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AL, HI, MO, NV, UT: Population by CD

by: Crisitunity

Thu Feb 24, 2011 at 6:03 PM EST


(Bumped - promoted by DavidNYC)

The Census Bureau unleashed population data from five more states today. First off is Alabama, who remained at seven seats (although they were close to losing one). Their target for 2010 is 682,819, up from about 635K in 2000. Most of the action looks to be in the Birmingham area, where suburban AL-06 was the big gainer and urban VRA district AL-07 was the big loser. While the knee-jerk expectation would be that AL-07 would simply extend out into the suburbs to make up that deficit, it's likelier that the newly-GOP-controlled legislature will try to extend AL-07 to Montgomery or Huntsville (or both) to incorporate the African-American populations there, in order to make it blacker and the state's other districts safer for white Republican representatives.

District Population Deviation
AL-01 687,841 5,022
AL-02 673,877 (8,942)
AL-03 681,298 (1,521)
AL-04 660,162 (22,657)
AL-05 718,724 35,905
AL-06 754,482 71,663
AL-07 603,352 (79,467)
Total: 4,779,736

Hawaii is pretty drama-free; its new target is 680,151, up from 605K in 2000. With Maui as the fastest growing part of the state, the 2nd will need to give a little population to the 1st, although the boundary movement will happen in the suburban parts of Oahu.

District Population Deviation
HI-01 658,672 (21,479)
HI-02 701,629 21,748
Total: 1,360,301

Missouri missed the cut, and needs to lose one of its nine seats. Based on eight seats, its new target is 748,616, up from 622K in 2000. Missouri redistricting isn't going to go well for Dems (and for Russ Carnahan, in particular) because the three districts with the lowest population are the three districts with Democratic representatives. While MO-01 lost the most population, the VRA will probably keep this in place as a black-majority district for Lacy Clay: the city of St. Louis's population has shrunk so much (now only 319K) that it only makes up about half a district anymore, and his district already includes the city's black-majority northern suburbs, so it's likely to have to move westward into the inner-ring suburbs of St. Louis County or else southward to encompass all of St. Louis city. Either way, that's coming out of Russ Carnahan's MO-03, which will also need to give some ground to MO-08 below it.

District Population Deviation
MO-01 587,069 (161,547)
MO-02 706,622 (41,994)
MO-03 625,251 (123,365)
MO-04 679,375 (69,241)
MO-05 633,887 (114,729)
MO-06 693,974 (54,642)
MO-07 721,754 (26,862)
MO-08 656,894 (91,722)
MO-09 684,101 (64,515)
Total: 5,988,927

I think we've found the most populous CD in the entire nation: NV-03, with more than a million people (its main rival for that honor, UT-03, didn't break that mark; see below). Nevada, of course, is moving to four districts, with a target of 675,138 (up only slightly from 666K in 2000, but that was a three-district map). As you might expect, the state has become significantly more Hispanic, with the 1st going from 28% Hispanic in 2000 to 37%, the 2nd from 15% to 20%, and the 3rd from 16% to 23%.

While there had been discussion of Joe Heck's district expanding outward to take in some of the rural counties, that will barely need to happen. Clark County (where Las Vegas is) has a population of 1,951,269, which is 72.3% of the state's population (up from 68% in 2000). In other words, with 3/4s of the state's population in Clark Co., NV-02 can pretty much continue being all of the state except Clark County (although it'll need to lose its current small portions in Clark Co.), while Clark Co. will be divvied up among three districts instead of two. (Although, considering how empty the cow counties are, that stray 2.7% of the state may still wind up occupying a huge geographical footprint.)

District Population Deviation
NV-01 820,134 144,996
NV-02 836,562 161,424
NV-03 1,043,855 368,717
Total: 2,700,551

Utah, of course, is also set to gain a seat. Its new four-seat target is 690,971 (the target was 744K in 2000, when it had three seats). The biggest growth was in Salt Lake City's southern suburbs and also in the Provo area further south, both of which are found in UT-03. Whether the GOP-controlled legislature creates a new seat confined to the SLC area or tries cracking it four ways instead of three will depend on whether they decide to target Jim Matheson (currently the Democrat with the reddest House seat) or concedes a seat to him.

District Population Deviation
UT-01 906,660 215,869
UT-02 890,993 200,022
UT-03 966,232 275,261
Total: 2,763,885
Crisitunity :: AL, HI, MO, NV, UT: Population by CD
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No big surprises in these numbers and yes
thanks for posting them.  Yet again we get a little uptick on the number of hispanics once the census numbers become final.

I think there are close to 550K hispanics in Clark county by my quick calculations.  I think CD1 is only 45% white now.  I think that seat will be redrawn to have a heavy hispanic flavor.  That will not affect Berkley but in an open seat situation we could an hispanic win it.  I still see 2-2 in NV.  


CD-1 is only 39% white now, 37% hispanic


22, Male, Conservative Republican, anti-teabag, NY-8

[ Parent ]
Can you post the link?
 It's not that I'm questioning the facts but I want to see where you got this so I can see the new demographics from other districts.  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  


[ Parent ]
Here
http://factfinder2.census.gov/...

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
Either NV-01 or NV-04...
It will depend on who's running where, and which candidates are most favored by legislators. There are occasionally rumors of newly elected State Senator Ruben Kihuen (D-North Las Vegas) running in the new NV-04 seat, but he's seen as someone too young and still in need to "pay his dues" before seeking another higher office. (Still, one day he will go even higher... He is a rising Latino star here!)

What's more likely is either Assembly Speaker John Oceguera (D-East Side) (who's termed out) or Dina Titus getting first dibs on the new NV-04 seat. As long as Shelley runs for Senate, NV-01 will be ready made for Steven Horsford.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Just realized something.
If Berkley does run for the Senate in 2012, and Steven Horsford ends up winning a seat in the house, he would be the first African-American congressmen from the Mountain West, wouldn't he? That's pretty amazing, considering Las Vegas is only about 11% AA.

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)

[ Parent ]
Thanks, I didn't know until your comment that Horsford is black......
Ralston is truly race-blind, in a good way, in that he tweets about Horsford all the time but you'd never know Horsford is black from anything Ralston has ever written.  I sure didn't know until just now!

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
Don't ever read The Sun?
And see the pretty pictures? ;-)

Honestly, what makes me proud of our state is looking at our leadership and how diverse it's become in the last decade. Who knew we'd one day have a Native American Assembly Speaker and African American Senate Majority Leader?

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Plus a hispanic governor
not many states can say that

[ Parent ]
Kind of like how I had no clue that
ex-Gov. Doug Wilder is black until I read about him on wikipedia.  Did not expect that at all.  I also read about how he would take pot shots at Senator Robb and supported the GOPer over Mark Warner in 2001.  What's with that?!

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
You must be young, Wilder was big national news in 1989......
Wilder was the first elected black Governor since reconstruction, and that he achieved this feat in the capital of the confederacy made it that much more dramatic and poetic.

Wilder actually did well fiscally as Governor but had some personal controversies that rendered him unpopular by the end of his term.  He also ran for President in 1992, a minor candidate who early on was my first choice in spite of being a C-lister and having troubles at home.  He flamed out as expected, then proved a cantankerous old crank later in life right through to today.

Wilder has never endorsed a Republican so you're mistaken about his opposing Warner.  But Wilder has stayed neutral at times, including in 2009 VA-Gov.  Wilder has a lot of personal grudges and other minor things going on in his head that make him a very unreliable Democrat in public, even though he's never actually supported a Republican.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
As the first black post-reconstruction gov in the South
Wilder was quickly forgiven for some political tendencies (esp law and order) -- that remind me of Artur Davis '10.

There's a famous ad somewhere of a Sheriff who looked something like Haley Barbour endorsing Wilder -- if I remember right, in a Shenandoah valley drawl.

And this was before Jesse Helms ran his "quota" campaign against Harvey Gantt.


[ Parent ]
Oh yeah, if I remember right
I thought of the NoVA at the time as a Republican area -- Ds working in DC all lived in MD.

[ Parent ]
The story back then was...
...Fairfax County was center-right, and Loudoun and Prince William were conservative.

Nowadays, Fairfax County is center-left, and still moving further left, and Loudoun and PW are center-right instead of full-blown conservative.

Arlington and Alexandria are unchanged over the past couple decades, still the same degree of liberal.

All this is to say yeah, you're ultimately right, NoVA used to be more conservative.  Wilder won NoVA, his message of being a fiscally conservative Democrat sold well there.

I'm very happy to be in Fairfax County when it's become much more liberal.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
NV-1
How would it look like as a VRA seat? It is now barely plurality white, can GOP sue for that to happen? What would the implications on rest of map be? Any link to such a diary? Thanks.

22, Male, Conservative Republican, anti-teabag, NY-8

Not even sure
that it could be made one.  With the ACS estimate, the best I can do is 48-49% Hispanic.  The voting age population is probably 5% lower than that, so there would have to be significantly more Hispanics in the census count to get the voting age population over 50% Hispanic.

26, Male, Democrat, VA-08

[ Parent ]
Here's my take on NV1
Look at the makeup of NV state senate

10 republicans
9  white democrats
2  hispanic democrats

I understand that one additional state senate seat is slated to be hispanic this year.  I understand that one of the hispanic state senators is interested in being a congressman if Berkley moves up.  So hispanic influence is on the move in NV and adjusting the lines in NV1 to accomdate it should not be a problem.

I suspect NV1  becomes more hispanic.  I see some leverage in the state senate to draw the lines that way.  

Politically its 2-2 in NV in my opinion no matter what.  I just see NV1 staying under 39% white and it needs to lose people so its clear that white working class voters would be easy to draw into the new NV4.  There are obviousily lots of democrat voters in NV3 that can be pulled into NV4.  That seat has a million people is 50-50 right now.  


[ Parent ]
See my comment above.
I like Ruben. He's super smart and super talented. But at this point, I don't see his fellow legislators giving him NV-01 or NV-04 that easily. So far Horsford, Oceguera, Senator John Lee (D-North Las Vegas), Dina Titus, and Rory Reid are all considering running for Congress next year. It won't be easy to fend them all off, and it will be hard enough for legislators to figure out whom to draw NV-01 and NV-04 for.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
I did not realize
Steven Horsford was black.  He is senate majority leader and is right there in NV1. Berkley could just slide on over to NV4 and leave NV1 for Rueben and Horsford to fight for.  Or she could run for US senate.

I don't know either gentleman but based on their resumes they would make imposing candidates.


[ Parent ]
I drew a map a while back...
That had NV-01 as a Latino-majority seat. Eyeballing these Census numbers, I think it would hold up.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
White's make up less than 40% of Nevada's under 18 Population
Nevada under 18

White- 39.52%
Hispanic- 39.39%

Since the Census was nearly a year ago Hispanics have probably already become the largest racial group amoung those under 18.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan


Nevada by region
Percentage of the state population (2000)

Clark County 72.25% (68.85%)
Washoe County 15.6% (16.99%)
Rest of State 12.15% (14.16%)

The Democratic areas of the state are growing much faster than the Republican ones.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan


I don't know about actual population
but looking at the counties surrounding Clark and their 2008 vote totals, Nye would make up about 2/3 of the population needed in addition to Clark's.  It's Republican but much less so than other cow counties.

Besides Nye there is the potential to either add slightly more Dem votes to the "rest of the state" district, or add them to those pink areas to the Clark districts.  It's not a lot of votes, but adding Esmeralda and Mineral with Nye would be a few hundred votes more Dem than adding Lincoln with Nye.

So what should be the Dem priority, trying to make the three Clark districts as Dem as possible, or having the clark districts absorb some of the hard red cow counties to the north so that the pinker counties to the west can help defeat Sharon Angle should she run for Heller's seat?


[ Parent ]
Well, neither is really happening...
Since legislative GOPers look to use redistricting as a bargaining chip in the budget battle in Carson.

What will likely happen, however, is NV-03 probably taking on Nye so Joe Heck can have an easier reelection next year. NV-03 will probably be made redder so that NV-04 can be bluer.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
One or the other has to happen
See the post, Clark needs 2.7% more people for three districts.

How could anyone justify part of Clark snaking out to Heller's district?


[ Parent ]
Actually, it already is.
One of my best friends lives in NV-02, and she lives near Nellis. I have other friends who live in NV-02, and they live further south from me in Anthem!

Sadly, certain legislators like to play political games with redistricting here. That's really all it's about.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
It is now, but won't be, that's the point
With the population so close to the needs of three districts, NV-2 can't be justified reaching into Clark anymore, so that leaves the issue of what small parts of the state outside Clark will be included with the Clark districts, and will those areas be pink or deep red, and who should be wanting one or the other, Dems or Reps.

[ Parent ]
But anyway...
What will likely happen this time around is NV-02 getting out of Clark for good, and instead NV-03 inching out to some of the southern rurals. That's why I suspect Nye will be shifted into NV-03.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
We are looking at a 2-2 map
The General consensus is that in exchange for making NV-03 safer for Republican Joe Heck the new 4th district will be Democratic leaning. Democrats will have 2 safe Clark county Districts, the Republican parts of Clark county along with a couple of the cow Counties will be one Rep seat along with a district that covers the rest of the state.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
Well, that's not really the point
Okay assume two Republican districts, one being Heller's and one being Nye plus part of Clark.  There still needs to be about 1% of the state population added to that Nye district (or more bizarrely the two Clark Dem districts).

The question is, given the trending of the state, which district should Dems try to make slightly less red, Heller/2nd or Nye/4th?

I bring this up because the situation is very much like California in 2001.  While it is likely these two districts will be red in 2012, an overall trend is that Nevada is getting more Latino and more blue, so we should be anticipating that, and not just cluelessly say "they are both red" and not care if 1000 or so Dem voters are not split up between the two districts, nor put in the wrong district.

So, do we think Washoe+cow-counties will give us a plausible shot this decade against a terrible Republican or do we think the reddest areas of Clark+Nye will?

(In northeast CA there are three Republican House members, there are also three counties much more Dem-friendly than all the others... Nevada, Butte and suburban Sacramento... but those three counties are split between the three Republican districts!  A non-blackhead gerrymander would have had the foresight to put as much of those three counties as possible in the same district in 2001.  If that occured we would likely have one Dem Congressmember from northeast CA now.  So similarly, what is the better shot, however remote, to pick up a third seat in the next decade in Nevada?)


[ Parent ]
A Washoe-based district would be easier to win than a suburban Clark district
NV-02 is going to have to shrink, which will only make it less Republican. I think it will end up flipping to an Obama district (though not by much). NV-03 will probably end up being the most Republican district in the state.

[ Parent ]
Except for 3 things...
First, the Dem bench in Washoe isn't nearly as full as Clark's. There are Dem legislators there, but they're used to running in strongly Dem districts. It won't be easy to find a Northern Dem who can run up a big margin in Washoe while not getting slaughtered in the rurals.

Second, the GOP bench in Washoe is much fuller. And they have some "mainstream conservatives" like Dean Heller who know how to keep winning these districts. It wasn't until recently that Sharron Angle and her teabagger buddies started upsetting the apple cart here. We'll have to see if the teabaggers can cause more primary mayhem next year.

Third, the rurals just aren't easy... But they always vote. Again, any Dem running in NV-02 has to figure out either how not to get killed in the rural counties and/or how to boost Reno urban turnout to successfully ofset brutal rural numbers.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Good points both ways
But it is also true that if a person were to bet, the chances are better that NV-2 would have a lunatic Republican running at some point than NV-4.  Again, this is similar to California, where Charlie Brown almost beat Mcclintock, even though that district is redder than Lungren's district.

Then there is another issue, where is the growth?  Which district is more likely to grow Democrats?  NV-2 is massive now, but it appears the growth was more in southeast nevada than washoe or the cow counties.  But is Reno's economy more likely to perform better than Las Vegas' in the next decade, thus moving some growth up that way.

I think it's an interesting and very contradictory problem to look at.  Johnny's thinking may be right, but if tha is combined with "the Washoe bench is too liberal" then maybe we can never hope to lose Elko "only" 67/33.

Anyway, my own thinking so far does lead to trying to give NV-2 Mineral County and stick Lincoln county with Nye and NV-4, thus aiming to make NV-2 the longterm goal for seat #3, based on the chance the GOP will nominate a nut, while still leaving hope that NV-4 might possibly go purple via massive Hispanic growth if the Las vegas ecomomy somehow starts kicking butt in six years or so.


[ Parent ]
Well, at least that would make for...
Neater districts. Since Nye and Lincoln border Clark, that probably makes the most sense.

The growth is definitely down here in the south. That's just reality. Yes, Washoe is also growing, but their growth hasn't been as gangbuster crazy as ours.

Remember, Nevada is NOT California. You can't quite hope for a McClintock vs. Brown race in NV-02, since the political culture here is quite different. While there is a good possibility of a teabagger winning a NV-02 GOP primary, there are different dynamics at play here. And if Clark County growth resumes, the entire "conventional wisdom" of NV-03 may be completely upended (again).

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
McClintock = Angle in this context
It isn't impossible that Angle could win a primary in NV-2.

And interestingly, Obama defeated Mccain by 513 votes in what would be this new 4th (the whole state minus Clark, Nye and Lincoln counties).  

So it certainly is possible that a Democrat could win this new district if Angle or another poor Republican is the candidate.


[ Parent ]
On the other hand, if NV-3included Esmeralda and Mineral instead of Lincoln
McCain would have defeated Obama by 91 votes in this new 4th (all of Nevada except Clark, Nye, Esmeralda and Mineral counties).

Kind of amazing.


[ Parent ]
I meant the 2nd, the equivalent of heller's district


[ Parent ]
Of course, not...
The rurals are Sharron Angle Territory. She can most definitely run up the margin there to offset whatever trouble she has in Reno proper (where even a number of Republicans hate her!). But since even a number of Washoe Republicans don't like Angle, she would have to collect as much "Tea Party, Inc." national support to buy her way to a NV-02 primary win like she did for NV-Sen last year. It won't be a cakewalk.

And unless Sharron Angle or another teabagger is the NV-02 GOP nominee, a vote for Obama can't automatically be equated as a vote for the NV-02 Dem. (Unlike California, party ID isn't quite set in stone here.)

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Obviously an Obama vote can't equate
since it's obvious that the GOP can nominate canidates worse than Mccain.

Angle only beat Reid, a below average candidate by any measure, by 17k in one example of the new 2nd (every county except Clark, Nye and Lincoln).  That's only about 2.5% of the votes.  

It should be pretty obvious that it is possible in the next eight years for the Dems to nominate a strong canidate, the Reps to nominate a weak one, and for demographics to change for that margin to be overcome.


[ Parent ]
They will have to split Elko
I don't see any way around it, if the new district doesn't encroach on the Reno-area counties. It's not fair to the people of Elko, to have part of your county in a Clark district and part of your county in a Washoe district. But the only alternative is inappropriate splitting of the more populated areas so they will have to do it.
Of the 2 big districts, the Washoe district is the one that's more likely to become Democratic.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

[ Parent ]
No, they might not.
I just crunched the county numbers. NV-03 (assuming Joe Heck's district keeps the same number) only needs just over 74,000 more people to meet the 675,138 population target. I just got to that magic number by starting NV-03 in whatever parts of Clark County are left out of NV-01 and NV-04, then stretching it into Lincoln, White Pine, Eureka, Lander, Nye, and Esmeralda Counties. That gets us within 7,000 people of the 74,145 goal. From there, legislators can choose from several options, including:

- drawing Mineral and some parts of Churchill and/or Pershing Counties into NV-03

- drawing some combination of parts of Humboldt, Pershing, and Churchill Counties into NV-03

or

- cutting into Elko County to complete NV-03

And choosing any of these three options would essentially keep The Washoe Valley, Carson City, and other Reno Metropolitan adjacent rural areas together with Washoe County in NV-02.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Oh, and here's another option...
They might just draw parts of Pershing and Churchill Counties into NV-03, but keep all of Mineral County in NV-02. That would also allow for both districts to meet the population requirement while keeping all the Washoe Valley rurals and Elko County in NV-02.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Churchill and Pershing
Churchill and Pershing are much closer to Reno than Elko is. Would it make sense to take parts of those counties away from the Reno district, so that all of Elko can be in the Reno district? While Mineral, Churchill, Pershing, Humboldt are too remote to be part of the Reno/Carson metro area, they would at least gravitate towards it, and belong in that Congressional district. That leaves Elko which could go in either.
I think the 4th(?) would be Clark, Nye, Esmeralda, Lincoln, White Pine, and part of Elko. Maybe also Eureka and Lander.
I guess it depends on whether you want the 2nd(?) to be a Reno/Carson district or a Northern district.
You live in Nevada so you would know better than me.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

[ Parent ]
From what I understand...
Churchill and Pershing Counties don't identify so much with Washoe as much as Lyon, Douglas, Carson, and Storey Counties (aka The Carson Valley) do. IMHO it wouldn't be all that scandalous to add some sort of combination of Mineral, Churchill, Pershing, and/or Humboldt Counties to NV-03.

Elko, OTOH, may be best left in NV-02, since it's such a mining powerhouse and folks there may be offended over being represented by some "slick Las Vegas pol", even if that Vegas pol is a GOP stalwart like Joe Heck, Sue Lowden, or State Senator Barbara Cegavske (R-Summerlin). Perhaps I'll be proven wrong, but I suspect legislators will probably keep Elko tied to Washoe in NV-02 because Northern Nevada pols are much more pro-mining.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
That makes sense to me
so the outer Clark County district should include Lincoln, Nye, Esmeralda, Mineral, and all but 5579 people in Churchill, and without touching I-80.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

[ Parent ]
? I don't see any logical way for Elko to be split
What possible argument can there be to not include Nye with Clark?  Once you do that, you can't even get to Elko from Clark, let alone include it in a district.  All of Elko is pretty certain to be with washoe.

[ Parent ]
Clark + Nye + Esmeralda + Mineral + Churchill is almost exactly three districts
And makes for a +4000 Obama and Angle +14,000 NV-2 district.  

[ Parent ]
Mineral and Churchill should be with Reno/Carson
Mineral-to-Humboldt and everything west should go in one district. Lincoln and Nye should go in the outer-Clark district. That leaves the northeast corner, which can go either way because it is far away from everything. I think the Clark district gets Nye, Lincoln, Esmeralda, White Pine, and part of Elko, and maybe Eureka and Lander. The Reno/Carson district gets Mineral-to-Humboldt and whatever else it needs from the northeast corner.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

[ Parent ]
Why would they ever unnaturally split counties?
Basically 74,000 people are needed to be added to Clark to make three districts.  If counties are kept together, there are two clear options to almost be on the nose...

a) Nye, Esmeralda, Mineral, Churchill (almost exactly right)

b) Lincoln, White Pine, Elko, Eureka, Lander

The first makes a nice (more red) eastern district, the second makes a nice (more blue) southern district.

There is no way to include all of Nye and Elko in the same district.  Of course you could do all of Nye and some of Elko, or all of Elko and some of Nye, but why would anyone do that if it is not a gerrymander?

Even in the two above scenarios, if a few people were needed one way or another, they could/should be grabbed from Pershing county to make the maps compact.

From a Democratic perspective, I'd try to get option b).  Theis would make NV-3 more Republican and NV-2 more Democratic.  (Basically Elko is much more red than Nye.)  At the same time, growth in Clark might plausibly be able to overcome this extra redness, while NV-2 would be free of Elko and the other "most red" cow counties, so the longterm combination would be slower growth in washoe combining with the somewhat less red cow counties to possibly make the district more competitive in the next decade.


[ Parent ]
Another close option would be
Nye, Lincoln, White Pine, Eureka, Lander, Esmeralda, Mineral.  I'd like that least as it kinda splits the difference, making 2/2 more inevitable for the decade, unless a gazillion Democrats feel compelled to move to Pahrump.

[ Parent ]
Unless you're interested in a job...
In mining or in a brothel, there really isn't much available in places like Pahrump and Elko.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Senator Reid may have something to say about that!


[ Parent ]
He did.
And folks here are still arguing over it. And I keep slapping myself in the face, wondering why it had to happen. Our state has so many challenges to tackle, yet we waste time arguing over brothels in the cow counties??!!

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
It's simple. Let me explain.
Harry Reid just says what's on his mind. And obviously, sometimes that gets him in trouble with certain people. That's really all that's about. He's never been a fan of the brothels, so I guess this is his last hurrah against them.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Yeah
Keeping in on topic I guess it would be counterproductive to try hurting Ensign now since Democrats would rather run against him than Heller.

[ Parent ]
Reid's comments are a political freebie, I have to think even in NV......
I realize legal prostitution has a constituency in NV after all these years, but really it's got to be an easy thing to slam even then.  The subculture is sleazy, women are exploited and abused, many people's sense of morality is offended, and there's a pretty powerful right-center-left coalition against it that easily overwhelms the right-left libertarian alliance in favor of it.

At the very least, no way does Harry pay any political price for his attack on prostitution.  Attacking that industry just doesn't offend any meaningful bloc of voters.

And now Reid, either cunningly or unwittingly, has induced Ensign into badly embarrassing himself all over again by defending prostitution--the 2nd-to-last guy in the world who should be doing so publicly, behind only Vitter.  And of course by doing so Ensign is only hurting himself with the very hard right voters he needs in the primary.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I'm to old to mine...
... and I don't think I could make much money in a brothel  so I better stay where I'm at.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
Or come here to Vegas...
We obviously have plenty more to offer. And hopefully once we realize the casinos can't be all our bread & butter forever, we'll have a healthier and more diversified economy.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
I can't imagine Las Vegas diversifying much.
Plus the added fact that water resources will begin to dwindle and the city in the desert won't be able to keep up. Unless they begin importing water from other areas. It's like Atlanta as well.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Oh, but we have to!
We don't have a choice. Either we diversify or we die. And even though many have predicted our death before, we've always managed to come back stronger. That's what's keeping my hope alive that Las Vegas will continue to evolve and eventually become a model of sustainable living in the 21st century.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
Diversification
So ... economic diversification in Nevada... what does that mean exactly? Brothels with male sex workers?

Joking!  But seriously, Vegas is never going to be sustainable. You've got over a million people and almost as many golf courses in the middle of an arid desert. But hey man, keep hope alive...

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.


[ Parent ]
Actually
I think they can build on their core competency -- helping large groups of people have fun. I suspect they could set up a bang-up alternative to Disney/Branson/Universal/Legoland etc. But that might have to wait until after the end of the Oscar Goodman era...

Taking advantage of the other local natural resource (sun/wind) would be more problematic, given the current state of the US electrical grid.


[ Parent ]
Water resources are the most problematic.


19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
End of what era?
Guess who's running for LV Mayor?

But anyway, shifting to state issues, there actually is work being done to upgrade the grid here in Nevada to take advantage of the new solar, wind, and geothermal projects happening here. We really need to build on that, and we really need a more educated workforce to bring more renewable energy and high tech companies here.

Yes, Virginia, there ARE progressives in Nevada!
24, gay male, Democrat, NV-03 (or 04?)


[ Parent ]
The recession should have tought Nevada a hard lesson...
 .... when times get tough the first thing people cut back on are the extravaganzas that Vegas was built on. You really do need some diversification.    

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
I'd work in a mine.
I applied at Hibbing Taconite, but didn't get a call back.

That being said, I wouldn't move to Nevada to work in a mine.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Fun fact:
Nevada is the only place in the nation where Lithium is mined in significant quantities.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
MO
Brutal numbers for Carnahan and Cleaver. MO-5's underage is over twice the projections from last year. Add that to the enormous losses in MO-1 and I think the new 8 rep map is more likely to be a 6-1-1 than anything else.

I'm sure Nixon's office is far more creative (and motivated) than I am, but finding a way to protect Clay & Carnahan seems mission impossible.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


MO-05 isn't going to become a swing district
Jackson County (which is about 70,000 shy of an entire district) and southern Clay County would still comprise a pretty safe Dem district. The southern parts of Clay only narrowly went for Blunt in 2010, so the district going north wouldn't hurt Dem performance much.

[ Parent ]
Why capture Jackson County?
About 1/3 of Jackson county is currently split between the 6th & 7th. I doubt either rep would balk at ditching those areas, but it isn't a open/shut case either.

Most of the GOPers on the redistricting committees are from the STL area, so who knows what they'll do...

I think Cleaver is safe for '12 b/c of the huge turnout you'll get for Obama in KC proper, but I could see him falling in '14 or later. The district would probably still lean Dem, but you'd likely see a white Jackson county/non-KC Dem eventually hold the seat. I'm not sure if that qualifies as a swing district, but you'll probably see some races through the decade that will make it appear so.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
I don't think Jay Nixon would sign a redistricting bill that weakens two of the remaining three Dem districts
and if the Republicans shove through a bill with the support of, say, a couple African-American legislators (since they're two votes shy of a 2/3rds majority in the House), those African-American legislators are not going to agree to anything that weakens Cleaver.

[ Parent ]
That's one way, and perhaps the likeliest
By my figures all of Jackson & Cass would be about right for a full district. Haven't heard what Cleaver will want...perhaps trying to grab more urban areas north of downtown KC (currently in the 6th). I stick to my prognostication that whatever the new 5th is it will not be safe for Cleaver, though it likely would be for a white, non-KC centric Dem who can appeal outside the urban KC neighborhoods.

I'm also not sure what will happen in the 1st now, are there enough AAs not currently in the 1st to get to population mins without screwing the district up w/ VRA? If they grab the rest of STL city & south STL County from the 3rd that is a ton of solid dem voters, but they are White Dem voters....I wish I could do a new map w/ DRA 2.whatever...Sadly, I can't load it on my work computer...

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
MO-05 taking in all of Cass isn't going to happen
Vicky Hartzler lives in Harrisonville, which is right in the middle of the county.

[ Parent ]
Here's a wild idea
Going outside the box...seeing as how it seems the power over redistricting will be among STL are state reps/leg...

Instead of cutting up the 3rd they instead split STL county 3 ways between Clay, Akin & Carnahan (3rd will still have to lose much of STL city so this is still likely a toss-up district).

Then the 8th & 9th extend west to eat up much of Hartzler's 7th district and she is thrown into a fair fight with Cleaver. The new 5th/7th would take in KC & western Jackson & some part of Independence, then extend S/SE through Lee Summit & Cass county.

That's potentially a 7-1 GOP map, but probably a 5-3 map after the '12 election. The 6th would probably be winnable for a good Dem in a good year.

We'll call that my good government map...plus lots of advertising dollars coming into Missouri for the (at least) 3 swing districts...

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
hmm
That sounds sort of like the "court-drawn" map I tried to draw earlier. The StL area is almost big enough for 3 districts, so MO3 had to pick up a few more rural counties in the area and MO8 (Emerson) went well into the middle of the state. Hartzler was the one who got squeezed, although I think I threw her in with Graves instead of Cleaver. MO5 was all of Jackson and the part of Cass it has now. MO3 was almost certainly a tossup district since it had to lose most of its bluest areas to MO1. It was a 5-2-1 map in an average year.

41, Ind, CA-05

[ Parent ]
The Difference
Here would be that Jackson county would remain split to make the new 5th/7th a "fair fight" district. Otherwise you're just throwing Hartzler under the bus (which a court might do, but the legislature almost certainly won't).

Interstingly, if Nixon were to (God Forbid) have a heart attack and the GOP get the trifect, I think the result would be instead of the 3rd getting split up between the 2nd, 8th & 9th that it would take South county & Jeff County West creating a lean GOP district centered on Jefferson county. In the KC area I think they'd put all of Independence and eastern Jackson county into the 6th throwing Hartzler & Cleaver into a urban/rural mix district. The result would likely be something close to my above scenario, but without keeping Cleaver & Carnahan competitive (which would not be hard). This could still be a 5-3 dummymander in a good Dem year.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
.
The Hawaii-2 numbers posted are wrong. The difference between the actual population and the ideal population needs to be 21,478 not 21,748. You switched the 7 and the 4.  

21, Conservative Gay Democrat, NM-2 (Childhood) TX-10 (Home) TX-23 (School);   DKos: wwmiv.


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