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Handicapping MN-Gov

by: Mark

Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 8:39 PM EDT


I noticed today that Nate Silver crunched the numbers for the Minnesota Governor's race and determined that Democrat Mark Dayton had a 77% chance of victory.  Pretty generous.  With the exception of the 1994 Arne Carlson reelection landslide, Minnesota has had 20 years worth of gubernatorial elections that have had so many dramatic twists and turns that they could have been made into movies.  One actually was!  Given this record of volatility and other specifics of this contest, I think Nate's traditional calculus needs to be thrown out.  This race is far from over, and all three candidates still have a viable path to victory.
Mark :: Handicapping MN-Gov
If recent Minnesota gubernatorial elections are any indication, the great equalizer will be the late October televised debates.  Polls moved in double digits in both directions in a matter of a week based on Minnesota gubernatorial debates.  If you impress there, you're golden.  If you fail to impress, you're ruined.  And that's true almost wherever your poll numbers may currently be.  The Independence Party's articulate 2006 candidate Peter Hutchinson was not in a position to win, but he nonetheless impressed in the debates and managed to surge at Mike Hatch's expense, handing victory to Pawlenty.  With that in mind, let's get back to 2010.

Let's start with the least complicated candidate, both in terms of intellect and his position in the race.  That would be Republican Tom Emmer.  He's been rendered a kook by a solid majority of the electorate and, in a three-candidate race, has a ceiling of about 42% with a basement that could conceivably go as low as 30%.  On the plus side for him, however, is that it's gonna be a Republican year and more low-information voters than usual are likely to pull the lever for whoever has the (R) next to his name.  I suspect this will be especially true outstate where Emmer's hard-right social values are less likely to offend than they would in the suburbs, but whose economic values would devastate them.  Emmer's pathway to victory comes from wedging Horner vs. Dayton and picking up the slack.  Right now, Horner is probably taking more votes away from Emmer than Dayton.  If Emmer can reverse that and pit Dayton versus Horner, which is entirely doable in a year like this, he can simultaneously lift Horner's numbers and plummet Dayton's, allowing Emmer to squeak by with a 35% or better plurality.

Moving onto Dayton whose position of strength is based on three things.  First, he's held office in Minnesota going back to the 1980s and is the only candidate with statewide name recognition, especially among senior voters who tend to view him most favorably.  Second, he's exceeding expectations with the seriousness of his gubernatorial run after his disastrous Senate tenure had initially hurt his favorable ratings.  Having watched early debates, he seems most in command of the issues, and when his numbers are proven to not add up, he quickly fixes them in a way his opponents won't do.  And lastly, the right and center-right are divided between Horner and Emmer, meaning Dayton doesn't need a majority or even a strong plurality to win.

With all that said, Dayton's support is incredibly thin, as was proven when he eked out a one-point primary win in August that he was supposed to win by double-digits.  My fear is that when the spotlight's on in the ninth inning, voters will find "the other guy" more appealing.  While Emmer's basement of support is very unlikely to sink below 30%, Dayton's basement could conceivably drop to Kendrick Meek levels.  If Horner is able to pick off soft Dayton voters, Dayton could easily go the way of 1998 Skip "28%" Humphrey at the hands of Jesse Ventura. Even in the best-case scenario, however, I strongly reject the premise of a 77% likelihood of victory for Dayton.  As Dan Rather would say, his lead is "shakier than cafeteria Jell-O".  And seeing that poll earlier this week showing Jim Oberstar with a scant three-point lead in MN-08 makes Dayton's standing seem all the more fickle given that northern Minnesota (Oberstar country) would most realistically be the place where Dayton would run up the score.  If voters up there are that cool towards Oberstar, I expect they could just as easily turn on Dayton.

Now, onto Tom Horner, whose position in this race is very complicated but nowhere near dire enough to proclaim his chances of victory at zero as Nate Silver's calculation suggests.  Horner has a number of advantages and disadvantages in the hand he holds and only time will tell which direction the 2010 political environment will pull him.  Working to his benefit more than anything else is the endless free advertising his campaign gets from Minnesota media, particularly the left-leaning Minneapolis Star Tribune which blows kisses to Horner on a literal daily basis and never misses a chance to piss on Dayton.  In my decades of reading the Star Tribune, never have I seen them work so hard to get a candidate elected as they are for Tom Horner.  Secondly, his opponents have been successfully caricatured as an extreme liberal and an extreme conservative, given Horner a huge opening to present himself as the guy in the middle when he gets his moment in the spotlight.  Any other year, Horner would not be likely to catch on, but as a center-right candidate in a center-right year facing off against two uninspiring foes who are both seen as ideologues, he might be the right guy at the right time.

Horner has serious downsides though too.  Charismatic Jesse Ventura was able to be the third-party hero during the 1998 economic boom on a painless platform.  Tom Horner has little to none of Jesse's charisma and, given the budgetary armageddon facing the state, has nothing to offer but pain.  And while Horner is widely praised for his comprehensive budget plan, the pain is all reserved for the same groups of people who've been on the receiving end of the pain after eight uninterrupted years of budget crises under Pawlenty.  It's always the working class and middle class expected to take a haircut, and Horner has carefully crafted his plan to make sure the wealthy that have been spared from sacrifice in the past eight years aren't required to make a proportional contribution this year either.  Furthermore, Horner's made a lot of money as a consultant to corporate heavies in the last decade, and if he catches on, it will be pointed out by his opponents that Horner's tax plan effectively amounts to their payola.

And there's one more wild card in play here.  Remember the 2008 Presidential map for Minnesota?  Where about 18-20 counties in Minnesota's northwestern, southwestern, and southeastern corners showed tremendous growth for Obama even as much of state saw little improvement from Kerry's numbers in 2004?   The explanation behind that phenomenon was that Obama monopolized the Fargo and Grand Forks, ND, Sioux Falls, SD, and La Crosse, WI, media markets while John McCain monopolized all of the Minnesota media markets.  In statewide races in Minnesota, voters in these Dakota and Wisconsin media markets are completely blacked out from Minnesota state politics, meaning these parts of the state tend to be unfamiliar with any of the candidates and are likely to base their votes on name ID and generic party preference.  This dynamic proved to be an advantage even to Skip Humphrey in these areas in 1998, and should really benefit Dayton in 2010 given his opponents, both of whom could just as well be named Bob Smith given their limited profile to these voters.  Horner in particular has little chance at getting more than 10% in these areas of the state and represent one more obstacle he'll need to overcome, and even though they make up a small percentage of overall voters, they could easily be the difference in a close election.

With all this in mind, who's gonna win?  It's almost impossible to predict where a Minnesota gubernatorial election will go until the final few days, but it's hard to deny Dayton still has a long-term advantage.  I see Horner gaining at Dayton's expense in the weeks ahead...and perhaps a little bit at Emmer's expense as well.  It's not hard to imagine Horner soaring to a load or a position of serious competitiveness, but the fact that it hasn't happened yet makes me more skeptical than I was two months ago that it every will.  

My best guess is the county map will look similar to the 2002 and 2006 gubernatorial race county maps, but with a few important caveats.  Dayton will win solid majorities in Minneapolis and St. Paul, but with Horner in the mix, he won't dominate there.  I suspect Horner's best numbers will come in the second and third-ring suburbs...places like Bloomington, Minnetonka, Blaine, and Eagan that tend to be the bellwethers in modern Minnesota elections.  However, Horner is not currently poised to win by enough there to compensate for his shortcomings elsewhere.  Still, my money is on a 25% showing from Horner in the state's five most populous counties (Hennepin, Ramsey, Dakota, Anoka, and Washington) based on his strength in the moderate suburbs.

Emmer will dominate in exurbia scoring solid majorities in counties like Sherburne, Wright, Carver, and Scott.  Horner will probably keep Emmer from winning these areas with more than 60% or even 65% as he would in a one-on-one race with Dayton, but it will clearly be the foundation of Emmer's strength in the statewide race.  As for outstate, I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of the independent-friendly rural counties like Sibley, Renville, and Kanabec go for Horner, but by and large it'll be a two-candidate race outstate with a county configuration similar to the Hatch-Pawlenty race of 2006.  Emmer will pull in a narrow plurality outstate, but not enough to make up for his deficit in the core five counties of the metro area.

So there's my take.  Lower Mark Dayton's advantage from Nate Silver's 77% to about 47% and raise Tom Horner's from 0% to 20% and I think you have the state of the Minnesota gubernatorial election.  But again, ask me again on November 1.  In Minnesota, gubernatorial politics are very seldom this simple.

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Handicapping MN-Gov | 85 comments
Soooo far off

Not sure where to begin, but this prediction is far off.  

First:  your assumptions about greater MN are off.  I live in the northern part of the rural L, and Dayton's greater name recognition, especially with older voters, will mean that he will grab a good share of the vote in the L.  Without significant margins in the L, Emmer cannot win--no way, no path.  Carver and Sherburne counties can't save him.  Additionally, while you are correct that we are in the ND media market, the only ads that have been shown up here are from two candidates: Mark Dayton, and Matt Entenza (who ran a fantastic Emmer/Palin ad while he was still in the race for the nomination.)  The MN GOP has been completely dark up here.

Second: you've completely ignored the DFL stronghold on the Range, and the fact that his running mate, Yvonne Prettner Solon, is going to help bring in very good numbers for him that will help grow his margins from the metro areas.  

Third:  according to pollster, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... there have been 14 polls of this race since the early summer.  In only 3 of them has Emmer been leading; the rest clearly show a Dayton lead.  To casually ignore this data and say that Dayton only has a "47%" chance demonstrates a cavalier neglect for fact.  

Last: Emmer's campaign has been showing that the wheels are coming off.  13 former GOP  state legislators just defected to endorse Tom Horner, and it is beginning to show the contours of the coming MN GOP circular firing squad.  http://mnpublius.com/post/1257...  I think this dynamic is going to grow and split the GOP vote a la NY-23

I agree that the last few weeks of this campaign are critically important.  But remember, Tim Pawlenty is the governor of MN, and just as the Republicans are energized, the DFL base is also very hungry to win as well.  


Did You Not Read This In Its Entirety?
I alluded twice to how I thought Dayton's base of strength was in northern Minnesota and how he was best positioned to run up the score there.  When talking about northern Minnesota, I'm primarily alluding to its population center in the Iron Range and Duluth...not Baudette or Bagley, even though Dayton probably has a narrow advantage up there too.

As for the L, the population is small.  Emmer will undoubtedly win the aggregate of counties in the L, but by a much narrower margin that he will in exurbia.  Keep in mind there's a lot of blue counties in the L. And by this point exurbia has a larger population than the entirety of the L, where you can add up 20 counties and still not have 100,000 people.

Interesting that Dayton and Entenza ran primary ads up in the Red River Valley.  Is Dayton still running general election ads up there this cycle?

I stand by my diary.  In 1990, 1998, and 2002, when the gubernatorial race was just as fluid as this one is, the needle moved all over the place after the final debates.  Where the race stands today is very close to irrelevant as it pertains to Minnesota gubernatorial races, particularly with candidates whose support is as soft as that of Dayton and Emmer.  Not really sure why you think I'm so far off.


[ Parent ]
And I stand by my critique

Dayton was never the darling of the activist base, but for rank and file Minnesotans, his name is still powerful--especially with senior voters.  And yes, Dayton is running ads in the Red River Valley.  Nothing from Emmer whatsoever on TV or radio.  

Have you been watching any of the debates thusfar?  I think Dayton has performed admirably, and Emmer is the one that has come off as under-prepared.  I doubt that is going to change in the three weeks before election day.  

And the L is, indeed critical.  Even with a much smaller population, Emmer needs to win by thousands of votes in the L to blunt the impact of the Range, and I doubt Emmer is going to be able to do that.  That is why I think Emmer is in real trouble--without the L, he's done.  I haven't seen or sensed any real excitement about Emmer here in the upper part of the L.  

This entire "Dayton is such a weak candidate" idea I think comes from the chattering class inside St. Paul.  It is the same class that has been losing MN gubernatorial elections for over two decades.  From most of the rank and file here (I am in Beltrami county), Dayton is remember not for his Senate career, but for the department store, which many older voters remember fondly.      


[ Parent ]
Which is an odd reason to vote
for someone. Like Wisconsinites voting for Kohl because they like to shop at Kohl's.  

[ Parent ]
Part of it

is just name recognition for Dayton, but also he has been on the ballot before (and won!)

Also, before the Medicare prescription drug plan, Dayton personally paid for buses to Canada for MN seniors to get their drugs at a much cheaper price, and that was something that seniors that are still around remember vividly.  

One more thing about this canard that Dayton is a poor candidate--this is the one candidate that we had that has won statewide election twice, AND managed to beat the DFL coordinated campaign.  A crappy candidate shouldn't be able to do any of those things.  


[ Parent ]
But Dayton's Statewide Victories Came BEFORE.....
....he graded his Senate performance an F and was rated by Time magazine as one of the five worst Senators.  His image has suffered since his last statewide election victory 10 years ago.  He's not as bad of a candidate as some allege, but he's got more baggage than most.

[ Parent ]
That kind of stuff is catnip

to the rarefied politicos in St. Paul.  I doubt anybody thinks much about that, or if they do, it pales in comparison to his Canada busing or the entire Dayton brand.    

[ Parent ]
Here is why I dont think people care
Dayton represents the 1980's when Dayton's and Target were booming and helping reshape the economy, the Minnesota Miracle was just termed for us and Mark Dayton had started running for every office under the sun.

He has a bad score from the later years but Mark Dayton in his early years represents everything that was going right for Minnesotans.  And now we've elected GOPers and a one Indy for the past two decades and the state is a shit box now.   This is why I think nobody really cares about his F rating and such; people are voting for the Dayton of the 80's versus the Dayton of the 2000's.


[ Parent ]
Thank you for bringing up the store!
Im the only one who seems to when it comes to Dayton and I always feel like an idiot saying, people really miss Dayton's the store and thus there is a hankering for the man himself again.  It's nostalgic and slightly subconscious I think.

Every family get together involves my grandma trashing Macy's.  And then my aunt chimes in, they have such awful buyers there!  Did you hear Mark was thinking of buying back the downtown Macy's and having it be the last and only Dayton's?  Wha, that's fantastic!  chatter chatter chatter


[ Parent ]
I can't imagine that Mark is stupid enough
to buy back the downtown store. That would be a truly nutty move.

[ Parent ]
Exactly!

The Dayton brand that I am referring to is much bigger then Mark's tenure as senator.  For older voters, the word Dayton equals a simpler, easier time, and voting for the man that epitomizes that time in his very last name, a man that bused them or one of their loved ones to Canada for their prescription drugs, is a much more powerful push then many of us young(ish) voters might be aware of.    

[ Parent ]
Fascinating analysis
No doubt, you know Minnesota politics better than me, but my own voter model finds...

Democrat - 40%
GOP - 37%
Independent - 23%

Dayton - 83/3/37 = 43%
Emmer - 6/86/35 = 42%
Horner - 11/11/28 = 15%

Looking back, this is closest to Survey USA's September poll, as opposed to two other polls which found Dayton up more comfortably and a Rasmussen poll which had Emmer up 1. I happen to think Mark "five worst senators" Dayton is a rather limp candidate, especially in this sort of cycle, but I suspect Emmer's flawed-enough to eek-out a victory. I think Horner's presence actually helps Dayton, because my hunch is Emmer would otherwise win Independents.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast


Dayton Isn't A Great Candidate....
Although he's been better than I expected in early debates and his high statewide name ID and popularity with seniors is very useful this election cycle.  I think Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak would have been a more polished candidate, but it's by no means clear if he'd be electable statewide.  Ditto for Margaret Anderson Kelliher whose ties to the Minnesota Legislature would have given her opponents a lot of ammunition to use against her.  Considering Dayton's current standing, I'm not gonna slam him too hard on his electability, but agree we could have done better.  From the party that brought us Skip Humphrey in 1998 and Roger Moe in 2002, we should expect questionable choices for candidates.

Emmer really seems to be damaged goods and his big mouth gets him in all kinds of trouble, so I'm leaning against his ability to beat Dayton in a two-candidate race.  As I said, I think his electability ceiling is about 42%, even in a year like this, as independents do not seem to like him much.  Of course in a year where Rand Paul, Sharron Angle and Joe Miller are poised to become U.S. Senators, the goalposts of craziness acceptability continue to move.


[ Parent ]
One reason I dont like categorize Emmer
in the Paul/Angle/ODonnel/Miller group is because of the state he's in.  He'd love to be that type of candidate but there is going to be a much smaller enthusiasm gap here and Minnesotans are much smarter about politics.  It's clear Emmer knows he cant be the candidate he wants to be as exampled by his backtracking 100% from his servers should make less money crap.

Not to say he doesnt belong with this group, he does.  But electorally, they are all still competitive while I really dont think Emmer has a shot in hell at winning.  


[ Parent ]
O'Donnell doesn't

have a chance, but certainly the others do.  Emmer isn't a match for either Dayton or Horner in a debate.  If any of you listened to the debates at FarmFest (with Margaret Anderson Kelliher and Matt Entenza in that) you can see he isn't able to really keep up rhetorically.  

[ Parent ]
ODonnel is competitive?


[ Parent ]
wups, clearly not
replace with Buck  ;)

[ Parent ]
MN-08 poll
That MN-08 poll was an internal for Cravaack. There's no way Oberstar is going to lose this year. He as over $1 million CoH to Cravaak's $100k. Plus the Iron Range is one of the most pro-DFL parts of the state aside from the Twin Cities. Dayton shouldn't have any problem winning up here especially with his running mate, Pretner-Solon, who used to be the senator for Duluth and is well known.

While the polls do change a lot in the last month in Minnesota, I think you're underestimating Dayton's chances. This is kind of like Minnesota's 2008. Nobody likes Pawlenty and the DFL is excited because we haven't won a governors race in 24 years.

21, Progressive Democrat, MN-08 (home), MN-05 (college)


That is a perfect comparison
The only thing is we got Hillary instead of Obama as the candidate.

[ Parent ]
Horner is a former Republican
Why do you think he'll draw more Democrats from Dayton than Republicans from Emmer, other than the Star-Trib lovefest you describe?

And do you really believe, on the basis of a single POS (R) internal with 300 respondents, that Oberstar is in serious danger?  Or that Dayton is likely to underperform in MN-08 (D+3) given that his running mate is a sitting legislator from the district?


I Think A Gut-Level Uneasiness About Dayton.....
...will drive DFLers to Horner.  Plus, the whole "highest taxed state in the nation" canard will scare some people.

And I think Oberstar could be in real trouble, yes.  The incumbents in demographically similar WI-07 and MI-01 ran for the hills rather than face re-election, and Oberstar represents the exact sort of Congressional long-timer that could be vulnerable in a "throw the bums out" year.  He's more likely than not to win, but even so, it'll probably be by an all-time low margin, and that could drag down Dayton's numbers.  Also, I don't necessarily expect much erosion in Duluth and the Iron Range itself, but that represents a dwindling percentage of voters in MN-08.  The growing part of the district is red and getting redder.


[ Parent ]
You seem to be the most
pessimistic person from Minnesota. You are all around the most pessimistic Democrat, and the only one who generally seems quite assured that the state is trending Democratic. Bart Stupak would have won reelection easily, he retired because he was thoroughly disenchanted with the pro-life movements lack of pragmatism and willingness to compromise on important legislation.

What's more is that MN-08 is far more reliably Democratic on every level than either WI-07 or MI-01.

But I made a point to improve this district more than any in my version of a possible new map. Due to OCGoldy's fanatical attacks on any map that takes even a small amount of swingish to Democratic leaning territory out of Colin Peterson's district, even going so far as to say that Peterson, who has always won with 70% of the vote and whom is among the most conservative Democrats in Congress, could not win if Beltrami was taken out of this 50-49 Democratic district. Anyway, because of that criticism, I couldn't due what I wanted and make one giant new district stretching from Duluth through Beltrami and up past the northern red river valley I believe you called it.

Instead I had to keep Chisago, Kannabec, Mille Lacs, Benton, and Crow Wing in. But it's struck me that all those combined don't come close to outweighing St. Louis County, not to mention Carlton, Koochining and Itasca. But I removed Isanti, and filled the districts population quota with Democratic leaning and trending college town, St. Cloud.

But again, you seem to always have this super-pessimistic take on Democrats in MN. Oberstar won't have trouble, especially not if he starts running ads. Is MN really even close to being the highest taxed state?  


[ Parent ]
Hard To Say What Minnesota's Trendline Is....
Since 2002, it's clearly been trending Democratic, but in the post-Bush era I'm not sure which direction things will go.  The bellwether regions of the state are now second-ring suburbs of the Twin Cities (Bloomington, Coon Rapids, Eagan) which are demographically the kinds of places that have only moved to Democrats out of antipathy to the Bush agenda of the last decade.  They're still fiscally conservative and are an awkward fit for the Democratic Party because of it.  Long-term, my projection is that the nation's political fault line will divide almost exclusively on generational and racial/ethnic lines, and if I'm correct on that, will put a state like Minnesota firmly into "red state" status.

I highly doubt that Stupak would have been re-elected after pissing off both groups on the abortion culture war with his botched "principled stand" on the health care bill.  

Margaret Anderson Kelliher said in the primary that Dayton's tax plan would make Minnesota the highest taxed state in the nation.  There's probably basis of truth in it using some metric.

With redistricting, I think the best arrangement for northern Minnesota would be to give Collin Peterson most of St. Cloud back to make up for population loss in his existing district lines.  Oberstar's district won't need to add nearly as many voters as Peterson's, so giving him Benton County in addition to his current district should be enough.  I have a Minnesota district map in mind that would most likely make the state a 6-2 balance and render Bachmann unelectable.


[ Parent ]
Redistricting
I agree with you on that regard. Where St. Cloud ends up really depends on population, but it's easy to keep those 2 districts pretty much where they are with only fudging some lines and adding the rest of Stearns County.

You put Bachmann in with McCollum, didn't you? +1 if you did.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Yes, Sort Of.....
My ideal breakdown would be to split Ramsey County in half, giving MN-04 the city of St. Paul and most of Dakota County to its south, except for John Kline's Lakeville area.  It would be less Democratic than it is now, but still strongly DFL.

The new MN-06 would include all of Washington County, most of Anoka County, and northern Ramsey County.  It would be a battleground district, but I don't think Bachmann could win there.


[ Parent ]
I like your idea
but I'd move the line a little south, say, to Maryland Avenue.

I'd to the same thing in Hennipen County, too, with one district north of I-94/I-394 and one south. This would give us four solidly blue districts in the metro area.


[ Parent ]
Minneapolis/St. Paul
It is a wet dream of many on the left to split Minneapolis and St. Paul. It goes against the core of everything in the DFL, and they won't go for it. Since the powers that be want St. Paul to anchor the 4th and Minneapolis to anchor the 5th, it will never ever be considered. I can assure you of that.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
I'm sure there are a few
who would like the map to conform to the reality of 1950, rather than the reality of 2010, but of course it will be considered. Why? The people drawing the map would become likely candidates for the new seats. It's their chance of a lifetime.

[ Parent ]
The problem with that
is that young voters in MN are quite liberal.

[ Parent ]
There is a very big divide in Twin City suburbs
Been working on a project and now i just need to paint by color the maps and do a write-up.  But as a preview, you have suburbs that are more upper middle class and 3rd ring where the margins for Bush grew in 2004 while the state as a whole voted 1% less for him while you have the more upper class 2nd ring burbs that trended away from the GOP through the whole decade.

[ Parent ]
You're the Minnesotan
so I'll take your word for it about Dayton's and Oberstar's chances, but I will quibble with the characterization of what happened in MI-01 and WI-07 as "running for the hills."

Stupak did something colossally silly and managed to draw the wrath of BOTH pro-choice AND pro-life camps with his eponymous amendment, costing himself likely (not certain) re-election.  Benishek (or Allen) may or may not have posed an intimidating threat to Stupak-as-incumbent; we'll never know because Stupak fatally wounded himself before the Republicans even took a shot.

However, there is no way Dave Obey is or was afraid of Sean Duffy.  None at all.  He's 72, he's spent 41 years in Washington (longer than Duffy's been alive!) and he's accomplished what he could there - which, by the way, is a whole lot of good.


[ Parent ]
I wouldn't believe him...
I was born and raised in the 8th, and Oberstar wouldn't lose of Jesus himself ran as a Republican. The "L" in DFL is explicitly for Iron Rangers. There is no bench up there, and is locally VERY Democratic.  

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Have You Been Tracking The Numbers Coming South Of Grand Rapids And Moose Lake Recently?
They're bad and getting worse for Democrats....and they're gaining population as quickly as the Iron Range is losing population.  It's a slower-motion demographic shift than other places, such as PA-12 for instance, but it's a demographic shift nonetheless.

[ Parent ]
Grand Rapids.
You are alluding to Grand Rapids as shifting, and certainly Itasca County is not. If you are talking about Aitkin County, who cares? The population center isn't there, and it is a 50/50 county at worst. That, and the population is tiny compared to St. Louis County. Until you see massive shifts in St Louis county, it would take percentages moving to the Republicans everywhere else because of the lopsided population difference.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
I Said The Area South of Grand Rapids Is Shifting....
Not Grand Rapids itself.  Aitkin County is part of that but primarily I was referring to the general Brainerd and Mille Lacs area.  My reference point was all points south of Grand Rapids and Moose Lake in MN-08 becoming considerably more Republican.  In 1970, St. Louis represented more than half of the population in MN-08.  By 2010, it will represent less than 30% of MN-08.  Over time, St. Louis County's margins for Democrats will be overtaken by the GOP margins in the district's south side.

[ Parent ]
Ah. I understand what you're saying
Those are center-right areas in Mille Lacs, Crow Wing, et. al.

Remember, Obama underperformed Generic-D in Northern Minnesota (It's a racial thing, which saddens me). Franken won the area by more than Obama did despite performing 10 points less overall statewide. Even with Obama's ho-hum showing in '08, the margins of the counties in question were as follows:

Crow Wing- McCain by 3700
Mille Lacs- McCain by less than 1000
Kanabec- McCain by less than 700
Morrison- McCain by 3200

St. Louis County- Obama by 39,000!
Obama also cruised by 10-20% in Cook, Lake, Itasca, and Koochaching

I know that the long term trends of the former counties to the south are edging Republican by a few percent. But with St. Louis going by 2:1 for Democrats, it drowns out any noise in the southern part of the district. This may be an issue down the road, but that can be reevaluated in the 2021 Redistricting.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
2021, EXACTLY
That's what Ive been thinking with this distrct; absolutely nothing will happen where we wont be able to hold this district until the 2020 census when we can start evaluating what to do.

And by that point, Peterson will be gone and we just make a super DFL all northern district and be done with it.


[ Parent ]
It saddens me
to think that the (current) 8th district will go to the North Dakota border. And I will fight tooth and nail to see that it doesn't happen this redistricting cycle. However, a lot can happen in 10 years, and come the 2020 census, I will have to reevaluate my position on this, and everything else. a decade is a LIFETIME in political terms.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Basically, there are three alternatives
1. Expand west to the North Dakota line.
2. Expand south into increasingly Rethug suburbs/exurbs.
3. Obviously this is remote, but if the following happen, (1) Clark beats Bachmann in 2010 and (2) Oberstar retires in 2012--he'll be 78, MN-08 could be redrawn to include St. Cloud and Clark could run for reelection there.

Since #3 is such a long shot, I'd take the first one.


[ Parent ]
1, 2, 3.
1: Should not happen, and outstate DFLers will not go along with the plan, which makes it DOA

2: I don't see the 8th going further south than the current Isanti border, which it doesn't have to.

3: Why only if Clark wins? You could put St. Cloud in the 8th without her. Clark would be primaried and lose to Tony Sertich, or any other Iron Range DLF challenger. The population base would not stand for a St. Cloud based Representative. Adding St. Cloud to the 8th isn't a terrible idea though.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
I've never been a fan of voting for or against someone
on the basis of geography. Besides, with St. Louis County continuing population loss while the rest of the state is growing, it now has enough people for just 30% of a congressional district, assuming an 8-district map. I wouldn't rule out Clark's chances.

[ Parent ]
Given The Population Growth On The South Side Of MN-08....
....I can't imagine why the district would be more inclined to absorb St. Cloud next year than MN-07 which desperately needs it.  I say Benton County, perhaps not even all of it, should be enough for the reconfiguration...unless you want to forfeit existing MN-08 territory for the sole purpose of inheriting St. Cloud which doesn't make sense to me.

[ Parent ]
I Can't Imagine St. Cloud Moving To MN-08
It's MN-07 that will desperately need a huge insurgence of people in its new configuration.  There is no more obvious choice than giving Peterson back St. Cloud.  Meanwhile, MN-08 shouldn't need much new territory in its current configuration given its population growth, unless of course Minnesota loses a Congressional district.  I think if MN-08 inherited back Benton County, which is effectively the east side of St. Cloud and the rural area surrounding it, that would be all the new territory the district would need and would not alter the district's PVI by much.

[ Parent ]
At least one of the rural districts....
... has to go border to border, why not the 8th? Not saying that is the way I would go but is difference between the Iron Range and NW Minnesota any greater than the difference between Rochester and the lightly populated counties of SW Minnesota? With most of rural Minnesota losing population you are going to have vast districts that encompass different communities of interest. I don't see a border to border northern district as being unreasonable at all.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
The 1st
The first works perfectly well for Walz. Why screw that up? running the 8th from East To West would almost assuredly doom Peterson. I know some people here think he is the Devil himself, but the same people here defend Democrats that are more conservative than him in districts more friendly than the 7th. Removing the northern part of the 7th, in addition to taking Peterson's house out of the district all together, would give him by FAR the most conservative district in the state, and he would be running for reelection in areas that are unfamiliar with him. He would lose, and be replaced by someone that makes Bachmann look sane. The 7th you guys are envisioning is WAY more conservative than Bachmann's 6th. It is a bad idea, and it won't get passed through the DFL Legislature.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
You can easily draw a border to border Northern District...
.... that does not include Peterson's home (Detroit Lakes) and that does not change the character of the 7th that much IMO.  

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
How?
You're taking away the area that Peterson has represented from the beginning, back when there were 4 outstate districts. What areas do you replace the population of Beltrami, Lake of The Woods, Roseau, etc? There is no place to expand without fundamentally changing the makeup of the district? Either you take away The counties that absolutely LOVE Tim Walz, or you give him the most conservative counties in the state. Either way you're unnecessarily putting Walz in danger one way or another, or making Peterson's district R+10. Besides, even if you COULD come up with such a map, why would you? There are 3 rural districts in Minnesota represented by 3 safe Democrats. Don't screw with something that works. Republicans learned that lesson with their Pennsylvania redistricting in 2000. No need to repeat such mistakes.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
It Would Unnecessarily Centralize DFL Voters
....into a far northern MN district and make what's left of northern Minnesota virtually impossible to hold.  Extending MN-08 to the Dakota border would be a kamikaze mission for Democrats, especially since the brightest stars to replace Peterson in MN-07 are in the district's far northwestern reaches....like Kent Eken of District 2A in the State House.

[ Parent ]
Side note.
I BELIEVE that Amy Klobuchar won every single county in MN-8. I haven't double checked that claim, but I am about 80% certain she carried them all.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Correct...Klobuchar Won Every County in MN-08....
Beyond that, I don't believe race was an outsized influence in the 2008 Presidential electio in MN-08.  I believe McCain's monopolization of ad buys in the Minneapolis-St. Paul and Duluth media markets was.  McCain dominated Minnesota airwaves the entire fall while Obama took for granted that he'd win Minnesota and distributed his resources elsewhere.  

Take a look at the dividing line was into northwestern Wisconsin where Obama scored margins massively higher than Kerry in 2004.  I'm doubtful that voters in MN-08 are any more racist than those in WI-07 and WI-08 where Obama dominated, I just think they saw so much more of Obama and so much less of McCain in Wausau and Green Bay media markets that it made the decision easier for low-information voters.  It really shows the power of advertising in my opinion.  Suddenly Green Bay, Wisconsin, and Fargo, North Dakota, both deluged with Obama ads, were a comfortable shade of blue while the Obama hung on by a mere six votes in the Mondale county of Aitkin County, Minnesota, who saw almost exclusively McCain ads.


[ Parent ]
Map
(Note that the colors are reversed.)

http://uselectionatlas.org/RES...


[ Parent ]
I Keep Forgetting Wadena County Is Now In MN-08...
Since it is, I guess that means Kennedy won one county in the district.

Some counties I never thought I'd see go Democrat in a statewide election in my lifetime fell in 2006, including Brown County (New Ulm) and McLeod County (Hutchinson).  I'll be curious to see what she's capable of in her re-election effort.  Pretty impressive that her approval ratings are still in the 57% range given the current toxic political climate.


[ Parent ]
You May Be Right About Obey's Motives....
....but in a state where seemingly untouchable Russ Feingold is now poised to lose by double-digits this year to a plastics manufacturer who believes global warming is caused by sunspots, I disagree that Obey wasn't gonna be felled by Duffy.

[ Parent ]
he retired for some reason
and I firmly believe "accomplishing all that he wanted to do" is not it.

[ Parent ]
Murtha & Wilson
Obey was very close to Rep. Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania, who died on February 8th and ex-Rep. Charlie Wilson of Texas, who died on February 10th.

When you're over 70 and you lose two close friends back-to-back, that can cause you to reassess things.


[ Parent ]
DFL and Horner
It doesn't seem like DFLers defecting to Horner is going to be a huge issue. The DFL is framing this as Dayton vs 2 Republicans, one normal(but not moderate, well maybe now he is because of the rightward shift) Republican and and one Tea Party Republican. In most years, the Independence Party candidate pulls more votes from the DFL but they are usually left of center. This year the it's a former Republican that frequently defended Pawlenty when invited onto MPR.

Also, I'm from MN-8 and I'm not sure what you mean by Duluth and the Iron Range representing a dwindling percentage of voters in MN-8. MN-8 is Duluth and the Iron Range so where are these Republican areas coming from? The districts does stretch down I35 towards the Cities but it doesn't get very close, there are only a handful of exurbs in Chisago County like North Branch.

One more thing, I've lived in Minnesota all of my life but what is the L?

21, Progressive Democrat, MN-08 (home), MN-05 (college)


[ Parent ]
I should add that all my life is only 20 years
so I probably mised things when I was younger and not paying attention to politics.

21, Progressive Democrat, MN-08 (home), MN-05 (college)

[ Parent ]
The "L"

is the rural, agricultural part of MN that stretches from Kittson/Roseau counties and south, to the Iowa border, and then east towards Winona.  It looks like the letter L if you draw a line.  The top part of the L tends to be more DFL-Friendly (You could say we put the "F" in the DFL.) with our state reps and senators being from the DFL, like Kent Eken, LeRoy Stumpf, etc.  The southern part of the L is much more Republican.  


[ Parent ]
Yes
The L very much makes up the "F", the Iron Range and Duluth make up the "L" and Minneapolis/St. Paul make up the "D". They are three distinct groups of people too. People from other places don't really grasp that concept all that well.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
I'll Put It This Way.....
....divide MN-08 into two.  First take the counties that constitute what's traditionally thought of as the Iron Range....St. Louis, Itasca, Lake, Cook, Carlton, and we'll throw in Koochiching.  Add up their populations from 1980, 1990, 2000, and when the information becomes available, 2010.

Next, take the counties from MN-08 that represent the rest of the district, including Isanti, Chisago, Mille Lacs, Kanabec, Pine, Morrison, Cass, Crow Wing, Aitkin, Hubbard, and Wadena.

I don't have the numbers available at this moment, but you will see double-digit population shrinkage in the first group and double-digit population gains in the second group.  The first group is slightly less Democratic than it was in 1980.  The second group is considerably less Democratic than it was in 1980....in most cases, not at all.  

It's not gonna happen overnight, but the district is gonna become a battleground.


[ Parent ]
WI-7 and MI-1
Dont have a big city like Duluth to rack up votes in.

[ Parent ]
General Agreement
I agree that Silver's analysis is probably not as accurate about Dayton's odds to win as they should be. However, I think a lot of that is just the volatility that arises whenever you throw a well-funded third party candidate with a resume into a race.

Third party candidates generally lose support as election day approaches, but there have been instances where they surge before election day (Ventura, Longley in the 70s in Maine). Although voters typically buy into the lesser of two evils idea by election day, every now and then we see a pox on both your houses mentality emerge.

But how could Silver's model predict something like that? Statistics can only go so far.

I believe it is important to note, for everyone speculating on where Horner's votes will come from, that as of this moment in time Horner pulls relatively equally from Emmer and Dayton. Of course, that is always subject to change; however, I wouldn't prematurely declare exactly where Horner is pulling from.

19, Male, libertarian Republican, TX-14 and MN-04


I disagree with your analysis of the 2006 race.
Hutchinson finished with just over 6% which is about where he was polling, there was no Hutchinson surge, whereas Mike Hatch was winning in every public poll in the last month but one, which showed a tie.

And then there was this: http://goo.gl/2qxe

Pawlenty winning had nothing to do with Hutchinson, it had everything to do with Mike Hatch's "Republican whore" comment a week before the election.

Also see: http://goo.gl/AsUY


You're Correct That Mike Hatch's Potty Mouth Was His Worst Enemy.....
...but Peter Hutchinson scored 10% of the vote in the DFL stronghold of Ramsey County, doing much better than that in some of the city's most liberal precincts.  If I remember correctly, Hutchinson's haul in Ramsey County alone was the difference between Hatch and Pawlenty.  My point was that Hutchinson's generally impressive showing in the debates made it possible for him to score those kinds of votes out of left-leaning areas and ultimately threw the election to Pawlenty.  I don't think liberal voters in St. Paul would have been any more likely to vote Hutchinson merely out of protest for Hatch than other regions of the state if not for the fact that they liked what they saw in Hutchinson.

[ Parent ]
Yes, but Hutchinson

was in the IP from having served in the DFL, in Rudy Perpich's administration.  Horner has never been affiliated with the DFL, and in fact was a Republican and an apologist for the Pawlenty administration until late.  If anything, Horner will sap votes from Emmer in the well-heeled suburbs that want to vote for a fiscal conservative that isn't a buffoon like Emmer.  

And like I have said before, I believe that Dayton will do better in the L then Hatch, denying Emmer precious votes he needs to blunt the Prettner Solon vote haul that Dayton will be bringing in.  

And, I just saw one of the latest Dayton ads, during the 6:00 p.m. news up here; not a thing from Emmer or Horner.  


[ Parent ]
The L
I dunno about that part about Dayton outdoing Hatch in the L. Hatch was from outstate, where as Dayton is an unapologetic city dweller.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Its the name, not the place

Dayton's name recognition is a significant advantage here; likewise, there's just silence from Emmer (and Horner) thusfar in the northern half of the L.    

[ Parent ]
The L's Really Hard to Predict This Year.
I suspect you're right that Dayton will own the Red River Valley.  He did very well there in 2000 even as Bush owned Gore in the area, and this year he has opposition that will be even more invisible in the region.  The rest of the L is likely to be similar to Hatch's performance with Dayton victories in the old Farmer-Labor strongholds like Swift County in west-central Minnesota and the usual scattering in southern Minnesota DFL strongholds like Freeborn and Mower Counties.  In general though, I don't think Dayton will overperform Hatch in the region.  Horner could play really well in a center-right place like Rochester, but even if he doesn't, I'm more likely to see Rochester voting for Emmer than Dayton on a year like this.

[ Parent ]
Rochester, and Southern MN

are always tough for the DFL.  But the Horner defections are most certainly going to sap Emmer.  Horner just announced support from Dave Bishop and Rod Searle, both Republicans from exactly that area.  Their endorsements won't sway the rabid parts of the GOP, but it will certainly drain Emmer of votes he is going to need greatly.    That's why, combined with Dayton's higher name recognition, he (Dayton) will do better in the L then we think.

I think its hard for us in the DFL to really appreciate how big a deal Horner is for the Republicans.  David Jennings (!) announced his support for Horner--this is almost a full scale rebellion in Republican terms.  


[ Parent ]
Lest We Not Forget
Horner's biggest enforcement, by FAR, is one of the only popular Republicans in the sate: Former governor Arne Carlson. Carlson is awesome, and as a loyal DFLer, I would honestly think twice before voting against him in any election, and I have never once pulled the lever for a Republican.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
It's All This Praise Being Lavished Upon Horner By Respected Center-Right Figures....
....that leads me to believe Horner still has the potential to do big things this election.  If in the final week he's still below 20%, I may then write him off.  Until then, I think there's still time for an upset.

[ Parent ]
Rochester Has Come a Long Way This Past Decade.....
...and Olmsted County officially crossed the threshold into Obamaland in 2008.  I didn't think I'd ever see the day that would happen considering even Bob Dole won the county in 1996.  And of course two years before that, Rochester went comfortably for Tim Walz over hometown boy Gil Gutknecht.  Yet Pawlenty still scored big there in 2006 so that tells me Rochester trended more anti-Bush than anti-Republican, and that calculus is exactly the reason I think Horner has great potential there.

The best barometer for youth turnout this year will be Blue Earth County, Nicollet County, and Winona County, where the youth vote in local colleges cranked up Democratic margins in the last two election cycles in comparison to 2002 where Norm Coleman beat Mondale in two out of the three counties.  If Dayton doesn't win in those three counties, it probably means the young people stayed home and it will also mean few Democratic victories in southern Minnesota, which could have an impact down the ballot and in the legislature.

Speaking of down the ballot, I'm also very concerned that all three DFL constitutional office holders (Mark Ritchie, Rebecca Otto, and Lori Swanson) could be in big trouble.  All three benefitted from a Democratic rout at the top of the ticket in 2006, but those same three offices took it on the chin in 2002, as the Independence and Green Parties dramatically overperformed.  I expect that calculus again this year with the anti-incumbent sentiment.....with alot of DFL voters deciding to cast a third-party protest vote and allowing the Republicans to slip in with 43% pluralities that way Pat Anderson (Awada) did in 2002.  Those races are always hard to predict but the DFL affiliation that helped them in 2006 seems far less likely to this year.


[ Parent ]
Barden is a non-entity

so I think Swanson will be fine.  

Otto has been the only one that I have seen that has done anything close to that think we call "campaigning" in the auditor's race, but Ritchie, not sure.  Thankfully Severson is just so amazingly inept.  

I think I just fundamentally disagree that we'll see that much DFL defection this year.  The IP top ticket (Horner) was never affiliated with the DFL and his most significant endorsements are causing the GOP to undergo the political version of a hot-oil wrestling match.  Yes, Horner will get some DFL votes, but unless the DFL rank and file has become suicidal, I think we all realize, it is now or never.  In speaking with a lot of dejected MAK supporters after the primary, I think its hard to get excited about Dayton, but a vote against the nominee would be out of the question.  

That being said, it would be a dangerous mistake to just ignore Horner.  


[ Parent ]
No Republican
Not one, as won so much as 50% in ANY statewide race in Minnesota in over 15 years. Unless the IP is running strong candidates for Auditor, AG, and Treasurer, I think Swanson, Richie, and Otto are safe. I have heard absolutely nothing about any of these races, and races where that's the case tend to favor 2 groups: 1) the incumbent, and 2) the "default" party, which in Minnesota tends to be DFL. I honestly think those 3 are safe.  

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
Rochester is changing
Rochester is growing at twice the rate of the rest of the state. It is becoming more urban and the population is getting more diverse as the Mayo Clinic attracts people from around the world (Rochester has more doctors per capita than any city in the US). While I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a step back towards the Republicans this year I think the long term trend is towards team blue.

"Where free Unions and collective bargaining is forbidden, freedom is lost." - Ronald Reagan

[ Parent ]
If Dayton can hold down Hatch's margins in the L
then he wins, period.  The GOP wont be able to consolidate the vote nearly enough in the suburbs to overcome this.

And I have never heard of this region called the L and I love that it has a name.  It's really simple to explain where the DFL comes from too now, F from the "L" region, L in the Iron Range, and D in the Twin Cities.


[ Parent ]
Are You Familiar With The History Of The Farmer-Labor Party?
And its late 1940s merger with the Democrats?  Just curious.

[ Parent ]
Hubert Humphrey
In 1943, Humphrey was the Democratic candidate for mayor of Minneapolis and lost.

In 1944, Humphrey organized the merger of the Democratic and Farmer-Labor parties.

In 1945, Humphrey was the Democratic-Farmer-Labor candidate for mayor of Minneapolis and won.


[ Parent ]
Are You Familiar With The History Of The Farmer-Labor Party?
And its late 1940s merger with the Democrats?  Just curious.

[ Parent ]
Just what I learned from Wikipedia
Farmer-Labor populism dominated in the 1930's during the Great Depression, we came out of that and the Republicans started doing too well so Humphrey got the Democrats and the Farmer-Labor Party to become the DFL.

Wonder if there is a book on the whole thing as they'd be a really informative read.  And if there isnt, someone better write it quick before all the people who lived during this time die from old age.


[ Parent ]
There Were A Few More Things Worth Mentioning....
The Farmer-Labor party was, for all intents and purposes, the Socialist Party.  Their party doctrine was very much in keeping with Marxist philosophies and party leaders even had some ties with the Soviets.  In the late 1940s, Socialism was a four-letter word in the early throes of the Cold War and the Farmer-Labor Party was poised to become obsolete, and that was the point in which Humphrey commandeered the merger.

Also, the geographical origins of the Farmer-Labor Party, and the home of its most successful politicians including Governor Elmer Benson, was in west-central Minnesota.  If you've ever been curious why farm counties near the South Dakota border like Big Stone, Lac qui Parle, and especially Swift remain so consistently Democratic today, it's because of the leftist history in the region tied to farm populism.


[ Parent ]
Ive always wondered about that patch of blue
Figured it was just tradition that stuck around which I guess was right on.

Any idea about the SE corner of the state?  Or hell, maybe the SW corner is the one more worth talking about as they stick out like a sore thumb.  These SW counties do make up some of the most German-heritage heavy areas in the state compared west-central and SE and I read a great blog post talking about German populated areas and them being the most Republican parts in the Midwest.  (NW Iowa which gives us Stephen King, Stearns county and the surrounding areas giving us Michele Bachmann.)


[ Parent ]
Southwest Minnesota Has Three Dominant Ethnic Heritages....
Republican-dominated Redwood, Brown, and Lyon Counties are some of the most heavily German areas in the country.  If Lyon County didn't have the college town of Marshall, it would be as Republican as Redwood and Brown are.

Murray, Nobles, and Jackson Counties were Democratic strongholds 20 years ago but have slowly been slipping away.  The Irish make up the plurality of the population there, and just as Irish Catholics have been slipping away from Democrats in recent elections, they have in this region as well.  Furthermore, as the older populist farmers die off in these counties, the population dwindles and the region becomes more Republican.  Worthington has all kinds of Hispanics but is still much more Republican than it was 25 years ago because most of the local whites were heavily influenced by the union when they worked at the meatpacking plant.  Today's Worthington meatpacking workers are by and large not citizens and thus ineligible to vote.

As for Pipestone and Rock Counties in the state's southwestern corner, they have a large Dutch population.  The northwestern corner of Iowa you alluded to Dutch, not German, and the Dutch are far and away the most conservative ethnic group in the Midwest.  I'd guess the Dutch population in Pipestone and Rock Counties is about 25-30% Dutch (compared to about 75% Dutch in Sioux County, IA, and well over half in Lyon, Osceola, and O'Brien Counties in IA).  Pipestone County in particular would be politically competitive if not for the Dutch strongholds on the county's south side, particularly the town of Edgerton.  The Dutch are unmovably Republican in every election and as such I can't imagine a scenario where a Democrat of any stripe will ever win an election in the county.

As for southeastern Minnesota, the red counties are generally German dominated, including Waseca, Steele, and Dodge, and historically Olmsted County up until its recent demographic shift.  Competitive counties like Goodhue and Wabasha are divided between Republican Germans and Democratic Scandinavians.  Winona County is German and historically Republican but the university culture has transformed it into a Democratic town.

As for the blue counties, Rice County is Democratic because of uber-liberal Northfield, the college town.  Freeborn and Mower Counties are, respectively, Norwegian and Irish, but their Democratic tendencies are the result of their long-standing union ties.  Fillmore County is most Norwegian and Houston County is mostly German, but their mutual trendline to Democrats is mostly due to the fact that the farmers in the area are switching to organic, which lends itself to a Democratic constituency.  Much of the same things are going on in the last decade in northeastern Iowa and southwestern Wisconsin, which has occurred in unison to those regions' shift to Democrats.


[ Parent ]
I just don't know where you're getting this Hutchinson surge idea from.
Looking at all the polls done in the last month of the campaign Hutchinson was at 7,7,6,9,4,7,8 for an average of 6.85%. He finished at 6.43%, so pretty much exactly what he'd been polling at the whole time.

Just because he did well in Ramsey county doesn't mean that was the result of any surge, he made a name for himself as a politician and businessman in the Twin Cities after all, so it's hardly surprising he did somewhat better there then overall.

You might be right that if Hutchinson wasn't in the race Hatch wins, but maybe not. You can't say that 100% of Hutchinson's vote would have gone to Hatch and for Hatch to win he would have had to get 67.5% of those votes which may or may not have happened.

This is all irrelevant though, averaging out all the polls in the last month gives you 45.5 for Hatch, 42.5 for Pawlenty and 6.85 for Hutchinson. So if anyone surged at the end it was Pawlenty, not Hutchinson and this was most likely because of Hatch's public blowup which drove undecided voters to Pawlenty.


[ Parent ]
I may be the only with you thinks Horner could really surge
The Strib is clearly going to endorse him; it's almost a given.  That paper hasnt run a single news article (unless I missed on a weekend edition) that is negative about his budget plan when one lovely MN blog did the math and showed Horner's plan actually creates more of a budget deficit than fixes one.  He's getting off the hook because Emmer is a scary extremist, which makes it easy to paint Dayton as one as well.

If Horner had the money, I would predict a giant surge in the last weeks and an outright win.  Dayton has been very effectively painted as an extremist because he has been so bold about his opinions.  His opinions are very basic DFL liberal which just goes to show how marketing can affect overall conception.

My opinion is so far in favor in Horner gaining in the polls that I think he has a better shot at winning than Emmer.  People here are downright terrified of what he would do to this state.  We voted by a double digit margin to raise our sales tax two months after all the banks went down in 2008 to raise our sales tax for the environment and arts, we'll sure as shit be supportive of raising taxes for education and health care.

But, the DFLers are much more excited about finally electing a DFL governor that I think there are a lot fewer DFLers Horner could win over versus GOPers, which is what gives us the edge here even with a late Horner surge.


Handicapping MN-Gov | 85 comments

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