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SSP Daily Digest: 12/9

by: Crisitunity

Thu Dec 09, 2010 at 2:37 PM EST


AK-Sen: Tomorrow is now the expected date for the ruling from a state superior court judge on Joe Miller's suit contesting 8,000 ballots (over spelling) and also alleging various instances of voter fraud. There's an injunction in place that keeps the race from being certified until this case (which started in federal court and got moved) has been decided, although the judge is conceding that whatever he decides, it's likely to get immediately appealed to the Alaska Supreme Court.

News also comes today that Joe Miller wound up finishing the Alaska Senate race with over $900K still in hand, an outrageous sum given how cheap the Alaska media market is. Much of that was intended to go toward post-game legal expenses, and some of that may have been the same problem that plagued other teabagger fundraising dynamos (like Christine O'Donnell and Sharron Angle), of not being able to find any ad slots to spend the money. Also worth a read: a wrapup over at Daily Kos from the Scott McAdams campaign's media guy, especially his recounting of the adventure he went through to find the Incredible Hulk tie that appeared in McAdams' TV spot. Finally, we'll let Kagro X get the last word in on the state of the Alaska race:

Joe Miller keeps fighting on, like a 90 year old Japanese commando on a forgotten island...

FL-Sen: The Florida GOP primary is looking like it's going to be a very crowded affair after all: Adam Hasner, the former state House majority leader, has suddenly bubbled up over the last few days as a possible if not likely candidate. If the name sounds familiar, he considered and decided against a run in FL-22 this year; he's one of the few Republicans from the Gold Coast and, in addition to being a key Marco Rubio ally, could tap quickly into Jewish Republican fundraising circles.

PA-Sen: It's looking more and more like Bob Casey Jr.'s challenger is going to come not from the U.S. House but the ranks of the state Senate; the question, though, is which one? The newest name to surface is Kim Ward, who says she's starting to test the waters. She's from Westmoreland County, maybe the most conservative of the once-blue, now-swingy collar counties around Pittsburgh, giving the GOP hopes they might eat into Casey's strong backing in SW PA.

RI-Sen: Don't rule out soon-to-be-ex-Gov. Don Carcieri (who'd probably be the only Republican who could make this an interesting race here) from Senate race consideration. The 68-year-old two-termer says he isn't ruling it out, but wants to take some time off before thinking about it.

VA-Sen: George Allen is definitely acting candidate-ish now; having laid down markers against possible primary challenger Corey Stewart, now he's moving on to direct attacks on Jim Webb (who, of course, may or may not be running for re-election), over voting against the earmark ban and the horrible sin of supporting collective bargaining rights for public safety officers.

LA-Gov: Still no word on whether a strong Dem will get into the Louisiana governor's race, but The Daily Kingfish takes a very interesting look at the field of possible challengers to Bobby Jindal, whose numbers indicate he's popular but not bulletproof. They handicap the odds on a collection of possible challengers; interestingly, the guy they give the greatest odds to is ex-Dem John Kennedy (who presumably would take on Jindal while still wearing the "R" badge, although I guess anything's possible in Louisiana, where party labels seem to get taken on and off like so much laundry). They also float the possibility of a Mary Landrieu run, in that she may be eager to bail out of Washington before her next re-election in 2014.

WV-Gov: With a pileup of half a dozen Dems interested in the 2012 (or 2011?) gubernatorial race, who's running for the GOP? The Beltway rumor mill seems, this week, to have Shelly Moore Capito more interested in going for the Gov race than the Senate or staying in the House. While she'd be the undisputed heavyweight, a few other second-tier GOPers are making their interest known (although it's unclear whether they'd bother if Capito got in). Most prominent is ex-SoS Betty Ireland, one of the few GOPers around who's held statewide office, and who had briefly considered running for Senate this year. State Sen. Clark Barnes is the only Republican who has committed to the race so far.

CO-03, VA-11: Republican Keith Fimian, who came within a thousand votes of Gerry Connolly, is publicly saying he's interested in another run. He wants to wait and see what the district looks like after redistricting before committing one way or the other, though. One other rematch that may or may not be on the table is Dem John Salazar in Colorado's 3rd, who narrowly lost the reddish district to Scott Tipton and "is open" to a rematch.

House: Politico takes a quick look at the Republicans that Democrats in the House are most likely to target in 2012. I don't think any of the names (mostly surprise victors in Dem-leaning swing districts) will surprise any devoted SSP readers: in order, they discuss Chip Cravaack, Ann Marie Buerkle, the Illinois Five (especially Bobby Schilling), Blake Farenthold, Renee Ellmers, and Allen West.

Votes: The DREAM Act passed the House today (although it looks like, so many other pieces of legislation, its next stop is a slow Senate death by neglect). It's an interesting vote breakdown, with 38 Dems voting no (mostly Blue Dogs, and mostly ones on their way out the door) and 8 Republicans voting yes (almost all the non-white GOPers, along with the newly-liberated Bob Inglis). Most puzzling "no" vote may be Dan Lipinski, whose safe blue IL-03 is significantly Latino, and getting more so every day.

Census: This is a strange video to go viral, but I've been seeing lots of links to this new video from the Census Bureau today, a catchy little explanation of what reapportionment is and how it works. Also a helpful Census Bureau release today: a release schedule of all the various parts and pieces that will be necessary for the redistricting process. The big enchilada, of course, is the reapportionment breakdown, which will be released at some point before the end of the year, although they're still not specifying which date. According to today's release, state numbers on race (down to the block level) will be out in February, so I'm sure there'll be flurry of activity with Dave's Redistricting App at that point.

Crisitunity :: SSP Daily Digest: 12/9
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Dan Lipinski is like the Lynch of Illinois.
He is rather conservative for his district, but I guess he is well liked. My grandparents live in his district and like him.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

Lipinski is at the top of my list
of Democrats most worthy of a primary challenge; the others are Stephen Lynch and Mike Doyle.

[ Parent ]
I can't stand the man.
It is a good place for a progressive challenge. The district has changed considerably since his father was in that seat. He is just to far to the right. It is an area that a primary challenge would make sense.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
there was one in 2008
I cant remember how it turned out (save for the obvious) but I do remember there being more than one challenger to Lipinski.  This time to be a big no-no when trying to defeat an incumbent whose only crime is voting the wrong way.

And we also have to remember it took Donna Edwards two tries, the first to build legitimacy and the second to finish him off.

I also think Lipinski is much tougher to crack because his dad was a long-time rep. with a lot of built up loyalties.  If you want Lipinski gone, your grandparents, I would guess, are the first types of voters we need to convince.  Hell, I'd love to know what percentage of IL-3 voters even know they have a new Representative.  Or is that too cynical?


[ Parent ]
Not at all.
I only think my grandparents like him or even know who he is is because e sent my grandfather an official letter congratulating him for 30 years of safe driving for UPS. Which he framed by the way.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
No matter what you
think of his views, that's just good retail politics, especially if they had no significant relationship before hand.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
I've often
wondered how many people voted for Lincoln Chafee because they thought they were voting for his father, how many voted for Mark Warner thinking they were voting for John Warner, and how many voted for Andrew Cuomo thinking he was either his father or that pleasant man from "Good Morning America."

Anyway, if the district is that Democratic, and he's likely that tough to crack because of long-standing loyalties, perhaps he can promoted to some higher up position. Is there some sub cabinet spot he's qualified for?

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
#1 Should Be Jane Harman
Anyone who ends a conversation with "this conversation never happened" after promising to illegally interfere with a Justice Department investigation is irrevocably corrupt, in my opinion. But those other ones are good choices, too.

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, but
Running a primary challenge against someone with $400 million in personal money is a suicide mission.

[ Parent ]
GA Gerrymander
I've been working with the GA state map and I really don't see any way to put together the two D districts in Southern/Southeastern GA, If Kingston is willing to take on part or all of Savannah (which I seriously doubt) then Barrow's district could swing to the GOP, but I'm betting the legislature will have to shore up Bishop's district rather than target him despite the narrowness of Bishop's victory this year.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


VA-Sen
I'm really surprised to see Allen going after Webb already, unless they are afraid that Kaine would be a stronger candidate and are hoping to get Webb mad enough he'll run for re-election just to stop Allen from regaining his seat.

I still see Webb as a retirement, or perhaps even as Secretary of Defense (I've heard he's lobbying HARD for Gates job), since he is very unhappy with life as a Senator and after being SecNav going out as SecDef would be a nice capstone to his career.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


Unless Gates retires a year later than planned I wouldn't expect Webb to get his job
McDonnell would appoint a Republican in his place, and there's no way the White House would let that happen.  Maybe if they worked out an agreement for McDonnell to choose a Dem caretaker for the seat (Like what almost happened in New Hampshire last year with Gregg's seat) but unless that occurs there's really no way I see Webb getting the job before 2013.

21, male, CA-15 (home and voting there), LA-2 (college)



[ Parent ]
Well
the problem with that scenario is that even if McDonnell appoints a Dem caretaker, he could screw Democratic control of the state senate (assuming it remains in Dem control after next year) by appointing a Democratic state senator from a GOP friendly district.

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Webb Replacement
From what I've heard, and this is all third hand, is that this has progressed far enough that the Political Affairs office in the WH has contacted Governor McDonnell's office to "feel them out" on who they would pick. Basically they woudn't nominate Webb unless they have a firm agreement to pick a placeholder that won't run for election in '12 and would NOT appoint Webb if McDonnell intended to select George Allen (Tom Davis was the only name I heard in relation to this). Reid can live without 1 more Dem vote, but I'm not sure what the upside is for Obama with Webb, I don't think anyone on the Dem side is wondering how yet ANOTHER Republican (or former one) would run the Pentagon.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Please let this be simple rumor
One, there are better prospective defense secretaries than Sen. Webb (Undersecy. Flournoy, Gen. Odierno, Richard Danzig, Chuck Hagel, and Susan Eisenhower all come to mind, or even Secy. Clinton), and two, replacing a fairly reliable Democratic senator with a socially conservative Republican is just unacceptable.

I'd like to see President Obama stop letting himself get smacked around by the Republicans. Gov. Lynch was ready to appoint a Republican to fill Sen. Gregg's seat after he briefly accepted Obama's nomination to head the Department of Commerce, and if Obama really wants Webb at the top job in the Pentagon, he needs to negotiate for reciprocation out of the McDonnell administration.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native


[ Parent ]
If Not Webb
I put my money on Ray Mabus (currently SecNav). If that happened I'd bet on soon-to-be-former representative & HASC member Gene Taylor of Mississippi (and home to Ingalls Shipbuilding) named SecNav to replace him.  Personally I love this part since I have the utmost respect for Taylor's work on HASC and for the Navy.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
"let this be simple humor" is fucking right


[ Parent ]
Out of that list,
which seems pretty damn good, who would you have as the odds on favorite? I'd say Michelle Flournoy. She's certainly qualified, from what I can tell, and I imagine Obama would like to be the one responsible for appointing the first female Sec. of Defense. As far as Susan Eisenhower, why is she on that list? I really don't know a lot about her, except that she's endorsed Obama and Kerry, I think, and that she's written books on foreign policy/defense. Is she someone people talk about a lot when it comes to this?

On a purely partisan note, I'd like to see a Democrat, or at least someone who isn't affiliated with the Republicans. Gates seems to be doing a fine job, but we've had Republicans at Defense for, what, 20 years now? Call me crazy, but I don't think the image of Democrats being weak on defense, as stupid as it is, is helped by that.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
Would the WH
even stop to think about the VA state senate? I doubt it, even if the GOP controlled all of VA redistricting they can't do much damage beyond weakening Connolly, which they likely will do to some degree anyway since the VA Senate Dems are going to be fightening for their own districts and likely won't go all out to help protect a sophmore minority representative.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
I could see him
Appointing Shelia Johnson as a placeholder.  

[ Parent ]
Doubt it
How many times has a Governor ever selected a Senator from the opposite party to fill out a Senate term? I haven't heard any rumor of such a negotiation, that would be a HUGE ask for the WH from a GOP governor they have no real relationship with. More likely the conversation (if it's really happened at all), centered on getting a moderate republican who would not run again to Kaine could have a clear shot and Allen would not get a leg up.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Well, either Webb or Kaine will run for Senate.
That's my prediction.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I agree
and I think it far more likely we'll see Kaine than Webb, regardless of what happens with Gates' job. My only thought is maybe Allen's people see Kaine as more of a threat and thus by attacking Webb they might keep him "in" (and thus Kaine out), but his heart still really won't be in it.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Johnson had a falling out with McDonnell after the Confederate History Month debacle
She's done with politics.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, I read that on Bluevirginia some time ago.
She felt betrayed.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I'm surprised he would be unhappy with Senate life
Since he, as a Virginian, avoids the worst part, which is the constant travel back and forth.

[ Parent ]
I think
he believes a senator lack real "power" in the executive model, he ran primarily because he was angry at Bush (and be extension Allen) for the poor handling of the Iraq war. Once elected I think he was shocked by how little say he had on the policy issues that matter to him and has no interest in the other aspects of the job. He walked the party line (more or less) not because of loyalty to the party, but because of a basic lack of "caring" in the idiology or policy being debated.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Freshman Senators have little power.
If he keeps up his diligence, though, he could be Chairman of the Armed Services Committee someday.  He seems best suited for that.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
No indication
he's at all intersted in sticking around that long. It's not like the house where you can just sit on your committees and ignore everything else (Ike Skelton, Porter Goss, etc)

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
huh? That may be true in the House but each Senator has
lots of power from filibusters to holds to nominating judges to introducing legislation, etc.  

[ Parent ]
I meant compared to Senators who have been around longer.


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Not likely
Jack Reed is younger, higher in seniority, and has a safer seat.

[ Parent ]
It'd be great if Salazar ran again
He got caught napping this time after smacking Tipton around in 2006. He's very personally popular, his family has lived in the district since practically the dawn of time, and he just has an ability to connect with people. Also, from what I hear, Tipton is a weak campaigner who rode the wave more than anything else. If Salazar goes for a comeback, he has at least a 50/50 chance, assuming he doesn't take anything for granted like he did this time.


On DREAM Act...
Reps. Lipinski and Schrader are going to catch hell for voting no on that bill. Something tells me southwest Chicago and Salem are really not going to appreciate those votes.

I almost think they're fortifying themselves against redistricting, though. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the 2010 Census finds Oregon gained that extra 20,000-something people to give it a sixth district, which would almost definitely be more conservative than OR-05 and which Schrader could very well end up redistricted into (possibly along with Rep. Walden, as in a number of the six-district Oregon maps drawn by myself and others). Lipinski could end up representing redder territory too, particularly if Illinois needs to create a new Latino VRA seat in Chicagoland.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native


Another possibility
Lipinski's district becomes that second Hispanic-majority seat in Chicago, and he is either forced to face a primary against a more liberal Hispanic Dem, or try his luck against Biggert in IL-13. The other scenario for the new Hispanic district would be on the North Side and might affect Mike Quigley.  

20, CD MA-03/NH-01/MA-08

[ Parent ]
Biggert will be 75 in 2012
She'd retire.

[ Parent ]
The North Side isn't Hispanic enough.
The reason for the earmuffs we have now is that there are two distinct pockets of heavily Hispanic neighborhoods, one on the Northwest Side and one on the Lower West Side and in Cicero/Berwyn.

The population just isn't there for two Hispanic majority seats on the North Side, so to create two, you'd cleave the earmuffs in half, with the Northern half being one, taking some areas from Quigley and maybe extending into the Hispanic pockets of Addison Township in DuPage. The southern half would be the second; it'd be centered around Pilsen, Cicero, and Gage Park/McKinley Park on the Southwest Side, which conveniently eats up part of Lipinski's district. The side benefit is that it could give both the Puerto Rican and Mexican-American populations each a district, as Hispanics on the North Side tend to be of Puerto Rican descent and those on the Southwest side of Mexican descent.


[ Parent ]
ophthalmologists represent!
Terry Branstad taps Mariannette Miller-Meeks to run the Iowa Department of Public Health. Miller-Meeks was the GOP's unsuccessful candidate in IA-02 in 2008 and 2010.

2010
is officially the "Year of the Ophthalmologist."

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Lets see
Nan Hayworth, Rand Paul, MMM, who else?  

[ Parent ]
RI-Sen
Not that worried about Carcieri. His approval ratings have taken a hit since 2006 and he's way too conservative to be elected to national office (big difference between that and state office). I'd be more worried about Cranston Mayor Allan Fung or Warwick Mayor Scott Avedisian.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


Despite be so unpopular and have very low chance of win (or no-one)

the republicans many times flirt with bids.

The prominent democrats habitually are less courageous for that.


[ Parent ]
Do you think
Fung or Avedisian would have a shot at winning or would they be sacrificial lambs? I can see Avedisian being competitive, because he is from the 2nd largest city and very moderate. Plus, Chafee could probably help him alot.  

[ Parent ]
Why would Chaffee
Help them? He's not a Republican anymore, while it is against the guy who beat him I've never heard anything about bad blood between Chaffee and Whitehouse. Plus while Fung or Avesdian may not be sacrificial lambs should hy jump in he will be a prohibitive underdog.  

[ Parent ]
Chaffee and Avedesian
Are close. Avedesian was considering running for gov this year, but did not because of his friendship with Chaffee. Chaffee has also asked him to lead his transition.  

[ Parent ]
Makes it a little more likely
Emphasis on the little part though. Still a really dumb political move on both of there parts as Avesidian would probably have to do 10 points better than his state's presidential candidate. And that's going to be next to impossible to do against an incumbent who hasn't done anything particularly objectionable and appears to be a good ideological match for the state. And depending on how hard Chaffee campaigns for him it could hurt his relationships with RI Dems.

[ Parent ]
No Republican is going to win in Rhode Island
Not in a Presidential year, after they failed to get anywhere in the state in 2010.

[ Parent ]
Not so sure
Obama lost a big chunk of his popularity. He will, of course, win Rhode Island in 2012, but i doubt it will be landslide. Especially if his opponent will be more sensible Romney-type candidate..

Would this seat been open i would give Avedisian pretty good chance. But he is rather unlikely to run against so entrenched Senator as Whitehouse.


[ Parent ]
...
Obama won Rhode Island by 30 points in 2008, the only way Obama doesn't win the state by at least 20 points is if he's losing pretty damn badly elsewhere.

And outside of Lincoln Chafee running again as a Republican (which is extremely unlikely) the Republicans have no chance of winning a senate seat in a presidential election, period.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Strongly disagree. Period.))))


[ Parent ]
No, I think DGM's right
Rhode Islanders are definitely getting frustrated with how far to the right the Republican Party is moving. Many people in RI dislike the state Democratic party and want to stick it to them, so they might vote for Republicans at the state level, but that doesn't mean they're willing to vote in crazies instead (hence why the Republicans did so poorly in RI this year). And then with presidential coattails in the mix? Fung or Avedisian would merely give the GOP a chance a la Elaine Marshall or Charlie Melancon, but they wouldn't necessarily make it competitive per se.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
A chance 23 month before election day isn't "too bad"
In addition i said "if the seat was open". Well against such Democratic candidate as Caprio (which, as 2010 has shown, is quite possible) - why not? Chris Coons was heavy underdog in Delaware until Sept. 14th. Against Whitehouse - obviously, no, and i doubt any of these two will run. After all - both can wait, say, until Governor elections of 2014 or other "convenient moment"

[ Parent ]
Marshall and Melancon
probably had "a chance" in Dec 2007.

Also, Caprio is a bad analogy because of the difference I pointed out between state races and federal races.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Well, once again
Did not Rhode Island elected Chafee Sr. to Senate both in Presidential and non-presidential years? Didn't it elected Chafee Jr. in 2000 - Presidential year, when Rhode Island went rather heavily for Gore? So, under some  cirumstances everything is possible, and that's why i so hate phrases like "Period." Nothing is clear before elections are over. Not likely, especially with Whitehouse running? Of course. That's why i mostly discussed a hypothetical situation of open seat. In such case everything is possible even in Presidential year. And, frankly speaking - i am tired to read as an "argument" - "Obama won it by ... in 2008" By how much Obama won it in 2008 is almost irrelevant now

[ Parent ]
Yeah, and how much Chafee won it by in 2000 is irrelevant now too
RI may not be trending our way demographically, but I can assure you that lots of people who used to be willing to vote Republican are now frustrated with how conservative the Republican Party is.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
I agree
It's because of that that i consifder as a viable candidates only moderates - Fung and even more moderate Avedisian. Not Laffey, or even Loughlin.

[ Parent ]
But even Chafee lost in 2006
the national party hurts even moderates, especially if control of the Senate is at stake.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Yes.
And it's likely that it will be at stake in 2012 again. In such case Rhode Island will undobtely choose Democrat, even more so, because Whitehouse is a good Senator. I wanted to say only that "relatively good" Republican candidates exist even in the most Democratic states and under proper circumstances (open seat, not too bad year for party, at least - not as it was in 2006 and 08) - they can be elected even in such problematic states. That doesn't mean that they will be certainly elected and even less - that they will be elected in 2012. Most likely - neither of them will even run. But Avedisian, for example, is young enough to wait 4-6, even 8 years and who can predict - what happens then? Though he seems more interested in Governorship to me...

[ Parent ]
Caprio only won 34% of the vote, that's not at all impressive
And that was with Lincoln Chafee trying to run with Obama, this really is the same thing as saying we've got a chance in Utah with an open seat, maybe in theory if everything goes exactly right, but realistically it isn't happening.

Plus, the analogy to Delaware is ridiculous on its face, Christine O'Donnell was both a horrible candidate and a horrible match for Delaware, even if the Democrats nominate the Democratic equivalent of O'Donnell in Rhode Island (which is really unlikely) that person would still probably be favored unless running against Lincoln Chafee (which isn't happening). Chris Coons was also basically Generic D, not a horrible candidate, but not a great candidate either, Generic R can't win in Rhode Island save for really insane circumstances.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Robitaille got 34%
about the same as what McCain got. and I bet most of the Caprio voters would have gone to Chafee before Robitaille.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Stupid me, I screwed up the Republican and the Democrat, exactly what I mean, n/t


Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
*meant lol (too early for me!)


Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Even if Obama loses nationwide, Rhode Island will still be a comfortable win
Sans New Hampshire, and, if things get REALLY bad, New Jersey and Maine, I don't think any of the northeastern states will really be in play. And, NH/NJ/ME only become fuzzy if Romney's the nomineee.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

[ Parent ]
Why would Romney
really be strong in those states? I thought he was basically disliked, if not outright hated, in New Hampshire. And while he doesn't come across as poorly as Palin, he doesn't come across as good as, say, Huckabee. He's basically kind of meh, and while he used to be a moderate, he's been tacking to the right pretty damn hard. What's his appeal in New Jersey or Maine?  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
I guess
they still want to see him as the New England moderate he governed as.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I think a non-social conservative Republican can win Indies in the NE
If the GOP nominates Huckabee or Palin, Pennsylvania and New Hampshire immediately come off the table. With Romney, though he's not popular among Democrats, I think you'd see a fair share of non-affiliated moderates consider voting for him. And, in states like New Hampshire and Maine, that's a huge deal. In all fairness, of course, Romney won't be competitive in states like Connecticut or Maryland, but he might well break 40% in Massachusetts, which is something of an accomplishment for a party which hasn't done so in a presidential race since 1988.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

[ Parent ]
Romney isn't socially conservative?
I mean I get it's not his #1 thing, but I feel like in something as high-stakes as a presidential election, few stones are left unturned.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Maybe.
But those states are, except for New Hampshire, very Democratic. He's not really liked amongst the base, from what I can tell, and for every Democratic crossover vote he tries to win, I see him losing two Republican votes. I just don't see him winning anything more than a few point beyond what McCain won in a lot of these states, if for no other reason than Obama isn't the new candidate any longer. He might not be reviled amongst the Republican base, but I don't think he's loved, so he has to work to appeal to them, which costs him votes outside of the base.

Basically, I just don't see Romney getting anything more than the anti-Obama vote. And you can ask John Kerry how far the anti-Bush vote got him.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
This year, Republicans had a chance to win an open House seat against a flawed candidate
and they lost it. They didn't win any of the statewide races. They won a handful of state legislative races. If this is how they run in the best Republican year in a generation, they're not going to do any better in a Presidential year; regardless of Obama's popularity, turnout will be up, which can only help the Democrats.

[ Parent ]
Probably
But many considered exactly that Democratic candidate greeat, not flawed (especially - prople from GLBT community)... And Loughlin was substantially more conservative then the above mentioned Avedisian and Fung. And still - got about 45%. Not victory, but not so bad..

In Governor race Robitaille was considered "distant third", but finished "close second" not so far behind Chafee, who, surely, still got at least some Republican vote. In addition - rather unknown Republican candidate almost beat incumbent Secretary of State Ralph Mollis. So, while Democratic party is, surely, dominant in Rhode Island - "good" Republicans can win here. Being Democratic state didn't prevented Rhode Islanders in the past from voting for Schneider, Mahtley, Almond (and even Carcieri in good Democratic year 2006) - so, it's possible. Not very likely - yes. But if Rhode Island Democrates will nominate their own "Martha Coakley" (as they did with Myrth York in the past) - why not?


[ Parent ]
Not sure to whom you're referring.
Cicilline was a "great candidate" in that he had a high profile and was a good fundraiser, yes. But he also had lots of baggage (poor relations with labor, December 2007 snowstorm debacle, plan to tax college students from out of state, etc). If anything, he fit the profile of the type of politician who would be at a disadvantage in a year like 2010.

The fact that Catherine Taylor couldn't beat A. Ralph Mollis, another politician with some baggage, speaks to how RI is trending. Remember, RI Republicans are theoretically supposed to be able to win statewide races--it's federal races where they get blown out. The Republicans couldn't even win statewide races in a great year for them with the D vote in the governor's race split.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
But nobody knew Taylor
and Mollis was an incumbent Democratic statewide officeholder n Democratic state...

I meant those people:

http://www.rifuture.org/

They were big fans and supporters of Cicilline..


[ Parent ]
I spend most of my time away from RI so I can't say for sure
but I think Taylor got her name out in the closing days. My mom, normally a Democratic lock (she voted against Carcieri twice), heard good things about Taylor from friends and actually ended up voting for her. I figured she was just an exception, but it turns out my precinct, which normally votes around 80% for Democrats or so, actually voted for Taylor by double digits.

Also, I don't fully understand the reasons myself, but Mollis is a lot less popular than you think. And he was most certainly the insider candidate in an anti-insider year.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Thanks for interesting info)))


[ Parent ]
They'd be the GOP's best shot, but that's not saying much
Fung is from a large city too (Cranston is either 3rd or 4th, I always mix its population up with Pawtucket) and has a moderate profile, although who knows how moderate he actually is. Nevertheless, even with those two being the best candidates, this is still at least Likely D because...

*Presidential coattails
*Incumbent (not particularly popular, but not particularly controversial)
*Having booted Lincoln Chafee in the name of a Democratic majority, RIers won't be crazy to vote Republican if they think it means a chance at a Republican takeover of the Senate.

IMO Fung and Avedisian are best off waiting for 2018 or hoping for an (unlikely) Reed retirement in 2014.

(Disclaimer: I interned for Whitehouse a few summers ago)

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
I actually think Mayor Avedisian...
Might run for governor if Gov.-elect Chafee doesn't seek a second term, or might succeed Lt. Gov. Roberts under Chafee.

I doubt he or Fung would survive a primary against Robitaille, though, especially for Senate.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native


[ Parent ]
The Lt. Gov
He said he won't run against her because of his personal relationship with her, so she'd have to retire.  

[ Parent ]
Who?
Angelle or Dardenne?

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Oh yeah, Dardenne
Yeah, but I don't know if she'll retire.  Her popularity has improved.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Question about Kargo X
Isn't he a front-pager on Kos under a different name?  

He's their "Today in Congress" guy
aka David Waldman

[ Parent ]
RE DREAM Act
Lipinski and Visclosky need to go. There is always so much griping about southern blue dogs but you got dicks like these two from safe districts that vote against us all the time. Seriously Lipinski voted against HCR, Visclosky against this, cap and trade, financial regulation (from the right), and a lot of other stuff. Heck I saw a lot of southern blue dogs on the yea column, albeit leaving ones. We should put all the energy we can into getting these two out. Plus Visclosky is corrupt, though he'd probably be replaced with someone else corrupt, the area is rough but at least get someone who'd vote with us reliably. It would be hard to knock Visclosky out, he's a machine and no one wants to cross him. But still us progressives should still try to get these two out. Who are some strong challengers for Lipinski?  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

You forgot Rep. Lynch
Also extremely unhelpful.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
Why is he a subject of ire?
He voted against the health care bill, but what else has he done?

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
That's enough.


Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]
Well, for me it was
him voting for the first version of the bill and when it was game time to actually pass the damn thing he switched to "no".

[ Parent ]
Oh yes, the same reason why
Arcuri was detested.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
True


Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]
Can I see any proposed
congressional maps for IL after a Democratic gerrymander (the first time they've had the trifecta since the 60's, I believe).  I hope that it's easy to turn all of the swing districts into Dem districts.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


And to IL Dems
Congratualtions on achieving the trifecta in a bad year despite everything else.



Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
More party switches in GA- this time 2 Af. Am Dems
http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia_e...
How many party switches will we see in GA? Seriously, is this like the 30th since election day?
Hall County Commissioner Ashley Bell and Andre Walker. Seems pretty big news since they are both African American.  

does georgia even have a democratic party any more?
n/t

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

[ Parent ]
Yes, but like
the TX Democratic Party, they need to ramp up their game big time and expand out of the cities and AA communities where they are isolated.  Obama lost by a 5.2% margin without contesting it.  If the 2012 GOP candidate is crummy, he could win it and give new life to the party there.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
he didn't contest georgia?
from what i remember, he campaigned rather heavily until summer, when he left the state and then returned in the fall after his $150 million month.  it certainly wasn't uncontested.

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

[ Parent ]
Memory screw-up ><
Sorry about that.  But yes, if the GOP nominates a crummy candidate in 2012, he ought to fully contest every state on the Atlantic coast that are either swing or red.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
since we're talking about the south
what about SC?  granted dems lost a house seat and there was greene (or should i say future president greene) but shaheen did surprisingly well.  kind of makes you wonder if the 12%+ unemployment could help dems.

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

[ Parent ]
Sure they should.
Depending on what the census says, they may have to make their new seat a Charleston VRA seat.  Sheheen should also stay active.  He could run for Senate or Gov in 2014 depending on which one he has a better chance in.  His getting 47% in a bad year for Dems and an even worse Senate candidate was heartening.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
It's hard to
get a handle on exactly what they were trying to do there. The Obama campaign wasn't interested in having stories about it pulling out of states start popping up, so it never really gave a straight answer, as far as I could tell. I remember reading an article in The New York Times where, after several quotes from campaign higher ups, I couldn't figure out what the hell was going on. While it was obvious they were investing some money there or had done so during the primaries, they weren't contesting it like they were Ohio or Virginia. Who knows what they will do next time.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
If he's not fighting for his life
in 2012, I want to see him place a considerable emphasis on party building. There's little chance he'll win a state like Kansas unless he's cruising to victory in an Johnson/Reagan-style landslide, but there's no reason not to try to register new voters and get them elected at the state and local level. That's where a lot of new and promising candidates can come from. And if he does it in a state like Georgia or Texas, I'd say he has a decent shot of winning, or at least getting very, very close. In some of these states, I'd say he's likely to see positive returns if only because nobody has really been contesting them in decades, unlike, say, Ohio.


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Right now
Sanford Bishop's performance this year is symbolic of the Dem party there.  Declared dead more than once, but still hanging on.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
To be half-dead is not much better
then to be completely dead. It's simply matter of time. Whites in South Georgia stopped to vote for Democratic candidates (except, may be, some local) just as their brothers in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi did recently. So, if not propped by redistricting - he will lose. Despite very moderate voting record.

[ Parent ]
He survived this year


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Barely
Who knows what will be in 2012. The tendencies in the South (especially - rural areas) are unmistakable

[ Parent ]
If he survived 2010.....
He'll survive 2012, especially with the heat off of the Dems.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
IF the heat will be off, which i doubt very much


[ Parent ]
With
Dems in the minority, now the onus is on the GOP to govern.  The Dems have hit their floor.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
No. Democrats still have Presidency and Senate
So, Republicans have, essentialy, 2 targets to exploit. Democrats - only one..

[ Parent ]
Bishop's close call
A lot of it was self-inflicted. He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar steering scholarships to family members, and that got him a huge amount of bad press in the district. My guess would be that incident knocked a few points off his total, and that he would have won with 54-55% without it.

[ Parent ]
That's better
But his district is not so black as some in Atlanta area, and (sorry for repeat) with whites voting overwhelmingly Republican here he will always be relatively endangered

[ Parent ]
No he won't, not when black turnout is higher as it will be in 2012......
What was black turnout in Bishop's district this time?  It definitely was lower than 2008, but was it also lower than a typical midterm?  

The district demographics are 49% white, 47% black.  Given that black voters put Bishop in the mid-40s right up front in vote share, hardly any white voters are necessary to get him over 50.

This was the only close election Bishop has ever had.  And his seat is VRA.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Is there
information available about turnout in his district? In the state as a whole, the exit polling from CNN tells me black turnout was 16 percent in 2006 and 30 percent in 2008. It doesn't necessarily have to be worse than 2006 for it affect him greatly, unless the turnout in his district was drastically different than in other districts.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Those 2006 numbers are suspect, to say the least
No way was the black vote anything less than 25%, even with statewide races being relatively uncompetitive.  

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Good point.
I can't believe I let that slip by me.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
47% black means
that about 43% of voters are black even in best situation (Presidential year). Let's suppose that they ALL vote for Bishop. To get 50 he needs 7 out of 57% whites, that's 12.5% So far he was able to get neccessery white vote, but with South Georgia  rapidly polarizing as Alabama or Mississippi - it's not clear how long that will be the case. And in non-Presidential year, probably no more then 40% (may be even slightly less) of voters in his district are black. That means he will nedd about 17-18% of white vote in such situation, and that becomes increasingly difficult...

[ Parent ]
Getting white vote in the teens is easy......
Obama's worst performance with white voters was in the mid-teens in Mississippi.

There's just no place in American where white voters are as one-sidedly Republican as black voters almost everywhere are Democratic.  You get close in Mississippi in a Presidential election, but still there the white vote is about 10 points less partisan than the black vote.

Again, 2010 was as close as Bishop could get to losing the seat, and he still got 51%.  This was worst-case scenario, he normally does much better.

And dude, Bishop won 67-33 in 2004 and was left unopposed in 2002, both strong Republican years nationally and in Georgia.

You can't argue Bishop is likely to have close elections going forward when that hasn't happened before.  Nothing is changing with white voters in Georgia, they're voting the same as they have since 1994.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Obama got 10% of the white vote in Alabama to McCain's 88%
Of course, he got 98% of the black vote. And that was before the Tea Party--we could see the GOP nominee break 90% of whites in Alabama in 2012, especially if it's a southerner. The reason that the South has gotten so red is that whites are starting to approach blacks in terms of their unity in partisan voting (they probably aren't anywhere close to voting 98% Republican though.)

20, CD MA-03/NH-01/MA-08

[ Parent ]
Thanks, I missed that, I thought MS was the bottom......
And I was wrong on MS, too, as it was actually 11% for Obama there.  It was Kerry who got 14% there.  And Kerry got 19% in Alabama, compared to Obama's 10%.

The racial hostility in the South endures.  Obama clearly was no more liberal than Kerry, and partisan sentiment everywhere clearly was better for Democrats in 2008 than 2004, and yet Obama underperformed with white voters across the South and Appalachia.  There were some exceptions, like Georgia where Obama lost by the identical 76-23 margin as Kerry.  But in most of these states a black President was too much for whites to stomach.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Sorry, but i will..
MassGOP below corrected your numbers - that's one. And Bishop's district is not located in liberal Atlanta's area and does't contains some liberal college cities like Athens. It's predominantly rural SW Georgia, with political tradition and voting preferences almost undistinguishable from neighbouring Alabama (where Obama got 10% in 2008). Obama could be popular among well-educated professor-type whites, but not among those rural whites, who compose majority (bare) of 2nd district populatuion. So - Bishop will have close elections if his district will remain the same, and he will not be able to get 25-30% of white vote as he did in the past. And i will not be surprised if Obama himself will get low teens in this district (and, say, 7-8% in Alabama) in 2012... After Obama's election rural South vote became extremely polarized - with white's Republican percentage approaching black Democratics. So, while in long-term perspective that may be not bad for Democrats because of demographic changes, in short- and middle-term - situation is rather bleak for them here.

[ Parent ]
Obama got 23% in Georgia, and Bishop will be plenty safe going forward if...
...his district has a nonwhite vote in the same ballpark in its racial composition as now.

You're speculating a lot, based on nothing at all.  There's no evidence that Obama's white support in the Deep South is any worse than it was in 2008.  He tanked there then, and in places like Bishop's district Obama did extremely poorly.  Obama's white support came from Atlanta proper, and to a lesser extent a few of the less conservative suburbs.

Wave elections are just wave elections, nothing more, they're not the start of a pattern unless you can point to other evidence establishing one.

If all you have is naked speculation, you don't really have anything.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I assume you mean Obama did poorly among white voters in Bishop's district
Because he did win the district in 2008 (54-46). It's also worth mentioning that Kerry only barely lost it in 2004 and Gore won it in 2000.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Excuse me for being rude, but you are fool
First of all - i spoke about Bishop's district only. He (Obama)didn't get 23% in Bishop's district, which is much more like neighbouring Alabama then like Atlanta. That's first.

Second - Obama lost a lot of his former popularity since peak in fall of 2008, so it's obvious for me that both he and Democratic party as a whole will do worse among rural Southern whites then in 2008. That's two.
Obama won Virginia in 2008, but that didn't prevented Democrats from losing almost everything possible in 2009 and 2010. Stop speculating with that damned Obama's percentages as a basis of your speculation!

And, finally, as i said - if you don't want to listen to other's arguments and indulge in maecalling - you will get the same treatment in response. I am intersting in discussions with clever people, not those like you. That's simple waste of time.  


[ Parent ]
If the white vote in this part of Georgia is really closer to Alabama, then Bishop has already reached the very worst he could possibly get
You're the one speculating about how vulnerable Bishop is based only on 2010 (never mind that as DCCyclone has already noted, Bishop has generally run without any real problems).

I doubt Bishop ever has as close a call as he had this year (especially given that Republicans can't make Bishop's district worse because it's a VRA district, in fact, they might just play around with the southern districts a bit to strengthen Bishop while screwing over Barrow).

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
Yes, to think about what will happen in 2-4 years
is a speculation, here i admit it. But there are many ways to make district barely accteptable to VRA restrictions and still very competitive. May be not in 2012 with bigger turnout, but in 2014 - sure. There is one axiom here for me: rural Southern whites are less and less willing to vote Democratic with every year (percentages here begin to approach black percentages for Democrats), so what was barely enough in 2010 may be not enough in 2014. In addition - Bishop isn't eesentially liberal, so, if i would be Republican i would try to get him to switch in exchange for very good commitee assignment. It's not as unthinkable, as it seems at first look - there are very recent examples of Black elected officials in Georgia switching.

[ Parent ]
State politics are very different from national ones
Bishop would never survive a Republican primary and he knows it (he'd just have to look at Parker Griffith for a lesson).

And why should we believe that 2014 would be a worse year for Georgia Democrats than 2010, which is pretty damn unbelievable (IMHO). Yes, yes anything can happen, but there's more evidence that Bishop will be fine come 2012-2014 based on his performance in 2004 and 2006.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
My usual answer - we shall see
2010 has clearly shown that he is vulnerable in proper year. Not doomed of course, but still vulnerable.

[ Parent ]
The 7th and 8th
And from what I've read, this one is based on opportunism and little more.  They just feel that they could get more done as GOP in Georgia.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Like that
Alario guy in LA.  He switched not because he's some dixiecrat greatly disaffected with the party.  He switched so he could have a shot at winning more influence.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
says a lot about them as people imo


[ Parent ]
Yes, but he is, surely, no liberal either.
He loves pork, but who don't???

[ Parent ]
Opportunists
Doesn't seem as if many Southern Democrats are willing to stand on principle anymore.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.

[ Parent ]
Whenever a party takes a big hit
Defectors will follow in hope that they can accomplish more by joining their opposition.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
and they're generally Southern Dems
But I wont knock the ones who are conservative and switch as the whole thing is simply the great re-alignment from the 20th century finally finishing itself out.

(hey, do I need I copyright the "Great Re-Alignment"?)


[ Parent ]
does that ever work?
Do the Republicans really say hey, welcome to the party, now we want to look after your constituents? I've never understood that part of the equation.

[ Parent ]
It's about offering juice.
This is especially the case with State Legislatures.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
This Makes No Sense To Me
It's one thing for a party to welcome defectors when they are institutionally weak like the Republicans used to be in most southern states. Most of these areas now have Republican candidates available who've been loyal to the party most of their lives, on the strength of loyal Republican voters - which was very much not the case in the 1970s or even the 1990s.

I don't see how these party-switchers don't all get ousted in GOP primaries like Parker Griffith did.


36, M, Democrat, MD-03


[ Parent ]
It didn't happen when Dems won big...
Only Arlen Specter switched... although, there were a few statehouse switches in our favor if I remember correctly.

[ Parent ]
Conversely
No Dem Senator or Dem Congressman has defected.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
After this election


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Well, Specter didn't switch until spring 2009


21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
The circumstances
He could not win a GOP primary.  That's why he switched.  I don't see that happening on the Dem side.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
True...
Thanks to our friend Parker Griffeth. :-)  He showed that switching didn't pay.

[ Parent ]
Which principle???
They are mostly conservatives. Many of them fit as a glove into present day Republican party without any need to change their voting record even a bit.

[ Parent ]
Why not switch before?
Most of these would have never considered switching when Democrats controlled almost everything in southern states. Switching parties to be in the majority doesn't stand for a lot, it's opportunistic. In the case of the Georgia State Rep. who recently switched, he was from Athens, which is quite Democratic. That was quite the unprincipled switch.

24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.

[ Parent ]
That one - yes.
Simple powergrab. But many other  were absolutely sensible. Conservative white southern Democrats hekd on a state and local level as long as they could. Bit they really have very little (if any) common with "Obama-Pelosi-Frank party". So these Democrats are sincere when they say "the party left me" - they themselves changed little since their youth, but their party changed a lot. Now nothing but the past holds them in party - even (as you correctly mentioned) career perspectives. That changed too. Ultraconservative Woody Jenkins was a Democratic state Representative in Louisiana for 24 years. Why? It was all but impossible to make political career in Louisiana as Democrat then - everyone> including KKK leaders, was a Democrat. Now it changed, so why must they remain in a party which they don't have neither ideokogical allegiance with nor - good career ahead?

[ Parent ]
As Republican. Sorry for this and other typos)))


[ Parent ]
Well, probably less then will be in Louisiana
next year or 2. As i said - i easily see 10-12 state legislators (and, probably, much more local officials) switching there. May be - not all will do the plunge, but theoretically - no problems. There is also a possibility of massive switch in Mississippi. Right now a coalition of 14 relatively conservative Democratic House members there tries (as it was after 2007 elections) wrestle control of the Speakership from "more moderate" Democrats with Republican help. If unsuccessful - the whole group may switch. Even if successfull - this group can merge into Republican party with time going on.

The Democratic party in the South is Blacks (most of them)  plus some liberal (Universities and so on) enclaves. Nothing more...


[ Parent ]
That might not be
enough for now, but in a short period of time, it's likely to be enough to make the states purple, if not outright blue. This might not happen in Alabama or Mississippi, but in the biggest states, like Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia, it is happening, and it's going to turn the Electoral College map decisively in the Democrats' favor. What effect this will have on a state elections is unclear, but it's probably not bad.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Well,
In Texas - in next 15 years. The same - in Georgia. North Carolina and Virginia are at least somewhat purplish even now, but i don't expect them "turning really blue" earlier then 10 years from now. That's big chunk of time for me - i am 53. And so - i prefer to live not by what will happen 15-20 years from now, but at most - 3-5 years...

[ Parent ]
For people working on party building
It's important to have some idea about what's going to happen, what are the current trends, etc. for the next 10-20 years.

Party building in such states, by its very nature, is a long term project. In many cases, it doesn't pay dividends for multiple cycles.

However, party building in states where demograpics are on our side have a multiplier effect -- not only from the increases from groups that favor us, but also from the elections that finally turn -- not only from R to D, but also from moderate D to more progressive D.

So while I'm closer to your age then most active users here, I'll almost certainly still be working in 20 years, and hope to enjoy my country as Democratic ideals take stronger hold at that time.


[ Parent ]
a lot of people
seem to blur the distinction between being a reliably blue state, like Maryland or New York, and a possibly blue state, like Ohio or Florida, also known as swing states. The states you mentioned night turn blue, or they might end up being up for grabs each time, like most states in the Midwest are now. The former is obviously more significant for the Democrats, all but ensuring their chances, but the latter is still a big shift in their direction, too. It'll be as if they are consistently on the offense, as opposed to usually being on the defense.

Now, I've actually spoken with an ABD poli sci friend of mine who basically thinks campaigns aren't a huge factor and that the fundamentals determine pretty much everything. As he likes to say, the Democrats would have won in 2008 even if he had been the nominee. I agree that the fundamentals are key, but at the same time, I don't think they explain everything. I'm not sure, in other words, Virginia would have turned blue if Obama hadn't put in the time and resources there.

Why is this important? Well, some of those states might end up in a position where the Democrat simply has to be a breathing non-criminal to get their Electoral votes, as is the case in a state like New York. But if I had to guess, I'd say we'll have to put the work in to win, that things won't just happen unless it's a landslide. If we really can make a difference by registering voters and actively campaigning, then perhaps the process of turning these states blue can be sped up. Things will have to be turning in our favor, of course, but if we can truly make a difference at the margins, then a state like Texas or Georgia might end up blue a lot sooner than you think.


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
I always have one answer for that type of posts:
We shall see)))

[ Parent ]
Well, of course.
At this point, I am just speculating.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Louisiana
There have been rumors since before the election of massive party switches. so far, we've only gotten 3, 4 if you count before the election, when (now former) Lt. Gov Scott Angelle switched.

[ Parent ]
If they are leaving
the part because they feel it's too liberal, aren't they more like Allen Boyd in Florida? And if so, isn't it nothing to really worry about?  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
My turn to report a party defection.
CO GOP big-time fundraiser, political candidate, Fox news regular, and founder of "Muslims for Bush", Muhammad Ali Hasan, has defected to the Democrats.

http://coloradoindependent.com...

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


I heard on HuffPost
way back when people were going crazy about the Lower Manhattan Islamic Center, Hasan was voicing his great discontent with most of the GOP for either offering no support to completely buying into the hysteria.  Didn't think he'd actually leave though.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Wow
I remember Hasan from back in 2004. He caught a lot of flak for carrying the water for the Bush campaign.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
I don't know
if there's been any longer-term defection, but one of the sort of amusing turn of events from all of the hoopla over foreign policy in the Middle East has been an erosion of support for the Republicans amongst Muslims. They aren't that big of a group in this country, but they aren't getting any smaller.

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
This might be my favorite line that I've read this past year:
"I have three top political heroes: Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush and now Nancy Pelosi. She has such a spine, like Reagan and Bush, they all have that in common: a spine of steel that comes from conviction."

Anyway, I have to say, I don't know if Pelosi really pays attention to what other say about her, but I really, really like the fact that she embraced this man and his intentions. There are surely political motives behind it that will benefit her party years from now, but at the same time, she doesn't need to invite any more criticism from the other side. This might do it, but I doubt she cares. My opinion of her and of Reid continues to grow.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
HI-Sen: Lingle seriously considering a run?
I can see it
If Akaka dies or cannot/does not run again, Lingle would be a coin-flip for this seat. Against Akaka she gets crushed, but a bed on a nearly 90 year-old man is far from a safe one.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
I've said it before, Lingle left with underwater approvals and Obama's going to be on the ticket
Even if Hawaii has an open seat, I'm not worried about holding onto it.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
God love Bernie Sanders!
He has been speaking 5 hours straight against the tax cut agreement, occasionally handing the floor to Sherrod Brown and Landrieu.

http://www.c-span.org/Watch/C-...


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


I
was surprised Mary Landrieu came out so strongly against the tax cut compromise. She even called it a scam or something along those lines. This might be a tea leaf she's seriously considering retiring in 2014, or perhaps she strongly believes this is a bad deal. (LordMike no need for you to reply to this, just stating my observations.)

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Its been surprising
For us too. She is really sounding like one of the top progressive voices now. I wonder if she has decided to retire and figured fuck it.  

[ Parent ]
Maybe she
gasps actually wants to reduce the deficit.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
A
fiscally conservative Senator who actually thinks logically about it.  Imagine that.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Voinovich
is also strongly opposed to extending the Bush tax cuts.  He knows that it would explode the deficit.  You don't reduce taxes when you're involved in major overseas military campaigns.  You just don't.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
She's a hypocrite, she voted FOR the Bush tax cuts the FIRST time!......
She sounds good until you look at her record.  She voted for those tax cuts when there was no recession, before 9/11, and it was nothing more than a right-wing ideological play.

So she doesn't have any moral authority in my book to complain now, when the argument for keeping the Bush rates (which for the record I oppose), is actually stronger than it was back when she voted for it.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I was far more ambiguous on the tax cuts in 2001
when we had a surplus, although I believed that money could've gone for better use.

I can see supporting them then and not now.  


[ Parent ]
If you want to take the cynical view
Which I don't completely dismiss, this is a perfect political position for her. She gets brownie points from liberals for opposing this but it gives her another issue from which she can distance herself from Obama. It really doesn't matter that on this particular issue she ran to his left when she makes those 2014 ads its another issue for which she can up her "I'm a independent voice" bonafides.

[ Parent ]
During his running rant against offshoring
He made a reference to Carly Fiorina saying "There is no job in America that is America's god-given right anymore."

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Christine O'Donnell: Sucker extraordinaire?
She paid $100K to produce the "I'm Not a Witch" ad.  Also, I'm still baffled how nobody on her team or with the media group did not say this ad was a bad idea in the first place.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpoi...

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


What?
It was a great idea! She effectively counteracted the witch thing and let Delaware voters know that "I'm you." She would have won if 57% of Delaware voters didn't hate themselves.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]

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