Google Ads


Site Stats

Other evidence that Illinois is very swingy: caution needed before we overreach with a 14-4 map

by: jsramek

Sat Apr 09, 2011 at 10:40 PM EDT


I am as partisan a Democrat as most people on this website.  As an Illinoisan, I am dismayed that my state elected five freshmen Republicans last fall but very grateful (for a whole lot of other reasons besides redistricting) that Governor Quinn just managed to hold on.  Otherwise we would be looking at another "incumbent protection" map, which in a state that just elected five freshmen GOP congressmen last fall, would be tantamount to a GOP gerrymander.

Various would-be mappers such as Silverspring have proposed 14-4 maps that would make Delay and Phil Burton proud.  But many of these maps go by Obama 2008 data, which is a fundamentally flawed data set to be basing districts on in my very educated opinion.  On the surface maps provided by such places as usaelection.org, you can see counties like Kendall and Grundy and Stephenson and McHenry (just to name a few) that wound up in Obama's column in 2008.  No seasoned Democratic politician in Illinois would ever call these counties that are Democratic by any means.  Perhaps as suburban/exurban areas of McHenry and Kendall start to fill up and become more swingy, those counties might change.

This diary, however, focuses on a slightly different problem with the Obama 2008 data when compared against Kerry 2004 downstate (where it models pretty accurately - I understand the concerns people have about Cook and Dupage which may be a bit bluer now in 2011 but that trend is not noticeable anywhere outside of Chicagoland).  The problem is this: several of the downstate cities that mappers such as myself and Silver Spring and others count on to create as many Democratic-leaning districts as we can, aren't really all that blue to begin with.  In other cases, such as Decatur and Urbana-Champaign, they are quite blue, but turnout is a problem.  Follow me across the jump where I demonstrate this using a new district I have been creating in most of my maps - a new 13th which disappears in Chicagoland and reappears as a vacant downstate cities seat.

jsramek :: Other evidence that Illinois is very swingy: caution needed before we overreach with a 14-4 map
Photobucket

On first glance this district ought to be safely Democratic, even in 2004.  It isn't entirely so.  Believe it or not, but Bush got 49% of the vote in this district (and the narrow tendrils connecting the various cities together only amount to about 30k residents so that isn't the problem so much).  The district is good enough for my standards, though, because Obama did get 59%.  By Cook PVI it is a D+4, perhaps not completely safe from a meltdown of 2010 proportions but most Republicans cannot win in districts any more Democratic than this, and other than Tim Johnson, there is no sitting Republican congressman from this area of the state who could have cross-over appeal.  Even then, Tim Johnson is not a Mark Kirk, and it would take a Mark Kirk for the GOP to win this seat.  So I think it is reasonably safe Team Blue, probably as safe as can be drawn in fact.

In most other parts of the country, a 51% Kerry, 59% Obama seat would be considered safely Democratic.  But again, pay attention to that swing.  At 8% it is a bit larger than nationwide if not as extreme as the 10-12% swings found everywhere in Chicagoland.  When one looks at the cities, you see what I am discussing (with the order of the numbers being Dem-Rep):

Peoria: 28,542-18,536 in 2008; 24,795-22,398 in 2004

Danville: about 8,000 - about 4,500 in 2008; about 7,500-about 5,000 in 2004 (Does anybody know where I can find Danville or Vermillion precinct numbers; their elections website is among the most unhelpful I have ever experienced?)  I calculated this by assuming, for the sake of argument, that the out-city areas of Vermillion were equally as red as the out-city areas of Champaign County next door but I could be slightly off in either direction.

Champaign-Urbana: 32,618-13,408 in 2008; 28,814-17,222 in 2004

Bloomington: 17,578-15,167 in 2008; 13,628-17,154 in 2004

Normal: 12,257-9,197 in 2008; 9,555-10,570 in 2004

Springfield: 32,463-24,019 in 2008; 24,650-28,971 in 2004

I am progressing slower than normal with my maps because it has occurred to me that there are really three scenarios that have to be taken into consideration.  Scenario A: a tactically conservative but aggressive in every other sense map that would lock down 13 Kerry districts (Rockford going together with Rock Island; the 14th going into downtown Joliet, etc.).  Scenario B: a more risky 12-4-2 map that would put Joliet in a swing seat as well as Melissa Bean in another one in the north part of Chicagoland.  Scenario C finally would aim for a 12-5-1 which would shore up Melissa Bean while pushing a Kane seat into Rockford, which would then make the downstate cities seat very swingish (voted for Bush 53-47 then flipped to Obama 55-45).

Personally I would opt for Scenario A if I were drawing the map and not try to do a 14-4.  Unfortunately with Citizens United, the money game is even more unstacked in our disfavor.  Our ticket should get a bump with Obama on the top of the ticket, but then what about the remaining four elections in the decade-long period that any map would be operative?  Finally, another reason to be aggressive when possible but tactically conservative, drawing maps more according to Kerry or 2010 congressional data rather than Obama: Illinois is notorious for split-ticket voters.  In the weeds work I have been doing up in Chicago suburbia, I cannot tell you how often a precinct that voted 60-40 for Obama voted also in the same election for Biggert or Roskam.  And that was in 2008!  Chicago suburbia is full of independents and moderates.  

That being said, it is possible to draw 13 Kerry seats to only 5 Bush seats, and if 13-5 were achieved in 2012, that would still mean -6 GOP, +5 Dem.  That is nothing to snuff at.

Tags: , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email

Just out of curiosity
Do you find the following trendlines significant, or irrelevant?

Springfield

2000 Census: 81.0% White
2010 Census: 75.7% White

Peoria

2000 Census: 69.3% White
2010 Census: 62.3% White

Champaign

2000 Census: 73.2% White
2010 Census: 67.7% White

Bloomington

2000 Census: 84.9% White
2010 Census: 77.4% White

Decatur

2000 Census: 77.6% White
2010 Census: 71.7% White


significant but when you look at the turnout in 2010...
these voters didn't vote.  Anywhere in Illinois where it could have mattered.  It is the primary reason I believe we lost five seats in the state.

[ Parent ]
Yes, but
2010 was an exceptional year. It honestly perplexes me that you use that as a standard for much of anything. Granted, I might be missing how you're factoring 2010 into your thinking, but if Democrats were to redistrict as if 2010 was the 'new normal' then they'd be redistricting themselves into a permanent minority. They would be packing far more Democrats into Democratic districts than is ordinarily necessary.

Of course, it's not as if Democrats have many places they control the process, but Illinois happens to be one of them. You can't plan for something like 2010. You redistrict according to the typical baseline and then hope you don't get hit by a 'perfect storm' election.

In fact, Jerry Costello is a good example of how you cannot predict a 2010 type election. He cruised to reelection in a far more marginal district than those of many Democrats who lost.


[ Parent ]
For outside the Chicago media market
I have found that the best standard is to go by Kerry 2004... not too rosy (Obama 2008 particularly north of Springfield) or too pessimistic (cities all over the place in the state where you would expect a decent 2010 Democratic congressional vote and it doesn't exist because our candidates got creamed in all those Republican seats).  In the Chicago area, however, the three data sets provide interesting information about turnouts that I am keeping them.  Our suburban turnout in 2010 modeled similarly to 2004; even though we lost three congressional districts in this area, the reason we lost each one of them had more to do with the appendages going outside of the Chicago media markets.  I also using the 2010 numbers to know when I created a GOP vote sink; for example the district I am drawing on most of maps snaking through the GOP area of Kane, through to Wheaton and Downers Grove down to Homer, Frankfort and other GOP areas in Will would have voted Obama 52% in 2008.  Doesn't mean that it is R+1 however, because both the 2010 and 2004 data correlate what my gut tells me knowing a thing or two about local Illinois politics, that this district actually only can be expected to perform 42-45% Democratic at the congressional ballot level.  


[ Parent ]
Fair enough
That actually sounds about right to me.

The only thing that I would add for now is that you could certainly draw this seat to be more Democratic. The map below should give you an idea of where you want to go. In particular, you are including very heavily Republican precincts in northern Peoria while bypassing Democratic precincts in Springfield and Tazewell County.



[ Parent ]
Very good diary
This raises an important question, and I agree with your point as it applies just to Illinois. But I think we have to look at the question in a national context, and to ask what, ultimately, is the goal behind doing a partisan gerrymander?

An obvious initial answer is that the goal is to maximize the number of safe seats for your party. But I think this is wrong. Instead, the goal is to maximize your party's chances of winning a national majority.

This is especially true in the case of the House of Representatives, which is very strongly majoritarian. Increasing your party's seats from 200 to 201 makes very little difference, because it does not change control of the House. On the other hand, going from 217 to 218 seats makes a huge difference, by changing the majority. It's true that the exact size of the majority/minority matters somewhat because members do not always vote the party line, but the difference between a 20 seat majority and a 21 seat majority or a 10 seat minority and a 9 seat minority pales in comparison to the difference you get from going from a 1 seat minority to a 1 seat majority.

Simply put, it's just not possible for Democrats to draw 218 safely Democratic Congressional Districts, especially given the fact that Republicans control redistricting in more states than Democrats.

The playing field of districts is going to be tilted heavily in the GOP's favor this round of redistricting. So in the states where Democrats do control the process, they need to create as many seats that they could potentially win as possible, because that is the most plausible path to winning a majority.

I would not deny that going for 14-4 or 13-5 in Illinois, or 8-0 in Maryland is necessarily "safe" in the sense that those states would always and under all conditions vote to elect such strong Democratic delegations. But if Democrats want to have a chance to take over the House in the next decade, they are going to need every last competitive (note - not safe, but competitive) seat they can wring out of states like Illinois and Maryland, because they're definitely not going to find them in states like Ohio and Michigan where the GOP controls the process.

Dems are going to have to win back swing districts (and probably GOP leaning swing districts at that) to win a majority. They can't do this if they don't draw any.


so five seats
will not help out on that?  I can draw a map with 13 Kerry seats.... that compares to 10 districts he actually won in 2004 under the current lines.  To go from 9 Bush districts to just 5 isn't relevant to the larger aim at recapturing the House?

In states like PA, OH, and MI, the Republicans maxed out 10 years ago.  In other states like FL, there's a fair electoral districts initiative that ought to help out things.  I agree there are other states like NC that we could be screwed, but it is nowhere as dire as abgin suggested in his recent diary.


[ Parent ]
Five seats would definitely help
I'm just not at all sure that 5 would help enough to make it possible to win a majority.

If Democrats are going to win back the House, they will have to do it by winning overwhelming majorities (not just majorities, but overwhelming majorities) in the delegations of CA, NY, IL, the New England states, and a few others like MD and HI. Then those will have to be combined with enough seats cobbled together from the rest of the country to get over 218.

It's a mistake to say that the GOP controlled the process in PA/OH/MI in 2000, so therefore they're maxed out and can't do any further damage. Each of those states is going to be eliminating at least one (in the case of Ohio, maybe even two) Democratic districts. Those districts will then be re-created in states like Utah and Texas (unless the Voting Rights Act gets in the way). In places where Dem districts are not eliminated outright, the GOP will be able to shore up its seats by adding inner suburbs to the existing Dem districts. An example of that would be the Philadelphia suburbs, where GOP gains in 2010 will be sured up at least somewhat because the most Dem parts of the GOP districts will be transferred to the 3 Dem held districts. That's not to say the GOP will be outright safe there, but they will very definitely be improving their position.

Also, a number of the seats in the 2006/2008 majority that were lost in 2010 were seats like MS-04, TN-04, FL-02, or even ND at large. Those are seats that we are never going to win back, or at least will only win back under extreme circumstances. To make up for those, it will be necessary to find new winnable/competitive districts, principally in Northern and Western suburban areas.

I'm not that optimistic that FL will necessarily be worth more than 2 or 3 Dem seats. Republicans will still be able to gerrymander there, it's just that the gerrymander will have to look more like in Michigan.


[ Parent ]
I would stop
saying that we are never, ever going to win back seats. It's hard to say exactly what some of these districts will look like, but if they aren't truly ridiculous, we should make a play for everything that we've recently held. We will need to run the right candidates, of course, but we shouldn't automatically concede huge chunks of the country from the outset.

Along the same lines, we need to think bigger. I don't mean to beat a dead horse with this example, but in 2008, in Mike Pence's district, Obama received 46 percent of the vote. Yes, it was a good Democratic year, and yes, Obama did benefit from both contesting the state like McCain didn't and being from a neighboring state, but he still received 46 percent of the vote. Meanwhile, Barry Welsh, the Democratic candidate, was destroyed. That's not surprising, of course, but the question is whether he could have gotten closer. I think he could have. There's clearly no huge aversion to Democrats in the district, based on Obama's performance. We just need to, you know, ask for their votes, which we clearly didn't do in 2008, based on the spending habits of each candidate. Yes, it will be expensive to contest additional seats, but Obama will have a lot of money for his reelection, and there looks to be a strong overlap between where he might campaign and where we might pick up long shot seats in addition to the usually contested ones. Why not run a unified campaign and see what happens?

Also, HI and MD? Did I miss something? Aren't we already doing well in those states?

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
MD and HI
I think the idea about these two states was that Dems need to consolidate their hold on states like MD, eliminate any remaining Republicans if possible, and avoid any events like the split HI-01 special election.

[ Parent ]
Ever winning those seats vs. those seats tipping control of the house
I agree that it's not necessarily impossible to win back seats like MS-04, TN-04, FL-02, or ND-AL. I agree also that Dems should not just write them off or not contest them.

But MS-04 voted 31% for Kerry and 32% for Obama. That's a steep hill to climb.

TN-04 voted 41% for Kerry and 34% for Obama. Another steep hill to climb.

FL-02 voted 46% for Kerry and 45% for Obama. A steep hill to climb (though admittedly not as bad as the first two).

ND-AL voted 36% for Kerry and 45% for Obama...

Yes, local voting patterns may still be more Democratic than presidential voting patterns in these districts, but the ongoing trend in politics is that it is becoming increasingly nationalized, not localized. Tip O'Neill used to be right that "all Politics is Local," but that's not the case any more in a world where people increasingly get news from the national media and the national internet, rather than the local paper copy newspaper or the local 6 o'clock news.

The tipping point seats for control of the house are going to be seats like MN-03 (Kerry 48, Obama 52), MI-04 (Kerry 44, Obama 50), CA-03 (Kerry 41, Obama 49), and dare I say it WI-01 (46 Kerry, Obama 51). Disregard for the moment the fact that those seats are going to change in redistricting - I'm not really talking about these seats in particular, but rather about seats with these sorts of characteristics (northern, western, or midwestern traditionally GOP suburban seats). In the early 2000s, people generally did not seriously think that Democrats would win traditionally Republican non-southern suburban seats like IL-08, PA-08, or CA-11. The path of least resistance to win a majority in the next decade is to once again win similar seats to those, and find more seats like those that right now we would not think are winnable to replace the TN-04s of the world. I'm not saying that's an easy path - it's not. But it's an easier path than hoping that if we just nominate some southerny and conservativey enough, we'll win back TN-04 (or even TN-08, for that matter).

In the right year, with a strong candidate, maybe Democrats can win back seats like MS-04, TN-04, FL-02, or ND-AL. But if we do, those will be seats #240 or #250. They would be the icing on the cake, not the seats that win a majority.

Basically, winning a majority requires rescuscitating the sorts of seats won by people like Melissa Bean, Patrick Murphy, and Suzan Kosmas, not the sorts of seats won by people like John Tanner, Alan Boyd, and Chet Edwards. Again, I'm not saying that we should write off the next Bobby Bright, but the person who wins seat #218 is going to be a northern/midwestern/western suburban Democrat in the mold of Betsy Markey, not a southern/plains rural Democrat in the mold of Ike Skelton.

Audrid has it right in his comment about what I meant with HI/MD.


[ Parent ]
Well, yes,
but then someone like Ben Chandler or Heath Schuler is also part of that equation. And of course, we don't want 218, but something a lot higher. Perhaps it's not that likely, but it's not impossible for us to have a bad year in one particular state but be saved by winning or holding a few marginal seats. In most cases, winning a seat usually gives you a huge leg up when running for reelection, unless you are Joseph Cao or someone similar. In Kansas in 2008, it wasn't a particularly great Democratic year, but Nancy Boyda still managed to post a respectable total despite being defeated. Maybe it was just bound to happen given the leanings of the area, but her margin was small enough that had she done a few things differently, she might have won. Of course, she could have been wiped out in 2010, but had she hung on by the skin of her teeth, like Ben Chandler, her seat would have been one less that we would need to get back. Maybe she would have been screwed in redistricting, or maybe she would have simply bought more time until they took her seat back, but the first step to getting reelected is to get elected.

I get what you are saying, and I agree with it for the most part, but we are still thinking too narrowly.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
One thing I don't exactly understand …
You wrote several things here:

"... the district is good enough for my standards, though, because Obama did get 59%.  By Cook PVI it is a D+4, perhaps not completely safe from a meltdown of 2010 proportions but most Republicans cannot win in districts any more Democratic than this ..."

and..

" ... Scenario A: a tactically conservative but aggressive in every other sense map that would lock down 13 Kerry districts ... personally I would opt for Scenario A if I were drawing the map and not try to do a 14-4..."

In the map I drew 13 of the 14 Democratic districts had an Obama percentage higher than 59% (actually, 13 were 61% Obama or higher) with my IL-11 (same general area as your IL-13 here) being the exception at 59% ...

Also, all 14 of the districts I drew were Kerry districts (with only one estimated at 51% Kerry, again IL-11), the others all higher ...

I understand that this is kind of a discussion re. what an Obama "baseline" should be in IL and I appreciate that ... but if you're advocating some sort of higher Obama percentage "baseline" (or Democratic performance "baseline") what do you think it should be ??

and, of course, it would not need to be a uniform baseline across the state as  the Kerry to Obama shift in IL was not uniformly distributed:

Photobucket


fwiw
This is the current configuration of my comparable district. It's 58.74% Obama to 39.28% McCain. I'm reasonably confident that Tim Johnson would not win this district, and I actually plan to refine it some more to push up the Obama percentage further.

Not to mention I've cut Johnson's address out of this district anyhow.



[ Parent ]
thanks ...
I did something similar (similar concept, though somewhat different lines and cities included) in this part of IL, and part of this is definitely not just the partisan data but how existing GOP incumbents are messed with in terms of constituents (ie. cutting huge portions of their constituents out of the new districts) ...

I still would like to hear from jsramek re. my "baselines" question above -- ??


[ Parent ]
The whole concept is problematic
I've tried at least a half dozen different ways of creating a valid 'Obama adjustment' so to speak. One thing that I realized swiftly enough, as you point out, is that the 'Obama boost' varied drastically across the state. One method that I tried to account for this was to adjust the Obama numbers to match the Kerry percentages by county, but I've realized that this effectively erases whatever demographic shifts took place in the intervening four years (to say nothing of the 8 years between 2004 and 2012).

It's a dilemma that I haven't yet resolved to my satisfaction. I'm certainly open to proposed solutions myself. In the meantime, I'll keep working at putting together a full 2008 Obama/McCain precinct-by-precinct dataset for Illinois. I'm getting close now. It will obviously be a heck of a lot easier to manipulate Illinois maps if Dave gets election data uploaded.


[ Parent ]
For the time being
I've been focusing on the three downstate Democratic seats that I intend to have: basically the mid-cities district, the East St Louis district, and the Rock Island district. Once I'm satisfied that I've made those three as Democratic as possible, then I'll map the majority-minority seats in Chicago and the three downstate Republican seats (IL-18, IL-11, and whatever number the Shimkus district gets). After I see how far I can push IL-11 into the GOP areas of the collar counties, I'll be able to assess what I have left to work with.

[ Parent ]
Peoria Warning
Oh, and a quick warning for anyone who may be working with Peoria city data. The actual precinct numbers do not match up with the numbers on Dave's App. Here are the correct numbers. The first number is the correct precinct number and the second number is the number given that precinct on Dave's App.

City 1: 1
City 2: 2
City 3: 7
City 4: 70
City 5: 4
City 6: 3
City 7: 5
City 8: 6
City 9: 8
City 10: 9
City 11: 10
City 12: 11
City 13: 17
City 14: 18
City 15: 16
City 16: 15
City 17: 13
City 18: 14
City 19: 12
City 20: 28
City 21: 76
City 22: 79
City 23: 26
City 24: 29
City 25: 30
City 26: 81
City 27: 42
City 28: 31
City 29: 33
City 30: 32
City 31: 27
City 32: 86
City 33: 19
City 34: 21
City 35: 22
City 36: 75
City 37: 87
City 38: 20
City 39: 89
City 40: 24
City 41: 23
City 42: 65
City 43: 64
City 44: 43
City 45: 91
City 46: 68
City 47: 103
City 48: 102
City 49: 44
City 50: 61
City 51: 85
City 52: 97
City 53: 96
City 54: 75
City 55: 54
City 56: 45
City 57: 46
City 58: 40
City 59: 39
City 60: 41
City 61: 35
City 62: 34
City 63: 77
City 64: 36
City 65: 37
City 66: 38
City 67: 53
City 68: 52
City 69: 49
City 70: 47
City 71: 48
City 72: 107
City 73: 50
City 74: 51
City 75: 62
City 76: 57
City 77: 83
City 78: 73
City 79: 56
City 80: 55
City 81: 66
City 82: 74
City 83: 99
City 84: 72
City 85: 100
City 86: 93
City 87: 58
City 88: 63
City 89: 101
City 90: 59
City 91: 60
City 92: 106
City 93: 105


[ Parent ]
data for Tazewell
What data have you been able to get for Tazewell?  I was imagining going by the topline figures in both 2004 and 2008 that there were Democratic pockets but Tazewell like Vermillion has eluded my attempts thus far to get precinct-by-precinct tabulations.

[ Parent ]
Tazewell & Vermilion


[ Parent ]
Much appreciated!
I think i can safely guess what the Kerry 04 data would have been for these precincts by modelling it based on the county as a whole.  I am also impressed how close I was in my guess yesterday as to how Danville split.

Thanks again.


[ Parent ]
You're quite welcome!
As I said, I'm attempting to collect precinct data for the entire state so I can send that to Dave & get it uploaded to the App. These are the counties I'm still missing in part or in full:

No Data

Alexander
Bond*
Brown*
Cass
De Witt*
Hancock
Kankakee*
Morgan*
Putnam
Richland
Scott
White

Township Level Only

Jackson*
Marion
Randolph*
Union*
Wayne

Partial Data

Stark (I have Obama & McCain numbers but not "Other" - which isn't really a big deal, but I like consistency)

The asterisk counties are ones that I've contacted via email last week, and am either still awaiting a reply or am awaiting data by mail. This coming week I plan to attempt to contact the remaining counties by phone, and then go back and take more aggressive measures on those that I haven't received a reply to email.

Several counties responded almost immediately after I emailed on Thursday, so I'm hoping to get a good number more next week.


[ Parent ]
wow...
I think everyone on this website will be grateful for all your efforts.

A lot of these counties are small so i found it easy enough to include them whole and break counties where I have complete data.  Kankakee is a huge problem, though, because in order to free up Joliet for a swingy suburban seat (which I would love to do), I need minorities from Kankakee and immediate environs to be fed into Jesse Jackson, Jr's district.  In the absence of data, I might just attach the areas by demographics to Jackson's 2nd, put the remaining areas of the county into the GOP central state vote sink and call it a day.

That still leaves Lasalle County.  You wouldn't happen to have that in your data set?  A county that broke 24k Kerry to 26k Bush in 2004 and broke for Obama in 2008, if it follows the pattern of Illinois as a whole, has very blue areas and very red areas.  I would almost guess that Peru and Lasalle City, possibly Ottawa too, are the Democratic islands among all the Republican rural areas.  Add those smallish cities to the 17th and you might not have to go either into Peoria or Rockford for the votes.  And that inches us closer to being able to max out at 14.  I still remain unconvinced, but I am not giving up either.  In the end I might settle for a 12-5-1, with the 1 being a swingy seat around Joliet.  It elected a Democrat once already, it might do so again.


[ Parent ]
La Salle
Here you are! And yes, La Salle is critical to my mapping of IL-17 too. And therefore, it's crucial to my mapping of IL-15 and IL-12. By not needing Peoria for IL-17 (which is anchored by Rock Island, Rockford, and La Salle - the Democratic parts) that frees up Peoria for IL-15, which in turn frees up the Democratic parts of Macoupin & Montgomery to bolster IL-12.



[ Parent ]
again thanks
If there is any 2004 or 2010 data that you need to double-confirm a district's durability, please let me know and I would be happy to provide all that I have tabulated (which is all of the Chicago area, plus whatever counties downstate a) needed to be split; and b) were publicly available.  The problem childs so to speak are the counties I have asked you about today.  

As far as Macoupin, it was a 50/50 county in 2004 and reasonably Democratic in 2008; I tend to keep it whole in my maps and either split Montgomery or keep that whole too.  Both counties are full of coal miners who are yellow dogs, Illinois-style.  Southern Illinoisans like to think they are southern, whereas when you step across the Ohio River into neighboring Kentucky or across the Mississippi into Mizzou, you realize that they aren't really.  I have lived in Carbondale, Illinois (where I teach at SIUC) for the past four years, having originally grown up in the outer suburbs of New York City in the Hudson Valley of New York State.  It has been a culture shock to say the least.  But my guess is that Costello is safe with his district as is (usually I just add Edwardsville in and call it a day), and thus that Macoupin and Montgomery (possibly also Jersey and Calhoun) are good territory to put into the 15th downstates cities seat just in case the student vote out of Urbana and Normal tank (especially when it tanks).


[ Parent ]
Macoupin
Just bear in mind that there is a distinct east/west split in Democratic performance in Macoupin. When you map it out, it's very evident. The eastern parts - and especially the southeastern corner - are notably more Democratic than the western parts.

Unless there's a strong reason to keep it whole, you'll probably be sacrificing a bit of Democratic strength in whatever district you use it for.

And I'll certainly keep your offer in mind. Thanks! I've got so many eggs in the basket right now with this Illinois project that I can't properly assess what I might want, but once I can go over everything (and I'm still consolidating my data into master lists) then I'll see what I might want.

Except of course the counties listed above. I certainly want 2008 data by precinct if anyone has it. And Kankakee is as you said the big prize right now (most of the rest will be shunted whole into the GOP sinkholes regardless).



[ Parent ]
Roguemapper and I are in basic agreement
There is no baseline that I am happy with.  Obama 2008 is problematic; Kerry 2004 is about right for the topline figures but doesn't account for demographic shift in the Chicago suburban area.  2010 congressional does account for that a little in the suburban area (meaning we didn't do any worse than Kerry did which suggests a blueing of the suburbs because in the rest of the state we did demonstrably worse).  I have been led to understand that Democratic politicians like to go by actual election data for congressional ballots versus races like Quinn-Brady or even Kirk-Alexi (although the latter is federal).  

As far as my map, I drew it according to Kerry 04 precinct data first then calculated Obama rather than the other way around.  So my map is slightly different.  Kerry did surprisingly well throughout Peoria County that year, only really losing the farm townships to the north of the city (as well as Medina, where Schock lives).  On the other hand, he got creamed in Sangamon, so my map takes in a bit more of Peoria County and a bit less of Sangamon.  Interestingly enough, and I have seen this pattern in all three election cycles, a Democratic candidate does phenomenally well in Urbana-Champaign while getting creamed everywhere else in Champaign County.  That includes places like Mahomet or Rantoul that I would have assumed on first glance would be at least somewhat favorable.  They're not.


[ Parent ]
Jeffmd reports
that the statewide average of all 2010 races comes very close to Kerry/Bush, and that it seems like a good proxy for the baseline.

[ Parent ]
yes it would...
except for one big, big problem: it doesn't give accurate turnout information.  The reason I am doing 3 elections and taking forever with it, is that a big factor in causing the swings between 2004 and 2010 (in both directions if you assume 2004 is a neutral election in the state as I generally tend to do) is widely varying turnout in our strongholds.  Republicans didn't romp so much because their voters came out in full force (whatever the Tea Partiers might think); the GOP is holding onto five extra congressional seats now because our voters stayed home.  If only Schaumburg turned out slightly more than it did, Melissa Bean would still be in Congress; if only Aurora and Elgin turned out a bit more than they did, we would be looking at Congressman Foster.  Phil Hare and Debbie Halvorson lost by wider margins so I cannot safely say the same thing about them.  It is tantalizing to think, though, that had Waukegan turned out, we might be looking at Congressman Dan Seals.  (Waukegan went from giving a Democratic plurality of +14,334DEM in 2008 to just +5963DEM in 2010.


[ Parent ]
In the future...
I'm not always certain that there's a long-term trend away from us when people say there is, but I'm fairly certain there isn't one in Illinois. That does nothing for us now, while the Republicans hold so many seats, but it does give us a good chance to flip a few of them in the future...no?

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]

Copyright 2003-2010 Swing State Project LLC

Primary Sponsor

You're not running for second place. Is your website? See why Campaign Engine is ranked #1 in software and support among Progressive-only Internet firms. http://www.mediamezcla.com/

Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


About the Site

SSP Resources

Blogroll

Powered by: SoapBlox