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North Carolina without an I-85 NC-12

by: borodino21

Tue Mar 08, 2011 at 12:35 AM EST


I just wish I could see ten different ways of dealing with the Democrats in the Triad, rather than ten different variations that all deal with them the same way: using NC-12.
roguemapper

Two of the most recent NC redistricting diaries have featured roguemapper's cri de couer against I-85-based NC-12s in their comments. Here, I'm only delivering two different ways of dealing with the Triad Dems instead of ten. I hope the comment section will make up for the missing eight.

The argument against an I-85-based NC-12 is threefold: (1) it was upheld in the courts as a partisan-based and not minority-based gerrymander; (2) creating a minority-majority NC-12 barely requires leaving Charlotte, let alone Mecklenburg County; and (3) state Republicans have said they don't want one. I'm currently too lazy to source any of those statements and I'm not interested in arguing them. My purpose is to discuss North Carolina maps that treat that argument as true. Think about it like a move trailer, if it helps:

(booming movie announcer voice) In a world where North Carolina Republicans are committed to a compact, Charlotte-based, minority-majority NC-12... (/booming movie announcer voice)

I'm presenting two maps here. One is an  unaggressive and therefore unlikely map that cuts out Kissell but gives the Democrats a new district in the Triad. (It's also got retrogression issues.) I'm posting it because I think it's an interesting baseline for what a minimally gerrymandered map could look like. There's a grand total of ten counties statewide that are split between two or more districts. The other is an extremely aggressive map which creates 10 McCain districts.

Pictures and discussion are after the jump.

borodino21 :: North Carolina without an I-85 NC-12
(Note: I don't generally like changing colors, because I'm used to the defaults and I assume others are too. But there are too many blues in the first 13 colors for a NC map. On the first map, NC-08 is Beige. On the second map, NC-12 is Beige.)

Map One




Not much to say about this one. It's my best attempt to use county integrity as my first priority, with partisan effects as my second. All six Republicans should be fine in districts that McCain carried by at least 9 points by at least 5 pts. Correction: The preceding sentence was incorrect. My 8PVI rating means that McCain did at least 9 pts better than he did nationally in all six Republican districts, but that only means that he won them by at least 5 points, not 9. The seven Democrats have a more varied range of impacts. Shuler and Miller are in districts that are about one point more McCain-friendly. McIntyre's district gets a seven point boost in Obama-friendliness. Kissell's district is axed and relocated to the Triad. Miller and Watt hold steady.

NC-01, obviously, would be contentious. There are retrogression concerns in having it become majority-white in terms of VAP (total population it's merely plurality white). It's also lost about six points worth of Obama-friendliness. Something like this would require a Republican legislature that's willing to test the bounds what the courts will let them get away with. If they were willing to adopt the rest of the map (not likely), some playing around with borders of NC-01 and NC-03 should be able to result in better districts for both Jones and Butterfield and satisify retrogression concerns.  (Note that this map has Jones drawn out of his district.)

I don't actually endorse this version of NC-01 -- again, this particular map is meant to be a baseline for county-integrity. This is important primarily because the Republicans in charge of redistricting have been talking a big game about a clean map. I wanted something to be able to compare to their eventual map.

Map Two

There should be more to say about this one, since it is an actual proposal. But I'm tired, so I'm going to let the pictures tell most of the story. This is, ostensibly, a 10-3 map. Note that is a fairly clean map as well, with a total of 19 counties split between two or more districts.


The three Democratic districts are Durham + the core of the old First, Greensboro + Chapel Hill + downtown Raleigh, and Charlotte. Foxx's district is red enough to absorb all of Winston-Salem easily. McHenry's is likewise red enough to absorb Asheville.

I've lumped two incumbent Democrats into one uber-Democratic seat in the north and two incumbent Democrats into one fairly-Republican seat in the south. I'm curious how the primary process would play out in this NC-04.

There are two new Republican open seats. Note how evenly spread Republican strength is -- all in the McCain +7 to +12 range.






Update: Re-reading my diary, I realized that I incorrectly described the meaning of my 8PVI rating. I've struck through and corrected a sentence up in the Map One section. 8PVI is based on Cook PVI but only uses 2008 voting data. It's a measure of how much better Obama or McCain did in a jurisdiction than they did nationwide. The nationwide balance was 53.5 Obama to 46.5 McCain. So O+10 means Obama won a jurisdiction 63.5 to 36.5. M+5 means McCain won a jurisdiction 51.5 to 48.5.

Poll
Who would win the Democratic primary in the second map's NC-04?
David Price
Brad Miller
Some other Triangle-based politician
A Greensboro-based politician
Someone else

Results

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DrPhillips & Twohundertseventy
I just saw that you'd already started posting non-I-85 maps in SaoMagnifico's diary. Since it's the topic I'm looking to see discuss here, feel free to repost here if you like.

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.

Sure, there's mine. 9-4.
nc 9-4

Green: McCain 59.5-Obama 39.3, Shuler.
Pink: McCain 55.5-Obama 43.2, McHenry
Gold: McCain 60.8-Obama 38.0, Foxx
Teal: McCain 54.6- Obama 44.4, Coble
Salmon (Greensboro) Obama 57.9- McCain 41.3, vacant
'Cornflower Blue' (NC-12) Obama 70.9-McCain 28.4, 56.5% minority non-VAP, but that's with 2008 estimates, and I guess the VAP effect and the strong Hispanic growth here (the seat is 13.2% Hispanic) cancel each other out. Maybe 55% minority VAP. Watt.
Light Blue: McCain 55.2- Obama 44.0, Myrick
'Slate Blue' (Fayetteville): McCain 54.9-Obama 44.3- Kissell
Grey: McCain 55.0- Obama 44.1- McIntyre
Green: McCain 55.7-Obama 43.4- Ellmers
Red: Obama 66.2- McCain 32.8, Miller, Price
Purple: McCain 55.2- Obama 44.0, Jones
Yellow: Obama 68.7, McCain 30.7, plurality Black, majority minority (42.3% White non-VAP, so I guess about 46% Black, 44% White VAP?), Butterfield.  

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)


[ Parent ]
Also, I think I'm the first person to
concede Greensboro-Winston its own Dem seat in a 9-4 configuration. Most maps seem to create the fourth Dem district in Fayetteville-Lumberton.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

[ Parent ]
Thanks for the repost
I'm particularly impressed that you found an arrangment that keeps Fayetteville whole but in a GOP district. I'd discovered that those central counties were really Republican, but I never realized that they could completely swamp out Fayetteville.

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.

[ Parent ]
Repost
Photobucket

Granted, NC-1 here is a bit less black, I think it might pass the test based on compactness, if not, it could be tweaked. NC-1 goes from 62% Obama to 68%, while NC-4 drops just one point to 62% Obama. NC-2 and NC-3 are 55% McCain. NC-7 is 50% McCain, down from 52% (McIntyre loses some stronger Dem areas of Robeson, so he still has to work hard). NC-8 is 53% McCain. NC-13 is 54% McCain and it would be Coble's seat. I sunk Greensboro into an even PVI district, which would be a toss-up. NC-12 is contained to Mecklenberg and is 65% Obama, while NC-9 stretches out to Cleveland and Rutherford Counties, to become 57% McCain. NC-10 is the most gerrymandered district, becoming 57% McCain by taking on Asheville and NC-11 become 58% McCain.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.


[ Parent ]
Thanks for the repost
I find the double-dip for NC-01 into both Raleigh and Durham interesting. I wonder just how radically that changes the urban-rural percentages for that district.

Maintaining Myrick's southern wrap-around Charlotte is also interesting. My own aesthetics-driven instincts have never let me make that move.

What are the voting percentages for Foxx's district?

How much work would be to actually get Coble into the district you intend to have him run in (my understanding is that he lives in Summerfield, north of Greensboro)?  

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.


[ Parent ]
Foxx's district would be 54% McCain
I figured that should be about enough to keep her secure

It would take just a few tweaks to get Coble in that district, doing so actually bumps up the McCain percentage.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.


[ Parent ]
I don't think I got any comments on my revised proposal...
So here it is again:

I agree with your conclusion and others' conclusions that if Republicans are willing to tolerate a compact VRA seat in Charlotte, they can probably get a 4-9 map. The advantage to mine, I think, is that instead of leaving more than one of those nine Republican districts in the hands of a Democratic incumbent (Rep. Shuler, obviously, is the one), I dump Rep. Kissell into one of those four Democratic districts and stick him with a VRA drawing for good measure.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native


[ Parent ]
Reps. Kissell and McIntyre, that is
Same district though.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
I like your Seventh
It feels like it has potential. I also, speaking fictionally as a Republican, like the idea of combining Kissell and McIntyre. It's something I would give a good amount of priorty to.

The major downside that I see is that this is still a super-ugly map. The Republicans are talking like aestheticists, so I think they're aiming for something that at least appears pretty. My second map has an ugliness to it, but it's still has about half as many counties split as yours does.

As a side note, looking at the close-up for Greensboro in the other thread, you have an errant precinct coded for NC-13 in the midst of NC-05.  

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.


[ Parent ]
Asheville
I agree that NC 12 would possibly be clotted around Charlotte and NC 1 needs to expand into the Triangle to stay majority AA.  However, I maintain that the GOP, if they're really serious about compactness, probably won't touch NC 11.  Even with Asheville and to a lesser extent the rest of Buncombe Co trending bluer every election, there are still enough blood red areas in the mountains that the right Republican could unseat Shuler.  The main reason he survived the last election is not his strength as much as the weakness of GOP recruitment in the district.  

further, the GOP would more likely try to add to NC 1 by expanding into Raleigh, throwing Miller under the bus and cushioning Ellmers, than going into Durham.  Wake Co. with the rest of the Triangle is just too big and blue for them to try cracking it between Ellmers, Price, and Miller.  It just screams dummymander.


Thanks!
An excellent thread, IMHO. I plan to make some new NC maps myself soon. I have a couple of mapping schemes in mind that I don't see here. Hopefully I can get them posted here sometime late tonight.  

I thought you'd like it.
I'm looking forward to seeing your maps.

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.

[ Parent ]
A first attempt
Here's a first attempt at an 11-3 map. I had a few goals in mind with this one:

1) Make NC-01 at least 50% AA voting age population.
2) Minimize county splitting.
3) Put Kissell, McIntyre, and Etheridge in the same district.
4) Put Miller & Price in the same district.

That said, there are some distinct dummymander risks on this map, but here it is.

NC-01 (D-Butterfield): 69% Obama - 31% McCain [VAP 38.9% White - 50.1% AA]
NC-02 (R-Ellmers): 44% Obama - 55% McCain
NC-03 (R-Jones): 45% Obama - 54% McCain
NC-04 (D-Price/Miller): 63% Obama - 36% McCain
NC-05 (R-Foxx): 45% Obama - 54% McCain
NC-06 (Vacant): 46% Obama - 53% McCain
NC-07 (Vacant): 45% Obama - 54% McCain
NC-08 (D-Kissell/McIntyre): 47% Obama - 52% McCain
NC-09 (R-Myrick): 44% Obama - 55% McCain
NC-10 (R-McHenry): 43% Obama - 56% McCain
NC-11 (D-Shuler): 41% Obama - 58% McCain
NC-12 (D-Watt): 67% Obama - 32% McCain [VAP 48.5% White - 33.9% AA]
NC-13 (R-Coble): 46% Obama - 53% McCain


[ Parent ]
Nice work
3) Put Kissell, McIntyre, and Etheridge in the same district.

The reference to Etheridge here about a potential return to office, right?

I think my main worry (acting fictionally as Republican) is the balance between NC-10 and N-11. With 10 weaker than 11, I'd be worried about Shuler jumping districts.

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.


[ Parent ]
Also
It makes Foxx vulnerable.  She is the most detestable member of the NC delegation (she is notorious for being rude and flippant to her constituents) and to cut the districts R partisan advantage practically in half would create an opening.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I agree with you
Despite the reliability of this district on paper, Foxx as the nominee would definitely create an opening. One thing I'd say to that is that if any GOPer is going to get thrown under the bus it'll be Foxx. She's not just rude and flippant to her constituents, but to everyone, including her GOP colleagues. That's just who she is.

[ Parent ]
I should add
If Dale Folwell, speaker pro tem of the NC House wants to run, then he would have an excellent chance of defeating Foxx in a primary if the NC-05 district were drawn like this. He lives in Winston-Salem.

[ Parent ]
Shuler in NC-10
Shuler would have serious problems running in this NC-10 district. He is very unfamiliar to voters in the areas east of Asheville that are inclined to vote GOP, unlike in the current NC-11 where he's best-known in the GOP-leaning areas west of Asheville (that's where he was a high-school football standout, where the Tennessee football fans are at, and where he grew up & worked after his NFL career ended). There's no good reason I can think of for the GOP foothills east of Asheville to dump McHenry, who is 'one of their own' in favor of Shuler from all the way in Waynesville.

Then, in Asheville proper, there are many liberals who will not vote for Shuler no matter what. They might be shooting himself in the foot, but his opposition to health care reform, Nancy Pelosi, and LGBT issues is a serious problem for him with otherwise rock solid voters. If Shuler jumped over, he would surely face a serious primary challenge, and if he won the primary, he would have major problems holding down the Democratic base. They wouldn't vote for McHenry, of course, but a lot of them would just skip that ballot line.

The biggest question I think is whether McHenry wants to deal with campaigning in Asheville. It might just come down to how much he likes the drive through Old Fort Gap. lol If it were simply an issue of relative GOP/DEM numbers you could easily trade Gaston Co. precincts for Buncombe Co. precincts to tilt the GOP balance more to NC-10 than NC-11.  


[ Parent ]
Some details
NC-01: The rationale here is that in order to get a 50%+ AA district, you have to pull out of all the 'tendrils' in the central coast and push into the Triangle instead. That is the best argument for drawing a more compact district despite abandoning the central coast preclearance counties.

NC-02: The southern Wake Co. areas are trending leftward, and that's a problem for the GOP, but this district is designed to contain no 'core' of Democratic strength.

NC-03: The Democratic primary electorate should be majority AA. The idea of course being that a black Democrat will have a tougher time in the general.

NC-04: Not much to say, except that I wanted to keep it in the Triangle for this map rather than pushing into the Triad. The basic principle for this map is to pack the Triangle while cracking the Triad.

NC-05: Foxx may have issues dealing with all of Winston-Salem, but the district as a whole should have a minimum of swing voters. In other words, the McCain vote should be a fairly reliable 'floor' for the GOP.

NC-06: Again, the Democratic primary electorate should be majority AA. The GOP base is again relatively reliable - this region does not contain many swing voters.
A very slight change could put Thom Tillis, the new speaker of the NC House into this district.

NC-07: McIntyre has been drawn out of the district and Onslow County has been drawn into it. The GOP vote in Onslow tends to be especially firm because it includes a lot of marines that aren't swayed by local 'blue dog' appeal. This also gives Harry Brown, the new GOP majority leader of the state senate a district he could run in.

NC-08: Though the stats here are similar to McIntyre's current district, it contains very little of his current territory. Meanwhile, Kissell would be faced with a much more hostile electorate, and Etheridge has been dropped here also just in case he's thinking of a rematch with Ellmers. The central Piedmont GOP vote is also much more reliable than the swingier coastal counties. If

NC-09: Myrick's district should be much more solid, trading substantial parts of Mecklenburg County that are drifting leftward for more solid suburban GOP voters in Union & Cabarrus County.

NC-10: McHenry takes the bulk of Asheville but this should be easily outweighed by the rock solid GOP vote of the western Piedmont.

NC-11: Shuler ends up with a virtually impossible district.

NC-12: The Democratic nominee should have no problem winning, but Watt might very well face a serious primary challenge.

NC-13: Coble might very well not want this district, which should be much 'swingier' than the NC-06 district despite similar stats. It would not take much to put his address in NC-06 were that the case. If Coble didn't run here, then this district would be very well suited for Phil Berger, GOP president pro tem of the state senate.


[ Parent ]
NC-08
I also meant to add that Paul Stam, GOP majority leader of the state House, could easily be drawn into NC-08 (he lives in Apex, just across the Wake Co. border).

[ Parent ]
Oh, and that should be 10-3
Obviously enough.. Darn typo bug!!

[ Parent ]
Superb work--That's what I had in mind for NC
The GOP could would love this map.  The linchpin, in this map, is Greensboro area.  If the GOP goes with the split of Guilford county this map would be  perfect for them.


[ Parent ]
That second map is truly wicked
I'm trying to suss out possible reasons why Republicans wouldn't draw it that way, but I'm coming up blank. That's a brutal gerrymander.

Are you using 2008 estimates, or the 2010 data?

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native


Well
the NC GOP said they'd opt for more compact districts and try to emulate their state legislative districts (which are constitutionally required to be whole-county) where they can.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I find it hard to believe they'll keep their promise.


20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
Chairman Dockham said
"We've gained quite a few people since the last Census," Dockham said. "That could lead to possibly some different districts being drawn. We'll try to make it compact, so people know where the lines are and know who their representatives are."

http://www.the-dispatch.com/ar...

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Now, if they try to
overreach, they may run into legal trouble with the DOJ.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
To amend...
The only thing I can come up with is that it really doesn't do tons to shore up Rep. Ellmers. Even still, it's a very solid map.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
Thanks! (I think... It's always hard to know how to respond when you draw a good map for the opposition.)
The map was drawn with the 2010 Census data, and then redrawn in the 2008 estimate version to get partisan breakdowns.

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.

[ Parent ]
Two more maps
Map #3 walks back my second map slightly, conceding a Lumberton-Fayetteville while bumping Myrick and Ellmers up to, like, 60-40 districts.

Map #4 concedes a Triad district also. I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'm pretty sure all of the GOP districts are solid. And it continues to move Asheville out of NC-11, so I'm pretty sure Shuler would go down. Potential downside: it throws Ellmers under the bus. Not throwing her under the bus would result in an uglier map, but it's feasible.



30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.


I decided to experiment...
With combining our maps, in a sense.

It came out pretty well. If you're a Republican.

NC-01 (blue) - 67% Obama, 32% McCain - Butterfield
NC-02 (green) - 45% Obama, 54% McCain - open
NC-03 (purple) - 45% Obama, 54% McCain - Jones
NC-04 (red) - 69% Obama, 30% McCain - Price and Miller
NC-05 (yellow) - 45% Obama, 53% McCain - Foxx
NC-06 (teal) - 44% Obama, 55% McCain - Coble
NC-07 (grey) - 45% Obama, 55% McCain - Ellmers
NC-08 (slate blue) - 45% Obama, 55% McCain - McIntyre and Kissell
NC-09 (cyan) - 42% Obama, 57% McCain - Myrick
NC-10 (magenta) - 40% Obama, 59% McCain - McHenry
NC-11 (chartreuse) - 44% Obama, 55% McCain - Shuler
NC-12 (orange) - 68% Obama, 32% McCain - Watt
NC-13 (salmon) - 46% Obama, 53% McCain - open

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native


Nice work
The more maps I see, the more persuaded I am that the GOP will shoot for 10-3, rather than 9-4 as I thought previously. Even if one or two of them are swingy, what do they have to lose? Especially in light of how they can more precisely slice & dice precincts in split counties than we're permitted to by Dave's app, I now think 10-3 is definitely within reach.

[ Parent ]
Agreed. Very nice work.
Going from 7-6 to 10-3 the other way is pretty scary.

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.

[ Parent ]

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