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OH-Gov, OH-Sen: The Suckeye State

by: Crisitunity

Fri Sep 17, 2010 at 4:32 PM EDT


Quinnipiac (9/9-14, likely voters, 6/22-27 (RVs) in parens):

Ted Strickland (D-inc): 37 (43)
John Kasich (R): 54 (38)
Undecided: 7 (15)
(MoE: ±3.6%)

Quinnipiac (9/9-14, likely voters, 6/22-27 (RVs) in parens):

Lee Fisher (D): 35 (42)
Rob Portman (R): 55 (40)
Undecided: 9 (17)
(MoE: ±3.6%)

Given that every other pollster has seen a very bumpy ride for Democrats as they make the transition from a registered voter model to a likely voter model, I was already expecting a steep drop for the Dems in Quinnipiac's Ohio polling (they're the last of the major pollsters to make the switch to LVs). But, dang, that is one unbelievably steep drop, not consistent with the 5-point-ish RV-to-LV difference seen elsewhere (including Qpac's Connecticut polling this week, or PPP's latest round of Ohio polling). Take the Senate race, for example: I have absolutely zero doubt that Lee Fisher is trailing in reality, and probably by at least 10, but the 20-point reversal plus these favorables suggest a decidedly GOP-ish sample (Fisher 29/36, Portman 44/20, and Obama 38/60).

SurveyUSA for WCMH (9/10-13, likely voters, no trendlines):

Ted Strickland (D-inc): 40
John Kasich (R): 52
Other: 5
Undecided: 3

Lee Fisher (D): 40
Rob Portman (R): 49
Other: 7
Undecided: 4
(MoE: ±4%)

Opinion Research for CNN/Time (9/16, likely voters, no trendlines):

Ted Strickland (D-inc): 44
John Kasich (R): 51
Undecided: 1

Lee Fisher (D): 41
Rob Portman (R): 52
Undecided: 2
(MoE: ±3.5%)

I hate to be that guy who cherrypicks polls, but SurveyUSA and particularly CNN/Time's polls seem more plausible here. Neither of them have trendlines, but CNN/Time is instructive because it looks at an RV model as well as an LV model. Among registered voters, they find Kasich leading 49-46 (a 4-point variance from the LV model) and Portman leading 49-42 (a 3-point variance). That's much more consistent with usual enthusiasm gap findings, so it's a good bet to assume that the Republicans are "only" leading in the 7-11 point range. Yay!

Well, Ted Strickland knows how to fight back. He rolled out an internal poll showing a 3-point lead... for John Kasich?!? (It's from the Feldman Group, and the toplines are 48-45). Given the Raul Labrador rule, and on top of that, the fact that Strickland is the incumbent, that internal poll doesn't leave me feeling any more confident than before. The Strickland camp is rolling out two new ads and is also benefiting from a huge AFL-CIO direct mail blitz on their behalf, but given the national climate, it looks like money alone isn't going to fix these races.

Crisitunity :: OH-Gov, OH-Sen: The Suckeye State
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Hate the polls.
Love the title of the diary.

34, WM, Democrat, FL-11

SSP
home to a love-hate relationship with polls. SUSA has been maligned and raked through the coals just as Rasmussen has. However, either you accept their methodology or you do not.  

Nonsense
When three or more polls all say one thing and one stands alone saying something else then it is obvious which is wrong. Unless the stand alone is PPP.

[ Parent ]
This is false.
n/t

[ Parent ]
Nope
That is false.

[ Parent ]
suckeye is right
What we're seeing here in Ohio is a democratic base that is becoming quite dispirited.  That's the main problem, and for the longest time, the situation here was actually looking quite good compared to other states in the region, like Michigan, Illinois, and Pennsylvania.  Well, now it's our time to pay the piper, and it sucks.  

The strangest thing is, I figured all along that the governor's race would be the main event, pitting the two relatively strong pols against one another, and that it would drive turnout.  But now the Senate race is moving more into the spotlight, and I think that Fisher's suckiness is starting to rub off on Strickland a bit.  Ted is fighting his ass off to keep the governor's mansion, and outside groups are starting to get involved as well.  The ODP has been working well with the Strickland campaign, and I get the feeling that the ground operation there is going to be pretty strong just as it was in 2006.  Fisher on the other hand, is a mess.  He's been a mess ever since the primary campaign, and I don't want to hear the same tired excuse that Brunner drained his funds.  Even if Fisher was a rich, self funder, the bottom line is that he is a cold, clammy, old guard pol that is extremely unpopular among base voters, especially the young ones that so fervently supported Barack Obama in 2008.  

The situation is such for Fisher that he's looking at losing Montgomery County (Dayton) and Franklin County (Columbus) outright.  That is pathetically bad for any statewide democrat in Ohio.  

23, Male, Democrat, OH-13


what's not to be dispirited about?
High unemployment and no sign jobs are coming back.

[ Parent ]
Dems lose Franklin County
I predict both statewide candidates lose Franklin County.  

23, male, center-right cynical Republican, PA-7

[ Parent ]
You've nailed it....
Lee Fisher is dragging everyone down...

[ Parent ]
Not pretty numbers at all
We could lose all the levers of redistricting control if things keep up like this.

It's a Good Thing It's Happy Hour
With numbers like that ... pass the bourbon.

Would Brunner have the
populist appeal that Fisher doesn't? and would she have been as far down as he is?

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

See: Ving Bernero in MI
just even LESS money and a larger, more expensive state.

26, Male, Democrat, TX-26

[ Parent ]
Virg Bernero vs Fisher/Brunner
I can't speak for Ohio, but Virg Bernero's biggest problem really isn't money; someone is running attack ads on his behalf.

His biggest problems are that Snyder is a strong (or at least Teflon) candidate, and that Virg's own base would largely have been happier with someone else, or at least None Of The Above.  I doubt Bernero will (or even could) become more trusted in the next few weeks, but Snyder's appeal could certainly evaporate.


[ Parent ]
Remember...
how during the spring and early summer Strickland (and to a lesser extent, Fisher) was leading or tied in most polls that were not Rasmussen? What happened to that? Did Strickland mess up somehow, or Rasmussen just the only one with a pulse on the real likely voter universe?

(Of course, Strickland was leading for most of '09 as well, but so were a lot of people and that lead had appeared to be gone in late '09 early '10 IIRC...)  

22, Democrat, AZ-01
Peace. Love. Gabby.


Times have changed
The economy has gotten worse instead of better, and people who expected in the spring that things would turn around by this time are now disappointed that it did not. Fairly or not, Obama (nationally) and Strickland (locally) are getting blamed for Ohio's continued economic woes, it's dragging down the whole ticket, and it may clean out Driehaus, Kilroy, Boccieri, Space, Sutton, and Wilson if things don't bounce back or at least level off by Nov. 2nd.

20, CD MA-03/NH-01/MA-08

[ Parent ]
Ohio's economy has been in the tank for 4 straight cycles now......
Ohio was thought lost for Bush in the final weeks because of the bad economy and the state GOP's unpopularity.  But Bush proved to have what was the best campaign in history to that point and saved it and saved his party at the same time.

The economy was still a disaster in 2006, and Dems finally toppled some of the state GOP.

The Dem wave was really a 2-cycle all along, so more Democratic gains in 2008 to finish what they started in 2006.

Now in 2010, still no improvement, so they give the GOP yet another shot at it.

Partisan politics aside, when will things ever get better for poor Ohio?  They've never really modernized their economy for the 21st century, it's like they just cling to the declining manufacturing base that can't be saved.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
2004 Ohio "election"
I am by no means convinced the Republicans legitimately won a thing in Ohio in 2004, when there were conveniently almost no polling booths in heavily Democratic areas, so that people were waiting over 8 hours in the rain, with some giving up, while people just walked into the polling booths in heavily Republican areas. And that's not counting all the shenanigans with provisional ballots, etc., etc. (including quite a lot of illegal caging, I seem to recall). Remember, that was the Blackwell/Diebold election.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  


[ Parent ]
Kasich
Kasich has been underestimated from the start.  I always thought he was the perfect candidate this year as he has one of the best budget-balancing records in politics.  The only question is, do the national Dems keep spending here so as to prop up the down-ticket races, or do they realized that it's toast and put their money other places.

43 - Male - GOP/Libertarian - FL 22

[ Parent ]
releasing the internal was the right thing to do
Ideally, you wouldn't release an internal showing your opponent ahead, but they couldn't let a 17-point lead for the Republican drive the media narrative. At that point the race is basically over.

It would be cherry picking
To hang your hat on Quinnipiac when Rasmussen is in the same ballpark as SurveyUSA and Ipsos but it hardly matters except perhaps for the possible effect on House races.

The scary thing is, we may lose the House based on OH and PA alone
Those two states are such disaster zones for Dems right now they could easily be the difference between keeping the House and losing it.  

Dems are going to lose the House
There is no way around it.  If the Dems lose 8 seats in Pennsylvania and Ohio combined, they lose the House.  Someone told me such a notion was nuts two months ago.  The Democrats are actually very lucky.  

The loses in Pennsylvania could be far worse.  Right now, PA-7, PA-11, PA-3 and PA-8 would probably fall and PA-10 is right on the edge.  PA-4, PA-17 and PA-12 could have been in play too.

The loses in Ohio could be worse too.  Right now, OH-1, OH-15 and OH-16 are probably gone while OH-18 is on the edge and OH-5 is leaning there.  

23, male, center-right cynical Republican, PA-7


[ Parent ]
OH-5?
I assume you mean OH-6, Wilson's seat?

[ Parent ]
I meant OH-13
I actually meant OH-13.  I was looking at its PVI which is D+5.

23, male, center-right cynical Republican, PA-7

[ Parent ]
I'm amazed at your certainty


[ Parent ]
13 seats bewteen the two of them
PA 3
PA 4
PA 7
PA 8
PA 10
PA 11
PA 12

OH 1
OH 6
OH 13
OH 15
OH 16
OH 18

I don't expect Altmire or Wilson to flip, and Space, Sutton, and Critz still have to be considered the favorite. However, based on the Senate and Governor numbers in each state, that's 8 seats which called be a toss-up or worse for Democrats.  


[ Parent ]
Well,
those in Ohio may go from having almost 100% Democratic control in statewide offices to solely Sherrod Brown!

And the DSCC needs to give up in Ohio. It's that simple. If Fisher is down by 11, they can redirect to New Hampshire, or Kentucky or Missouri, where they are probably closer. OH-01, OH-15, and OH-16 are gone. I'm pretty sure Space is going to win. OH-13 is the only district that is in the "tossup" area right now.


28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26


By my most recent house rankings
The democrats are dropping the following seats in PA and OH:

PA-3
PA-7
PA-10
PA-11
OH-1
OH-15

Arguably, I probably should've had OH-16 falling as well, but I totally discredited the WAA poll that had Renacci up 14 on basis of a ridiculous sample.  (84% of respondents were 50+ age)  

PA-8 is a dead heat.  OH-18 should arguably be a GOP pickup but Space has had relatively good numbers most of the way (although that certainly could have changed in the past 2-3 weeks)  Those two seats would make it 9.  I don't see any other seats falling.  PA-4 and PA-17 aren't going anywhere.  Neither is OH-6.  OH-13 could possibly fall, but if it does, we're talking about a 65-70 seat tsunami.

Hey, did anybody notice the generic ballot average is down to Repubicans +3.5?  That's not so bad...snark

23, Male, Democrat, OH-13


No one seat means that we are nearing a certain amount of seats lost.
No, I take that back. If we are losing seats like PA-13 (Schwartz), and NY-02 (Israel), maybe we are looking at 90 seats lost.

OH-13 has a PVI of D+5, NY-20 has a PVI of R+2, and AL-02 has a PVI of R+16.

But the chance that a seat flips goes: OH-13, AL-02, NY-20.  

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26


[ Parent ]
I vehemently disagree
that OH-13 is more likely to flip than AL-2.  There's more I want to say about it, but the fact is that it's my home district against yours, so we'll leave it at that.

23, Male, Democrat, OH-13

[ Parent ]
I was basing it off the most recent polling... Republican internal or not.
Sutton +2, and Bright +10. (or was it 9?)

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
I predict that the Dems completely abandon Ohio....
...for the next 10 years just like they did in 1994.  the state of the Ohio Democratic party before Strickland was absolutely dismal.  

Brown not being
reelected in 2012?

Clinton won it in 1996...

I could see where you are right. Who, besides Zack Space, who's going to win this year, could be a candidate for higher office?

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26


[ Parent ]
Tim Ryan
Is often mentioned.  

[ Parent ]
Clinton won by default....
...'cos Perot sucked in so many Ohio voters.  the party apparatus was already extremely weak, and pretty much nonexistent by the time his presidency ended.  2004, ironically enough, was the year that the Dem party started rebuilding and used those gains for the big gains in 2006.

[ Parent ]
If Obama is re-elected
He will win Ohio.

[ Parent ]
I don't think so
Ohio is moving away from Democrats when so many other places have moved towards them. He has a much better chance of winning Virginia and North Carolina again than he does at holding Ohio.

The map has changed to the point where he can lose the big battleground states and still win. For example, losing OH and FL in addition to IN and NE-02 gives him:

Obama: 301
Republican: 237


20, CD MA-03/NH-01/MA-08


[ Parent ]
I think so
Obama at this point wins only if the economy recovers and/or the GOP House screws up and begins a gov't shutdown.  But if these things were to happen, Obama would win big, bigger than 2008, and he'd probably carry Ohio with it.

38, male, conservative Republican, TX-3 currently (IL-13)

[ Parent ]
That would be a huge mistake
Democrats can't just abandon a state that size.

[ Parent ]
Yes they can.
If both the governors office and senate office is down by double digits, and we could possibly save Feingold, Boxer, Murray, and Bennet, then we should.

OH-01 and OH-15 are already gone. OH-16 is probably gone but there's been no polling here. OH-13 is the only district that may be a takeover that already isn't if the Democrats leave the state.


28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26


[ Parent ]
I was referring to the "for the next 10 years" part
There's also OH-06 and OH-18. I wouldn't take either for granted.

[ Parent ]
Who's the Republican running in OH-06?
I'm pretty sure Zack Space will win OH-18, even if Strickland and Fisher are losing by 15 points on election night

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26

[ Parent ]
This guy
http://www.billjohnsonleads.co...

Generic Republican Businessman Type, but he has raised a decent amount of money.  


[ Parent ]
My brother is finishing his degree in Ohio this year...
and over the past 5 years the decline is visible. The economy has been stagnant for a while but this recent recession killed a lot business and jobs that were just hanging on. Voters have short memories in Ohio. The economy has been tanking terribly the past 2 years. Therefore the democrats are going to absorb all that blame.  

You are right about the visible decline...
You can literally "see" it... I can understand where people thought the Bush years were better economically... even though, they laid the groundwork for the economic collapse.

[ Parent ]
Kasich 1993 economic predictions
Republicans including John Kasich attacked the new president's economic plans. They warned the new president would make the economy worse. John Kasich said "This plan will not work. If it was to work, then I'd have to become a Democrat." This was 1993. The president was Bill Clinton. Under Clinton's leadership the economy boomed. John Kasich - a partisan Republican who knows nothing about how the economy works. A Democratic org should be responsible for the content of this ad.
source

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

That would imply competance....
Strickland has been running a pretty bad campaign.  He's not the kind of guy one gets easily excited about, so coming from behind won't be easy for him.

[ Parent ]

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