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VA-Gov: Two Polls Show Deeds Closing In, One Doesn't

by: James L.

Sun Sep 20, 2009 at 4:09 AM EDT


Three new polls have come out over the past few days of the Virginia gubernatorial race. Let's run through all three, starting with the newest.

Taylor Nelson Sofres for the Washington Post (9/14-17, likely voters, 8/11-14 in parens):

Creigh Deeds (D): 47 (39)
Bob McDonnell (R): 51 (54)
Undecided: 2 (7)
(MoE: ±3.1%)

WaPo has more on where these new Deeds voters are coming from:

Following news coverage of the thesis, the poll offers fresh evidence the tactic might be working: The percentage of likely voters who see McDonnell as "too conservative" has jumped 10 points since the August poll and corresponds with a double-digit increase in the number seeing Deeds as "just about right" ideologically. The percentage of independent female voters seeing McDonnell as too conservative is now significantly higher than it had been.

In August, independent women favored McDonnell 59 to 31 percent; now they split 50 percent for Deeds to 47 percent for McDonnell. [...]

In Northern Virginia, where statewide Democrats have been successful but Deeds was slow to win support, he now leads McDonnell, 57 to 40 percent, among likely voters. In the innermost Washington suburbs, Deeds leads 63 to 34 percent. A month ago, the two men were running about even in Northern Virginia.

Nearly half of likely voters, 46 percent, say they have heard a "great deal" or a "good amount" about the thesis, and among those who say it will affect their vote, the influence is broadly negative. Most, though, see the thesis as not having an impact, and very few -- less than 1 percent -- call the thesis the most important issue in the campaign.

However, GOP voters are still more pumped up about voting -- 36% of McDonnell supporters are "very enthusiastic" about voting for their candidate, while only 22% of Deeds supporters feel the same way. That's a higher score for both candidates than they received in last month's poll, but McDonnell had the bigger gain.

Less optimistic is the latest Research 2000 poll for Daily Kos (9/14-16, likely voters, 8/3-5 in parens):

Creigh Deeds (D): 43 (43)
Bob McDonnell (R): 50 (51)
Undecided: 7 (6)
(MoE: ±4%)

The needle barely budged here despite McDonnell's thesis blow-up. (Indeed, women prefer Deeds by only a three-point margin, which is barely changed from Deeds' one-point lead in August.) Others are reading the needle a little differently.

Rasmussen, which hasn't been earning too many accolades in the comments section lately, came in on Thursday with numbers that err on the side of TNS (9/16, likely voters, 8/10 in parens):

Creigh Deeds (D): 46 (41)
Bob McDonnell (R): 48 (49)
Undecided: 5 (7)
(MoE: ±4.5%)
James L. :: VA-Gov: Two Polls Show Deeds Closing In, One Doesn't
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I think
the undecided figures in the top box - past and present - have  been flipped?

Re: Rasmussen
I trust Rasmussen on this poll. It's only the ones where they aren't held accountable by an actual election that they are tools of the GOP.

Some Dude, 19, Democrat, NH-02 (residence), MA-08 (college)

I suspect the Kos numbers...
...are probably correct. At best, the first McDonnell/Deeds debate was a draw, and I think Deeds did himself no favors in that clip now circulating where he dodges questions on tax. I suspect, if anything, "thesis-gate" mostly just stopped McDonnell in his tracks from increasing on his lead, and yeah, he probably lost a 3-5% among women. But, until Deeds starts leading in the polls (which he should be doing after non-stop bad press for McDonnell), I'm keeping my money on the Republican.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

McDonnell should win this race
he is running a much better campaign than Deeds.

If McDonnell doesn't win (or barely wins), despite the low point in the economy and significantly more energized base, what it says is that the independent voters in this country are sending the Repubs a message, that is no matter how good your guy sounds and how bad the Dems are, we are not voting for any more right-wingers, period.  If you want our vote, you are going to have to nominate moderates.

That is the only card that Deeds has to play, that is I'm not an extremist.


VA
Washington Post and RAS both have Mcdonnell with small
lead.My rule on polling Is If you have 2 or more saying
one thing and 1 says something else Is to buy those that
say the same thing.

Tim Kaine was down by 5 In September of 2005 and he won.
If Obama voters come out Deeds could still win with big
turnout In Northen Virginia.

I can bet a lot of Media coverage if both VA and NJ go
Republican but If one stays Democrat or both COrzine and
Deeds preveil you will not hear much from the Media.  


Good
If this is right, then it's within the range that makes a win possible.

Deeds and Corzine could possibly bare win
by around 1%

Yeah
Naive as it may sound, I would venture to say that both Democrats will both win. Both states seem to be following the patterns of the past decade.

New Jersey always flirts with Republicans but marries the Democrat in the end. We have seen this with Torricelli (who had to drop out), Menendez, and Lautenburg to a certain extent.

Tim Kaine and Jim Webb were both underdogs throughout most of their races and had nice finishes. Some of it was circumstantial (Macaca), but it appears the circumstances are working our way this time again. Deeds closed well with that primary, and closed well against McDonnell in 2005.

Perhaps I am blindingly optimistic, but I wouldn't be surprised if both Democrats pulled the upset off.  


[ Parent ]
Deeds
Deeds was never supposed to win the primary, either.  Watch in these last weeks--I like Deeds' chances.

Margins aside, every pollster's trend is Deeds gaining, even R2K......
Yes it's statistically insignificant, but DK/R2K at least showed McDonnell's lead narrowing from 8 to 7.  And that's at least consistent with all pollsters' trends, which is that Deeds is gaining.  Even SUSA which is the only one left still showing McDonnell by double digits showed, early this month, a 12-point race that was 3 points closer than SUSA's previous 15-point margin.  The only debate is over the rate of closing, not whether it's happening.  And given that we're still 6 weeks out, Deeds is still OK even if slow closing is closer to the truth than fast closing.  And, of course, that SUSA poll I just mentioned already is 2 weeks older than the polls this past week.

Basically the last 4 polls, all the past week, show the margin at 2, 4, 5, and 7, which is ultimately a margin-of-error difference with the totality properly characterized as "mid-single digits" for McDonnell.  I would have been happy if we didn't reach that characterization for another 3 weeks, and I'm ecstatic we're there already.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


My current prediction is that we win both
Corzine will (like every Dem) overperform his poll number and the final tally will be
44% Corzine
43% Christie
12% Daggett
1% Other
Corzine will win by a margin of 20,000 to 25,000 votes.
Virginia will be much closer and will be an absolute nail bitter on election night.
50% Deeds
50% McDonnell
With Deeds winning by less than 400 votes.
This Virginia race will not be officially decided for a couple of weeks or even a month but eventually Deeds will previal unless McDonnell decideds to pull a Norm Coleman but there will definatly be a recount in Virginia.
In addition, both NJ and VA have Dem SOS so Im not to worry in the case of nail bitter elections.

Victory in '09!


I don't trust at all that Daggett will draw anything......
Third-party and independent candidates always overperform in pre-election polls, sometimes by a lot, compared to election day when they fade away into a barely-registering statistical blip.  Where independents and third-party candidates do well is in one of two scenarios:  (1) in states where they consistently do well, like Minnesota or Alaska or Maine; or (2) the third wheel has money and/or organization to actually earn serious numbers of votes.  New Jersey has no history of a third wheel drawing support, and I haven't heard that Daggett has any money for big paid media buys or personal organization (he's never run for anything major and isn't any kind of cult of personality like Ron Paul).

So I'll be shocked if Daggett draws anything close to what some of these polls suggest.  I expect he'll end up at 1-3%, and the winner will have to get real close to 50 to win.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I actually disagree on MN
There's a long history in MN of IP candidates polling in the 10-15% range and then collapsing in the final weeks -- or, in Tim Penny's case, polling in the lead and then collapsing to 16%.  What made the 2008 Senate race different for Barkley was that both major-party candidates were absolutely reviled by the electorate.  15% of Minnesotans threw away their vote on Barkley because 15% of Minnesotans honestly didn't care which d-bag won the election.

We're seeing a similar dynamic in NJ, where both Corzine and Christie are absolutely hated by most voters (and for good reason).  I tend to think Daggett's numbers won't collapse and may even strengthen during the final weeks.

The Crolian Progressive: as great an adventure as ever I heard of...


[ Parent ]
If you're right..
then the VA-Gov race will be the mirror opposite of the AG race 4 years ago, when McDonnell won by 323 votes.

[ Parent ]
Washington Post
The WaPo is hardly an objective source. It's essentially a wing of the Creigh Deeds campaign.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/...


Now we have an ignorant GOP troll here......
This site has successfully avoided you people for a long time, I suppose it's a given once in awhile one of you slips through and sullies what without you is highly intelligent and well-informed campaign talk.

As if responding to your specific point is even required with this knowledgeable Democratic crowd, WaPo's polling consistently is the most accurate in Maryland and Virginia, your ignorant whining aside.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I'm not a troll
I read the WaPo every day in college for three years, so I don't think I am ignorant about the paper. It has an obvious bias towards the Deeds campaign and you have to take into account the source when analyzing polls.

[ Parent ]
You're accusing WaPo of cooking their poll?
That's a pretty serious charge. Do you have any evidence of them ever doing that in the past?  

[ Parent ]
They've never cooked anything, InRepublican is ignorant as I said......
What I like about this site is the high level of campaign and elections knowledge, including polling knowledge the regulars bring to the table.  This "InRepublican" character posts crap here straight from the comments appended to any Politico story, by political junkies who never learns anything about politics.  Along those lines, instead of analyzing the poll itself, including question wording and the sample size and makeup, and compared to recent electorates and election results, and so on, he just posts an ignorant line about the WaPo being liberal, therefore the poll is no good.

In fact WaPo election polling is consistently the most reliable for Virginia and Maryland races.  I trust other outfits, too, and ultimately the totality of polling as always, but if I want to see one poll more than any other for Virginia or Maryland, it's WaPo.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
This is not a credible charge
Editorially, I'd say the WP is centrist, slightly edging toward center-right (and obsessed with bipartisanship).

I have yet to see any serious argument that their polls have a systematic bias in any particular direction.

InRepublican - if you actually want to make such an argument, then make it.  Flinging accusations around with no visible support won't get you very far around here.


[ Parent ]
JR12 is right. InRepublican, you're not on just any blog here, you're with...
...what may be the most knowledgeable group of commenters on any political site.  The crowd here know campaigns and elections extremely well and don't suffer ignorance well.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
Don't tell the people at redstate that, lol
n/t

20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)

[ Parent ]
I read redstate
every just for the shits and giggles of it.  Those people fascinate me...

[ Parent ]
One article was called
'Joe McCarthy was right.' not joking. crazy people....

[ Parent ]
I read it as well
Just to see what they are saying.  Its pretty pathetic.

20, Male, Democrat, CA-44 (home) CA-12 (college)

[ Parent ]
They are the true
conspiracy theorists of the Republican Party.  Here I thought that the Dems were the ultimate conspiracy theorists (my bf's uncle has 9/11 was an inside job put on both sides and the back of his van....) but alas, I was proven wrong.  The far looney left cant even compare to the far looney right when it comes to making shit up.

You read through those comments and here you have one person say something extremely unfounded (Obama retraining youth to be his own personal army strong than the US military) and then the next person comments on it and takes it as fact, and then the next, and then the next, and by the time the game of telephone is over with, apparently Obama is plotting the genocide of the Deep South or something.


[ Parent ]
Media organizations, even ones with slants, are usually good about keeping bias out of their polls
Even Fox News has had polls that show good numbers for Democrats (although Fox does ask some strange questions on them).  Media orgs really don't want to look stupid by having bad polls.  

21, male, CA-15 (home and voting there), LA-2 (college)



[ Parent ]
That's true
Aside from some funky polls during 2004, Fox's polls have mostly been in the same neighborhood as their counterparts.

The only biased pollsters (aside from those put out by the parties themselves) are Rasmussen and Zogby. Zogby's traditional polls (not the internet ones, which were always lousy) used to be reliable or at least believable. Now, the whole outfit's gone to pot. Rassy, meanwhile, does get more accurate once we get w/in 1 month of the election, but they often produce screwy results before hand.


[ Parent ]
Warning
You are leveling an extremely serious charge with no evidence. (The Weekly Standard doesn't qualify as evidence.) Don't do this again.

[ Parent ]
BTW, it's worth looking
at the TNS internals. McDonnell's "too conservative" rating has gone up ten points in a month.  

More:
11. Do you think (NAME) would rely on his religious beliefs too much, too little or about the right amount when making policy decisions?

Among likely voters:
                                   Too     Too      About the       No
                                   much   little   right amount   opinion
a. Creigh Deeds            7      15          59                   18
b. Bob McDonnell        30       6          54                   10


[ Parent ]
2 verus 1
I'll go with significant Deeds momentum. I don't buy the post-debate flap is too problematic. I read about it before watching and expected much worse than it actually was. Meanwhile, Doug Wilder is still an ass.

http://washingtontimes.com/new...

Where does he get off spouting Republican talking points? It would be remarkable to hold either of these seats in November. He better endorse Deeds...


I don't begrudge Wilder his thoughts at all......
Most of what he says publicly is what a lot of Democrats and liberals think and say privately.  He chooses public candor.  Yeah it's off-message, but he's a private citizen now and not in a position to really hurt us with occasional off-message remarks.  And it all ends up giving his endorsement, if and when it actually arrives, more weight.  And yeah that might be egotistical, but it also ends up helping us since it's positive free media.  And maybe, just maybe, it really does matter to the black voting public, although I wonder if that's badly overestimated by what frankly is a white media and white political establishment whose knowledge of black voting behavior strikes me as suspect--full of assumptions, nary a data point or even an anecdote.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]

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