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SSP Daily Digest: 11/5

by: Crisitunity

Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 3:36 PM EDT


WV-Gov: I've complained at length before about the sheer haziness of West Virginia's succession laws, and they aren't going to get any clearer: Joe Manchin, as one of his final acts as Governor, isn't going to call a special session to clarify. The law is clear that Senate President Earl Ray Tomblin becomes Acting Governor upon Manchin's resignation (which will probably happen as soon as the election results are certified, as Manchin is able and ready to serve in the lame duck session in place of temp Carte Goodwin), but all it says is that a special election must be held to fill the vacancy, without saying, y'know, when. Legislative counsel have made the best guess that two elections should happen in Nov. 2012 (one special election for the remaining two months of the term, the other regularly scheduled one for the following four years), but that doesn't have the force of law yet.

AZ-07: This was one where victory was pretty clear yesterday, but today it's officially been called for Raul Grijalva. He's up more than 6,000 now, as friendly Pima County precincts have kept reporting.

AZ-08: Looking right next door, things are also looking up for Gabby Giffords. She's up by about 3,000 votes. 30,000 votes remain to be processed in Pima County, although it's unclear how many of those are in the 7th or in the 8th. The local paper says it's expected the race will be called in her favor today.

CA-11: J-Mac looks to be coming back, if today's news is any indication. Jerry McNerney's lead over David Harmer has edged up to 568 votes (although potentially that could erode a bit in today's further counting as there are still some San Joaquin Co. votes outstanding). California doesn't have an automatic recount provision, but Harmer seems to already be laying groundwork: he's filed a suit in Contra Costa County saying his team should be able to stop the vote-by-mail signature-verification process in order to challenge signatures.

KY-06: Ben Chandler is declaring victory, despite Andy Barr's plans to pursue a recanvass. The final count is Chandler up by 649, although that's not SoS-certified yet, and the recanvass may change that (although probably not to the extent that Barr could win).

NV-St. Sen.: 84-year-old long-timer Bill Raggio won't be the Republican leader in the Nevada state Senate for the first time in ages. He pulled his name from consideration for another stint as minority leader after it was clear that he wasn't going to win the internal struggle against Mike McGinness. Raggio's sin? Endorsing Harry Reid over Sharron Angle (who, you might remember, ran and lost to Raggio in a 2008 GOP primary battle in his Reno-area seat).

Leadership: The big news on Capitol Hill today, of course, is that Nancy Pelosi has made clear that she will seek to become minority leader. One more indication how quickly the daily CW (which had a quick transition to Steny Hoyer penciled in yesterday) can change on a dime. Hoyer is likely to stay in place, so Pelosi will probably only face a minor challenge from Heath Shuler. Only a few other surviving conservadems are publicly opposing Pelosi so far (no surprises: Altmire, Boren, Matheson). Chris Van Hollen, unsurprisingly, is also out as DCCC chair... although it's hard to tell how much his star has dimmed for future leadership endeavors, as a third term at the DCCC would have been unlikely even if the Dems had salvaged a majority. (There's plenty of other discussion on this topic, including the GOP leadership ladder and committee chairs, underway over in MassGOP's diary.) UPDATE: Here's some last-minute tension: Dems are less one leadership slot, having to drop down to the minority, and it looks like that's going to be resolved with a battle for minority whip between Steny Hoyer and Jim Clyburn. That could produce some fireworks.

Polltopia: Nate Silver went there: his newest post is called "Rasmussen Polls Were Biased and Inaccurate." His graph of major pollsters' performance finds Rasmussen both off by the widest average margin, and with the most greatest amount of bias in a particular direction (the Republican direction, natch). (Quinnipiac had the smallest average error, and PPP was the closest to having no bias. He also has kind words for SurveyUSA and YouGov.) PPP's Tom Jensen also has some interesting divining from Tuesday's entrails: if you were wondering whether the dropoff was from Obama voters staying home, or Obama voters voting for Republicans this time around, he finds it was almost exactly half-and-half of each.

Crisitunity :: SSP Daily Digest: 11/5
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I hope she doesn't win.
She is too good of a target for Republicans to try and tie Democrats to. It would be good to get her out of such a high profile position.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Dollars to donuts
she wouldn't have announced if she didn't have the votes.

In lieu of an alternative who can do a better job of leading the opposition, I am in support of Pelosi remaining.  


[ Parent ]
Alternatives?
Other than Hoyer, who Pelosi has pinned against a way, there are several good candidates.

Debbie Wasserman Shultz
Chris Van Hollan
Steve Israel
Jim Clyburn
Anthony Weiner
Chaka Fattah (my personal darkhorse favorite)

You're telling me that these people wouldn't have the ability that Pelosi does? Please.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Chaka Fattah is my Congressman,
but he has never, to my knowledge, expressed an interest in leading the Dem caucus.

Your other options are conceivable, but only Clyburn and Van Hollen are in senior leadership. Clyburn strikes me as a poor choice for reasons probably not worth rehashing. Van Hollen would be my pick above the rest, but it sounds like he isn't interested.

Otherwise, Pelosi knows this job and its contours, and she's ready to fight. Dare I say she's "tested and ready"? ;-)


[ Parent ]
Chaka
I'd love it if she ran only because you know there would be tons of remixes of that Chaka Kahn song "I Feel For You" made about it.  You know, the one that begins Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-Chaka Kahn! Chaka Kahn!

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
Khan/Fattah
Khan's a woman, Fattah is not.

[ Parent ]
Ah
I think I knew that at one point, but forgot it.  Makes sense as the original Chaka was a dude.  But I still don't think that would stop people from doing remixes.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
Debbie Wasserman-Shultz!
Democrats should stick with strong female leaders.  

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Sexist
I couldn't care less if she was female. She is a solid congressperson with a strong record of fund raising, and she has the youth and energy to jazz up support. I don't buy into (and am actually offended by) the notion that we should pick any kind of leader based on gender.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Has Tony Sertich announced
he's running for congress yet?

[ Parent ]
Not publicly
I am not AS in tune with insider information as I was a year ago, as I am no longer a staffer. But I would be astonished if he didn't announce by the end of the legislative session. He still needs to win the election of minority leader, so he can't think TOO far ahead. Plus, it would be advantageous to give Cravaack enough rope to hang himself with. No one knows who he is, so let him slip up and show how out of sync he is with the 8th district. No sense in preempting that and giving him a target.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Not to start anything
but I am the last person you should be equating with sexism. I'm very offended by that. As a man and feminist might I ad. There are not enough women in power and were we are heading is a step backward for woman. Debbie Wasserman Shultz would make a great leader for our party, but I digress.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
voting for or against someone
based at all on their gender is the definition of sexism. Your heart is in the right place, but saying "vote for her because she is a woman" is very counterproductive.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
For me
For me, diversity breaks a tie.  I would not vote for someone who I felt was less qualified because they were a woman/black/gay/etc, but if all other things were equal, I'd go for diversity.  I think it's helpful both politically for my party and having people from more walks of live makes for a better government.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
Maybe I should expand on that.
If someone is equal or more capable then they should be considered. It just so happens that there are many woman who are capable or more of doing the job. Nancy Pelosi for example. I'm not saying elect a less than capable woman. That would only serve to harm the work woman have done so far.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Certainly all qualified candidates should be considered
If she turns out to  be the most qualified, she should get the job without question. But, if Chris Van Hollan (just an example) were to be the slightly better qualified person, he should get the job. Gender should simply not come into play one way or another.  

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
That would be nice
In a perfect world. Just 20 years ago Nancy Pelosi would never have been Speaker. This culture is isn't perfect and we have a lot of work ahead of us to make everything a lot better. But I agree if a man were significantly more qualified then said man should get the job. But if there are only minor differences or gaps then perhaps the disadvantaged group or minority should take priority.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Uhhh
" But if there are only minor differences or gaps then perhaps the disadvantaged group or minority should take priority"

I absolutely hate that logic. I am completely against quotas in all levels of everything. It is against the fundamental concept of equality. I am also against discrimination in all levels for everything. Quotas are just as bad as discrimination. Unless there is proven need for special accommodation to be made (VRA, for instance), everyone should have an equal opportunity to have their name considered for a position. There is absolutely no reason that someone like Van Hollan should be passed over for a job he is more qualified for, even if only slightly for, simply because he is a straight white male. I would be equally infuriated if Debbie was passed over because she was a woman if she were more qualified, even if only slightly so.

(Note, I am using Van Hollan as an example, and am not saying that he SHOULD be the next minority leader)

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Leadership skills are subjective
It's rather difficult to define "slightly better" for something like House Leader.

It's certainly more subjective than say the college admissions process. It's not like electing the person with the best LSAT score.

If Pelosi were to step down, I'd think there'd be maybe a dozen candidates (perhaps more) who are essentially equally qualified. At that point, affirmative action makes sense.


[ Parent ]
Not a good topic for SSP.
Let's move on.

[ Parent ]
Haha
the only insults the Republicans could hurl at her besides her "being a crazy liberal feminist" would be anti-semetic in origin.

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Debbie
I think Debbie will wind up in the very top ranks of leadership sooner rather than later.  She's great.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
I guess
She's also highly partisan and not particularly good at hiding it.  She might climb the ladders of leadership - but the Republicans will easily be able to tag her as far left and highly partisan.  Also mean-spirited after she called the Tea Party racist.

[ Parent ]
Expanding on that...
The point is that her rhetoric and temperament makes Pelosi and Dean seem centrist.  That can easily be exploited if she gets too powerful.

[ Parent ]
You know what is so funny about that?
Republicans in congress will find a way to demonize anybody and anything. The difference is will we have a strong leader whom won't let the demonization drag down their qualities as a leader or will have someone whom won't fight it?

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
No argument there
You're right - and I'm a Republican.  No one plays the victim card better than Sarah Palin.  And it's a little ridiculous.

But throwing out the "racist" card is a surefire way to nab attention and invite battles from your political opponents.


[ Parent ]
Leader
Well, I see her more as the Whip or Majority leader rather than Speaker.  I think she'd be perfect as the whip, though.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
Highly partisan?
HAHAHAHHA. I'm sorry, not to be a dick or anything, that's just hilarious because of the reason SSP hates her, namely that as DCCC chairwoman (?) she refused to target the Diaz-Balarts or Ros-Lehtinen. and now she's being called "too partisan"...

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
I actually wouldn't mind Clyburn
Otherwise, I'd be pretty strongly opposed to the others on that list, esp. Anthony Weiner, who's maybe one or two notches more pleasant in tone than Alan Grayson. Chris Van Hollan wouldn't inspire anyone, nor Steve Israel. Personally, I'd love to see Gary Ackerman or Louise Slaughter as Minority Leader.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

[ Parent ]
She's a lock
In two years Boehner will be the one with the negatives.  And there's no guarantee that she'll run again in two years.  She might be hanging on for one more term to keep the seat warm for somebody not named Hoyer to become leader.  So, one way or the other, her profile will be lowered substantially.

[ Parent ]
Me to
She's a lock but this is really bad news for Democrats. Like I said in a previous thread, Democrats are stuck on stupid.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
Not so sure
Now have thought about it a bit it probably won't matter. I mean look how unpopular the GOP are - the American people still gave them power precisely because they didn't have it.

[ Parent ]
conspiracy is right, and so is DGM whenever he opines on this subject. The reality is...
...Pelosi's unpopularity had nothing to do with our losses.

NOTHING.

Our losses were primarily because the economy is poor, and the lion's share of voters determined the stimulus and bailouts failed and therefore didn't offset the fiscal and moral objections of record deficits and debt and the unsavory saving of what are perceived as bad actors in the economy.  Secondarily, health care hurt us, more because of the messaging failure and long drawn-out process providing opportunity to kill reform's image with a thousand cuts.  In particular seniors are terrified of it, thanks particularly but not solely to the "death panels" myth and the elimination of Medicare Advantage--I wouldn't be surprised if someone did an extensive post-election survey of voters, they might find hostility to health care reform was the top driver of voting behavior among seniors.  The Obama Administration's own poor messaging contributed to this, including poor messaging to the House that if they voted on stuff first, the Senate would follow.  Pelosi rightly felt burned that she made her caucus go out on limbs pointlessly.

Pelosi-bashing didn't win Republicans any seats.  A lot of people WRONGLY will interpret otherwise, but just because you do a particular thing (in this instance, bashing Pelosi and tying Dem incumbents to her) and you win doesn't mean that particular thing helped you win.  Correlation does not equal causation.

Wave elections are driven by big issues, not personalities.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
All you have to look at is 2008
when the same amount of Pelosi-bashing ended up with the Republicans losing a bunch of seats.

34, WM, Democrat, FL-11

[ Parent ]
And 2006. The Pelosi-bashing is far from new.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05...

Asked why she makes such a popular Democratic bogyman, or bogeywoman, Ms. Pelosi shrugged, smirked and, finally, smiled.

"I am an Italian-American Catholic grandmother," she said, "very traditional in terms of values."

She repeated this three times, as if to emphasize that her self-image was at odds with more common descriptors, like "San Francisco liberal."

Representative Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland, the House Democratic whip, said, "They will try to demonize our members in leadership because it's all they have left."



My blog
Twitter
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28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
In all fairness, back in '06, I was thrilled over the prospects of Speaker Pelosi
Personally, I still respect her, and I empathize with her desire to keep the position, but I also have the political savvy to realize she's a huge drag on Democrats now. For another two years, the GOP gets to hit Dem candidates on an Obama/Reid/Pelosi line, and that's the last thing Obama needs in states where Pelosi is as appealing as a candy bar made out of chalk. In all fairness, the Pelosi attack didn't hurt a candidate like Mark Critz, but, still, the Dems need as many new, fresh faces heading into 2012.

Just to forewarn ya, I'll probably be pretty pessimistic about Obama's re-election hopes from here on out. I don't see things getting much worse for congressional Dems, but my gut tells me Obama's in for an uphill climb in the most crucial battlegrounds (Ohio, Florida, Virginia). I'm not too worried about the NV/NM/CO trio, but I'd watch Iowa and Wisconsin very carefully. He'll surely win Pennsylvania. Romney could probably take New Hampshire, but otherwise, that should be OK.

Sorry for hijacking the discussing with that!

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast


[ Parent ]
There is no better Democratic fundraiser. I'm hoping she has a lock
and I want to see Clyburn in the #2 slot. I've seen more than enough of Hoyer to last a lifetime.

[ Parent ]
Let's put Pelosi in context.
1) Most Americans have no idea who she is.  Though from the constant attacks she sounds "bad."  Still like Gingrich she has been effectively tarred by the opposition.  Is she a "San Francisco liberal?"  Yes.  But it doesn't have much to do with how she leads.  Gephardt was a moderate from a relatively conservative district.  Doesn't matter.  Your job as leader is to keep all factions relatively happy and united hopefully towards some common goal.  And often times moderates may prefer a liberal and a liberal may prefer moderate if they bend over backwards more to keep that faction happy.

But despite being an inaccurate representation of her speakerhood "San Francisco liberal" is tatooed across her forehead and another spokesman might be better.

2) Pelosi was more effective than Reid as a leader of the majority.  Though of course there was no filibuster she needed to worry about.  Though she had her Stupak problems to mirror Reid's Nelson problems.

Pelosi never called a house vote until she knew the results.  And with the House being more dictatorial there was far less room for her to be embarassed or surprised. Plus she never had to deal with a filibuster.

Of course being in the minority is a different animal.  How effective was she in the minority between 2005 and 2010?  Could we have done better?  Probably.  Don't make too much out of demise.  It's not like say when we lost Daschle who was a wizard at finding holes in the Senate rules to his advantage and whose loss we still feel today.

Hoyer seems spineless which is why I'd prefer he's passed over.  But I'm not afraid of replacing Pelosi.

3) If Pelosi beats Hoyer be prepared for some Blue Dogs in Republican districts to vote against her in the final vote for Speaker.  Don't panic and take it out of context.  The final result is already known and it doesn't really matter WHO they vote for if the Republican has the majority.

Joe Lieberman votes with the party on just about everything.  Except votes that matter.  Don't fret over votes that don't matter.

NY-13, Democrat. Blog @ http://infinitefunction.wordpr...


[ Parent ]
Daschle was horrible....
Looked like a teddy bear... acted like one, too... had very little sway over his caucus.

She did a good job as minority leader.  She made sure that no "competing proposal" was presented to Bush's Social Security privatization plan.


[ Parent ]
It's hard to be a Dem Majority Leader when
the Prez is a Republican, the House is Republican, and you have the slimmest of majorities.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Stuff got passed under Daschle.
Now I do understand people are angry at him and Gephardt for going along with the invasion of Iraq.  Like most of the country when we were all for the most part hoodwinked.  But when he was leader in both the majority and minority we'd often win Senate votes leaving Republican leaders to scratch their heads.

When he was leader Republicans actually on occasion negotiated with Democrats because Democrats didn't just say, "let's just vote for it so the issue will go away."

Now as far as public persona.  Yeah.  He made Harry Reid look charismatic.

NY-13, Democrat. Blog @ http://infinitefunction.wordpr...


[ Parent ]
I think the general feeling on this site is
General fresh progressive (Earl Blumenauer, Wasserman-schultz, ect) >Pelosi>Hoyer> general blue dog

Also What do people think about Markey (MA07)?  


[ Parent ]
West Virginia
Anyone buy into the crazy notion that Carte Goodwin should run for governor? The idea behind appointing him to the senate in the first place was to build on an already impressive Democratic bench in WV. Goodwin seems like a legit contender for the governor's mansion.  

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


How about WV-01?
Not sure if he lives there or has roots there, but that could be an idea...

[ Parent ]
2nd
Goodwin lives in Charleston, and in the quick research I did, his whole family is a Charleston one. I mean, he COULD run for the seat when/if Shelly Moore Cupito runs for governor. But I think he would be better served getting on the ball early and announcing his candidacy for Governor. Shelly showed that she is a bit gun shy about running against a strong Democrat statewide this year, and Goodwin may even keep what little bench there is in West Virginia where she is.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
He was a pleasant surprise
Of course, he was only a short-term appointee. But he didn't seem too Conservadem-y. Didn't break off on contentious votes, etc. Overall, he seemed like a promising team-player.  

[ Parent ]
WV
I was just thinking this.  Unless Tomblin ends up being good.  

29/D/Male/NY-01

[ Parent ]
Steny's the odd man out
When the music stops.  Doubt he'll beat Clyburn.  Very clever of Nancy.  I think one of the reasons she stuck around was to make sure that Hoyer did not become leader.  Now she can get him out of leadership entirely.  

I don't really like Hoyer
so I'm hoping he's done after this. Early retirement?

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
If Hoyer retires
then there would be no obstacles to creating this map: http://www.swingstateproject.c...

I actually like Hoyer; he's not as conservative as his reputation sometimes makes him out to be, and he and Pelosi had a pretty successful good cop/bad cop thing going to keep the Blue Dogs in line.

24, CA-14, previously DC-AL


[ Parent ]
There was a lot of griping...
over SurveyUSA being out of whack in the last couple months.  And while some earlier summer polling did seem that way, it looks like they closed extremely well.  Even in CA-20, where they showed Andy Vidak (R) getting 52% of the vote, and he now has 51.5% of the vote.

Plenty of votes left to count in CA-20
Premature to start doing a post-mortem on that one.

But yes, they had the right idea in a few races, notably VA-09 -- they did notice the Boucher implosion.


[ Parent ]
SUSA
If you judge them on their polls the last two weeks or so, when they started to include cell phones, they weren't bad.  But you can't ignore their absolutely misreable polls early on.  Like Perriello losing by 35.

[ Parent ]
Interestingly, I think
they still did end up slightly underestimating Perriello. And they sucked ass in OR-05.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Pelosi
Pelosi is doing her party no favors by staying in and I'm not at all sure she won't be able to keep some of the remaining Blue Dogs from voting with the GOP when they feel the need to appear moderate.  But as a GOP supporter, of course, I'm happy to see it as I think it helps my party.  Hoyer was a blank slate, but Pelosi, like Gingrich before her, is known and disliked by many in the center.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

Hoyer would become just as reviled as Pelosi, over time
The GOP is effective -- far more effective than Democrats -- at demonizing their opponents simply by using their name as a pejorative. Just think about it: if you hear someone spit after they say the name "Nancy Pelosi" every day for the past five years, you'll eventually attach a negative connotation to that person without even needing firmly-grounded reasons for it.

It would happen to Hoyer; it would happen to Shuler. Democrats had some measure of success against Tom DeLay, but they're simply not playing with the same deck as the GOP on this.

So, yeah, he'd be a blank slate. But not for long.


[ Parent ]
But
The Dems also were able to demonize Gingrich fairly well.  Of course, he gave them a big target.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
His Orangeness will prove quite easy to demonize
Has any incoming Speaker had such pathetic approval numbers? I doubt it. And they will only get worse.

[ Parent ]
i'm sure they said the same about pelosi
/t

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

[ Parent ]
And they were right
What is your point?

[ Parent ]
were they right though?
yes we lost, pretty badly, but how many people voted simply to oppose pelosi, who wouldn't already vote republican?  for how many swing voters was pelosi the biggest issue?  or the actions in opposing pelosi the biggest issue?  Partisans care about the speaker, for swing voters it's probably just another reason to vote against the party in power.  pelosi didn't hurt in 2006, or 2008 and unless you show me data saying thousands or millions of voters voted republican, who would have otherwise voted democrat, solely because of pelosi I don't think attacking any speaker (save maybe a gingrich) would be a wise political move.

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

[ Parent ]
Fair enough
But I'd bet she did hurt in some places. But not as much as the president and certainly the state of the economy.

[ Parent ]
I
I am not sure he will be.  He will be easy to caricature because of his tan and crying spells, but not so sure he'll become the face of attack ads.
I'm fully expecting the opening skit of SNL this weekend to have him crying, though.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
He's a media whore
He wants to be associated with republicans so it will be pretty easy to cast him as the personification of the unpopular house republicans

[ Parent ]
We just need to remember
Let's remember to take lots of pictures of him hugging and kissing and crying with and around all the Republican Congress(wo)men so that when it eventually comes out that he's been banging a lobbyist/whiskey bottle/hooker for the past decade, it'll be really easy to tarnish them all with the Boehner brush.

Kansan by birth, Californian by choice, and Gay by the grace of God.

[ Parent ]
Pelosi is a good arm twister
She can get blue dogs to oppose something if we really need them to oppose it. As a minority leader, republicans aren't going to attack her as that will be very stupid and partisan when your the majority. Steny Hoyer would get rolled over by republicans very easily so I would support whatever it takes to keep him out of leadership.

[ Parent ]
Arm twisting hardly matters in the minority
That being said the GOP are gonna have enough problems with Boehner methinks. Their unpopularity may not have stopped them getting control but it damn well will now they actually have power.

[ Parent ]
ARm twisting is VERY important in the minority....
It is crucial that conservadems do not act as collaborators to give the GOP "bipartisan" cover in their operations.

[ Parent ]
I don't have strong feelings either way
about Pelosi but I think your argument is wrong.

For one thing the Democratic electorate and Democratic caucus in the House look like and align more to Pelosi now than they did previously.  She's more representative of the Democratic base now than before.  And Hoyer, less.

Second, making Hoyer leader because Republicans like him better is an act of weakness.

Third, to my knowledge Pelosi has not disappointed or made serious mistakes that merit demotion and Hoyer has no accomplishments or prospects of greater success that merit promotion.  My worst problem with Pelosi is that she was such a b-tch toward Hillary Clinton during the primary for no clear or productive reason.


[ Parent ]
Your second argument
From what little I've seen of TV coverage, the media is declaring that the Democrats must show humility to the voters and do public penance, and keeping Pelosi on would signal the opposite.

There is some logic to that, but I think a more important signal that needs to be sent is that the Democrats aren't about to roll over for the GOP, which is what a lot of Republicans are expecting/hoping for. The media backlash will be strong, mainly because it goes against the preferred storyline of the failed Pelosi leadership, but that's been the main storyline for the past decade anyway.

Lots of politicians have gotten calls to resign during a crisis, but to actually do so means you're forever tarred as a failure, while hanging on gives you the opportunity to rehabilitate yourself (compare Eliot Spitzer to David Vitter). Having Pelosi stay on puts the "Pelosi was officially a failure" obituaries on hold, and gives her the chance to prevent them from ever happening at all.

24, CA-14, previously DC-AL


[ Parent ]
Oh yes, there's definitely an effort
to buffalo Democrats by Republicans in the media.  They've been really susceptible to it in the past, so why not try it again?


[ Parent ]
inspired by Chris Bowers'
post on how the Progressive Caucus as a group did a lot better than Blue Dogs or New Democrats, I decided to see how Bruce Braley's Populist Caucus did on Tuesday. They lost five out of 33 members, including one vice chair. As a group, they still did better than the Blue Dogs and New Democrats, though. There's some overlap between the Populists and the other caucuses.

Blue dogs were playing on much tougher terrain
Of course Progressives did better than Blue Dogs, they were from mostly safe districts. The exact wrong lesson to learn for Democrats is that they have to mover further left.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
Guess what!
The progressive caucus is the largest caucus in the house. I'm a realist. The party can't move to far to the left, but it also shouldn't move to the right. Nancy Pelosi is good at what she does and guess what the average voter could care less about the Minority leader.  

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Sure
I read this all the time on here about how large the Progressive Caucus is, that's great and all, but the Blue Dogs have a self imposed cap, so they'll never be as large.

[ Parent ]
So your trying to say
that the Blue Dog caucus would be larger than the Progressive caucus. Damn those self imposed caps! Look I'm not asking for purity. I'm asking that Democrats follow most Democratic principles. Something quite a few of the Blue Dogs did not do. Not all of them were like that. I respect my Congressman Baron Hill. He was a leader in the Blue Dog caucus, but he didn't let it be the be all and end all of his political career.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Nope
I'm simply saying that the Blue Dogs will never be the size of the CPC because they purposely limit their membership, that's all.

[ Parent ]
They have a lot of vacant chairs to fill now!


[ Parent ]
I wonder how many takers there will be


[ Parent ]
They
should rename the Blue dogs, "The Moderate caucus." Hell they might attract that one moderate Republican left to join.

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Alright?
I'm not sure what the point in that was, but alright.

I was simply saying that the Blue Dogs have an internal mechanism to ensure that they'll never be the majority of the Democratic caucus.


[ Parent ]
That cap has a reason
and that reason explains why Blue Dogs are such a problem.

There are two reasons for House Reps to join the Blue Dogs: needing the money because their district is poor, or needing the money and conservative political cover because their district is so conservative.  Or both.

The conservatives in the caucus got near-annihilated.  I'm pretty sure the rest aren't long for this world either.

The reason for the cap and the waiting list are that the corporations don't feel the need to buy themselves favor with an excessive number of House Reps.  And the cost of staying reelected has gone up a lot recently.



[ Parent ]
Um?
"The reason for the cap and the waiting list are that the corporations don't feel the need to buy themselves favor with an excessive number of House Reps.  And the cost of staying reelected has gone up a lot recently. "

I'm fairly certain it's a percentage or ratio based cap, not an exact number. Still want to use that same argument?


[ Parent ]
Uh...so what if it is?


[ Parent ]
It's very faulty comparison,
which borders with open lie. It's all, but impossible to lose 90% of seats, which elect members of CPC, ewen if you run Bill Jefferson-clones in all of them. How on earth you can lose CA-06, 09, 15, 30 and so on? CO-02? GA-04 and 05? IL-07? NY-08? And so on. Absolutely impossible. So even to compare reelection percentages (and make conclusions) for members of CPC, for whom elections usually begins and ends in primary, and Blue Dogs is... well, a very big deception and (IMO) meanness. I know some activists on Dayly Kos who even now brag about "low reelection percentage of Blue Dogs" as greatest achievement of 2010 elections. They don't speak at all about the fact that Republicans gained a majority in House - it's of no interest to them. Their only subject is that comparison of percentages we speak about here...

[ Parent ]
I didn't read it that way
Obviously the Progressive caucus is mostly not in competitive districts. So I didn't read it as proof that they are "better" candidates than Blue Dogs. The fact remains that the Progressive share of the incoming House Democratic caucus is much larger than their share of the outgoing Congress. The Blue Dog/New Democrat share is smaller. That has implications for Hoyer and other things.

[ Parent ]
Thanks
desmoinesdem,

This is off-topic from the discussion we're having, but I just want to thank you for recognizing that there is a Blue Dog Coalition and a New Democrat group as well.

Too often it seems as if they're lumped together as "Blue Dogs". I'm glad to see someone else recognize the difference.


[ Parent ]
Plus there are some Dems
that are Blue Dogs and New Dems, like Jane Harman (very liberal on social issues while being more hawkish on foreign policy and has frequently sided with Republicans on economic votes) and Loretta Sanchez (who is more of a Blue Dog in Name Only, as she has voted with Pelosi about 98% of the time; I guess she took the labels to win reelection in Orange County).

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
And not only she
IMO, Thompson and Sherman are not especially "blue doggish" too)))))

[ Parent ]
The only Cali Dems
that could really be called "blue dogs" are the Central Valley Dems Cardoza and Costa (if he hangs on).

Thompson in CA-01 is pretty much party-line Democratic on everything except gun control (expected in a very rural [for California standards] district). Schiff in CA-29; I hardly hear anything blue doggish from him or anyone else. Ditto Baca.

And I find it amazing that all 34 Cali Dems, including all the Blue Dogs and New Dems, voted for the health care reform earlier this year.

There are some New Dems from California that are not Blue Dogs: Ellen Tauscher before she went to the state department, Lois Capps, Laura Richardson, the late Juanita Millender-McDonald, Susan Davis.

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
Thanks! And sorry - od course i meant Schiff...


[ Parent ]
No one disputes that
It was expected from the very beginning. But it's nothing to brag about...

[ Parent ]
Mmm
dug up this commercial of Ben Nelson and Jon Bruning collaborating together to pass some sort of Amendment in 2008. How things change so quickly...



19, Male, Independent, CA-12


CA 20
Costa is going to win.

There are 79,000 ballots out in Fresno County and 62,000 out in Kern county. Only about 20% of them will probably be from CA-20 but that should be enough since Costa is winning both those counties by over 20%. Vidak's stronghold, Kings county, only has 500 ballots outstanding.

http://www.sos.ca.gov/election...

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan


Reagan
would be suffering a heart attack right about now if he saw how Democratic California became. So basically the West/Pacific region was the only region of the country that didn't have a net loss of Democratic house seats. We even picked up Hawaii and California's governorships!

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Cue GOP : We wuz robbed
Though actually I'd be a little pissed too, quite a few races that looked great on election night (or at least close) have gone the other way. WA-02, CA-11 and 20. Even NY-25.

21,Democrat, NY-02, male

[ Parent ]
What's happening with NY-25?
Is it tilting back toward Maffei? AP numbers still seem to show him down 600+.

[ Parent ]
Absentee and provisionals haven't been counted yet
I think it will be very, very, very close, possibly within a 100 votes.

21,Democrat, NY-02, male

[ Parent ]
Larson has been increasing his lead in WA 2 and will survive. n/t


[ Parent ]
Bill Raggio
Doesn't Nevada require a 2/3rds vote for budget or tax-related bills? If I remember right, Raggio was the one who negotiated with Democrats to get past that mark. I hope Nevada doesn't end up with CA-style budget showdowns because of this.

I hope Sharron Angle runs for Raggio's seat again. If nothing else, it would provide us with another cycle of comic relief.

24, CA-14, previously DC-AL


I
want Sharron Angle to primary John Ensign in 2012. Let's trot out Christine O'Donnell while we're at it!

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
She sounds angry and defiant
even getting cover from the likes of Jim DeMint. And she did manage to carry Kent and Sussex counties. If Carper retires she's who I'd want Democrats to be facing up against. Her Urquart, who actually did worse than her.

[ Parent ]
Both will undoubtedly run again
In Angle's case, I don't think she can break 40% in a primary, so all the national GOP needs is for Ensign to retire and then prop-up ONE mainstream candidate. For my money, Lowden probably would've won this year's primary had Tarkanian not siphoned-off the rank-and-file.

In O'Donnell's case, the Delaware GOP bench is pretty anemic - the only formidable candidate would be State Auditor Tom Wagner, who won re-election this year by 1 point - and thus, if Carper opts to run again, they may not bother to interfere. If, however, Carper didn't run and the Dem primary shook things up, you might find John Cornyn targeting Wagner.  

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast


[ Parent ]
O'Donnell might have to keep on running
It seems like the main GOP-friendly outlet Fox News isn't giving her a job, I'm guessing because she went off the reservation so much.

[ Parent ]
Hmm...
I interpret the WV law as making State Senate President Earl Ray Tomblin Governor for life. Hah. Since it doesn't specify when the election is to be held...

Anyway, Capito will certainly. People are just being silly saying she won't. She's always wanted to be Governor, she's just been biding her time. She would have beaten Manchin had she run for Senate, however she knew she couldn't get past a self-funding teabagger like Raese in the primary, especially with her moderate views on social issues and her openness to dealing with labor and making compromises. That will open her seat up though, and Democrats would have a good shot at it; though I feel State Senator John Unger would be in the best position, representing as he does a heavily Republican area at the district's edge.  


CT-Gov: AP resinstates call for Malloy
Dan Malloy has defeated Republican Tom Foley to become the first Democrat in two decades to be elected governor of Connecticut.

The Associated Press on Friday reinstated its call of Malloy as the winner of the governor's race. The AP initially called Malloy the winner on Wednesday, after Secretary of the State Susan Bysiewicz said her preliminary count showed Malloy had won by 3,103 votes. The AP withdrew the call Wednesday night when its vote count, with all but a handful of precincts reporting, showed Foley with a narrow lead.

http://www.chron.com/disp/stor...

And lo and behold, the check mark is back next to Malloy's name at:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/f...


Oops, make that "reinstates" n/t


[ Parent ]
Pelosi
I like her as much as most liberals do, but really this is a horrible idea.  I understand no matter who is in charge will be demonized, but Pelosi is a pretty bad public speaker and she already has high negatives amongst those who know her.

I know a lot of people will argue that most people don't know her and they will demonize anyone, but still, I think its obviously time for someone new.

Hoyer is obviously not the answer though, not sure who is.

29/D/Male/NY-01


Stephanie Herseth? *tears*
But seriously...I really don't know.
Steve Israel, Debbie Wasserman Schulz, Earl Blumenauer, Allyson Schwartz all come to mind.

21,Democrat, NY-02, male

[ Parent ]
Schulz
I thought some of the netroots hated her because they thought she protected several GOP GL Congressmen in 2008. They might put up a fight if she's named for a leadership role.

[ Parent ]
As far as I know, this includes SSP's DavidNYC


21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
A message from Chris Bowers
Keep in mind that after the 2002 election debacle, we were told making Nancy Pelosi Democratic leader would be a disaster. Supposedly, we would have been better off with Harold Ford Jr.

The Republicans didn't shirk from who they were after they got drubbed, and look at them now.  It might be nice to have a fresh progressive face in the office, but that's not available, so my money's on Nancy.


[ Parent ]
Hank Johnson Supports Pelosi
http://blogs.ajc.com/political...

Thought y'all might be interested in reading that. Kind of surprised me, I thought he'd call for new leadership.


He's making the same assessment
many of the rest of us--including Pelosi herself--are: the alternatives are unattractive from strategic and ideological perspectives.  

[ Parent ]
Oh Ok
Considering the losses Tuesday night, I'm not sure how it makes sense to keep her in there.

I've read the Tip O'Neill and Rayburn comparisons. Pelosi is neither of them.

I'm not even necessarily advocating for one of the few remaining moderate/Conservative Democrats to get the position. Would that be my top choice? Certainly. But I do understand the political reality. I'd have no problem with DWS or another liberal becoming Minority Leader.

Just a simple shake-up in leadership could send a message to the voters could do quite a lot.


[ Parent ]
Right now, a "shake-up" would look like a freakout.
Ultimately I think the question is whether a conciliatory approach will win back the House in 2012. I don't see how that's possible. Nancy Pelosi will continue to have a national platform, and she'll be able to keep the caucus together when it matters. Nobody will pay attention to Steny Hoyer or care what he says or thinks.

Democrats are never seen as being willing to stand a fight. nancy Pelosi doesn't have that problem. If there were some other candidate from within the House who could properly assume such a mantle, I would support that person. And maybe Pelosi will retire in a year. But for now, she's ready to lead.  


[ Parent ]
After 1994, the blue dog caucus was formed...
...as a response the "lessons" of the midterms.  It took 12 years to regain the seats lost.  Collaboration and accommodation does not put you back in power.  The GOP did not shift to the center after 2008, and it has netted them huge dividends.

It is important not to quit when you are down, and it is important to keep up the fight.  The pendulum will swing back again soon enough, but the only way to make it succeed to to have a counterweight to the GOP.


[ Parent ]
Pelosi didn't do anything wrong.
Obama did though.

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
The Problem isnt that she did anything wrong.
But the GOP has successfully demonized her so much that she has become a toxic figure that would impact the 2012 Congressional Elections because Republicans would use her in the same way that they successfully did this past cycle. Though i personally like Pelosi and think that she was an awesome speaker after the beating we took in this last cycle we need a fresh face.



[ Parent ]
We need someone who will be able to fight the GOP and keep the caucus together
We KNOW Pelosi will do that. The question is do you want to take a chance with someone else who may or may not be able to do that for the sake of a fresh face?
Besides. After January 3rd, it's all about Boehner. No one is going to pay attention to Pelosi so why replace her when she's doing a good job?

[ Parent ]
How exactly is she going to fight
We have around 243 lockstep Republicans, 23 Blue Dogs, and 36 New Dems in the next congress. It only takes 290 to override a veto. Speaker Boehner will do whatever he wants. And while we control the Senate, moderate Dems and Republicans outnumber progressives there too.

[ Parent ]
Which is why we need someone who can keep the caucus together
And in the senate, since Reid is still the majority leader, he can just not bring up for a vote whatever the House does pass so it doesn't really matter. In the senate, in order to kill something, all you need is the Majority leader and one other senator to oppose it. The fact that there maybe a moderate-republican coalition hardly matters.

And I'm sure there are not 290 congressmen that will support any single peice of legislation.


[ Parent ]

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