Google Ads


Site Stats

PA-Sen, PA-Gov: Tight Senate Race, Corbett Leads for Governor

by: Crisitunity

Thu Oct 01, 2009 at 3:31 PM EDT


Quinnipiac (9/22-28, registered voters, 7/14-19 in parentheses):

Arlen Specter (D-inc): 42 (45)
Pat Toomey (R): 43 (44)
Don't know: 13 (10)

Joe Sestak (D): 35 (35)
Pat Toomey (R): 38 (39)
Don't know: 25 (23)
(MoE: ±3%)

Arlen Specter (D-inc): 44 (55)
Joe Sestak (D): 25 (23)
Don't know: 28 (19)
(MoE: ±?%)

Quinnipiac (9/21-28, registered voters, 7/14-19 in parentheses):

Dan Onorato (D): 28
Tom Corbett (R): 47
Don't know: 24

Jack Wagner (D): 29
Tom Corbett (R): 44
Don't know: 25
(MoE: ±3%)

Dan Onorato (D): 14 (16)
Joe Hoeffel (D): 12 (NA)
Jack Wagner (D): 11 (16)
Chris Doherty (D): 8 (NA)
Tom Knox (D): 5 (13)
Don't know: 46 (54)

Tom Corbett (R): 42 (38)
Jim Gerlach (R): 13 (15)
Don't know: 43 (37)
(MoE: ±4.5%)

Lots of data to look at from Quinnipiac, who look at the primary fields in both the Senate and Governor's races in Pennsylvania as well as head-to-head general election matchups in both races. The Senate race has both Sen. Arlen Specter and Rep. Joe Sestak neck-and-neck with ex-Rep. Pat Toomey; there has actually been very little movement since the previous Quinnipiac poll in the head-to-heads, although the Democratic primary looks a lot closer (but at this point Specter seems to be bleeding votes to "don't know" rather than directly to Sestak).

Things look worse in the Governor's race, where AG Tom Corbett leads both Auditor Jack Wagner and Allegheny Co. Executive Dan Onorato by double digits. In July, everyone was so little-known that Quinnipiac simply asked a Generic D/Generic R question (where "R" won, 38-37), so clearly Wagner and Onorato are underperforming their imaginary Dem colleague. This may, however, be a factor of name recognition, as Corbett is much better-known than any of his competition (he has 43/7 favorables with 49% don't know, while Gerlach and all the Dems top 70% don't know). It seems like Wagner (who is elected statewide, and actually had the biggest victory of anyone running statewide in 2008) should be well-known -- but setting aside us political junkies, who really knows who their Auditor is (while Corbett has spent years in the spotlight via the Bonusgate investigation)?

There's one other consideration here, one that cropped up with Quinnipiac's last poll too: they sampled an equal number of Democrats and Republicans (they may have oversampled to compensate, but they simply don't provide any more details in the crosstabs as to whether that's what they did), which is way off from the state's actual composition. Bear in mind, though, that Nate Silver re-ran the July numbers to correct for that problem and found that it only made a few points' worth of difference... so at this point, this looks more a case of low-info voters not yet knowing enough about Toomey other than that he's not Arlen Specter, and not knowing much of anything about anybody other than Corbett in the governor's race. (UPDATE: In response to questions about the July poll, Quinnipiac said they weighted, but based on 'party identification' rather than registration. Assumedly they're using the same method this time too.)

RaceTracker: PA-Sen | PA-Gov

Crisitunity :: PA-Sen, PA-Gov: Tight Senate Race, Corbett Leads for Governor
Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Sestak or bust?
More and more, I'm thinking there's too heavy an anti-Spector vote (or, rather, "I don't exactly hate Specter, but I'm pretty sick of him") for him to beat Toomey. Yes, with the right campaign, Toomey can be portrayed as the right-winger that he is, but frankly, he's doing a fairly decent job at fooling Independents into thinking he's a moderate.

Sestak, on the other hand, is a fresh face who could easily keep Toomey away from conservative Dems and moderate Indies.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast


That was always the risk
I doubt Specter would have these numbers if there hadn't been all the talk of a primary and them the actual existence of one. Still, Toomey isn't well known so opportunity is there for whoever emerges to paint him negatively and his history shouldn't make that too difficult. And Pennsylvania is still a blue state even in a Repub year.

[ Parent ]
I believe
that we would have been in a better position without Specter.

Just my belief.


Not legislatively
Need his vote.

[ Parent ]
He voted against us
the first two times.

He would have voted for us quite often. His voting record would not have been worse than the the two ladies from Maine.

I wish we had spent more efforts to get Chafee and Crist


[ Parent ]
Toomey is undefined
But that will change in the course of the campaign. I can't see them (PA voters) electing someone that far to the right. Specter will probably have more of a fight in the general election than the primary. With most of the establishment lined up behind Specter, Sestak will have to run a pretty great campaign to pull the upset.  

Ditto.
I think we'll win this one and New Hampshire.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

[ Parent ]
Due respect Crisitunity, but it's ridiculous to assume
that Q-poll didn't properly weight the GE sample to the entire electorate's party ID. But I suppose if you really think that you could just ask them.

That Pa2010 link
from July that I provided actually gets to the meat of the matter if you scroll all the way down to the update at the very bottom. Apparently (at least with the July poll, and I assume they use the same method now) there is weighting going on, but not based on party registration.

Someone at Quinnipiac just confirmed to me that the results were not weighted for party registration. Quinnipiac, like many pollsters, apparently prefers to use party identification, that is, which party people most identify with, as well as other demographics.... Also, the weighted results do reflect something different than just a 50-50 registration split, more along the lines of 45 percent Democrat and 40 percent Republican. Actual registration in the state is 51 percent Democrat and 37 percent Republican.


[ Parent ]
Makes sense
Dems usually do worse with LV than RV.

[ Parent ]
They're doing exactly what they're supposed to, then
Weighting to party registration is IMO, polling malpractice. Weighting to party ID is the gold standard.  

[ Parent ]
Onorato & Wagner
I don't see how either of the Allegheny County Democrats would beat Corbett. Does anyone think either one could?

Yes
Corbett is a great get for the Republicans, but he's under 50% in a fairly blue state.  There was an earlier poll that showed this race 34-29 Corbett over Onorato.  As you can see, there is very little name recognition among the D candidates.  

I actually like that some of the D's are from Pittsburgh, if that's what you're implying is the problem.  Much of Philly will default to the D's.  It's the Pittsburgh suburbs and exurbs that have been slipping away.  Corbett's from Pittsburgh too, so he would have the same "problem" in Philly.  If Onorato or Wagner wins the nomination, he will almost certainly an LG candidate from Philly, as will Corbett (Gerlach would be perfect).

I have previously thought Dems would eke this out.  Given this polling data, I think it's more likely than not that Corbett wins, but far from a cinch.

34, WM, Democrat, FL-11


[ Parent ]
PA-Redistricting
Is it the typical redistricting set-up, state legislature passes a map and then Gov signs it?

We better be able to keep the state house then if we lose the gubernatorial, way too many Dems that we need to shore up.


I still think that it's far too early to give Corbett an advantage.
Republicans know Toomey and Corbett and are supporting them in droves. Both are Santorumites, and Rick Santorum would not be elected statewide in 2010. I'm not saying that Corbett or Toomey won't (or can't) win, but if the Democrats can expose how right-wing they both are, Corbett's huge lead will evaporate (not that Toomey has much of one to start with).

Corbett was appointed AG by Tom Ridge and served for two years in the 90s before he was ever elected, which gave him an edge and allowed him to win by 2 points in 2004. Also, Pennsylvania hasn't elected a Democratic Attorney General since it became an elected position in 1980. Not sure if there's anything to that or not.

Corbett and Toomey just don't seem like the kind of Republicans that Pennsylvania likes as governors and senators. Santorum was a fluke, winning in '94 and 2000 (his reelection I can't explain as well, although I heard Klink wasn't the best candidate) before getting trounced by 18 points in 2006. Look at every recent PA Republican governor and senator besides Santorum. Arlen Specter. John Heinz. Tom Ridge. Dick Thornburgh. Dick Schwieker. Bill Scranton. Hugh Scott. My RINO grandparents have mentioned all of them as "their kind of Republicans" (though they're starting to sour on Specter, but I digress). It isn't surprising that Pennsylvania Republicans are nominating more conservatives, as their party has lost many moderates, but even in 2010 I do not think that this is a recipe for success.

Corbett and Toomey would win only if they were successful at masking their conservatism, something which Corbett has a better chance at doing without a congressional record...but something which I still think will come out before too long. True, he did get Tom Ridge's endorsement, but I expect Gerlach to make the case that he is in the mold of previous Republican governors.


When is the primary in PA?


Redistricting
If Democrats lose the PA governorship(which looks likely), then they must hold control of the state House or Republicans will have total control over redistricting again.  

It's nowhere near "likely."
It's a possibility, but it is still way too far out to say that Corbett will likely win.

[ Parent ]
Open Left has more numbers
Sestak up 43-39 on Specter for those who know both candidates. Only 163 of those sampled qualified for this, so the margin of error doesn't bear thinking about, but if it's not just a statistical aberration then Arlen's loss to undecided could be making it's way on to Joe as soon as he gets himself known a little more.

http://www.openleft.com/diary/...


This comment may make some in SSP land mad
I look at the Democratic party as part of my family.  Arlen Specter has recently joined the family, and since then he's been on our side on the key issues like health care.  I also had respect for Arlen before he joined our party.  He didn't mind rocking the boat within the GOP caucus, which politically made me very happy.

I'm supporting Arlen Specter in 2010.  If he loses to Sestak, I will definitely support Sestak because he is a good man and because Toomey is way too conservative.  At first, I was going to support Sestak because Arlen's motives for changing parties was solely because he knew he would lose the GOP nomination.  I'm totally over that now.  Arlen is one of us now, and while that may make a lot of people upset based on his record prior to April 2009, I now pledge loyalty to him like he has to us over the last 6 months.  I also do not believe he will switch his ideology after 2010.  He has seen what the GOP party is about (the party of "No") and he is committed to making the US a better place.

40, male, Democrat, NC-04


I wish Sestak hadn't run
I don't think Specter would be in this much trouble if he hadn't and still would have trended left with his votes if maybe a little slower. Also would be better not to have to worry about PA-07. But now Joe is in I'm torn. I think he would have a better shot than Arlen vis a vis Toomey.

[ Parent ]
I always said
that if I still lived in Pennsylvania when Specter was next up and ran for reelection, then I'd vote for him. I felt that it was important to have Republicans like him in the party, and on my usual deal-breaker issues (gay rights, stem-cell research, and church/state issues) he was "usually reliable" at worst, so I didn't mind having a Republican senator if it was him. Especially after Democrats regained a majority in the Senate, I felt that he would support the Democrats on several issues that most Republicans never would (and he has).

Then he changed parties, and I realized that I'd likely be voting for him by default in the primary and would certainly support him over Pat Toomey. I could understand Sestak's concerns about Specter being a "reliable Democrat" to a certain extent, but I still didn't think that he would help anything by running. My biggest beef with Specter is that personally he seems like a jerk, but it doesn't seem like Sestak is any better in that regard.

Now, though, I am concerned about a close race with Pat Toomey. I still don't think that Toomey will win, but I will not go out to say that it definitely won't happen. However, my concern still is not Toomey winning but rather the race staying close enough that the DSCC is forced to pour huge amounts of money into the state, where Sestak, once he starts airing ads, probably has a bit more room to grow as he doesn't have the baggage of two party switches (and the feelings of resentment and mistrust that it brought out among some of Specter's supporters) hanging over his head. I think that Sestak has a decent opportunity to secure a decent lead and secure the "Leans Democratic" ratings which Cook, Rothenberg, and the like currently give him.

This would take Pennsylvania out of the spotlight somewhat as there are a crapload of "tossup" races that would get more attention, leading Republicans to focus more on defeating Harry Reid, Blanche Lincoln, Michael Bennet, and Chris Dodd and electing Roy Blunt, Rob Portman, and Kelly Ayotte to open seats. I think that all of those races are likely more winnable for Republicans than Pennsylvania, but resentment toward Specter could keep the race close enough that the NRSC decides to spend a fair amount of money in PA, which will force the DSCC to compete there, as well. I suppose that the Club for Growth will spend nearly everything they have in PA to elect their former leader, but I'm not nearly as worried of their fundraising abilities as I am of the NRSC.

So, while I'm still planning to support Specter in the primary at this time, his electoral ceiling versus Sestak's electoral ceiling gives me pause.


[ Parent ]

Copyright 2003-2010 Swing State Project LLC

Primary Sponsor

You're not running for second place. Is your website? See why Campaign Engine is ranked #1 in software and support among Progressive-only Internet firms. http://www.mediamezcla.com/

Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


About the Site

SSP Resources

Blogroll

Powered by: SoapBlox