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SSP Daily Digest: 3/18

by: DavidNYC

Fri Mar 18, 2011 at 8:23 AM EDT


FL-Sen: Biden alert - confirmed! There was a rumor that Joey Jo-Jo Biden Shabadoo would soon be doing a fundraiser for Bill Nelson. It turns out he's doing two, on March 25th: One near Orlando and the other in Tampa.

OR-01: Not a particularly good addition to the resume for Rep. David Wu (D). As The Oregonian puts it, Wu "crashed his vehicle into a parked car in Northwest Portland last year, but passed a police field sobriety test and the incident never showed up in a police report." A police official notes that a lack of a report is not uncommon, and says that Wu didn't identify himself as a congressman.

VA-11: Republican Keith Fimian, who lost to Rep. Gerry Connolly in 2008 and 2010 (by a whisker), says he'll run again - but only if the 11th CD "redistricts well," something he doesn't expect to happen... nor should he, given the likelihood that the state lege will adopt an incumbent-protection map.

LA-Gov: He doesn't have any declared opponents for the November election, he's got an astounding $9 million in the bank, and Democrats have been getting their asses kicked in Louisiana for years, but that's not stopping Gov. Bobby Jindal from going on the air with his first television ad. The buy, according to a Jindal spokesman, is for "six figures," so I guess that means anywhere from $100,000 to $999,999.

SC-LG: Republican Lt. Gov. Ken Ard has just been charged with 92 counts of violating ethics rules, in which he's accused of putting campaign money to personal use and failing to properly disclose his spending. Among other things, Ard spent campaign funds to attend the SEC championship football game in Atlanta last year (the University of South Carolina got crushed), and he also bought his wife a gown to wear to the state's Inaugural Ball.

Wisconsin Recall: The linked article has some vague but somewhat more specific figures on the number of signatures gathered in the recall efforts. One interesting detail: If some collection efforts finish earlier than others, that means we could have staggered recall elections. I personally think we'd be better off waiting to submit all our signatures at once so that we can have a unified effort. (And also, we should keep gathering sigs until the last day, to ward off challenges.)

Greg Sargent also has a new version of an ad in support of the recall from the PCCC and DFA (NWOTSOTB). Oddly, the final title card calls out Alberta Darling, Glenn Grothman, and Mary Lazich by name - but as you'll recall, Grothman and Lazich are the two pretty much untouchable senators, thanks to their super-red districts.

On a related note, Think Progress observes that Michigan's state constitution has similar recall provisions to those in Wisconsin. Republican Gov. Rick Snyder is also pushing anti-union legislation there, and he and his allies in the legislature could be subject to a recall movement as early as July.

WI Sup. Ct.: In other Wisconsin news, Republican Supreme Court Justice David Prosser is up with an oddly narrated ad that touts some healthcare-related decision he once made. I find it pretty gross and unseemly that high court judges are elected in the first place, and to see them speaking of judicial decision-making in such nakedly political terms is disturbing. But it's the system we've got - and with any luck, Democrat JoAnne Kloppenburg will have a fighting chance against Prosser in next month's election.

Models: Harry Enten has published a model for forecasting the results of House races in presidential years. He predicts that Republicans will win 238 seats, which, assuming the GOP holds NY-26, would mean a loss of only four seats for the party in power. But the model has a margin of error of ±10 seats, so conceivably the Republicans could hold as many as 248 seats and as few as 228. Obviously, you'll have to click the link for the full details of Harry's model.

Votes: Seven House Republicans voted against banning all federal funding to NPR: Rob Woodall (GA-07), Chris Gibson (NY-20), Richard Hanna (NY-24), Pat Tiberi (OH-12), Steve LaTourette (OH-14), Dave Reichert (WA-08), and Sean Duffy (WI-03). Weirdo teabagger Justin Amash (MI-03) voted "present." And yeah, I had to look up Rob Woodall, too: He's the freshman who replaced the retired John Linder last year (Woodall was Linder's chief of staff). This vote really stands out because GA-07 is one of the reddest districts in the nation (it gave 40-point margins to Bush, though "only" 20 to McCain), and all the others on this list have quasi-semi-some-of-the-time moderate reputations.

WATN?: In case you really care about Joe Miller, I guess you can click the link....

Redistricting Roundup:

Louisiana: State Rep. Rick Gallot, who chairs the LA House's redistricting panel, released three different preliminary proposals. (Scroll down to the bottom for PDFs of the maps.) All of the plans involve pitting Republican incumbents against each other: two of the maps throw freshman Rep. Jeff Landry in with Charles Boustany; the third combines Landry with Bill Cassidy. A fourth plan (not linked in the article) by Rep. Joe Harrison (R) would combined John Fleming and Rodney Alexander. By the way, Gallot is a Democrat, yet he's apparently heading up the GOP-controlled House's redistricting efforts. Louisiana confuses me.

Mississippi: Uh, wow. Dem House Speaker Billy McCoy absolutely flipped out and seems to have turned what was a winning situation for the Dems into a disaster. For a moment there, it looked as though Republicans (who control the Senate) were ready to agree to incumbent protection plans for each chamber - and give the kiss-off to Lt. Gov. Phil Bryant, who wanted to take a more aggressive approach. But McCoy crumbed the play, releasing a statement saying... well, click the link for the whole thing - it's really berserk. He says he won't recognize any further maps from the Senate, he considers the whole thing a done deal, and he's sending the maps to the Department of Justice for preclearance - even though they haven't been passed into law! I have a strong feeling that he'll get an envelope back marked "Return to Sender," but the more important fact is that this now strengthened Bryant's hand and probably makes Senate Republicans much more likely to jettison a bipartisan gerrymander and take Bryant's approach. Ah, well, it's just delaying the inevitable - even with the most favorable of maps, I can't imagine Dems in MS holding the House for very long.

New Jersey: It's a classic problem, and one that puts Republicans in the rare position of siding with minority communities, while the Democrats are on the outs. Hispanic and Asian political leaders in New Jersey are unhappy with their communities' under-representation in the legislature, and they want to see more majority-minority districts drawn. Republicans are all too eager to help - and Democrats are, of course, unhappy, because that means packing Dem voters into darker-blue districts, rather than spreading them around to make more seats competitive. This is a miniature, state-level version of what happened in the early 90s on the federal level and reflects an ongoing, hard-to-resolve tension.

DavidNYC :: SSP Daily Digest: 3/18
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Minorities
Do they want token representation or elected officials who can actually do something about their issues? It shouldn't be a difficult question to resolve.

David Lublin wrote a great book on this
The Paradox of Representation. It's a little out of date but well worth reading.

[ Parent ]
$100M question
Why do Democrat minority voters not feel they are being properly represented by white democrats?

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
The issue
It's been a while since I looked at the state of poli sci literature on this, but as of the mid-'00s the idea was that on "big ticket items" you get similar representation from white and AA Dems.  The difference is on more subtle things, like sickle cell anemia research and such, where whites might not be as tuned-in.

[ Parent ]
Are you just being factitious?
Why do people from Staten Island prefer to vote for representatives from the island? What about the eastern shore of Maryland?

If descriptive representation doesn't matter at all, we would all be better served by moving to a party list system.  


[ Parent ]
As David said
Republicans are all too eager to help.

[ Parent ]
Ask Nikki Tinker
She represented all that is wrong with this line of thinking.  

[ Parent ]
Exactly the example I was thinking of
Seems to me most voters don't care. This is more about politicians wanting safe seats.

[ Parent ]
Nothing complicated
For the same reasons as

rural Ds don't trust politicians from urban areas
NYC Ds don't trust politicians from upstate (e.g. Gillibrand)
coastal Ds don't trust politicians from interior areas

etc.

It's all a matter of identifying the candidate who "understands my problems better".


[ Parent ]
Take it one step further
It's all a matter of identifying the candidate who "understands my problems better".   This is only the beginning.

To go a step further, I'd say its more a matter of "identifying the candidate who best understands me in the way that I define how someone would understand me".  

Some times its race, sometimes its geography, sometimes religion, sometimes its income bracket, etc.

That's what makes it complicated.  And that's what makes rep. Cohen in TN such a great example for everyone involved.  His majority AA constituency could have voted him out and picked Tinker, but they voted for the best candidate in their minds, not the one who they shared a common race/religion with.


[ Parent ]
And Hispanics for Rory Reid over Sandoval
Most people vote on issues. Having one of your own may boost turnout but it isn't the whole enchilada.

[ Parent ]
Mostly agree
I'd say "the best candidate for them in their minds"

For lower info voters, the basic data (race, locality, profession) has more of an impact. They see and hear an ad about the candidate's background, they see and hear an ad about "the other guy," and then they make a snap decision.

OTOH, overcoming lower info is a power of incumbency -- that incumbent has more time to solidify that identity, that sense of commonality and understanding of the problems of local voters.

The better candidate is able to accelerate that sense of understanding, and is able to make more of an impact on lower info voters. If I understand correctly, Cohen is an example of that.


[ Parent ]
Incumbency
Ah yes, incumbency.  But does incumbency matter due to the reasons you list or is it again more vanity in the voters mind.  

The person could seem like they are more into with constituents because they both worked for so long in the "same area".  I always use the same example, my home town mayr was re-elected last week (for like the 8 billionth term) in a high GOP area but he's a Dem.  He does well with people who have lived there a while, but probably doesn't share their views on most things.  however, as new people come into the town, they rage against him.

I guess I've always wondered, if incumbency mattered, would we then see no difference between voting patterns of "long time district" voters versus "new-to-the-district" voters.  (I mean that in terms of population changes not so much re-dsitricting)


[ Parent ]
I'd say you all are over-thinking it a bit, but correct
As a gay guy, I will almost always support the non-white straight male when I can.  Fucking a, they have been in power long enough.  

And I personally believe any policy-oriented consequence of this starts first with this being an identity politics issue.  Black people don't vote for black people because they support black issues, it's because they're black and that trickles down to black issues.


[ Parent ]
Why can't Arizona and Nevada voters be happy...
With US Senators from California?

Why can't folks in Oklahoma accept Senators from Texas?

Why can't Connecticut's Governor be a New Yorker?

And why can't Congress just be a lovely sea of lily white?

{/snark}

(Sorry, but this "discussion" is just ridiculous. Why is there so much hostility to the Voting Rights Act here?)

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Voting RIghts
You need to analyze the effect of VRA districts on the overall political picture.  When a VRA seat is created, the adjoining seats usually end up being very Republican.  (Obviously, in a large city like Los Angeles, that is not the case, where there are so many Dems anyway.)  But, overall, this is a problem because the Dem in the VRA seat is so safe, they usually end up being extremely liberal, and the GOP members in the nearby districts have very conservative constituents and thus their seats are also safe and they seem to be very conservative as members of Congress.  If you look at why our government is so disfunctional, you can't help but notice that in the US Senate, they compromise and cut deals that most senators can live with.  In the House, because it it controlled by the senior members of the party in control, these senior member come from the hard core liberal or hard core conservative districts, depending on which party controls the House.  Because they are so many hard core conservative seats, for example, they have an undue influence over the House and thus over the government because they are in leadership and committee leadership positions.   The same applies when the Dems are in charge.  Before we had VRA seats, there weren't these two extremes in the House.  These racial gerrymanders got really bad through the 1980s and 19902,  and the bipartisanship went down at the same time.  Our government wasn't always dominated by extremists, they mostly went to work and got the job done.  The rise of the GOP in the US House delegations from the South is due in part to the racial gerrymandering down there.  There will always be some extremists in either party, but their numbers are way out of line, given the more moderate nature of our country.  Even if you think we are a center-right nation, that is still not the same as a far-right wing nation.  

In California, we recently adopted a run-off system, whereby if no one candidate receives over 50% of the vote, the top 2 candidates have a run off, even if they are from the same party, and even if I am not a member of the party that had the 2 highest vote earners, I can still vote in the contest.  It is supposed to yield more moderate office holders.  I felt that if someone doesn't want to be a member of a political party, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote in primary.  But, at the end of the day, we really do need office holders that are more mainstream, and not from the extremes of each party, so there is the theory and there is the reality.  

We need to stop thinking along racial lines and start acting as though we are all part of the same culture and country.  You can't legislate people into accepting one another, but hard work always seems to get the respect of others, not catching a free ride.  


[ Parent ]
Maybe the Senate is more moderate than the House.
But there are 83 minority members in the House of Representatives (19.1%), and 3 minority members in the Senate (6%)

That counts for something.

http://mypolitikal.com/


[ Parent ]
I think you're a little bit off track
blaming the VRA for a rise in partisanship.  Even states without significant minority populations (such as those in New England) saw the elimination of liberal Republicans, in favor of liberal Democrats.  And in the South, the decline of our ranks of conservative Democrats cannot be blamed solely on the VRA as the voting trends of Southern whites were already changing.  Truthfully if it weren't for the VRA the entire deep South could be sending unified conservative Republican delegations to Congress, the VRA actually balances that ideological extremism somewhat by ensuring the election of Democrats in these areas.

The reason the Senate is more deliberative is because of the rules of that chamber allowing more power to individuals and to the minority party.  They HAVE to compromise more, otherwise everything starts failing cloture votes and nothing passes.

You're also ignoring history if you claim that partisanship only got bad in the 1980s and 1990s.  Go back to the late 1800s, early 1900s...they knew partisanship.  There might have been this weird period of transition in the 1950s where both parties were shifting political bases and social ideologies, which produced less partisanship, but I'd see that as the exception to the rule.


[ Parent ]
Not could be sending a unified conservative Republican delegation
They would be.

And agree on overall point.  The Senate cuts deals and is more moderate for a multitude of reasons.  One, because it is extremely unrepresentative of the country at large and is naturally more conservative.  Two, one Senator can derail a bill.  Three, always had a more collegial atmosphere.  Four, less in number, easier to know everyone, easier to get into positions of cutting deals.  Five, tradition plus a lack of understanding of it by Franken.  My paper had a front pager on Al and Rand Paul being friends because Franken thought you were supposed to call everyone who won and congratulate them.  The article also said that the Senate has all new members choose a mentor of their own party and the opposing party, and Paul chose Franken.


[ Parent ]
Wellstone would be proud of Franken
My paper had a front pager on Al and Rand Paul being friends because Franken thought you were supposed to call everyone who won and congratulate them. The article also said that the Senate has all new members choose a mentor of their own party and the opposing party, and Paul chose Franken.


[ Parent ]
And before the VRA...
We had a nearly all white Congress, and both rural Southern and urban Northern minorities totally disenfranchised and unrepresented. How on earth is that fair?!

And how on earth can the VRA be blamed for political polarization? White "Dixiecrats" were far-right long before the VRA was passed. The only difference since then is that they finally gave up the charade of pretending to get along with the rest of the Democratic Party.

And since you brought up California, take a closer look at what's actually been happening there. No matter if a Republican's district PVI is R+2 or R+22, he's been pushing further and further and further to the right. The VRA has absolutely no control over the teabaggers demanding more and more ideological "purity" out of their rep's. And often, it's been local progressives complaining the most about certain Dems in VRA seats (like Loretta Sanchez in CA-47, or Joe Baca in CA-43) being "too conservative".


Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
People don't seem to realize
that if it weren't for the VRA, there would be hardly any African-American representatives from the South (the part of the country with the highest percentage of African-Americans!)

It is very understandable why communities might be upset with the fact that despite being a third of the population they can't elect as many members as they should be able to.  It seems a little offputting to be telling them they should be happy being represented by conservative, corporate-friendly white Democrats instead (which often happens in districts where the minority vote is diluted but just large enough to enable such a Democrat to win it).


[ Parent ]
I don't know about that
Republicans like the VRA because they can pack as many Democrats into as few districts as possible. I doubt they'd try to dilute, say, the metro Atlanta districts, MS-02, or TN-09.

[ Parent ]
Because they can't.
Simple as that. Especially Metro Atlanta has far too many African-Americans for The Georgia Legislature to dilute. However in other suburban and rural parts of The South, it's easier for southern legislatures to dilute the black vote by way of redistricting.

And to be fair, the GOP isn't the only guilty party here. As we saw with the story in New Jersey, some Democrats want to continue diluting minority communities simply for political gain.

Minority communities shouldn't be looked at as just "easy Dem votes". They're people, too, and they deserve representation just as much as the white folk in this country.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Atlanta would be impossible to dilute
but it's not hard to make a map of Mississippi that ensures a 4-0 Republican delegation.  They could do the same thing to Louisiana and break up the New Orleans district, or carve up Clyburn's in South Carolina.  The VRA is the only thing keeping us at the table in the deep South.

[ Parent ]
Atlanta and Memphis are probably all that would be left
Although, it could be a serious dummymander.  In Mississippi, up until 2010 we had a 3-1 Dem delegation.  Alabama 3-4 with one GOP seat not being totally safe.  And in SC, if they got rid of Clyburn, they'd all but guarantee losing the two coastal seats.

[ Parent ]
it would definitely require
some very creative map-drawing in South Carolina to get a pure GOP delegation.  I'm thinking they would run strips from the ultra-conservative northwest corner of the state down to central SC to soak up African-American areas, thereby not weakening their coastal seats.  But I'm pretty sure it is possible, were it not for the VRA.

Still, you have a point when it comes to dummymandering.  The next good year for Democrats, we could be winning 30% AA seats left and right in the South.  As it is already, I am wondering how they intend to make a safe 6-1 map when South Carolina gains a seat, given how their grip on the coastal districts are slipping, and Columbia and Charleston are becoming Democratic powerhouses.


[ Parent ]
Seems like a pretty good reason
to have some form of mixed-member proportional representation so that control of congress doesn't depend on how packed or not urban Democrats are and minorities can still have an appropriate level of access to representation per the VRA.

NC-06/NC-04

[ Parent ]
Really, the only other solution...
To this problem is for Congress to switch from a single-member district based legislative body to a more European style parliamentary system with proportional representation. But under that system, parties get voted in and out by slate and we'd run the risk of having a constantly fractured government a la Israel or Italy.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Not really
Electoral designs make proportional representation work pretty well for countries like Germany or in Scandinavia.  It depends a lot on the underlying political or economic coalitions in the country and how policy preferences are distributed across those coalitions.  Israel also has a very low threshold for representation (I think it's 2%).

Besides, having a unicameral parliament with PR is less fractured than having one party control the presidency and senate and the other controlling the house and supreme court.

NC-06/NC-04


[ Parent ]
GA-07: Woodall against defunding NPR
consistent with Saxby Chambliss, ref http://www.redstate.com/erick/...

though it's just as likely to get him primaried....

He's opposed to defunding NPR. Is he becoming a Democrat?


Damn
we should be proud of Speaker Boehner and the house GOP for working day in and day out to create jobs unlike that lazy ass president we have in the White House.....oh who am I kidding! Where are the jobs Boehner!?

Though I'm glad Anthony Weiner is here to explain why we needed to defund NPR. Stupid Click & Clack....



19, Male, Independent, CA-12


[ Parent ]
Funny
I do love my short, snarky floor speeches.

[ Parent ]
And Anthony Weiner is a master of them.
I almost don't want him to be mayor of NYC for that reason.

23, liberal democrat, SSP Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college);   DKos: HoosierD42

[ Parent ]
Attack NPR, It Only Gets Stronger
Sooo....my local NPR station, SoCal's 89.3 KPCC, just completed its annual week-long spring fundraising drive and it essentially coincided exactly with all of the hullaballoo surrounding the release of O'Keefe's tape and Republican efforts to de-fund NPR. But then something magical happened. In the words of Southern California Public Radio President Bill Davis:

Our apparently ill-timed fundraiser was the most successful in our history. 14,000 KPCC listeners--more than half of them first-time contributors--helped us surpass our original goal by nearly 40%. It's hard to adequately express our gratitude for this kind of support, but we'll keep trying.

So apparently, there were a lot of people like me who were so ticked off by O'Keefe's out-of-context extravaganza that we got off our keisters and became contributors. Of course, big-market stations like this probably can survive on their own. It's just the rural stations in small, poor (and often heavily-Republican) areas that are likely to be shuttered if the Senate doesn't restore funding.  

In conclusion, Sylvia Poggioli will continue to purr her well-researched, non-partisan and thoroughly charming, yet somehow fiery and passionate, news reports in my ear. And James O'Keefe can eat a bag of dildos on a boat.

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.


[ Parent ]
My roommate has always wanted to become a contributor
I should tell him that this really is the perfect time to sign-up.  Show them some love.

[ Parent ]
I agree with the WI recall sentiment...
...to a certain degree, but we need these elections to start rolling as fast as possible before any more damage can be done.  I'd hold out for a few more weeks to get the four or five most vulnerable on the ballot at once, but if we can get it in before the end of june, then the budget will not pass without a potentially flipped senate voting on it.  That's a BIG deal!

and the Dems absolutely cannot block the budget and shutdown the government
That will kill everything.  Sit in your seats, watch it pass, rally against it.

[ Parent ]
Iowa redistricting
Guest poster at Bleeding Heartland discusses the process and why Tom Latham (R, IA-04) may end up running against Bruce Braley in the new IA-01 rather than against Leonard Boswell in the new IA-03.  

If that's the case, I see good news and bad news
The bad news is it means Braley will probably have a more conservative district, and he barely won in 2010. The good news is that it's not 2010, and Braley's a much better campaigner than Boswell. I have a tough time seeing Latham winning.  

[ Parent ]
I like Braley's chances
if Obama is winning the new district by 15 points, which may very well end up happening.

Would certainly feel better about Braley than Boswell challenging Latham.


[ Parent ]
I hope Mr. Enten's model is wrong... way wrong...
Gaining only 4 seats would really, really suck.  Somehow that seems very off.

Looking at the historical examples cited
I'd say the model overstates Republican seats by about 5. I'm of the opinion the House should take on secondary importance to holding what Democrats already have. If that happens Republicans will comfortably hold the House because people are happy with split government. 10 seats looks about right to me. But there is a long way to go and far too many variables for any level of certainty.

[ Parent ]
Will President Obama's share of the vote have 0 effect
on the # of house seats?

Past data suggests so, thus the results of the model.

But that works when people are still willing to split their tickets.

If this is a new era of partisanship, then I suggest that variable will be wrong for the first time in '12.  


[ Parent ]
Very possible
Certainly in districts where he brings out people who wouldn't otherwise vote. But I do think there is something to the idea that swing voters will vote Democratic for POTUS and Republican for the House if they see an improving economy.

[ Parent ]
"Improving Economy"
The morwe I think about this phrase, the more I wodner of its relevance in 2012.  I'm think there will be just as much "improving economy" voting as there will be "coming to terms with new economi realities".

I just think back to when i got my licenses in the early/mid 90's and gas was elss than a $1.  nowadays anything under $4 is tolerable and when its below $3.50 its great.  Things have gotten worse, permanently, and yet my mindset has changed.

So heading into 2012, what if gas is still high, unemployment is still high, real estate in many markets is stagnant, etc.?  Personally I think signs of an improving economy won't motivate as many voters, but people might come to terms with what we have and vote based on other reasons.  And i do honestly thinkt hat favors Dems especially with Obama at the top of the ticket.

off topic i suppose, just my thoughts....


[ Parent ]
I guess "improving economy" is in the
eye of the beholder.  If you are a homeowner your home has not increased in value and yes more homes are underwater on a daily basis. We have four empty homes in our very middle class white collar neighborhood.  One apparently is rented, one has been foreclosed and empty for a year, another has been for sale for a year and I think the little old lady in the other has just moved out.  Its a great time to buy but if you are selling or holding on improving is not the word I would use.  

Most new jobs for the last year have been low paying jobs that  pay less then the old ones.  Income is flat.  Gas is now $3.5 per gallon as opposed to $2.00 per gallon 18 months ago.  

The economy is not in freefall but the number of people that I know who are unemployed or underemployed tells me that being stable is not the same as improving.  

Saying all that the President has the bully pulpit to describe the situation is terms that are favorable to him.  He certainly will use as his slogan "things are bad-re elect me".  No it will be "things are getting better-lets stay the course".  I might wait just a bit before I use "improving".


[ Parent ]
I understand what you are saying, I think.
The problem is, none of these things are judged in a vacuum. We've heard many times that no president has ever been reelected in the last five decades or whatever it is if unemployment is over a certain amount. Well, okay, that might be true, but imagine of unemployment had reached 19 percent as we were heading into the month right before and after Obama was elected and that he managed to get it down to 9.5 percent. He'd probably be the beneficiary, despite it being extremely high by historical standards. Thus, I think the trend does matter greatly.

Now, we more or less have three options: things get worse (and not just a little), they get better, or they basically stay the same. If it's the former, he'd face a huge struggle to get reelected. If things get better, either by a little but especially by a lot, it's hard to see how he's not reelected. If it's the latter, I think he's favored--whether it's because the troubles have adjusted us to a new baseline, because the candidates on the other side are so awful, because of something else, or some combination.

That might sound simple, but it's of course complicated by many factors. Job growth of 250,000 per month isn't enough to make a quick dent in the awful unemployment figures, but it's probably enough to help us psychologically recover and to bring about steady if underwhelming improvement in the economy.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
The economy added 1 million jobs in July, August and Sept 1982
and that was enough to reduce unemployment from 10.8% to 9.8%--If I recall correctly.  That greatly eased the GOP pain that year.

I think 250K new jobs per month for  several months would certainly be a sign of improving economy.

Right now I just don't see any "improvement".  We are not in free fall and have stablized.  We have about  100K net  in new jobs per month since Nov. The new jobs have been paying less then the jobs lost in 2009 & 2010 so real wages are flat. Consumer spending and industrial production have been flat-housing prices are anything lower then 6 months ago.  

So if flat lining is improving we are there. Flat lining might not be the best word but not enough job growth to reduce unemployment, flat wages, flat industrial, flat housing prices and so forth.

If we get to 250K in new jobs over a prolonged period of time plus increasing income and wages then I would say improving economy will help Obama.  


[ Parent ]
Adding
250,000 jobs a month would certainly be a good sign, but while I don't have exact models or figures, everything I've read that says that in order to get down to a more historically normal unemployment rate of five percent quickly, we'd need somewhere around 500,000 jobs, or maybe even 600,000 jobs, created per month for several months on end. I don't think anyone is predicting that.

Last month, about 200,000 jobs were created. Perhaps it will be revised upward (how nice would that be?) or downward slightly, but if we see similar job growth for months on end, I'd say it's impossible for a Republican to win the presidency. And if I remember correctly, that appears to be the new estimation for a lot of people.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
Here's some numbers on a napkin for you
and these are are just estimates

125k per month in new jobs are needed to handle new entries

150K for  20 months new J's to handle 3 million discouraged

125K for 20 months to reduce unemplyment form 8.9% to 7.5%

There are like 19 or 20 monthly unemployment reports before Nov 2012. To see the unemployment rate dip to 7.5%, assuming 3 million discouraged workers return to workforce, you need 400K per new jobs per month.  If this decline is down in a year yes you might need 500K monthly rate.  

I don't see that strong of a econ surge-not yet at least.  I am still gettin email resumes from people out of work.  

Frankly the biggest drag on the economy right now is the shrinking local and state public sector.  The layoff of local teachers, city/county and state workers plus cuts in state services are hurting the recovery.  For instance if CA cuts 2 billion in child care services.  That's 100,000  in employees involved in child  care work that will have funds cut or eliminated.    


[ Parent ]
Have you
seen any firm evidence of the number of jobs needed just to keep up with population growth? I've seen differences of tens of thousands for each estimate. If it's as low as 100,000, it makes it easier to deal with the unemployed. If it's around 150,000 or higher, it makes harder. 125,000 seems like a reasonable guess, and I've seen that number used more than once, but I've seen other numbers used, too.

Anyway, I have to wonder whether there's more pent up demand than we might guess from official estimates and how much that might effect employment. In other words, what if, after a solid six months where more than a million jobs are created, people feel more confident and start to spend more.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
That's a great question and I have come to
realize that being an econmist requires some guessing.  I have seen the 150K, 125K and 100K guesses on number of new jobs needed to be added  to match population growth.  I think frankly it varies.

In 1998, when I interviewing college grads for jobs, people were blase about going to work.  One person told me that she was turning the job down because she wanted to have fun for a few months before she went to work. So how do you account for people doing that? Now nearly every 2010 college graduate I know was going on to grad school in some form or another.  I do note that grad schools are bulging right now and that probably deflated numbers in May 2009/2010 but come 2012 or 2013 there will be a huge flood of graduates and undergraduates looking for jobs.  So these are imprecise numbers.

I might add when the economy grows faster more fulltime jobs are created.  One person can find a fulltime job and that creates two openings as he leaves his two part time jobs.  Some of these econ numbers are just hard to put a handle on at times.  


[ Parent ]
Also, the baby boomers
will start to retire in heavier numbers, which throws an even bigger wrench into the number crunching process.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
BJ if I had about 20,000 words
I would go on about the boomers.  When I was in college in the 70's over 50% of the workers had a defined pension plan.  You worked a number of years and got a pension check every month plus your Social security when you retired.  Now that number of "defined"penion plan employees are below 30%.  The 1st wave of boomers now retiring are probably in the 40% range as having a defined pension.  I am 53 and my defined pension is at PGB as my company , where I worked for 23 years, filed Chapter 11. So for me its what I save and SS.

My best guess is that today the boomers retiring will work after age 65 is a similar fashion to previous generations.  I think, however, that after time that number will increase.  Seniors will stay in the workforce longer, on average, but will also likely do service jobs.  That's my best guess.  Thinking demographically  is cool.


[ Parent ]
Well...
Roosevelt did get re-elected twice when unemployment was 16.9%, and 14.6%, respectively.

I jest, but you get the point.

http://mypolitikal.com/


[ Parent ]
aka, those of us who are too close to politics
don't see the bipartisan nature of -- call it a "working plurality" -- of the American electorate.

[ Parent ]
In fact, you can see this in action in both 2010 and the Wisconsin recall
In both cases, there is a perception that the governing party overreached. In 2010, it was the Dems on health care and now its the Repubs on unions. Partisans hate so-called bipartisanship and compromise, but the American people seem (in general) to like it.  

[ Parent ]
These models are just that: models.
It's not a crystal ball that sees into the future. To take two of the better known models as examples, those by Gibbs and Ray Fair, they were both off in 2010 and 2008. The former predicted, based on economic factors, a loss of 45 seats, but there were clearly more. Likewise, the latter predicted both a higher share of the vote for Obama and a larger share of the congressional vote for the Democrats, but despite doing well, it was off (at least as far as Obama's share of the vote; it's possible that percentage of the vote happened but didn't translate into exact seat gains). Factors such as the quality of the candidates and congressional lines aren't take into consideration (and, to be fair, how could they be?).

If someone like Michelle Bachmann ends up as the nominee, it's entirely possible, if not likely, there will be huge problems for Republicans all over the country, especially in the Midwest. I wouldn't be surprised if that throws this model in question off by a lot.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
That JSonline article...
Seems to be very bullish on the Hansen recall efforts.  I went to the web site, they do seem to be more organized than most.  I hope the Dems don't get too complacent on the defensive end.  Hansen is in a Bush district, so he could be in danger.

It's good to see that the Holperin side is lagging considerably, though.  Everyone else on our side is pretty safe.  We can't afford to lose any of these.


Green Bay Dems
I do not think we are getting too complacent. Dems in the Northeast and Kenosha are cognizant of potential of recalls and are getting organized.  I know the Green Bay Democrats have been working hard to collect signatures to recall Cowles.  So that is where their energy has been focused instead of focusing on Hansen.  However, there has also been several rallies in support of Hansen and if he is put up to a recall election, there will be plenty of energy and organization behind him and any of the incumbent Democrats.  

[ Parent ]
Does having recalls in summer hurt Dems
Just curious if the numerous college towns actually have WI registered voters who would be out-of-state (internships, etc.) during the recall election.  

Do many students register to vote in the college towns (as opposed to their home elsewhere in WI)?  If so, how likely will they be to vote in a recall via absentee?


[ Parent ]
Off the top of my head..
I don't think that any of the big college towns have R senators, but they certainly could hurt Dems vulnerable for recall.

[ Parent ]
Sort of good news
I tend to always worry about the 20% in the 80%/20% rule, so I'm wondering if cluster of small colleges in various districts could pose a similar issue.

Growing up in NY you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a college campus (SUNY or otherwise) so I never know if other states have these clusters of 10,000 college students all over the state or not.

Even Bill Owens district in the nowhere of NY has quite a few college campuses (Oswego, Plattsburgh, Canton, Potsdam in the SUNY system and the likes of Clarkson, St. Lawrence, etc.).

Off topic, I really think the ever-expanding public universities in some states could really be a target point for house races in the future.  Obviously the given state might need to have lax residency laws to vote in the college students' district as opposed to their home district, but its a thought I've had.


[ Parent ]
Could they place limits
on how these students in question could vote without running into problems with state or federal law? Or would they simply have to move polling places off campus to toss a wrench into Democratic efforts?

I've thought alone the same lines, but I've worried about votes being stolen from one state in order to support another. It's probably less of an issue for a statewide election, but for a congressional race or something even smaller in scale, students voting in one race means they can't vote in another. It's entirely possible we could be screwing ourselves by trying something like that, although I guess anyone that is motivated enough to follow this stuff so intensely has already considered it. Plus, if there's no Electoral College at some point in the future, it's hardly an issue for national races.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
I have no idea
I'm no lawyer.

But with the GOP trying to make voting require more and more identification, and with students not always being the most organized sort, i think there could be sisues.  

If a student goes to college and registers to vote using his campus address where he lives 9 months a year, I have no idea if that's legal.  If he maintains his parent's residence for financial aid, I don't know if he's broken a law.  But if he kept his drivers license from his parents address, his ID wouldn't match his voter reghistration, which I'm sure would be an issue if Scott Walker gets his changes to require more ID for voting.

Again, there's a lot of if's and but's and I'm way too far down the road, but its just what runs through my mind.


[ Parent ]
College Towns
There's a few: UW LaCrosse is in Kapanke's district, UW River Falls is in Harsdorf's, and UW Oshkosh is in Hopper's.

[ Parent ]
UW-Stout is also in Harsdorf's,
But both River falls and Menomonie( where stout is] probably only have about 35k people between them, and are very much overshadowed by the twin cities exburbs in the the area.

20, male, independent, WI-07.

[ Parent ]
A Few Colleges
There is UW-LaCrosse in Kapanke's district, UW-River Falls and UW-Stout in Harsdorf's, UW-Green Bay in Hansen's, Lawrence University which is in Appleton (but it probably is not in Cowles', UW-Parkside in Wirch's, and Cardinal Stritch and Concordia in Darling's (perhaps some students from UW-Milwaukee reside in her district but it would be small).  
In terms of the impact of the student vote, I would have no idea as to their residency status.  However, I would assume the Wisconsin College Democrats and the local College Democrats are working on this.  

[ Parent ]
Good to hear!
Thanks for the info on the ground... I know that Green Bay proper is a republican town, but it is also a labor town.

I did some research on Hansen, and he did very well in the horrible WI Dem year of 2004, winning 54% of the vote.  He was also majority leader for awhile in the Senate (I think), so he has some good positive incumbent visibility. He barely won his first election in 2000, which was an open seat.  I don't know if his district was redrawn later to make it more friendly to him.

I can see where they could get enough signatures to put him on the ballot.  From what I've seen in his last 3 elections, there have been a about 35,000 GOP votes in his district.  That number has not gone up or down regardless of the years. 2008 turnout on our side should make him safe, but even 2004 turnout should be enough, unless indies have really soured.  We'll have to see the polling.  Almost all the places PPP polled showed disapproval of the Dem Senators fleeing, even in districts where we were winning, so that is the wildcard in all of this.  Are they madder at FitzWalker or their Senator leaving?

Thanks for the info from the ground.  It is greatly appreaciated and comforting.


[ Parent ]
MS
What in the world is McCoy doing?  Why would he mess this up?

29/D/Male/NY-01

Palin in India
http://andrewsullivan.theatlan...

It appears that our coverage from yesterday has been a source of great consternation in the Palin camp - which was not the intended result of our reportage. Since last evening there has been a virtual blackout of all information about her movements.

From the video, you'd think it were a foregone conclusion that Palin will win the '12 R nomination, with a substantial majority of the female vote.


People everywhere are ignorant of other countries' politics......
Indians, even the politically plugged-in journalists there, follow American politics like I follow the NHL.  A few big stars and the few best teams have some name recognition, you check in to the newspaper sometimes for a superficial update on the state of things, and that's it.

Of course Americans follow Indian politics like I follow the Olympic sport of curling (which I learned existed only in the last winter Olympics, when I paused while channel surfing and muttered to myself, "what in the world is this, what are they doing???").

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
dunno about that
I'm used to reading excellent analyses on US politics from Canada and the UK. When I was better at French, Le Monde seemed fine too.

While I understand ignorance exists elsewhere, I was always surprised at the depth of knowledge shown by those outside the US in my personal travels as well.

aka, "they" (as in everyone else) know a lot more about US politics than we do about anyone else -- at least from the worldwide distribution of options like the International Herald Tribune, CNN, and Time.

So what I linked is shocking given the analyses I've seen from the UK.


[ Parent ]
Fair enough, but Canada and UK are outliers......
India is the norm.

Yes I agree that people in other countries know a lot more about American politics than we know about theirs.  That's what it is to be a dominant superpower, we simply get more attention from others.

But what they "know" with a few exceptions like those you cited is largely limited, and that India Today Conclave video about Palin and the 2012 Presidential election is typical.

I spent a summer in London during my college years, I worked (unpaid) as a clerk in a solicitor's (lawyer's) office, and my talks on politics with people revealed that yes people know a lot, but there's plenty they don't know or misunderstand.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I once read a great thing on CNN/MSNBC
It was from a traveler who had his 20 things he's learned about the world.  One is that the world knows about the US, and it's only because we are a super power because it's not like any of these people follow Chinese politics or Russian politics.

[ Parent ]
There's not much to follow in the way of Chinese politics anyway
the only elected office in China is a low-level local office. Everything else is just the smoke-and-mirrors inner workings of the Communist Party.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
I did not find the "misunderstandings" any different
As is the case here, there are some who are "informed," others who are not. But such "comprehension" is a difficult thing to measure anecdotally, especially when colored by perspective -- and personal samples.

In the comment section of many US articles about Palin, it's far too easy to find (apparent) US voters who believe that she's a shoo-in for '12, with the same rationale used in the Indian TV report.

In my dealings with people from India, I've found them to be every bit as well educated as those from Canada and the UK. But then again, that's my personal sample.


[ Parent ]
The tie vote in NJ 2001 was for the democrat plan to
draw numerous minority seats at 40%.  That was great for the D's but as it happens AA & hispanics are underpresented by a fair % in the house and senate in NJ.

I might add that the Bush DOJ was consistent in 2001-2002.  Sorta of consistent.  They did not press for minority majority seats in NJ and nor did they complain when minority majority seats was drawn in other states.

If the plans were passed they got approved as long as no dilution took place


WI Judge Issues Temporary Restraining Order Against Walker Bill
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c...

Based on sunshine law provision.  Could make things very interesting soon enough... They'd have to pass it again.


Excellent news
Just as I hoped.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
NV-02: Uh oh, Sharrrrrrrrrrrron...
Looks to be getting a competing suitor for teabagger love after all.

On a possible run against Angle, [Kirk] Lippold told me: "There's a lot of talent out there...but I don't consider Sharron Angle to be anointed in any way."

When asked how he may differ with Angle politically, he said: "I am as conservative as she is [but] you have to be electable in a General Election, as well."

Lippold also told me the attack on the Cole "focused" him and made him appreciate that he is willing to do whatever it takes to defend America.

He really seems to be their dream come true: a "Mr. HE MAN!" figure who spouts off all the same teabaggy nuttiness as Angle without sporting the baggage of a high-profile losing campaign to Harry Reid last year. However with both of them running, they risk splitting the teabagger vote and letting Brian Krolicki slip through the GOP primary.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


DCCC vs NRCC Fundraising
Funny to see the DCCC giving themselves a pat on the back for outraising the NRCC by $300k in February. Taking into account the CoH minus Debt of each party committee (Ds 5.9M CoH & 17.3M in debt equals "net" worth of $-11.4M and the Rs 4.3M CoH & 9.5M debt equals $-4.2M).

If the DCCC can  continue to outraise the NRCC by $300k a month they'll pass the GOP in March of 2013!

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


It's not so much
about the position as it is about the trend: one Democratic committee is out raising one Republican committee. It's not by a lot, but it's something, and if it persists, it'll become easier to erase the debt and take advantage of enthusiasm.

Besides, all of what you describe makes for a less pithy headline.

Off the top of your head, do you recall if the money being sent to Wisconsin is included in these figures? I would think not, and that it's going to the DNC or the Wisconsin state party, but perhaps it's enhanced because they are piggybacking off of what's happening there.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
Well...
You predicted that the NRCC would outraise the DCCC early this year.  So far, that hasn't happened.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
And the NRCC should outraise the DCCC this year...
Given they control the House by a substantial margin. I think the fact the DCCC outraised them one month is intersting, if not definitive of anything.  

[ Parent ]
The DCCC outraised the NRCC
significantly in January.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I don't think that reflects very well on the NRCC.
If this trend keeps up, it could be a big deal at some point, and perhaps an indication the NRCC is not that well organized.  

[ Parent ]
When do we get numbers
for the other committees?

Also, what about outside groups, like Crossroads GPS?

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
The NRCC
Was getting clobbered in the fundraising battle for most of 2009, and the early part of 2010 as well.  Once the 2010 election neared the gap went away, but everybody seemed to dismiss their early fundraising issues on them being in the deep minority.  That theory goes out the window if the DCCC continues to lead in fundraising in 2011.

23, Male, Democrat, OH-13

[ Parent ]
Yeah, LOL! Count on pj to find a unique spin on this!......
Everyone in the political media is talking up the DCCC advantage for last month, and 2nd month in a row, as newsworthy.

Political reporters actually very smartly downplay debt because party committees exist in perpetuity and don't really have to worry about debt.  They're always able to pay it off eventually, the money is always there to be had.  What matters is being able to raise in a tough environment, and that's what Dems are doing.  And by "environment" I don't mean the election environment, I mean the fundraising environment, which normally should be terrible for the party committee whose client just got destroyed and lost all power in the last election.

How well did the NRCC fundraise the first couple months of 2007?  I vaguely recall the DCCC was dominating that period, as expected.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
They were...
In fact, you probably have to go back to 2006 for the last time the RNCC beat the DCCC.  

[ Parent ]
Haley Barbour's son doesn't want him to run
How is this not a calculated move?
The son of a possible presidential contender sends an e-mail to one of the most, if not the most, influential political observers in this country, especially on the right that is picked up by the Associated Press?  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Darling, Grothman, and Lazich
That would make sense if the ad was mainly being run in the Milwaukee media market, as those are the only 3 recallable Republican senators in the Milwaukee area.  It would be really easy to do a separate ad naming Kapanke in La Crosse, Cowles and Olsen in Green Bay, and Harsdorf in the Twin Cities, if they are even bothering to advertise in the more expensive Twin Cities market.  

Well this is no good
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_...

19, gay male, IL-7, MN 4 (college), Dem

IOKIAR
The GOP has been messing with phony green party candidates for over a decade, yet none of those guys even get a hint of disapproval, much less prosecuted.

[ Parent ]
Uh
Have we ever signed up someone to run WHO DID NOT EVEN KNOW THEY WERE RUNNING? This is WAY worse!  

[ Parent ]
Haha
Just imagine if a candidate managed to win in spite of not actually knowing about the whole being a candidate thing

[ Parent ]
No one can trust me ever again...
Today is a milestone...I turned 40 years old.

The difference between 30 and 40???  I'm about 10 lbs lighter, my hair is still jet black (no, I don't have any dye assistance), and I now use reading glasses.  Besides that, not a darn bit of difference.  

I thought I'd share that with anyone.  I grew up hating the stories from people that are a 1,000 years old telling us to "wait until you are 40...blah...blah...blah...wait until you are 40....blah.blah.blah....".

Oh yeah, another fallacy...I was told that by the time I was 40, I'd no longer be a bleeding heart liberal.  Well, first off, I wouldn't classify myself as ever being a "bleeding heart liberal", but I do know that I haven't become more conservative as the years go by.  

I already feel better now....

40, male, Democrat, NC-04


heh
A lot of the hair I had at 30 isn't there anymore, but what's left is almost all still brown.  

41, Ind, CA-05

[ Parent ]
You probably have more hair than I do
But early baldness runs in my family

28, Unenrolled, MA-08

[ Parent ]
OH-Sen: Ken Blackwell leads GOP field
Blackwell????
I didn't know anyone was even talking about him running.  

[ Parent ]
Oh please make it so.
I doubt he'd get within ten points of Brown.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
10? Hah.
I don't think he'd get within 20.  It'd be Portman-Fisher in reverse.

23, Male, Democrat, OH-13

[ Parent ]
Calling All Missouri Democrats!
I've watched the repeat of last week's "Real Time with Bill Maher," which featured, among others, this Tea Party member and CNN contributor Dana Loesch. I remember her being on the show once before, where she made claims about the stimulus spending that were so far off the mark an automobile reporter for The Wall Street Journal actually became a little snotty and had to correct her. (I'm not sure whether she was lying or just too ignorant to realize her error. Regardless, she's quite clearly a mental midget.) On her most recent episode, she claimed there were eight instances of voter fraud being prosecuted in St. Louis.

Is that even remotely accurate? What, specifically, was she referring to? If she's as accurate as John Fund is with this stuff (as in, not very, to say the least), I wouldn't think twice to disregard what she says, but I'm always curious to see if these people are lying or just mentally ill.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


Fuck her
The only "voter fraud" being committed in St. Louis is that the fucking Republicans permanently under-resource the area in terms of available polling locations in an attempt to suppress (black) voter turnout. And Missouri has no advance voting or absentee balloting at all (again, thanks to Republicans) so if you don't make it to a polling place on Election Day, you aren't voting. THAT is the fucking fraud and I frankly don't care what that delusional wild-eyed fascist crackpot is lying about this time.

Sigh. Ugh, okay fine....now I am kinda curious as to what she's referring to. But sorry, no clue...

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.


[ Parent ]
I've actually thought about
trying to read one of John Fund's book (in the book store, of course; I'm not giving that clown anything except some low-cost free time of mine) just to see if he was as nutty as I suspect he is. We're talking about a matter of facts, not values. Perhaps there's more to his claims that I realize. (I doubt that's the case, of course.) But if there isn't, you have to wonder what his game is: is there virtually nothing else he can spend his time on?  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Fund's book that wingnuts like to cite has been thoroughly debunked......
Your time would be better spent looking up online the various takedowns of the book than wasting time on the book itself.

Fund essentially spends a lot of time typing up fictitious claims and arguments about voter "fraud" that doesn't exist.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Louisiana
So it's pretty much expected that Rep. Richmond (D) will get a New Orleans to Baton Rouge district to make up for lost population and to maintain 60%+ African-American representation.

The more interesting thing I notice from all three proposed maps is the fact that they split northern Louisiana in two horizontal slices instead of vertically down the middle as they do now.  The effect of this is the proposed northern-most district (newly numbered as LA-06) would be nearly 40% black, while the one below it (the new LA-05) drops to 20% black, whereas under the current map both northern districts are about 33% black.  I can't tell if either Rodney Alexander or John Fleming lives and/or would run in this new LA-06, or challenge each other in the new (and much friendlier) LA-05.

But this has to be rather unusual to mess with those two district lines so significantly when as far as I can tell it is rather unnecessary...the districts will physically expand as they must to accommodate the loss of a congressional district, but why change the districts so drastically?

Republicans have complete control in Louisiana for the first time since Reconstruction so I can't see them signing off on a map that basically expects a GOP incumbent to win a 40% black district, while making most of the other districts under 25% black.


I heard
from GOPvoter that AA members of the legislature are working on a possible deal with Republicans on the coast that saves Landry and creates a second VRA district.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I tried to draw two VRA districts this morning...
Here's the Dave's file: http://www.2shared.com/file/7F...

Try opening it an messing with my lines.

Neither had a minority plurality. Baton Rouge was 45.7% AA and New Orleans was 38.9% AA. I really don't see a way to make two AA districts anymore. You could have with the 2000 data, and I remember seeing a few plans on here using the 2000 data or estimates to do it.
Do you have a link for this info? Or was it a private correspondence?

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.


[ Parent ]
Roguemapper did it.
He did it under that last diary about Arkansas redistricting.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
...
Yes, but didn't he do that with pre-2010 data?  

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.

[ Parent ]
It was roughly a week ago.
I think he used 2010 data.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Also, maybe I misheard it
Maybe what GOPvoter meant was that the the deal being hammered out would create an AA influence seat (i.e. ~40% AA) that has a sporting chance of voting for a Democrat.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Just not sure why Republicans would agree to that
when Democrats aren't in a very strong bargaining position.  What do Republicans get out of that?

[ Parent ]
Their plan was
To strike a deal with Acadiana (Coastal LA) to create the coastal district that they are pushing for (along with Landry) that would give him a much better chance of surviving than any other proposal. They said they would vote for a map with a coastal district if Acadiana legislators voted for the same map with two AA majority seats.  

[ Parent ]
...
You could still do it if Louisiana hadn't lost a seat.  

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.

[ Parent ]
Not quite
They tried to make 2 VRA Seats last time with 7 districts, but crowding from other districts and the way the AA population is arranged made it so it had to be a blatant racial gerrymander (Z-shaped).  That was struck down by the court.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
...
... It was WHERE they placed the districts that was the problem. With 7 seats you could easily place an AA district on Baton Rouge and another on New Orleans. Each without having to take in excess outlying area.

I've just redone as best as possible Roguemapper's Baton Rouge AA district with the 2010 data and it definitely isn't AA. Under the previous data it is, but under 2010 it is over 60 percent white.  

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.


[ Parent ]
Who the heck are you talking about?
Is there some other Roguemapper running around here? Because you're obviously not talking about my Louisiana map...



[ Parent ]
Sure there is.
la 2 vra

Green district is 62.3% AA VAP, Yellow one 55.4% AA VAP.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)


[ Parent ]
...
We both know that I mean VRA districts that would pass court muster.  

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.

[ Parent ]
Sure. You can easily sacrifice
African-American percentage for compactness. Note that these aren't 50.0% districts, one is 55%, the other 62%. Lots of space to make them more compact.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

[ Parent ]
You could make
a fairly compact majority AA district outside of New Orleans (an L-Shaped one), but it would require both AA districts to be in the very low 50's% AA.  That might open a can of legal worms, though.

To be sure, I'd say it's more likely AL or SC can draw a second VRA seat without too much trouble, but I'm a noob at this stuff.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Yeah
There were a few black caucus members talking about doing that, but Rep. Gallot, a black caucus member, said he will not push for it. Without him, they can't do it.

[ Parent ]
Also
rogumapper said that you can keep Richmond's district majority AA without going up to Baton Rouge.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
yes
You can get over 50% by going most of the way up to Baton Rouge, but the issue may be that the black percentage would be somewhat lower than the current district. I'm not a lawyer but I think that should be permissible, as population loss has made it impossible to draw a compact district that respects political boundaries and still has the same black percentage as the current district.

41, Ind, CA-05

[ Parent ]
It would be very low
By the time you get that close to Baton Rouge, you may as well just go all the way and get a near 60% district. From a Republican stand point, it makes sense. It makes Cassidy so much safer. I have two plans on RRH. One barely goes into Baton Rouge, the other one takes in every black precint in BR>  

[ Parent ]
Those maps
I really can't see any of them happening. Sen. Kolkesta (R) who is in charge of the Senate redistricting has said he will not consider any proposal of a single northern district.
And yes, when the Senate had a D majority, the redistricting head was a Republican. The Republican majority house's redistricting is led by a Democrat. Louisiana is strange indeed.  

[ Parent ]
Minor correction: Sean Duffy represents WI-07, not WI-03


21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/



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