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538's pollster analysis: Rasmussen sucked

by: Paleo

Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 9:30 AM EDT


Nate's preliminary analysis of pollsters' performance is out.  And the headline is what we've all known:  Rasmussen is biased.  Up to 2009, Scotty's bias was held in check to some degree.  Since then, he's left it all hang out.  And it shows.  The proof is in the pudding.  (And Nate doesn't even address Rassmussen's 12 point final generic).

The 105 polls released in Senate and gubernatorial races by Rasmussen Reports and its subsidiary, Pulse Opinion Research, missed the final margin between the candidates by 5.8 points, a considerably higher figure than that achieved by most other pollsters. Some 13 of its polls missed by 10 or more points, including one in the Hawaii Senate race that missed the final margin between the candidates by 40 points, the largest error ever recorded in a general election in FiveThirtyEight's database, which includes all polls conducted since 1998.

Moreover, Rasmussen's polls were quite biased, overestimating the standing of the Republican candidate by almost 4 points on average. In just 12 cases, Rasmussen's polls overestimated the margin for the Democrat by 3 or more points. But it did so for the Republican candidate in 55 cases - that is, in more than half of the polls that it issued.

If one focused solely on the final poll issued by Rasmussen Reports or Pulse Opinion Research in each state - rather than including all polls within the three-week interval - it would not have made much difference. Their average error would be 5.7 points rather than 5.8, and their average bias 3.8 points rather than 3.9.

Who did well?  Q, SUSA (in the last three weeks) and, surpisingly, YouGov:

The most accurate surveys were those issued by Quinnipiac University, which missed the final margin between the candidates by 3.3 points, and which showed little overall bias.

The next-best result was from SurveyUSA, which is among the highest-rated firms in FiveThirtyEight's pollster rankings: it missed the margin between the candidates by 3.5 points, on average.

SurveyUSA also issued polls in a number of U.S. House races, missing the margin between the candidates by an average of 5.2 points. That is a comparatively good score: individual U.S. House races are generally quite difficult to poll, and the typical poll issued by companies other than SurveyUSA had missed the margin between the candidates by an average of 7.3 points.

In some of the house races that it polled, SurveyUSA's results had been more Republican-leaning than those of other pollsters. But it turned out that it had the right impression in most of those races - anticipating, for instance, that the Democratic incumbent Jim Oberstar could easily lose his race, as he eventually did.

YouGov, which conducts its surveys through Internet panels, also performed fairly well, missing the eventual margin by 3.5 points on average - although it confined its polling to a handful of swing races, in which polling is generally easier because of high levels of voter engagement.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.n...

Paleo :: 538's pollster analysis: Rasmussen sucked
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doesn't matter
This cycle was mission accomplished for Rasmussen. Next year, when he keeps putting out five times as many polls as anyone else, do you think the media will ignore his efforts to shape the narrative?

Mission accomplished
Agree.  But the tarnishing of his reputation in the polling communnity can be used as a springboard for media attention as to his bias and his methodology.  Democrats should also press the point.  The more noise about it, the better.

[ Parent ]
Rasmussen didn't accomplish anything......
This is so much mythmaking that people are buying that Rasmussen somehow contributed to our losses.

They didn't.

This "narrative" business is the stuff of political junkies and political media and political professionals, and never reaches the voting public.  No one's vote is being influenced by this.

Proof in the pudding:  Harry Reid.  How did that "narrative" thing in the final month, when ALL public polls said Angle was up and by as much 4, work out for 'em?

But that's just one example, I'm sure it's easy to point to others with a little homework.

I don't doubt Scotty MEANT to influence the narrative, and he gets his polls included as data points by the media, but that never translated to any influence over outcomes.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Wouldn't it affect fundraising, though?
Rasmussen showing previously-safe Dems in trouble surely must have been very easy for Republicans to tout in fundraising e-mails. "The latest Rasmussen poll shows that we can win! Give us money and let's make it happen!"

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Meh, it's a drop in the bucket as far as fundraising influence goes.
Sure GOP candidates could point to that, but absent Rasmussen they can come up with other things to tout fundraising.  They can pay for their own cheap message-testing robopoll and tout the phony results and raise money that way, and that's probably more effective than direct mail.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
I can't really believe that...
After all the stupid Republican donors who were led to believe that Sean Bielat could beat Barney Frank or that Bill Marcy could beat Bennie Thompson because they cooked up some bad internal polls will be as eager to shell out money next time.  

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)

[ Parent ]
They are stupid enough to do it every time. Nancy Pelosi's opponent...
...raised something like $1.7 million.  Seriously.  All because he was running against Pelosi.  And he got 18%, which everyone knew would be in the ballpark of what he got.

GOP small donors are that stupid, they will always throw their money away on anyone challenging a high-profile Dem.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
what happened with the youth vote Tuesday?
Is there any data on that? I remember that Survey USA seemed to be the only pollster consistently finding Republican candidates ahead among young voters.

I know a lot of young voters stayed home, but I wonder what the vote share for the parties was among the young people who did vote.


Youth
Dropped from 18% of the electorate in '08 to 11%.

[ Parent ]
Youth vote
In 2006 it was 12%, in 2008 it was 18%, and in 2010 it was 11%,

Obama carried the Youth vote 66-32.  In 2010 it was 57-40.  In 2006 it was 60-38

Biggest surprise to me was the liberal and Democratic vote.  Liberals voted for Obamat 89-10 in 2008, they voted 90-7 for Democrats in 2010.  Democrats voted 92-7 in 2010, in 2008 they voted 89-10 for Obama.

Liberals and Democrats we MORE likely to support their House candidate than they were Obama.

That surprised me.


[ Parent ]
Maybe less loyal liberals sat this one out
Instead of showing up and voting against their party, they simply stayed home. That would reduce the number of liberal and Democratic voters, but increase their loyalty percent.

24, CA-14, previously DC-AL

[ Parent ]
Within the MOE
I don't think it's statistically significant.

[ Parent ]
^^^^^^^THIS. The difference is statistically meaningless......
These are subsamples, and they have higher margins of error just like subsamples in any poll.  The difference is too small for the sizes of subsamples as involved to consider it valid.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
There is no evidence
that liberals stayed home, that the young stayed home, or African Americans stayed home in a way other than is typical for an off year election.

It is surprising, but true.

This election was about independents, and moderates becoming conservatives.


[ Parent ]
I was not surprised
at how well YouGov fared.  

PPP also did very well
3.8 vs. 3.3 for Quinnipiac with less bias (0.3 towards the Republicans vs. 0.8 for Qunnipiac.)  It will now not be possible for the media or anyone else to discount PPP because it is a Democratic firm.

The one they missed on the most was Alaska (not sure if this is included in the analysis since it was a 3-way race).  They had it 37 Miller, 30 Murkowski, 30 McAdams, but that was because they didn't mention Murkowski's name in the first question.


The Generic Ballot
was about GOP +7.   Gallup's GOP +15 represents an enourmous miss....

Yeah
Anything from Frank Newport yet or is he still in Cheney's bunker?

[ Parent ]
Haven't seen or heard
Must still be in the bunker.

[ Parent ]
Until Dems have their own Ras
The GOP will continue to be able to paint a more bleak picture.  

Rasmussen was so prolific that people begin to believe his stuff because its all there is to ehar.  Until a Dem firm steps forward and polls 15 races a day beginning in August he can paint the narrative and ti will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I grew insanely terrified this cycle at the power that polls seem to have on voters.  It can depress turnout on either side, as we all know.  But considering how many people will have lost by 5,000 votes or fewer in SO many races, I really think the Dems need to find someone willing to counteract Rasmussen.  No one else is near as prolific and/or biased.


PPP?
The problem is, in order to match Rass, you have to be willing to sacrifice your integrity.  Plus, Rass has a ready made mouthpiece for its numbers in Faux.  So as much as people say they're biased, they'll always be able to get their numbers out there.

[ Parent ]
I don't think anybody wants biased polls
Accurate numbers on a consistent basis would more than counteract what Rasmussen is pulling. Hopefully PPP can do that. Their success this cycle is sure to get them more business.

[ Parent ]
I don't think Ras is intentionally pushing an agenda
I think he's simply lazy and cuts corners in ways that make the GOP look good. Nate Silver pretty much ran down the list: no cell phones, no callbacks, one day only calls.

Whatever his true intentions, though, the end result is the same: providing a boost for the GOP. Of the eight polls that put Raese ahead of Manchin, seven of them came from Rasmussen in one form or another (PPP provided the only other one and their polls flipped back to Manchin long before the Ras polls did). Manchin's own pollster says they were never behind in the whole race.

The one good thing about this is that we'll know Rasmussen's true intentions soon enough based on whether he makes significant changes in his polling policies to address Nate's concerns. If he does, great, we'll get honest polling. If not, then Democrats can easily call bias in the future and Ras won't be able to hide behind his once-sterling reputation.

24, CA-14, previously DC-AL


It doesn't help his reputation that...
He refuses to poll individual districts outside of the at-large ones for the reason that he just doesn't "do that," or whatever his bullshit explanation was, or that during special elections, like with Massachusetts, he polled early on, then pulled back and didn't do any polls right around election day so he doesn't mess up his batting average by going out on a limb like PPP did with their bad NY-23rd poll during that special election. It's like Nate said; his polls are the junk food of polling; seems filling, but is really empty. But it probably sets a bad example for other pollsters that they don't have to really spend a lot of time fine-tuning their models as long as they catch SOME vague movement in their polls.

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)

[ Parent ]
He only polls AL districts which are Republican pickups
god forbid he poll Delaware.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Now be fair, he did through in the token Dem at large (Vermont)
Because we were all waiting with baited breath to see if Peter Welch would be beaten in the upset of the century. See, he's not bad - he got Vermont right! No pollster could accurately predict that Democrats would win Leahy's and Welch's seat in what's possibly the most liberal state in the country. Don't bother polling places like Delaware or other congressional districts where there's close races, it's far too important to know how the good people of Vermont and Wyoming are feeling.

But in his defense about  N & S Dakota, constantly turning out polls on those states earlier then anyone else did did actually start to get people to see that Pomeroy and Herseth-Sandlin might not be popular enough to ride the wave. Agree with you on Delaware, though.

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)


[ Parent ]
I think the bigger issue is how the polls do one month, two month, three months out.
That is where we've seen the really big outliers and where we see the most media frenzy.  Most of the pollsters tighten things up and usually get things in the ballpark right before the election but further out things get uglier.

I just mention this because these were exactly the polls we here as well as the media have been gnashing our teeth over.  And they are the ones that have driven the media narrative which often becomes self-fulfilling.

NY-13, Democrat. Blog @ http://infinitefunction.wordpr...


Nate showed that Rasmussen this year...
Didn't get his last polls much more accurate.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.n...

There was really only about a .1% difference on average then any meaningful change.

20, Democrat, Male, MI-06 (Home), MI-02 (College)


[ Parent ]

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