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Weekly Open Thread: What Races Are You Interested In?

by: James L.

Fri Sep 25, 2009 at 6:44 PM EDT


Rotten Tomatoes is out with its list of the 100 worst-reviewed movies of the past ten years. How many of those have you seen? To my great relief, I can honestly answer "zero".
James L. :: Weekly Open Thread: What Races Are You Interested In?
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Weekly Open Thread: What Races Are You Interested In? | 129 comments
IA-Sen
The chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party insists that a big-name challenger is "100 percent committed" to taking on Grassley.

Your guess is as good as mine.  

Any former governers that could be contenders?


20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)
[ Parent ]
Vilsack was like the first Democratic
Governor in 32 years when he was elected. People forget that even while Iowa has been reliably Democratic on a Presidential level, (even going for Dukasis by a healthier margin than it went for Gore), it has really preferred to elect moderate "Yankee" Republicans. In fact Tom Harkin is, as far as I can tell, the only Democrat since the 17th amendment passed, to win a reelection in Iowa. and Even so 2008 was the first time he passed 60% of the vote.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
Other than Harkin
I think the only other one was Sen. Guy Gillette, who won a 1936 special election to serve the remaining two years of Sen. Richard L. Murphy's term (Murphy was killed in car accident). He was re-elected to a full term in 1938 before being defeated for re-election in 1944.
[ Parent ]
Didn't pay for any
But I've seen Dragonfly, Basic Instinct 2 and Daddy Day Camp. I've seen worse.
I saw Down to You on an airplane
Or, at least, it was playing. I can't remember a thing about it, though.  
0
I did not even know the names of most of these movies if not all.
The Happening (Starring Mark Wahlberg)
Has got to be the worst movie of all time in my book. Not only Wahlberg's worst acting job, but the worst of all time. Just reading the details even makes me puke.
Saw four.
Two Christmas ones with my family during the holidays, one my dad rented, and Battlefield Earth after I finished reading it.  Talk about a waste of my time.  They really screwed up with that one.
Not seen comment on Obama-Paterson
Paterson asked for it.

Steve Israel needed a phone call. Paterson asked for a public snub. Is he masochistic?

I have seen only 3 of these movies
Cheaper by the Dozen 2 (Terrible movie; they tried to make it raunchy and family friendly at the same time, resulting in a complete failure. Wouldn't have seen it but they showed it at night when I was at camp so I had no choice)
Johnson Family Vacation (Pretty dumb, saw it with my family and they liked it though)
Envy (Jack Black and Ben Stiller are funny, but not when they have a terrible script to work with. On an SSP-related note, Black's character in the movie briefly ran for Congress in an unspecified exurban SoCal district)
Hmm.
I thought Cheaper by the Dozen 2 and the New Guy were good movies.

Dragonfly sucked.

Can't remember what I thought about Ballistic: Ecks versus Sever.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

Re:Paterson
In the 1980's, Oakland batters on base were sometimes asked to sacrifice themselves so that Ricky Henderson (also on base) could motor. New Yorkers did not find it surprising or objectionable. So why are they objecting now?
Gag
I accidentally watched House of the Dead before Uwe Boll's name became infamous.  Forced to screen Codename: The Cleaner for my old job at a movie theater.  Accidentally stumbled into the Rollerball remake.  Saw Battlefield Earth purely for the lulz.  Got dragged into Kickin It Old School, and Disaster Movie (probably the worst movie I've ever seen).

And oh god, the cinematic trainwreck that was Ballistic: Ecks vs. Sever...the stuff nightmares are made out of.

Zero
Thankfully.
I saw about half of The Covenant one drunken Saturday night
it's really only good for the male eye candy. That's the only one on the list, although I do enjoy a good Sci-Fi Original Movie.
I think I saw The New Guy
Back when it came out, but I was like 13, so don't hate.

22, Democrat, AZ-01
Peace. Love. Gabby.
I tend to be a bit of a movie buff
Is 11 too many?
Yes, it is
But which ones? :)
[ Parent ]
After further review.....
It was actually 12

Cheaper By the Dozen 2
Larry the Cable Guy: Health Inspector
Big Momma's House 2
College
Corky Romano
Good Luck Chuck
Godsend
Code Name: The Cleaner
The Whole Ten Yards
Rollerball
Meet the Spartans
Epic Movie

With the exception of Corky Romano and Rollerball, I agree, the rest sucked.  Larry the Cable Guy was the same old slapstick that you can expect from him and I thought it was pretty funny too.

[ Parent ]
i am a movie buff also - 12
I had

Cheaper by the Dozen 2 - bad
Boat Trip (which shouldn't be on the list)
Basic Instinct 2 - absolutely terrible i agree
Big Mommas House 2 - should have stopped after 1
Date Movie - unmemorable
Johnson Family Vacation - no comment
The Cookout - awful
My Baby's Daddy - as bad as it sounds
Code Name : The Cleaner - the women were hot
Epic Movie - i watched half of it
Daddy Day Camp - i think i saw it
King's Ransom - I've seen worse

[ Parent ]
Cable
Cable makes this bearable.  I have not seen any of these in a theater.  Paying $20 for two tickets tends to mean a semi commitment.  Cable means just a click on the remote to end the experience.

I've seen 6 of the movies but I only saw all of one, 88 Minutes, in its entirety.  Meet the Spartans was mercifully skimmed on cable for all of about 2 minutes.  Because I Said So probably got a half hour because of Dianne Keaton.  Still lousy.  Battlefield Earth amd Pluto Nash may have even gotten more time. Pluto Nash had one half way funny joke IIRC in about 40 minutes. Battlefield Earth may have been the worst picture Travolta ever did.  Even he was bad.  Ballistics remains a vague blur.

I though I had seen two other movies but on further examination, not quite.  I saw the original Swept Away, a 1974 fim, and couldn't understand why it was rotten.  It wasn't; the remake was.  Basic Instinct was pretty good, by no means great.  I never saw the sequel.  

[ Parent ]
I can honestly answer "zero" too!
And I found a 50 movies for 50 states feature on that same site. I gotta check out Point Break sometime!

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28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)
Yeah
The 50 state movies feature had a few surprises, and a couple that I want to check out. I am glad, though, that I've seen zero on the hundred worst list, too!
[ Parent ]
Unfortunately I saw
A Sound of Thunder,
The Adventures of Pluto Nash,
Big Momma's House,
Corky Romano,
Christmas With The Kranks, (Which I actually liked, unlike most Holiday feel good films).

Blood Rayne,
Meet the Spartans, (I thought it was a funny parody)
Master of Disguise
Witless Protection, God that was awful beyond all means
and the Pinnochio remake.

God I am awful lol, two of the top ten worst, though Larry the Cable guy was far worse than Pinnochio, even Begenini's creepy frolicking and acting like a small child.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Installment 4 of Your Weekly Musical Treat:

Speaking of movies I saw Private Lessons recently, pretty funny, but also quite sexual. I thought it quite funny that the actor that played the seduced kid was also Nydia Velazquez's Press Secretary for a couple of years and a political consultant.

I have to say I have enjoyed many great movies recently, though Donnie Darko was the best. A lot of the movie is a thinly veiled attack on mainstream Christianity, and as one critic put it so perfectly, "sensitivity to the sort of institutionalized violence most of take for granted.

On another note I am finding Nietzsche quite disappointing, most of his arguments come from a sort of sheer militant social darwinism. He spends far more time repeatedly attacking Christianity for supporting the weak and inspiring weakness than he does actually making any sort of logical argument against it. It seems to me he was more opposed to it philosophically because it went against his rather ruthless views while at the same time he somewhat hypocritically spends a lot of time ripping others for allowing sentiment to infuse their beliefs. That said Nietzsche is not so bad as the introduction, which was written by H. L. Mencken, who makes Gore Vidal look modest and low brow in comparison. I don't know, that level of disdain and snobbery as in Mencken makes me uncomfortable because it seems like it would inevitably cloud your logic and thought and not to mention that but he is also horribly anti-Semetic and seems to be mostly attacking the proletariat because they are not smart, and the plutocracy too, in his sort argument for an aristocracy like the aristocracy was ever that intelligent itself.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

Zero
Bad movies these days aren't nearly as much fun as the good old days of bad movies, the 1970s and 1980s. Today, it's the same bad cliches. Back then, they worked hard to make them awful in totally unique ways.

For instance, my favorite bad movie ever, "The Apple".

Don't ever watch that movie alone. Only watch it in a group of 10 to 20 people who have a good sense of humor.

I'm not sure
If I've ever seen a movie so bad it was good... I'm not sure I have that gene in me! Bad = bad. Though I am fond of Logan's Run and Freejack, so maybe I'm wrong about myself!
[ Parent ]
I'm found of Ace Ventura
I think that defies everything lol.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
You haven't lived
until you've been dragged to, and forced to buy a ticket in person, by title, for Zombie Strippers.
[ Parent ]
The whole experience
Just watching a bad movie is no fun at all. But watching a bad movie with the right people who don't mind talking during a movie (and, sometimes, with the proper refreshments*) can be a really great experience. This is especially true if, like "The Apple" I linked above, you find one that's poorly written, badly acted, has terrible editing, AND is a musical. Those four qualities usually mean it'll be a great night!

* I'm not saying get wildly drunk and watch a movie. If you're going to get wildly drunk, you don't really need the movie, do you? But a bad movie can be a great social occasion.

Also, I thought "Logan's Run" was kind of sort of okay. I mean, it wasn't good, but I'd watch it a second time.

[ Parent ]
You got served
Is a movie that was so bad it was good because of the people I saw it with. I haven't seen it but I heard The Room falls into that category as well.

As for the list, I fall in the in-between category with 6.

[ Parent ]
I once saw a movie called "Jesus Christ: Vampire Slayer"
Now that defines so bad that it's good ;)

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!

[ Parent ]
Bloomberg running contrast ads
against Bill Thompson. Keeping in mind the cardinal rule of political advertising (don't mention your opponent unless he's a threat), I wonder what direction his internals are going in.  
Bill Bloomburg probably needs the tax deduction
or he's trying to find ways to incinerate his wealth which continued to explode to 16.3 billion dollars last year according to Forbes. About 7 years ago I remember it was at 4.8 billion dollars.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
I don't think you can deduct
self-funded political campaigning. In any case, NY TV is making out like a bandit on him: he's been on full rotation since March.  
[ Parent ]
you live in NY?
anyway Bloomberg can afford it. I mean he could be a real contender for the presidency if he ever ran, I mean he doesn't have the aura of a gadfly like Perot did, he has very impressive electoral base and experience to run off, and I could really see him dumping a billion dollars into a campaign that could innundate the country with ads and pay thousands of on the ground workers and set up quite a large campaign apparatus. I think he would really have to be taken seriously and possibly play the role of spoiler.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
Yup, I go to school here
And BTW, Bloomberg could never win a Presidential election. Indeed, he would likely guarantee a Republican President.  
[ Parent ]
still, 16.3 billion dollars...


Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
You know
I meant to mention that I saw some stray Bloombo mailer in the lobby of my building the other day, and it was wildly negative against Thompson (some shit about when Thompson served on the old Board of Ed). No poll has shown him close than about ten, and most have him around 15 back. So what is Bloomsberry afraid of?
[ Parent ]
The last Q poll had something strange
that I don't think I've ever seen before: there are lots of black New Yorkers who approve of the Job Bloombo is doing but are still going to vote for Thompson. Still, the mayor is getting an unusually large percentage of the black vote. So I'm wondering what his strategy is too.Maybe he thinks that there are others where those came from lurking in the group of blacks who claim they plan to vote for him. So my guess is that the whole board of ed thing is aimed at making Thompson seem like an old Harlem hack to white voters.

Bloomie is taking a risk that he might poison his position with black voters, but in New York that's probably ok--so long as he doesn't piss off other minorities and white liberals (unlikely, they're locked in for him).

In Philadelphia, where I grew up, a white candidate loses by making the race about race, but Philly is considerably more black.  

[ Parent ]
One other thought
Suppose that Rahm and Co decide that it would be nice to have a surprise NYC-Mayor win on an otherwise dismal night this November?
[ Parent ]
Seems far more likely Bloomberg will
be appointed to some major federal position like FCC Chairman, (he did own Reuters), or Secretary of the Treasury, even Treasurer. I don't see him considering any less substantive offers. The hope is that Mark Green will become mayor and it will help resurrect his political career and give him another shot at governor after a term or two as mayor. A pipe dream perhaps.

By the way can anyone tell me how Bloomberg is winning the black vote? I'm thinking he must just be appealing to the higher income, liberal, but less partisan, bracket. I think most of Bloomberg's support, (and Guiliani's), comes from blue collar law and order low income white voters, and upper class white pro-business types. NYC's turnout seems phenomenally low in mayoral races. Bloomberg spent something like 42 dollars for every vote he received back in 2001. So it means he only got something like 700,000 votes to win the damn thing and he won it by a double digit margin, but NYC in a Presidential race usually delivers like what? 2 million votes or more, 3 million, to the Democratic candidate alone? So turnout drops by more than 66% in mayoral races and the vast majority of those are the most loyal Democratic voters who also happen to be the most infrequent and unlikely voters. Republicans always unfortunately have the advantage in that their groups usually turn out rain or shine and conservatives who whine and gripe still end up supporting their candidate over the Democrat; the same cannot be said for half the liberal idiots at Dkos and elsewhere who think they are accomplishing something by not voting or backing third party candidates.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
He's not winning the black vote
He's just getting a significant percentage of it.

As for Bloomberg's base of support, I think the only people he's not winning are poor minorities. He's looking to win Manhattan again on the backs of a fair number of (relatively) rich white liberals. Just ask Howard Wolfson.  

[ Parent ]
Who are economically quite conservative
But in any case can you explain to my why turn is nearly 70% lower in Mayoral races? That just kills the Democrats every time.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
Because nobody ever likes
the mayoral candidates the Democrats run.

[ Parent ]
Weiner, though
will have it all wrapped up when he runs finally, right?  Hopefully?

NYC and MN are kind of in the same cycle of Republican governance, 20 freakin years!!!!  

[ Parent ]
He ran in 2005
he came in second to Freddy Ferrer, enough to make it into a runoff but he withdrew and endorsed Ferrer right after the primary.

The problem for the Dems is trying to get all the city's ethnic groups (the three-legged stool of New York City Democratic politics: whites, blacks, and Hispanics) unified under one candidate.

[ Parent ]
Slightly short
As I recall, he was just slightly short of a runoff and refused a recount that had a chance of barely putting him into one he would have lost in a divisive way. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
You're right
Ferrer ended up with 40.15%.

http://www.vote.nyc.ny.us/pdf/...

[ Parent ]
what's unfortunate
is that in an open race, Bill Thompson could do that.

but right now the Democrats are lost their Jewish base, rich white base, and a portion of their African-American base to Bloomberg, that gives him enough to win.  

[ Parent ]
once Bloomberg is out
any Democrat would have it wrapped up...at least at the onset. Until 9/11, there was no way Mark Greem was going to lose the 2001 race, even with the race fracas he got caught in during the bitter primary.

but no, Weiner would not have beated Bloomberg this year.

That said, I expect Thompson to get at least 45% of the vote this year.  

[ Parent ]
What
They would all of a sudden go full-blast for Thompson? I can't possibly see that happening, or how they could even make it work.
[ Parent ]
I think it's highly unlikely
But when you've got as much money to spend as Mike, you start whacking moles that aren't even there.  
[ Parent ]
CT-Sen: What are the realistic odds of a Republican taking Dodd's seat?
I just don't see any type of republican holding that seat after such a cluster fuck they were for 8 years.  Then again, Lieberman is as good as a Republican...

20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)
Funny
Linda McMahon is on NYC broadcast tonight.  
[ Parent ]
I
wrote her campaign off as a joke when I first heard of it. So far though, she's taking this seriously. Anyone want to guess how much money she'll throw at this thing?

19, Male, Independent, CA-12
[ Parent ]
I've read
Upwards of 50-60 million. She may be able to pull off a primary upset. I now think the primary will be McMahon vs Simmons, forget the rest
[ Parent ]
I don't see it either
The fact that Dodd is already recovering in the polls tells me all I need to know.  A year from now I'd be shocked if we're still sweating this race.  Dodd isn't going to retire.  He knows that he'll be re-elected next year.  Short of Governor Rell herself running, Connecticut is not about to send a Republican to DC.
[ Parent ]
Not any more
Lieberman's Progressive Punch score on crucial votes so far this year is 83.33.  His career total is 68.49.  Lieberman , Inouye, and Kerry were all big gainers.

Lieberman's score in 2009 is the same as Patrick Leahy and Barbara Mikulski.  Not bad.  The criticism may be working.

Want Republican-lite?  Ben Nelson's crucial vote score is an anemic 31.25 this session down from a very bad 43.38 career score.  Evan Bayh fell from 73.87 to 43.75 and is leading a new Senate group of Conservadems.  If he was named VP, would he vote with the Democrats on a tie vote?

Five Democrats score below 50%.  So 83% is not bad at all.  Fwiw, the 5 are Baucus, Lincoln, Bayh,Byrd and Ben Nelson.

Specter is below 50 but the total is dragged down by his votes as a Republican.  He'd be above 50 as a Democrat.  The lowest score from the class of 2008 is a 54.17 from Kay Hagan.  The highest scores from the class of 2008 are Al Franken (100%) and two appointees:  Edward Kaufman and Roland Burris.

Amy Klobuchar is a 62.5 this year.  That's 37.5 points below state-mate Franken.  Russ Feingold has inexplicably dropped over 30 points.

[ Parent ]
What the hell Amy?
She had been a little bit in with the Bayh crowd when it came to voting down provisions in the stimulus package.

Here is where I think we'll see the divide between Franken and Klobuchar.  Klobuchar plans on being a career politician and being in the Senate for a couple of decades.  Franken is planning on being a liberal voice in the Senate which will hopefully result in a few decades of service.

[ Parent ]
Feingold on guns
his votes on the gun amendments probably had to do with that drop. He supported allowing guns into national parks and onto Amtrak trains.  
[ Parent ]
Speaking of New York
Repeating my questions
1. Steve Israel needed a public phone call. Why did Paterson ask for a public snub?

2. Tony LaRussa would sometimes sacrifice a runner on base so that Rickey Henderson (also on base) could motor. New Yorkers approved of this. Why are they not approving Obama's efforts now?

[ Parent ]
Okay hmm
Your questions (at least, the second question) are weird.

1) Who says Paterson asked for anything? To the contrary, it looks like Obama either fucked things up (by letting this get public when he didn't mean to), or he decided to truly fuck over Paterson by making it public. It's not like Paterson had a choice.

2) I seriously thought you were joking when you asked this earlier, but evidently you are not. What the fuck does alleged "approval" of the tactics of a baseball manager from two decades ago have to do with a president trying to shove out a sitting governor today?

[ Parent ]
I think Paterson fucked up by making it about race
Obama was probably thinking, OH HELL NO, Mr 20% approval rating is not fucking this all up for me and dragging me into some bullshit in New York.

I think where it had to become a public snubbing was maybe in the response Pateron and Co. gave Obama when Obama and Co. first told Paterson that they greatly disapproved of him using the race card.  Obama probably didnt like the response he got back from Paterson and was like, fine, fuck you, you're going down.

Just so I can appropriately dislike the race card being thrown around, who was the Congressman from Chicago who pulled that bullshit for Burris?  Just want to make sure I throw him in the same camp as Rangel mentally.

[ Parent ]
That was Rep. Bobby Rush.
Rush said, "There are no African-Americans in the Senate and I don't think anyone -- any U.S. Senator that's sitting in the Senate right now wants to go on record to deny one African-American from being seated in the U.S. Senate." That's especially racially charged when you consider that he likened a rejection of Burris to a lynching.

Rush was also the guy who introduced that extreme-far-left gun control bill, "Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing Act," which to date has no co-sponsors.  

[ Parent ]
It was more than his trying to make it about race
It's that he not only tried to claim that people are opposing him out of racism, rather than because he's incompetent, but also that he dragged President Obama into the thing by comparing the invective thrown at him for being a lousy governor with the pathologically, out-of-control angry, racist attacks against the president. I have no doubt someone will correct me if my chronology is off, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying that it was after that particular piece of bullshit from Governor Paterson that the president let it be known to the governor that he shouldn't run for reelection.

It seems to me that not only had Governor Paterson made himself a liability to the Democratic Party and the president himself, but also that he had made things personal and dragged President Obama into a sordid situation that really didn't have to have anything to do with him. And given that the governor had tried to drag President Obama's name into the mud, I find it difficult to see where the president did something wrong by saying, essentially, You need to sit down and shut up.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  

[ Parent ]
He now has his wife out
Whining that it has something to do with his blindess. Just sad.
[ Parent ]
yeah, I think you are one of the people
that need to back off the President on this. Barack Obama is the Democratic Party's leader, front and simple. He is its nationally leader. He has a right to get involved in any damn primary that he wants and any time he feels like someone is stubborn and being a liability he is going to do whatever it takes to help the party.

I have no doubt Obama tried doing it the nice way but Patterson's borderline delusional at this point about his chances and he's trying to scare off Cuomo by creating a disgusting, race-based campaign that will be a national embarrassment to the Democratic party. In my mind its a fuck yes, President please get involved and do everything you can to force Patterson out or give Cuomo the racial cover to feel comfortable winning. Patterson did ask for this, he asked for it the day he started working with the Harlem Four to turn this into another racial campaign to cover up his own gross incompetence, he asked for it after he ignored all state and national pressures to not seek reelection. That's how it works. That's why I was happy when Obama chose Emmanuel, I knew we see this, good old fashioned hardball politics, its nice to see Democrats occasionally grow a pair like Republicans when it comes to internally managing the party. Emmanuel is a great political strategist in that he sees what he wants, see what's best for the party and pursues that goal anyway he has to, he simply doesn't take any shit and he will fuck people over in a heartbeat if they try to pass him or ignore his efforts.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Sorry, bub
But I'm as free to express my opinion as you are. You're in no position to demand that anyone "back off" their opinions. Sheesh, get a grip.
[ Parent ]
I think i laid out why you should "back off"
Those opinions. I only copied your tone. Telling you say nothing to refute any assertion that I made.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
Here's the story:
People can disagree here. What they can't do is what you're trying to do here - tell others to "back off" their opinions. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion here. If you disagree with someone, fine. But that's where it ends. Period.

As for tone, I advise caution. You're probably the most abrasive member on this site, and you've pushed things to the edge of acceptability on more than one occasion. You tend to show little humility in expressing yourself, especially given your years. And you also show little regard for your would-be discussion partners, given that virtually every comment of yours contains serious spelling and grammar errors. These are not good behaviors to keep up for anyone who wants to participate on this site.

And as a final word, I've devoted six years to this website, and spent countless hours providing highly-quality free content to total strangers, you included. Yet you walked into my house, put your feet up on the sofa, and then proceeded to launch a fusillade at me demanding I "back off" my opinions. I don't find that kind of behavior acceptable. Again, disagree all you want, but that's where it ends.

[ Parent ]
Thanks for moderating
David, as well as for providing readers the great news page you do to read up on the races. I definitely enjoy coming here to read the timely updates, and appreciate the fact that you don't tolerate nonsense from posters like other blogs do.

Maybe for all those who think it's part of Barack Obama's job description to ask Patterson to step aside, or that he has a place to do this, would be content if Patterson agreed  not to run next year so long as Obama didn't run for re-election to his job in three years.

The Obama Administration deserves any embarassment it's going to get over this foray into the NY governor's race and any other primary contests it's decided to meddle in. I'm of the opinion that Patterson shouldn't be swayed one or the other by the wishes of the president. And for some reason, I have a good feeling that that's exactly what's going to happen.

[ Parent ]
Its not about swaying Patterson
Its about making sure that he loses.

Your comparison doesn't even make sense however; Patterson is not any kind of leader in a national sense nor does have any political capital or power to make such a demand, the President does however.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
What power would that be?

[ Parent ]
Inherently as the National Face and Leader
both of the nation and the Democratic Party Barack Obama does have an authority to intervene and play kingmaker in important races such as Patterson where a stubborn unrealistic incumbent threatens to jeopardize control of the State Senate, (and thereby important redistricting), and possibly drag down on Kirsten Gillibrand as well. In such an instance I feel at least that the President certainly does have an inherent power to publicly throw his weight in a particular election.

Of course I am confused about the sort of both way attitude almost. Many people here and elsewhere do complain quite often about the national party always backing incumbents, which confuses me why some of those same people would be upset here since they often are against incumbents who are simply put, being supported because they are the strongest candidates. I guess I do have a substantially more hardball party politics view than some or even many here perhaps.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
David forgot
to mention that you consistently state your opinions as facts, and expect readers to accpet them as such.

"Stubborn, unrealistic incumbent threatens to jeopardize control of the State Senate, and possibly drag down on Kirsten Gillibrand as well."

This is your opinion that you state as fact. Implicit within it are many assumptions you use to bolster your argument, some of which I, and probably many others as well don't agree with.

"Unrealistic incumbent?" Do you really think Patterson shouldn't run for a full term because you don't think he can win?

[ Parent ]
I tend to consider people
with negative 40 approval ratings to have next to no shot at reelection. Patterson's weakness is shown by the fact he is tied with former Rep. Lazio of all people.

Furthermore I am not here to play modest mouse, if I say something you should assume it is my take, my opinion, otherwise I simply would not bother to say it. The line between opinion and fact is finely obscured as well and crossed all of the time by everyone no matter how big a purist they try to be. I simply don't bother and wholeheartedly state my opinions as absolutes, which they are to me. I am not above changing, but changing always involves a thorough defeat in logical and informational debate.

What's more Patterson by trying to drive Cuomo out of the race is very likely inviting a stronger challenger as well, and that would definitely have a negative effect. Regardless it is hardly a stretch of fact or of opinion to note that Patterson's unpopularity is the albatross around the necks on the NY-DP; he numbers have gotten so terrible that it is merely unavoidable that he is beginning to drag down other Democrats, especially, it would appear, Gillibrand.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Maybe you could consider
that Patterson actually thinks he could win, and that he would be a better governor than any other person in the race would. You may also consider that there may be any number of good reasons Patterson has to run for governor of New York, not just winning the election. I could probably give 20 good reasons off the top of my head why an incumbent governor of New York should run for a full term, and many more if I put my mind to it.

Anyway, my original point was that if Obama's going to make a request of Patterson to quit his job without offering him anything in return, then it seems a reasonbale request for Patterson to ask the same thing of the president regardless of who's more powerful.

Some would say that DNC Chairman Tim Kaine is head of the Democratic Party, not Barack Obama.    

[ Parent ]
Technically,
But consider that Tim Kaine is Obama's appointee and that he would be gone in a heartbeat if Obama decided it was time for a change of tone at the DNC. Its tradition that the sitting President has overall authority on the national party apparatus; by the time of Clinton and Bush the position almost came to the point of being another Presidential appointment.

I don't doubt that Patterson probably have very sincere motives at heart; but they don't change the fact that he has not been effective thus far, in fact Patterson has been a walking disaster-his poll numbers are not so low by accident. He probably does have ideas and policy goals, but there are two things to take into account, one, he will never enact them if he can't win, and two, if he does win he will completely lack the political capitol or strength to enact them so either way it is not difficult for one to see a candidate such as Cuomo as New York's only real hope to get a popular Governor possibly capable of accomplishing something.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Well now the argument's changed
hasn't it? Are we talking about the ethics of the president's intervening in political races, or are we talking about the state of the New York governor's race?

My only point was that it's not in Obama's job description to make this request, and I don't beleive he has any place to do it. I think most people would agree with this assessment. Apparently, most New Yorkers do anyway.

Obama may have a "right" to request this. I don't think he does. But, if Obama does, then Patterson possesses an equal right to deny Obama's request. Patterson works for the people of New York, not the Democratic Party. And Barack Obama is not his de facto boss.

[ Parent ]
Well New Yorkers can be quite
Up in your face about politics and football. I have never said though that Obama is Patterson's boss or that Patterson has to suck up and follow Obama's policy, I completely disagree with that and so does Obama I feel. All I care about is winning races and getting things done. Winning races is the most important thing, and so in that regard I think Patterson should get out, and that is basically what the President is saying. It does not surprise and strikes me as the obvious reason that this was done just a few days after Patterson's striking tirade that served as a launch point into a racially charged campaign being pushed an increasingly powerless generation of divisive black leaders trying to stay relevant. I think had Patterson not started engaging in such negative politics, (at a time when his own position is already terrible), the President likely would not have personally stepped, ostensibly to give Cuomo cover.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
Also remember...
Who put Tim Kaine in that place...Barrack Obama. Traditionally, the President serves as leader of his party. The chairman just does the dirty work
[ Parent ]
I'd like to answer this for my part
Do you really think Patterson shouldn't run for a full term because you don't think he can win?

No. I think he should bow out because he's an incompetent, but if he has too big an ego to recognize that, he should bow out because he's had the temerity (and I really mean that: foolishness) to not only inappropriately bring the specter of racism into the campaign but try to tar a majority of the state, which opposes him because of his demonstrated incompetence and misrule, with an epithet worthy of using for the "I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!" brand of extreme racist opponents of the president.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  

[ Parent ]
I have no problem
with your opinion. I didn't imply what Patterson should do, or why he should do it except that he shouldn't not run because certain people don't want him to.

If you don't want him to run, I think you should try to convince him not to run, not me.

[ Parent ]
_I_ should convince him not to run?
If his horrible poll numbers and the president can't convince him, do you think _I_ can? No. I can just vote against him, if he doesn't give it up.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
What's wrong with simply voting against him?
My point was that it's the governor's decision whether or not to run for election, and no one else's.
[ Parent ]
That's correct
but he himself brought the president in through his invidious false analogy with the president as another black politician ostensibly victimized by racists - meaning the majority of the population in New York State. As far as I'm concerned, the president is entirely within his rights to respond to that by asking the governor not to run for election, and I also think that Paterson can go fuck himself. Other than that, I have no opinion. :-)

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Because they are trying to avoid
Racial tensions that will hurt Cuomo in the general. Paterson going kamikaze when he can't win is counter-productive.
[ Parent ]
Guy said he never wanted
To be governor anyway and took LG from Spitzer because he expected to be appointed to the senate when Hillarywas elected president. The man is hopeless.
[ Parent ]
I won't even get into that
I'm still shocked that you just called me the most abrasive user on SSP, I can't even think of how to reply to that, I don't think I have to actually, my record exists independent.

When have I pressed things to the edge of acceptability? I have no idea where such a statement is coming from. The only situations where I have ever been abrasive was in dealing with several incidents of blatant South-bashing.

But other than that you should perhaps check my record. I have been on this site nearly as long as it has been up, since 2005 and have been one of the most prolific commentators over a very long period. I have also been among the most respectful, even if I do take an argumentative tone. Again I have never had trouble or even been given a backlash against my tone and I have had a great many good conversations with nearly everyone on this site. My record of participation is nearly impeccable and while I can be combative on occasion I am never disrespectful or rude to other users.

Please show me where I pushed things to the edge of acceptability. That really offends me, considering my loyalty personally to participating in the political discussion of this site and how long I have done so. In fact I have not had an actual argument of any nature in some months and even those I tend to have are more of interesting debate type arguments.

As for my "repeated spelling and grammatical errors" I have a few thoughts as well. One, I use firefox, it underlines errors in spelling and I catch and correct all spelling mistakes so there are not repeated spelling errors. As for grammatical errors? I don't doubt them, after all every casual comment I make is not carefully checked for complex grammatical correctness but even they are still easy to understand, the mistake does not make it difficult to understand the concept which I am writing about.

As for asking you to "back off" which as you note is rude on your site, I felt you were rather rude in the same way to the commenter above, you were not very polite with him. As for humility? If I had humility on a subject I wouldn't be taking the time to write about it and extrapolate my thoughts on it.

I'm still upset actually, I can't get over being called abrasive on the strength of one comment. I don't think to many other posters here would called me abrasive; because there is a difference between argumentative and abrasive and even so I am not that often argumentative and not so on many subjects. Much less pushed things to the edge on more than one occasion. That is simply untrue.

I have always felt I was among the elite posters here based on output, and the extent of my knowledge; I am nearly a walking political atlas, I can name a congressional district, its incumbent, the demographics, when he was elected, past challengers and political strategy just based on giving me a county or population center. SSP has been instrumental in helping me form my vast knowledge of politics, along with CQPolitics and a great many other sites and prognosticators; CQ's election map was brilliantly helpful because I know the presidential numbers from the past three elections of just about any competitive district. I have always attempted to combine this with an intimate knowledge of Southern Conservatism and southern politics along with my own general optimism and liberality in adding to and participating in the discussion here, and regardless of whether I was rude and/or out of line in calling you out in such a manner and such a tone I would hopefully think that my record would not be subjugated to such a smear and likewise, a nastiness, that is simply not accurate and not fair.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
IMO, you have come off abrasive on more than 1 occassion
And I'm only posting this comment since you said "I don't think to many other posters here would call me abrasive".  But I don't think that's necessarily a bad or good thing.  You have passion for your beliefs, which I do respect.  I have a lot of passion for my beliefs, but I've learned to control my emotions over the last 38 years.  

I also want you to stay a blogger on this site, so I would highly encourage you to "mend fences" with David.  David, James, and Crisitunity have given their hearts to SSP, and I can't tell you how much enjoyment I get from this site.



40, male, Democrat, NC-04

[ Parent ]
I was never trying to break any fences
But I tend to depend on my passions. I have no real desire or will to right something that isn't aflame with some sort of passion or belief, in the end I have no real desire to control or roll back my emotions, they are part of me, they cannot be removed to do so would be in a way denying myself, not being true to myself.

It is the unique quality of my style I suppose arguing can often come as being abrasive, I learn more and refine my thoughts every time I do argue. I'm surprised to hear that you have found me abrasive before, because I can only remember very fun, respectful arguments with you which have taught me much about NC politics.

Rereading that comment I am sure that David will notice a few errors; the absence of a then, a he that is supposed to be a 'the' and a 'to' that needs to be a 'too'. Unfortunate, but they happen in informal writing.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Dude, you and I are cool
I really enjoy hearing your comments, and your personality really comes out better than most.  The words here are in black and white, and unfortunately what you may write may be misinterpreted on occassion by others.  I think you hit it on the nail when you said "It is the unique quality of my style I suppose arguing can often come as being abrasive..."  I think the world of David, James, and Crisitunity, and if they felt the need to knock me down for making insensitive comments, I will definitely listen to them and make the necessary corrections.  They have given their heart and soul to SSP, so in a way I consider them part of my family (just like I consider all others, including you, as part of my SSP family).  I wouldn't want anything you have posted to jeapordize your contribution to SSP.

BTW, I really enjoy our dialogue regarding NC politics.  You give me (and others) a different perspective on how others outside NC view our races.

40, male, Democrat, NC-04

[ Parent ]
Thank you, Good To Know
I often wonder how to interpret the word abrasive. I think the one thing that has been missed in all of this is the fact that I too very much appreciate this site and the work done it; it is the most convenient and important site in keeping my political knowledge up to date. This site is as good as it gets as far as politics goes.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
I think the word "abrasive" is also a cultural concept
What you and I might find acceptable would be considered "abrasive" by other areas within the US.  In addition, some cultures are much more sensitive than others, and when they have felt slighted, they counterattack in their own way.  

Some of our Northern Democratic politicians would be crucified if they had to depend on votes from, say, the South.  Although they may have our best interests, they would have trouble getting thru the cultural gap.

I know some people really look down on past Southern politicians.  Although they might support the Democratic party 75% of the time, they instead look at the other 25% and stereotype them as being hurtful to the party.  In reality, if they voted with the Dems 100% of the time, they would be tossed to the curb when they run for re-election.  You and I know that, but many don't have a clue.  Instead they want to make the "good politician" the enemy of the perfect.

40, male, Democrat, NC-04

[ Parent ]
Us Minnesotans are known to be
extremely passive aggressive, which goes along with our Minnesota nice.  In comparison to me, a lot of people on this blog are a bit abrasive.  I generally feel really awkward or like an ass when I have to pwn someone (or think I am anyway) and I dont put my words as matter of factly as you do, because I like to leave the wiggle room so as not to be, me right you wrong.

But again, it is totally my Minnesotan passive aggressiveness, I do it to the t with everyone in my life.  

God, I bet everyone's complaint about me is that I talk about Minnesota a lot.  Blah blah blah, you think you're the best state in the country, we get it.

[ Parent ]
I feel
I have a tendency to be that way with California. When I start talking California I feel I totally can't stop!

I am probably the California equivalent of "southern hospitality" or "Minnesota Nice", which is "California cool". I am usually laid-back and try to avoid arguments because I just want us all to "cool".

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)

[ Parent ]
Are you Drew Pritt?
Just curious.
[ Parent ]
I feel priveleged to say no, I am not
I have dealt with Pritt before and found him quite intolerable.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
David
1. Paterson asked for it. He had to be pretty dense if he could not read the omens. The stakes were too high. NY state senate and redistricting, KG's senate seat and possibly some congressmen at risk. Paterson could not deliver. Most politicians with pathetic approval would have taken a walk and not wait for the President to push him/her out.

2. They may be a little old but the parallels are very close. Paterson is the runner on base. The President's office is managing if not the President himself. And Cuomo is on the deck rearing to go.

[ Parent ]
Okay
1) You were asking some kind of rhetorical question, then? Well, bully for you.

2) Your baseball analogy is real nifty; your attempt to use it to somehow show hypocrisy on the part of New Yorkers is weird.

[ Parent ]
Here's why the baseball analogy is stupid (sorry to be blunt)
The whole reasoning and case for Obama to not be snubbing Paterson and telling him not to run for election (we should stop saying re-election, he hasnt been elected a first time in all reality) is because it's none of his business, let NY politics be handled by New Yorkers.

The whole sacrifice a few runners to get the big hitter up is directed and carried out by members of the baseball team in New York.  That is a self managed strategy with no outside interference.

Obama's strategy is interjecting himself into NY politics and Id probably be kind of annoyed if I was from New York .  Kind of like when Chavez went to the UN and called Bush the devil, how fucking dare you come to my country and insult my President like that, as an American that is MY job.

[ Parent ]
I don't get the opposition at all
Particularly from Democrats. I mean most of us have complained about his seeming reluctance to get involved in races. Going back thru the general where he ony cut an ad for Merkley, thru the Georgia runoff to the NY-20 special and on. Can't have it both ways IMO.
[ Parent ]
If he decided to truly fuck over Paterson
then good.  
[ Parent ]
Correction
Israel needed a phone call publicly acknowledged. Not a public phone call.
[ Parent ]
Personally
I have no problem with a President asking for a Governor not to run for re-election. If he can't win, why would Obama want to lose a Governor in a critical state? Governor's will be people you look to to help you win impressive margins in a state. They help support your policies. They help you. Why would you not want as many of them with your views in the country as possible? So, if a sitting Governor of the Presidents party is asked not to run for re-election, whats the problem? Would there be a problem if a regular citizen asked him not to run for re-election? No. Now, if he demanded that he not run for re-election it would be a different story.  
[ Parent ]
Gore Stumps
for Corzine:

Gore, . . . deadpanned: "Elections matter."

He reminded the crowd of the differences between Democrats and Republicans on a range of issues including health care before warning them not to permit a Republican victory in the race for New Jersey's top elected post.

Gore dismissed the third candidate in the race - independent Chris Daggett, a former Department of Environmental Protection commissioner - as having no chance against the better-known and better-financed candidates.

"You could also throw your vote away and pretend you're not doing it," Gore said. "Let me tell you how that works out."


Hahah
I laughed at that last line.  If anyone knew about third parties fucking up elections, it would be Al Gore.

Now pardon my ignorance on NJ politics, but why did the incumbent governor poll so low early in this race?

20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)

[ Parent ]
Because Corzine is egotistical and
Completely incompetent but the state party machine continues to block any real primaries or fresh voices, like State Sen. Dick Codey who remains extremely popular in the state.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
Quit saying that
Whenever Corzine's name gets brought up even in passing, you keep saying that he's a complete egomaniac and tool of the machine, without giving a single shred of evidence that makes sense. Jonny's my guy, he's gotten good things done for the state, and I'm sticking with him no matter what happens this election cycle, so stop it.
[ Parent ]
Corzine has actually been a good effective governor
who has worked extremely hard to improve life for the people of New Jersey. The issue is that New Jersey voters like to whine and complain and if things are not perfect they blame whoever is incharge. In the end, I think that Chris Christie will be too toxic to win and this will put Corzine over the top. However, since New Jersey voters decide so late, the polls will continue to show a Christie lead until late October.
[ Parent ]
Strongly, strongly disagree.
Are you sure we're talking about the same guy? Because even if you could somehow reason that Jon Corzine has been a "good" governor, you still probably couldn't make a case that he's been "effective."

Corzine has repeatedly shown his ineptitude as NJ's chief executive. His administration has mismanaged programs like the affordable housing initiative into the ground, and has repeatedly failed to stop fiscal waste or deal with corruption, most notably in the case of the School Construction Corp. He's raised the income tax, the sales tax, and numerous others during his term, and we were still struggling to balance the budget. He's poured taxpayer dollars into urban areas with little to show for it, while punishing suburbs. His Department of Environmental Protection has provided endless red tape while cleaning up less toxic waste sites. And let's not forget EnCap. And on top of all this, his 40-in-4 property tax relief plan -- the one he campaigned on four years ago -- was never implemented. So now our property taxes are up 20%, and surprise, surprise they're the highest in the nation. (And suburban school districts are still scrimping.) Meanwhile, Gov. Corzine has repeatedly failed to deal with our very real budget problems, instead "kicking the can down the road" for four straight years.

The people of New Jersey hired Jon Corzine four years ago to fix our problems, or at least make a strong effort towards fixing them. He's failed at that task, and now it's time for New Jersey to fire Corzine. It's nice that we've got tighter gun control laws, civil unions for gay couples, and a robust farmland/open space preservation program. But those things aren't deal-breakers. Property taxes, managerial ineptitude, and wild fiscal irresponsibility are. Corzine has been a bad, ineffective governor.

[ Parent ]
Are you really denying his egotism?
I'm pretty sure a big ego is necessary to be successful in politics. Gov. Corzine is not only egotistical but delusional. He seems to believe that he's a lot more popular and well-liked than he actually is, in spite of polling to the contrary.

And I wouldn't stop you from voting for the Governor, but I have to take issue with your contention that "he's gotten good things done for the state." Sure, he did some good things, but he is also responsible for many, many bad things. In this case, the bad far outweighs the good. Gov. Corzine dug his own political grave.

[ Parent ]
I think the issue he had with
the Democratic controlled state house alone is a good enough example of that. As for being a product of the machine, whether or not he had direct control of that, the machine twice pushed out possible runs by the popular Dick Codey.

Beyond that, I say egotistical because it does take a very special type of egomaniac to spend more than one hundred million dollars of his own money basically buying major political races; that's very simply something that seems to me very obvious and self-indicated.

Maybe people in NJ like to complain too much-I feel they are validated. Backroom machine politics controls far too much in New Jersey and corruption is rampant.

As for Corzine's record, I had high hopes for him accomplishing something, but since he came to office four years ago I have seen very few positive accomplishments on his part.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Exactly
And now Codey may be forced out of the Senate Presidency -- not because he's unpopular with the people of New Jersey, but because the Norcross Machine wants their guy (Steve Sweeney) in that position.  
[ Parent ]
Just two, although I've seen some that certainly deserve to be on the list.
On the list:
1) "Yours, Mine, and Ours." I didn't think this one was all that bad. Solidly mediocre, but not one of the 100 worst of the past decade.
2) "Miss March." Yeah, this one was a disappointing disaster. I expected a really funny movie, given the hilariousness of the Whitest Kids U' Know TV show. Instead I got this mess.

I also came very close to seeing "Good Luck Chuck." If it wasn't for the bad reviews, I probably would have. And I'm thankfully that I skipped some of the other trash on the list.

I saw 4 on the list
My short reviews:

1. Delta Farce- Probably my all time favorite movie IMO.

2. Master of Disguise- Poor movie overall.

3. Larry the Cable Guy: Health Inspector- Ditto with Delta Farce

4. Christmas with the Kranks- I actually thought it was pretty good. Underrated movie IMO.

5. Deck the Halls- Meh. On the one hand, DeVito was good, but on the other hand, I don't really like Broderick that much(With the exceptions of Ferris Bueller's Day Off and The Cable Guy).

50, straight white male, Democrat(Dan Boren/Gene Taylor 2012!), AL-7(born in AL-5)

I saw "Showgirls" last night on HBO
It must be over ten years old because it sure was a stinker.
Show girls had some assets
Turning the volume off helps too.

Same with the one on the list I saw, Gigli.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, it is over ten years old.
But believe it or not, it wouldn't make the cut for the list even if it was released within the last ten years. Its Rotten Tomatoes rating is 14%, compared to 7% for #100 on this list!
[ Parent ]
I got one on the list
"The New Guy" which I found surprisingly good, or at least the first half was cause I like Eddie Griffin.

26, Male, Democrat, TX-26
NY-14
Keep Rep. Carolyn Maloney in your thoughts this weekend as her husband Clif Maloney passed away on a mountain-climbing expedition in the PRC this weekend at the age of 71.

22, Democrat, AZ-01
Peace. Love. Gabby.
Paterson is staying in the race
He said so on Meet the press this morning.

If Michael Jackon could stay in the race, why not David Paterson. And he has Charlie Rangel's support.

Primary is a long time
Next September. Plenty time to call it quits yet and Cuomo can sail in to save the day. Actually, if he isn't a candidate he can't really be attacked so it keeps the Repubs guessing.
[ Parent ]
NY-Gov
Some interesting quotes from Paterson's Meet the Press appearance:
"There's politics that go on all the time. I'm blind, but I'm not oblivious. I realize that there are people who don't want me to run. I've never gotten an explicit indication authorized from the White House that I shouldn't run. ... They certainly sent the message that they have concerns, and I appreciate that...."
"What I was trying to say is that I don't think someone's race should be the factor in assessing what kind of governor they are, what kind of president, or what kind of worker they are in any workplace. ... Let me clarify: I don't think race has been a factor in my poll numbers or my political fortune, or in how I govern my state."

The first quote seems to indicate that Gov. Paterson is blind and oblivious. With the second quote, he seems to be contradicting himself more than anything.  

Paterson lied in the second sentence. He actually is oblivious.
I read somewhere that the White House actually was acting at the behest of several New York state Dem. politians, who've been trying to get through to Paterson. That it's not like Obama suddenly decided to jump into New York politics uninvited, out of the blue.

Is that story accurate?
If so, then Obama is simply acting properly as the head of his political party (especially since we have such a weak, part-time head at the DNC presently).

[ Parent ]
If Paterson keeps up the rhetoric...
...I say expect a Giuliani announcement by December.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast
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