case, 1 Rep) publicly opposed it... including Mazie Hirono. The amendment ended up passing with ~70% of the vote.

I don't like Case very much, but he isn't bad all-around.


[ Parent ]
Four Dems
Hirono, Case, McCartney, Tarnas.

Still, as a gay guy I do have to give him points for that. don't think it's automatically a reason to support him and overlook his other weak points, but I will give credit where credit is due.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
He gets a few points in my book, but fuck him nonetheless
Hirono's listed as well so that just makes me want her elected that much more.  

[ Parent ]
Why?
Is it opportunism or narcissism that drives Case to keep running for office? I generally don't like to impugn the motives of others, especially politicians. When we think every politician not on our side is evil, we end up with the political system we have now.

But still, Case has to know he's too polarizing a figure to represent Hawaii properly.

23, Male, Liberal Democrat, CA-23.  


maybe
he feels like he is a good candidate; i say, let the voters decide(and not folks on SSP that can't vote)

[ Parent ]
We aren't deciding.
We are just giving our opinions like you.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
primaryarlen, are you drunk?......
Serious question.

Your comments in this thread are that bizarre, that I must question your state of mind.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
This whole thing is hysterical to read the day after
just when I thought it ended, 50 comments later, there is some more bitter.

[ Parent ]
It's a free country
Why does anyone run for office? Case has as as much right to run as anyone else.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
He wasn't saying Case shouldn't be allowed
he was asking a question.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
A really dumb either/or "stopped beating your wife" question actually


[ Parent ]
He'll never have an easy election, that should be clear to him
Plenty of ambitious, liberal state reps and senators in the legislature.

[ Parent ]
I'm probably showing my age here
but what's so bad about Case? I've heard him referred to as Lieberman-esque but I'm unfamiliar with any specifics. Was he especially conservative in Congress or more bombastic?

20, Ind, PA-14

Well
Re-read the post for some key examples. He ran on a deliberately pro-war platform in the fall of 2002, going so far as to say he would have voted for the war had he been in Congress. I don't know how politically active or aware you were as a young teenager, but the Iraq war was really a defining (in a bad way) moment for the Democrats. It made the Democrats look weak and craven, it infuriated the base, and in many ways opposition to the war helped give life to the then-nascent blogosphere (and certainly the Dean campaign).

People like Dick Gephardt wanted to get the vote overwith so they could go back to talking about economic issues, which they thought they'd beat the GOP with that fall. Not only did nothing like that come to pass, many Democrats thought they could take the issue "off the table" by voting for the war... yet they still got hammered with campaign ads questioning their patriotism anyway. (See the sad case of Max Cleland.)

Indeed, it's pretty hard to recreate what the political climate was like at the time. Ari Fleischer, the White House press secretary, had said that people need to "watch what they say." Right-wing radio was working up mobs into crazed frenzies to burn Dixie Chicks albums for the crime of saying "We don't want this war, this violence, and we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas." Liberals had nowhere to go - a majority of senators in our own party voted for the war, and quite a few members of the House did, too (including some supposed liberals like Carolyn Maloney). Jeez, we even wound up nominating a guy for president who had voted the war even though he could barely communicate with human beings just because he was a decorated war hero, which apparently 38% of Iowa caucus-goers thought was enough to "insulate" us from right-wing attacks on our security credentials.

I could go on at length. I already have gone on at length. It was a very bad time to be a Democrat, and a very bad time to be a liberal. (The word "progressive" was not in common use then.) Our party had gone completely rudderless, passive, scared. The GOP Daddies had practically convinced our own leadership to believe all the worse bogeyman tales Republicans tell about us! We were desperate for champions who would steer us back on track, which explained how an absolute nobody governor of one of the tiniest states in the nation who had a big mouth & largely lacked a professional campaign organization could come so close to capturing the Democratic nomination.

So when we talk about a guy like Ed Case, it's not just some random press release from a distant age about a now large-forgotten war (even though we still have tens of thousands of troops over there) that we're grousing about. Progressives today who remember that time know how hard, how very, very, terribly hard it was to stand up for what was right. We were being shouted down from all directions, including within our own party. Few would speak up. And when this hard time called for hard choices, Ed Case took the easy route, the warmonger's route. So it's not just that he went out of his way to support a pointless, dangerous, disastrous war, but that he betrayed his own party at a time when true leadership was most needed.

THAT is why we oppose Ed Case, and that is why he will never be forgiven.


[ Parent ]
Arianna Huffington did a book tour
And her stop in the Twin Cities ended up at my univ. She made sure to point out in her speech that the only Democrat up for re-election to vote against war authorization was Wellstone.  I double checked that and Durbin and Reed also were up for re-election, but they faced little opposition.

Franken does that seat proud.


[ Parent ]
FWIW Case polled the best ...
... in the recent PPP/Kos poll

http://www.dailykos.com/pollin...

of course any Dem will be a big favorite with Obama on the top of the ticket.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan


He was also the least popular
among Democrats.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Mazie was the most popular.
Which is one more reason for her to jump in.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
This idiot is
looking forward to having an Asian woman in the Senate.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

Case
could be better off running for an open congressional seat. He might have a better shot. This is his last chance.  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

Isn't it sad that the last time
wasn't his last chance.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Yeah
I got to admit that coming in third place despite DC backing should have solved the problem. So maybe I shouldn't say this is his last shot....

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]
He is just an arrogant asshole, what do you expect?


20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)

[ Parent ]
Good Point.


Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]
His actions clearly indicate
he isn't running for Hawaiians.

[ Parent ]
Unfortunate
Even though I am more conservative than most Democrats, I value intellectual and ideological diversity within our government.

Case (excuse the pun) in point: Case is too conservative for Hawaii.

Apparently I'm racist since I would prefer that Hawaii elect someone who represents them physically and adds to the ethnic diversity of the senate.  

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.


.
As of now I am not sure that I will be making the trek over to DKos as a regular poster. The amount of comments on DKos Elections has been increasing dramatically, and about 90% of the comments are unintelligible garbage. I'm not sure I'll feel comfortable.

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.

[ Parent ]
It'll b'e fine there when the move is official, which IT IS NOT......
They're still doing testing over there, DavidNYC has made clear when the official move from here to there happens, it will be publicized very loudly.

And the move not having been made means that our regulars aren't going over there, so that's dispositive of what you'll see.  I know I haven't visited in a long time, although I'll take a looksy again tonight.

I'm going there and am not worried.  I'm confident David will help steer discussions toward the thoughtful side.  And the regulars here won't be able to resist, they'll trek over.  Admit it, you won't be able to stay away!

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Uh, did you see the MA thread the other day where they were talking about how MA voters were "ignorant serfs" (!!) for voting for Brown?
I don't think anybody will be able to steer the conversation is any productive way over there.

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
OMFG
That is EXACTLY why I made this comment. I was just over there now and was reading the comments and... wow. It was awful.

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.

[ Parent ]
I'm still waiting for the commenter to reply to me with any reasonable statement about how that would get any votes.
nt

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
Guys
Let's stay on-topic here. This is a thread about HI-Sen.

[ Parent ]
Then again, the life of the average peon...
Has suffered greatly since the rise of the manorial system under Seigneur Brown.

Seriously, though, what was the context? "Ignorant serfs?!?"

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)


[ Parent ]
.
I'll go to read, but may not post.

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.

[ Parent ]
This is a thread about HI-Sen
We don't need to turn every thread into a discussion on meta. Thanks.

[ Parent ]
Sorry
I should have known better and left it at the original post.

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.

[ Parent ]
I actually don't care about representing Hawaii "physically," but rather...
...just see it as an easy opportunity to get another non-whtie Senator elected, and yes a non-white woman in particular would be nice (and I'm a man).

I take pride in being part of a party that elects black Muslims (Ellison and Carson) to represent a district of majority white Christians, a white Jew (Cohen) to represent a district of majority black Christians, and an Chinese-descended woman (Chu) to represent a majority Hispanic district.

Hawaii electing a white person to the Senate would fit with the above examples.

Problem is, there are just sooooooo few non-white Senators, and the opportunities today remain so limited, that I don't like to see them wasted.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I would also like to see more minorities in the Senate
And this is one of the few places where the opportunity is open. There are many states that I think would elect minority Senators, the only problem is minority politicians haven't built up crossover support, which is one of the pitfalls of the VRA, it boxes many in.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.

I wonder about this
Obama represented a majority-black district in the State Senate (at least before redistricting, I don't know how much it changed), Doug Wilder started out as a state Senator from Richmond, Harold Ford made a plausible run for Senate from a majority-black district, Kendrick Meek got a statewide Senate nomination from a majority-black district...I don't know about Marco Rubio's state house seat...I mean, arguably Ford and Meek were held back by their districts, but it's not impossible to imagine them winning.  Also, those two weren't exactly the greatest pols ever...but I can't think of too many examples either way, which does help support your point.

Who are plausible minority Senators of the future (outside of majority-minority states, I.e., HI, TX, CA, NM)?  I could see Donna Edwards in Maryland...or the LG there, Anthony Brown...a couple of people in MA...the mayor of Providence for RI.  Jindal, if he wants to, in LA.  Tim Scott in SC.  Donna Edwards has a VRA district, I believe?  I don't think she'd be held back by it for a statewide run.

25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)


[ Parent ]
Sadly, being mayor of Providence automatically brings lots of baggage
because of the city's budget pains. Even Taveras has had to make really tough decisions. In terms of minority Providence mayors going to the Senate, though, David Cicilline would be a good one (Jewish, and more historically, openly gay).

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
To be sure
And I also have no local RI knowledge, but again, if he builds up party goodwill and doesn't have any obvious fiascos, I think you could write a scenario where he gets elected Senator, which is all I was trying to list...Cicilline's low approvals do suggest that being mayor of Providence might not be the best stepping stone.  (A pity...he's my demographic twin, as I am also half-Jewish and half-Italian).  OTOH Cianci could probably be a Senator if he wanted (I believe he did once) and if he didn't get barred from future office as part of one of his convictions.

25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

[ Parent ]
He's already had an obvious fiasco
Providence Public Schools. Every teacher in the system got a pink slip.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Well, there goes that, then...(nt)


25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

[ Parent ]
I almost can't help but laugh
What was he thinking?  Stuff like that is reserved for Republicans...

[ Parent ]
Well, Providence is facing a huge budget deficit
and just because you're a Democrat in Providence doesn't mean you're buddy-buddy with the unions. See Cicilline for an example of a Democrat that the unions hate with a burning passion. During the 2008 primaries, Hillary even asked him not to appear at her rally in RI because the firefighters threatened to picket.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
now if only he's had an abortion
that's what I call the triple threat to right-wing Christians, with it being oxymoronic of course and not because he's man but because he's gay.  Unless we've strayed genders then we always get to choose when we want kids, lucky us!  I'm making sure I have a "Fuck Up" savings account stocked and ready to go.  There's daddy's cellphone in the toilet, time to tap the "Fuck Up".  Ha, and when they turn 14 I'll tell them it is also their college fund!  ShitMyKidsRuined.com.

[ Parent ]
Maryland is quite liberal
But I do honestly see her losing some blue collar Baltimore Democrats because she is a liberal black Democrat from the Washington suburbs. Indeed I think she might have to get past Chris Van Hollen, who I'd have to support as one of my favorite members of Congress and someone whose political skills I simply admire greatly. And sitting behind Rep. Van Hollen is Rep. John Sarbanes, Paul Sarbanes son, who is relatively young and with a strong backing in the Baltimore area. In both cases I don't think it would come down much to politics, though then if I were a voter, I'd have to judge by matters of style and temperament, and that's one area where I think Donna Edwards might lose to more professional politicians, (she also doesn't really have any real base of establishment backing in the state, unlike Van Hollen and Sarbanes, because the Prince George County people barely tolerate her). All in all, I'd say her chances would be tepid at best, though she'd have a good shot in 2016 if Van Hollen chose to continue moving on up in the house and Sarbanes decided to weight for Ben Cardin to (likely) retire in 2018.

[ Parent ]
I don't have any local MD knowledge, so thanks
I just meant that it was possible to write a plausible scenario for her.  (And the presumed frontrunner doesn't always run, after all--look at Beau Biden--but I don't doubt your ordering).

I am sorry for OTing this, but did you know that there's a list of all AA statewide officials?  Connecticut has had five,  all treasurer, which has been AA-held for 37 of the last 47 years.  I don't know why.  

25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)


[ Parent ]
I'd like some evidence of this please
the Prince George County people barely tolerate her).

She's a pretty standard progressive, up there in liberalism, but she's not making waves.  Although I don't know anything locally, but she seems fine statewide to me.  She won't do as well, but she'd have a long way to fall to get below 50%+1.


[ Parent ]
I think the point was
That her presumed issues with the PG county people (which I'd also like to have evidence for/know more about) would make it hard for her to get through a primary, not a general election--that she'd be a seemingly plausible candidate who doesn't go anywhere because the party lines up elsewhere.  Like with Jennifer Brunner or Dan Gelber.  But I don't know any more than you if that's the case.

25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

[ Parent ]
I don't know if you followed this
but the Democratic Party establishment in PGC, do not care for Edwards. She ousted Al Wynn, one of their big allies, and if much more liberal on economic issues than they tend to be. She's an outsider, and there was a lot of talk at one point about prominent primary challenger stepping forward but in the end no one did. She would not have them securely behind in her a statewide run against the likes of Sarbanes or Van Hollen.  

[ Parent ]
That's if the people of Maryland care what the DC suburban establishment
thinks. Donna Edwards defeated Wynn, a member of this establishment. There is obviously precedent for the voters to go against the establishment.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
My point
was that she will lack the regional party establishment backing that Sarbanes and Van Hollen would have on their side.  

[ Parent ]
There are exceptions
Certainly, Donna Edwards would be someone who could win a Senate seat and maybe Hansen Clarke in Michigan could pull off a win. Some VRA districts elect people who can crossover, but a lot of other districts don't, so it cuts both ways.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.

[ Parent ]
Yes, I forgot Clarke
Have you read this book about VRA districts?  Race, Redistricting, and Representation by David Canon.  It tries to analyze the differences between Congresspeople from majority-minority districts.  IIRC, one of the themes was that if the AA vote gets split in a primary, the white minority can prove decisive, and these Congresspeople are distinguishable from those elected without needing that support...dunno if that fits Clarke or Edwards since I don't know how the white vote split in their (contested) primarues.

25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

[ Parent ]
Clarke...
Got 47% of the vote against Kilpatrick in 2010, with Kilpatrick getting 41%, another AA, Glenn Plummer, getting 4%, and three candidates, of whom one of then (John Broad) I know is white, and other two I think are white, splitting the remaining 4%.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2...

Seeing as how the majority of the white population in MI-13, if they would vote in the primaries, would vote in the Democratic primary, my guess is even assuming that every single voter that choose Broad, Vincent Brown and Stephen Hume was white, since that still only adds up to 8% and Glenn Plummer does't have any cross-over appeal outside of extremely conservative religious blacks, my guess is Clarke probably got a majority of the white vote. Too bad they don't too exit polls for primaries in Michigan (or elsewhere?).  

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)


[ Parent ]
I would guess that both did fairly decent with white voters
Both of them defeated incumbents in primaries and sometimes when that happens in VRA districts, white voters do play a role. I haven't read that book, but it sounds like a good one to read.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.

[ Parent ]
Donna Edwards vs Albert Wynn would be a great case study
I could see it going two ways.  Edwards being too progressive and seen more as a product of latte sipping progressives blah blah stereotype with Wynn have the loyalty of the AA community.  But Wynn was knocked out for some banking related votes and that is absolutely not an issue you can cross the AA community on and the AA community went with Edwards because she represented their issues better, even if she supports gay marriage and what not.  

[ Parent ]
She's also fairly young and
would allow the comeback of an African American woman in the Senate since Moseley-Braun 13 years ago.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
MI redistricting?
Isn't Clarke's district on the chopping block for redistricting this year, as he loses out to all of his more senior neighbors?

I heard that from Detroiter I know, but I haven't seen anything about it around here.

22, male, conservative, VA-08 (residence), CA-15 (school)


[ Parent ]
Clarke's biggest threat...
Would be if he and Conyers were drawn into the same district, though since Clarke's district would most likely be the core of whatever district they both lived in he would most likely have a nominal geographic advantage. Plus, Clarke worked for Conyers on his staff for a long time, so my guess is that Conyers would retire in that scenario, though who knows with him.

There's also a chance John Dingell (who lives in Dearborn, right on the edge of both the current 13th and 14th districts) might be drawn into either Conyers or Clarke's district, but it's hard to see Dingell surviving in a majority AA district in a primary, or if Dingell is drawn in with Conyers the two going at each other. Believe it or not, Conyers was once a staffer for Dingell, which shows how long the two of them have been around.  

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)


[ Parent ]
Wow
Believe it or not, Conyers was once a staffer for Dingell, which shows how long the two of them have been around.

That's pretty crazy - never knew that. It's amazing that those two have so much seniority on everyone else. Dingell has ten years on Conyers, and Conyers has six years on the next most senior folks (Rangel and Bill Young).

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.


[ Parent ]
Yeah, it's crazy.
Just for the record, Conyers served on Dingell's staff from 1958-1961. So back when Eisenhower was president and before our current president was born, Conyers was a congressional staffer for John Dingell!

We are definitely a state of old fogies, inside of Congress and out. For people outside of Michigan, here's a glimpse of how old our congressional delegation is:

John Dingell: 1955
John Conyers: 1965
Dale Kildee: 1977
Carl Levin: 1979
Sander Levin: 1983
Fred Upton: 1987

Then came young buck Dave Camp in 1991, and the rest are after the turn of the millennium.

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)


[ Parent ]
Some here argue that
Clarke and Conyers will still get majority-minority districts and either Peters or Levin will end up with the short straw.

25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

[ Parent ]
If the state GOP tried to cut down to one Detroit district
they'd face a retrogression lawsuit. When you add in the various black-majority suburbs, there's still enough black population in metro Detroit for two districts. It will be one of the white Democrats who gets drawn out -- and it could conceivably be any of the four. (Kildee is probably the hardest to axe.)

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.

[ Parent ]
MD
I think Elijah Cummings would make a great senator and I hope Anthony Brown is the next governor... back to HI-Sen, Case has a shot to win, I think the more candidates, the better chance he has at the seat.

19,Democrat,MD-07(home),MD-02(High School),MD-07(college)

[ Parent ]
What would be the
difference between Cummings and Edwards?

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Cummings is my congressman
so I am biased... Donna Edwards would make a great senator too.

19,Democrat,MD-07(home),MD-02(High School),MD-07(college)

[ Parent ]
Those darn biases! ;p
Do the Washington DC suburbs or Baltimore have more control in Democratic primaries politics in Maryland?

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
?
Baltimore has been the traditional power... but I think in the future the D.C. Suburbs are likely going to have the most power. I remember in 2006, O'Malley (BAL) was leading Doug Duncan (Montgomery) in the primary before Duncan dropped out, but Franchot (Montgomery) beat Schaefer (BAL) and Janet Owens (AACo.) for Comptroller), and Doug Gansler (Montgomery) beat Stu Simms (BAL) for Attorney General, so I take that as a sign it is moving D.C.'s way.

19,Democrat,MD-07(home),MD-02(High School),MD-07(college)

[ Parent ]
Population trends help, I'm guessing
But let's keep from threadjacking.

25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

[ Parent ]
talking of people would could run for senate...
...in the future, Kweisi Mfume came close to beating Ben Cardin in '06 with very limited funds... but I only think he is an option if Cardin retires next year

19,Democrat,MD-07(home),MD-02(High School),MD-07(college)

[ Parent ]
I do believe you've left out
Ed Case's nasty, slash and burn primary against Mazie Hirono in the 2002 Democratic primary for Governor, (he just happened to get an opportunity to run in the Congressional election after that, when Patsy Mink died). His primary attempt was one of the main reasons Hirono lost to Linda Lingle in a narrow 2002 election campaign. So yeah, Ed Case is actually 1-3 in his attempts for higher office.

The guy's simply not been interested in working with the Hawaii Democratic party, indeed his entire career has been based on using the State Apparatus as his punching bag to score vague political points about the necessity of destroying the "Old Boys" network. I can't imagine any compelling reason why the Party Establishment would not go all out on him, and I feel he won't have the centrist field all to himself, as I feel Mufi Hanneman will also take this opportunity to move up, (it seems like he's been trying to for decades now), and he definitely takes votes from a more centrist group, (though he's also more socially conservative). I'm not sure that Mazie Hirono is the best path for Democrats or even the most likely one; she would be 65 years old on Election Day 2012, so she'd reasonably be, at most, a 3 term Senator. Which is not to say that is no an exceptionally long period of time. Just to say that she is quite old by the standards of freshman Senators.


Go
away Ed Case please! To quote former Aussie PM Paul Keating, Case will nothing but lead weight in the saddle bags, more weight for Obama and Reid to drag along.

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

Off-Topic
but this seems important...
"Milwaukee County DA, state board schedule news conference on 'significant investigation'"
http://www.jsonline.com/news/w...  

19,Democrat,MD-07(home),MD-02(High School),MD-07(college)

Oh, the suspense.
I hate when they leave so few details.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I could anything...
from 'everything fine' or 'more votes' to 'investigation'

19,Democrat,MD-07(home),MD-02(High School),MD-07(college)

[ Parent ]
It could


19,Democrat,MD-07(home),MD-02(High School),MD-07(college)

[ Parent ]
probably about the election
nate silver suggests that it was just an accident/incompetence rather than "OMG 7k votes appeared, it was stolen!!11!11!" and personally, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt unless evidence shows otherwise.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.n...

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.


[ Parent ]
If it was about the election, I doubt it's anything game changing
While I wouldn't mind it being "oops, we forgot to count 20K votes in the inner city," I sorta doubt that would happen. Although the Republican flip out that would ensue if it was that would be entertaining.

[ Parent ]
Please don't do this
We have six open threads a week. If it's truly important, then you can write a diary. If not, wait for the next open thread. Given that this link has no content at all, I doubt it even qualifies as "so important it has to be discussed right away." We'll find out what they're up to tomorrow. (And note, it's the MKE DA - doubt he or she has jurisdiction over Waukesha, which is where everyone's eyes are.)

[ Parent ]
From the JSOnline comments section...
Fresh from the rumor mill....
The results of the "significant investigation" that will be released today have to do with the investigation by the Milwaukee County District Attorney's office into alleged illegal campaign work on the part of Tim Russell and Darlene Wink, both of whom worked in Scott Walker's office during Walker's time as Milwaukee County Executive. Both Russell and Wink have allegedly been under investigation by the Milwaukee County DA's office due to allegations they engaged in illegal campaign work on behalf of Walker's gubernatorial campaign from their County offices and on County time. Russell's county-provided computer had previously been seized by the Milwaukee DA's office, and if I remember correctly, Wink's personal laptop may have been seized as well.

[ Parent ]
Doesn't sound credible
If they were were going to tell people that Walker runs government like a lying crook, why would they call it a NEWS conference? :P

[ Parent ]
Ed Case is a disaster
When i went to school at UH (2004-2008) I saw up close how terrible Case was (and still is). He is a true Blue Dog, and refused at the time to say he made a mistake supporting the Iraq War (said so in my political science class after the '06 election).

Here is an article I wrote about Case when he announced he was running against Senator Akaka: http://www.kaleo.org/2.13219/c...

Let's hope Mazie Hirono runs (State Senate Vice President Donna Mercado Kim would also be a disaster -- albeit for different reasons).

"Question Everything" Currently lives in CA-06 (previously lived in CA-14, CA-12, CA-09, HI-01)


What's wrong with her?
A quick Google shows she voted against the civil unions bill...that what you mean?

25, Dem, Dude seeing a dude, CT-04(originally), PA-02/NY-12(now)

[ Parent ]
Kim
She is known as the "dragon lady" inside the building -- staff is terrified of her. And yes civil unions are a big part of my hesitation of her potential candidacy.  

"Question Everything" Currently lives in CA-06 (previously lived in CA-14, CA-12, CA-09, HI-01)

[ Parent ]
"the dragon lady", seriously?
So many stories of state legislatures...

[ Parent ]
Well, if i would be in Hawaii -
i would, probably, vote for him. Alas - i am not)))

Can't you see Hawaii from your house?


[ Parent ]
Mentally - of course.


[ Parent ]
Haven't we warned you before
About expressing your personal preferences - which are, needless to say, not in sync with this site's community? If not, consider yourself warned. It's not really a good topic for anyone, but it's especially unwelcome when it comes to non-Democrats.  

[ Parent ]
David, a lot of people here express their support
or opposition to some candidates. I do no more. And in this race i support a Democrat. If you don't like him - it's your problems, not mine.. If you want to institute censorship here (taking Daily Kos as your mentor) - it's your business, but i will never be a "second class citizen" anywhere, especially - on supposedly "democratic" site. As i said to you many times - i will not be another man and i will never accept the role you are trying to impose on me. Ban me if you wish (that will be at least more or less honest), but don't try to silence. And don't try to be a "Democrat" after that - you are no better then Markos or similar people. In simple and clear language what you are doing is  called hypocrisy and sanctimony..

[ Parent ]
Sorry you refuse to fit in here
Our rules have been quite clear for a very long time that this is a home for Democrats, and that different rules apply for Democrats than Republicans or other non-Dems, which includes you. I'm not even going to engage any of your supposed "criticisms." (It's honestly embarrassing when someone cries "censorship" about a private website.) If you'd like to participate on a different site with different rules, you should create that site. I'm actually quite serious about that - that's why I created SSP in the first place, so I could have my own site.

Again I say, SSP is private property (something you apparently have a hard time grasping) - and you're not welcome here anymore.


[ Parent ]
No problems. I expected just that from YOU
Usual hypocrisy - invoking "private property" argument when there is nothing else....

[ Parent ]
Hmmm
this is a home for Democrats

Ed Case is a Democrat.  


[ Parent ]
Wow
There are, quite simply, a lot of people poking a hornet's nest today for no reason....

[ Parent ]
The user in question is an independent


[ Parent ]
and a giant pain in the ass
I'll always remember the back and forth on Blue Dogs with LordMike, I think it was, and I against him.  We talked politics, he just said well you guys are horrible liberals and support this because you hate Blue Dogs, I'm an Independent and like them more.  No political thought, no analysis, just I support them so I'm going to talk about why I like them.  Wrong site to just pimp a candidate and not explain why in a political context.  I dunno, talk about fundraising, how he dropped out of the Congressional race because the Dems probably promised him a free shot, better at getting votes, etc.

[ Parent ]
I think you have it backwards
As I've said elsewhere, my objection to smoltchanov's remarks had nothing to do with Ed Case. It had to do with who is speaking here, at SSP. As I've tried to make clear over and over again, this site is concerned with one thing:

1) Bloodless horserace analysis

It tolerates one further thing, even though it's often not a great topic of discussion:

2) Personal electoral preferences of Democratic users

It doesn't tolerate one final thing:

3) Personal electoral preferences of non-Democrats who are users

Smoltchanov regularly liked to tell us about his personal preferences. Smoltchanov is not a Democrat. This site was not interested in hearing about his personal preferences. I had asked him not to do that on prior occasions, but he refused. It so happens that in this one instance, he expressed support for a Democrat. On other occasions, it's been for Republicans. But as I said elsewhere, he could have said he wants Mazie Hirono to win and I still would have come down on him.

I'm sorry the optics didn't favor me here - maybe people would have understood the situation better had smoltchanov said he supported Michele Bachmann for president. But ya know, I've been running this community for a long time, and sometimes I have to make decisions at junctures which aren't necessarily the most ideal. I'm sorry that what I've done here has apparently confused some people (or made me look inconsistent), but I always try to be as clear as I can. I don't have secret rules, I don't play favorites, and I try to enforce the few guidelines we have consistently.

So let me just say: If a Democratic member of this site wants to make a case for Ed Case, that's fine by me. In fact, MinnesotaMike sorta did just that above. If they want to talk about how much they like Ed Case and how much they hope he wins, that's less fine, and I'd prefer not to have that discussion, but we'd probably navigate that okay. If a non-Democratic member of this site wants to talk about that topic, though, then it's not okay. And you can repeat the paragraph above and swap out "Ed Case" for almost any Democrat in the country - the answers are all still the same.

P.S. Ed Case himself could post diaries here and he'd be welcome to. I'm sure he'd get a ton of shit, and it wouldn't be a good use of his time, but he could. Heh, people regularly gave Kendrick Meek crap when he'd stop by, yet he (or at least, a staffer) kept showing up.


[ Parent ]
Sorry
I understand, its your site. BTW, I think it'd be hilarious if Ed Case showed up a posted a diary here.  

[ Parent ]
There's no need to apologize
I just try to be honest and consistent.

And yes, it would be funny if Ed Case showed up here... but then again, I think it would be a waste of time for almost any candidate to show up here. I'm comfortable enough saying that we're a medium-ish site at this point (I don't think we're genuinely "small" anymore), but I still don't think there are nearly enough eyeballs here to justify a candidate's time.


[ Parent ]
Here

Get over yourself. It would be one thing if you contributed positively to this community, but all you do is spout the same tired moderate hero crap over and over and over.

(David: If I've overstepped here, feel free to tell me and/or delete this, but I've been biting my tongue at smoltchanov's commentary for a LONG time.)


[ Parent ]
.
.

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.

[ Parent ]
I think the point is
more that Smolchanov, (and this is the issue of how he comes off to people), was that he would constantly raise the banner of moderacy from this sort of catch-all perspective; conservatives are wrong, liberals are wrong, the center is automatically right. It didn't so much appear that the user had specific ideological views, so much as they just stuck out some territory in between the two major parties. It often looked like he just intentionally back moderates, (who are much closer to the conservative side of the ideological spectrum than they are to the center; unlike in Europe the leftist party is, in America, closest to centrist views on economics and social affairs), just to back them, and did so in a manner that often annoyed other users.

Case is a, well, case in point. Sure people here dislike him because he is quite a DLC Democrat, but there are other dimensions too. One is that he's a holier-than-thou DLCer in the mold of Evan Bayh, and Two, he's cost Democrats a gubernatorial race and a congressional race in the past decade and tried to primary one of the progressive champions of the Senate, Daniel Akaka and actively sought to get Republicans to participate in the open primary in order to make it happen. He's an absurdly ambitious official, and anyone familiar with Hawaiian politics knows that Case has made a career out of bashing other Democrats and the Democratic establishment in order to make himself look good.  


[ Parent ]
David, as much as I dislike Ed Case
He is a D.

Your rationale could very easily be used to warn people on DK who don't like Jon Tester... or Jim Matheson... or Ben Nelson... or Mark Pryor... or...


[ Parent ]
I think the point is
Tester/Matheson/Nelson/Pryor would be too conservative for Hawaii too.  I don't know as though there is a converse argument that case is a better fit for Montana/Utah/nebraska/Arkansas, but I'm pretty sure its a better arguemtn than one saying case fits Hawaii.

[ Parent ]
Three points
1) All are Ds, unlike someone like Joe Lieberman, who publicly supported McCain and chooses to run as a member of a different party.

2) While I personally subscribe to the "most progressive electable" candidate concept, I thought the concept of this board was a focus on campaigns and elections. There is a legitimate argument that Case because of his relative moderation, is more electable in HI. (Nevertheless, I personally believe anyone but Alvin Greene would romp even against Lingle for HI-Sen '12.)

3) I named Tester/Matheson/Pryor/(Ben) Nelson because of the virtol that I've seen against them on DK. When DavidN says "not in sync with the site's community," that suggests to me that moderators at DK/DKE will actively warn users against supporting these Ds.


[ Parent ]
Again, think you're missing the point
Responses:

1.  At no point does simply having the D next to one's name make them a desirable candidate.  This board is more about progressives than about Democrats, it just so happens they coincide more than a progressive republican, whatever that is.

2.  No one is advocating a generic R (or Lingle) over Case, just positing that a better D is not only plausible but is a desirable option.  Also, Case's electability argument you offer seems to run contrary to his actual electoral results, which are not good.

3.  Comparing Tester/Matheson/Pryor/Nelson is not similar, because each state is different.  Utah has no Dem bench, Arkansas is rapidly reddening, Nelson is pretty much our only hope to hold that seat and I think most support Tester's re-election (as opposed to a primary challenge).  I don't think comparing Tester in MT and Case in HI is a logical comparison.  Tester's moderate stances are needed in MT, Hawaii isn't nearly as red and as such could certainly elect someone more progressive...and has a history of doing so.


[ Parent ]
Perhaps I'm not being clear
1) I believe this is a Democratic site. If DavidN, etc. specify differently, then so be it. But I would hope that as a Democratic site, D users (as well as respectful R users) who are not progressives or liberals should feel welcome. (I think it's a bad sign that users like RuralDem are no longer active here.)

2) A discussion of Case's electability should be welcomed here. A supporter of Case would be a better proponent of such an argument.

3) One of my big fears, post-merger, is that the site's community will change. And David's statement: "not in sync with this site's community" suggests that the discussion that's allowed will change.

Post-merger, regular DK users will migrate to DKE, including users who are hostile to the Ds that I named. At that point, support for Ds like Tester/Matheson/Pryor/(Ben)Nelson -- or Ed Case -- would "not in sync with this site's community".


[ Parent ]
To a point
But at the end of the day we are guests in David's house and we have to follow his rules. Personally, I'm glad our moderate independent Russian friend just got the boot because he had a higher horse than even our Republican posters.

[ Parent ]
Ugh really?
Can you stop with this "suggests" business? I'm not a cup of tea whose leaves must be read. You even wrote that after I clarified what you didn't properly understand the first time. Please stop looking to confirm your worst nightmares by taking little lines directed at non-Democrats out of context and turning them into new codes of conduct for the entire site. You are being quite cruel.

I'm going to say it one last time, even though my patience has long since evaporated: My comment to smoltchanov had nothing to do with who he was supporting. It had to do with the fact that a) he's not a Democrat and b) I don't find it particularly helpful when people blab on about their personal preferences.

Indeed, smoltchanov's comment was completely content-free. It was just him rooting for someone. BOR-ring. The point of this site, first and foremost, is to explain what we think will happen. What we want to happen takes a back seat to that discussion. And if you're not a Dem, what you want to happen is generally something we don't want to hear about. It may be that non-Dems' preferences occasionally line up with Dems' preferences. Doesn't matter. It's a lot easier to be consistent about this rule than it is to start carving out case-by-case exceptions like that.


[ Parent ]
Dear David, fwiw
Believe it or not, I do wish you well.

In addition, I did not see your clarification shown here http://www.swingstateproject.c... about "personal preferences" until after I made my previous comment.

I was responding to user rdw72777's comments on the nature of this site. Since you clarified, my previous comments do not apply to you or SSP.

In addition, I think the moment you banned user smoltchanov gave him the mantle of victimhood. There's a "kabuki" to the way he irritated people, and I think you could have let it develop further, if/until he got up on his high horse again. But the timing was and is your choice.

User conspiracy is right, I have to remember, this is "your house" thus, your rules. If it is now your rule to no longer express my doubts about the transition, I will respect that.


[ Parent ]
RuralDem doesn't post here because he got smacked down
by the election gods.  I feel bad for the guy and after being the most prolific arguer with him, I'd say he probably took the election harder than just about anyone else in the country.  I'd buy him a beer, or three.

[ Parent ]
Funny
Tietack's right, I've become a lurker.

If you actually look, you'll see that I posted quite a bit until February. I blame it on school. The election certainly did not go my way in most of the races, but, I'm still a Democrat.

I'm still here lurking, at least until the move to dKos. I really wanted to post my thoughts a few times in that thread, but it's not difficult to figure out my view. Regardless of political view, I think it is great, and well deserved, for DavidNYC and the others to have an ability to move to a larger platform and possibly reach more people.

Anyway, Ed Case's entry is certainly interesting. I'm still trying to understand the DLC remarks I keep reading. I don't view him as a centrist, though I guess the issue has more to do with his attitude/approach than his ideology itself.


[ Parent ]
Ya know, I'm long past tired of this
I named Tester/Matheson/Pryor/(Ben) Nelson because of the virtol that I've seen against them on DK. When DavidN says "not in sync with the site's community," that suggests to me that moderators at DK/DKE will actively warn users against supporting these Ds.

So I'm going to personally warn myself away from supporting Jon Tester? Someone I've supported since May of 2005 and raised over $4,000 for? Someone I've made it clear I still support regardless of how others might feel? You might want to Google before you make stuff up.

Indeed, you have done almost everything you can to not give me the benefit of the doubt, and to spin fantasies about things that don't exist or won't happen, almost going out of your way to envision the most distasteful possible things occurring when we move over to DK.

I'm honestly insulted by this. We've given you endless free top-quality content for years, and have spent considerable time moderating this community to ensure it stays unusually welcoming. Yet instead of saying, "Thanks, DavidNYC. I have some anxieties about the upcoming transition, but I respect your track record and I'll give it a shot," you keep coming up with scenarios almost deliberately designed to test your own gag reflex, with virtually no grounding in reality.

You did this for days and days after I announced the transition, almost alone among commenters here. Now you're back at it again. I'm tired of you taking every thing I say and spinning it into the most absurd possible outcomes, and I'm tired of having to talk you down from your made-up ledges. Obviously my long history means nothing to you, my credibility is at zero with you. Well, that's not my failing. And my patience isn't infinite.

To everyone else: I'm happy to discuss any and all of your concerns about the upcoming move. (And no, sorry, I still don't have an exact date - I'm at the mercy of the programmers.) But please don't believe everything you read about it on the Internets.


[ Parent ]
Not sure you understood my 2nd sentence properly
It doesn't have to do with Case's party, but with smoltchanov's. Smoltchanov has repeatedly said he's not a Democrat. And we have pretty clear rules around here about the kind of behavior we expect from Dems vs. non-Dems.

We also have guidelines about discussing personal preferences, which take a back seat (a distant back seat) to discussing things bloodlessly. This goes even more so for non-Democrats who wish to participate here. Smoltchanov could have said he was supporting Hirono and I'd have said the same thing - but it's even more provocative when someone in that position expresses positive feelings toward someone almost the entire rest of the site recoils at.


[ Parent ]
looking over wikipedia articles on candidates
both aiona and schatz are shown with a lei around their neck.  this doesn't add much (anything) but it's fun.

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

potential candidates i meant
n/t

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

[ Parent ]
Dan Inouye's List of Successors
http://www.khon2.com/news/loca...

Asked whether because of a retirement, a primary challenge or eventual succession who would be strong contenders, Inouye listed in this order: Rep. Colleen Hanabusa, Lt. Gov. Brian Schatz, Rep. Mazie Hirono, Gov. Neil Abercrombie and Mufi Hannemann. Asked about former Congressman Ed Case, Inouye said him, too, and added Veterans Affairs Department Assistant Secretary Tammy Duckworth.


I wish SSP had Academy Awards for threads
I'd nomiate this thread for the following categories:

"Thread to go off the rails fastest" - it took all of 3 comments

"Most off topic thread" - Massachusetts serfs, the "unmentionable" accustaions, and this thread is barely 12 hours old


Yeah, two users banned because of one thread.
That has to be a SSP record (although both had it coming for a while).

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)

[ Parent ]
2 bannings
a great round of discussing experiences with Catholics, racism, so many off-topic warnings, some off-topics that were worth discussing even though I shouldn't have.  Easily in my top five threads.  Sorry David, I doubt you found it this way, but on my end I've been making popcorn.

[ Parent ]
.
I find it unfortunate... Some people really just don't understand the contrast between that they want to happen and what they think will happen. Sometimes even I cross that line, and when I do please tell me to can it. I'd like to remain a member of this community.

That being said, David, I'm sorry that some individuals forced your hand today and if I ever start getting on your nerves, feel free to email me about it and I'll adjust my comments accordingly.

Case isn't going to win a primary. Period. He's too conservative for the Democratic party, let alone the state. I do, however, see value in his participation. PPP's recent poll showed him doing marginally better vis-a-vis named Republicans than other Democrats. The fact that politicians in general suck at comprehending reality (Case's interest here is a good example) means to me that stronger Republicans may be scared away from this race as Case really is the "strongest" candidate that Democrats could nominate. This practically ensures that whomever emerges from the primary (not Case) will be a hell of alot better off and will win in a blowout... not that it matters anyway, whoever the Democrats nominate will win convincingly.  

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.


[ Parent ]
And I've
been neglecting finishing a biotech take-home test to read this thread. I'm a bad, baaad girl... :P

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
What kind of primary is it?
I didn't notice any comments on this, so sorry if it is repetitive and I just missed it.

Is this another "jungle primary" like the one that let Djou slip by in HI-01?  Or is it an open, semi-open, or closed Dem primary (is there even party registration in the state)?

If its any of the latter, Machiavellian side of me is picturing perhaps some Hawaii Republicans crossing over (in an open or semi-open) to vote for Case if the field is split between Case and two or more noteworthy liberal/progressive candidates.  I'd figure they'd think that the chances of electing a Republican in the general are slim, with even Lingle not looking good should she choose to get in, so instead they try to get the most conservative choice they can.

Obviously, that's a lot of 'ifs.'  I don't even know if there would be enough Republicans or conservative-leaning independents in the state to really monkey with the numbers anyhow.  I'll just keep my fingers crossed that Hirono gets in and clears the field.

28, Male, MI-09 (home), MD-07 (school)


The jungle primary is only for special elections
and the legislature is on the verge of changing that to an instant runoff system. There's no party registration in Hawaii, so it's an open primary.

[ Parent ]
Which is why
Ed Case's big point in 2006 was to get independents and Republicans to vote for him in the Democratic primary. Which they did; it's partially why he came so close to Akaka.  

[ Parent ]
I think Case only has a shot in a three-way
A four-person race without Hannemann and he's probably the front-runner. I just can't fathom him defeating Hirono in a one-on-one. At this point, he's ceiling probably in the low-40s, with a floor in the high-20s. My hunch, actually, is that Hirono and Hannemann both run, with Hanabusa a real possibility, too.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

Is there a sore loser law?
The whole thing could get very intriguing if there isn't a sore loser law and all 4 of these people run.

[ Parent ]
Case leads primary
According to this poll. Don't see the numbers but they reckon Hirono is at least third.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/G...


Now I see
Pretty useless really. I doubt they all run.

Case 22
Hannemann 17
Hirono 13
Hanabusa 10


[ Parent ]
If Hannemann passes, Case probably emerges the favorite
That is, if Hirono and Hanabusa both run, too. This poll seems to suggest a lot of moderates, maybe even some liberals, are backing the more conservative candidates.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

[ Parent ]
Both running will never happen.


23, liberal democrat, SSP Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college);   DKos: HoosierD42

[ Parent ]
That is my thinking
Inouye more than likely holds sway here.

[ Parent ]
That poll is crap. There is no way
both Hirono and Hanabusa run. On the other hand Mufi might run and he is a conservative Democrat. Meaning they will split the conservative vote. Neither Case nor Mufi are very popular with the Democratic primary base. When Hirono enters she will become the frontrunner. She is the most popular person in the party.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]

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