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NY-23: Republicans Nominate Scozzafava

by: James L.

Wed Jul 22, 2009 at 6:38 PM EDT


Politico:

Republican party leaders chose state Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava, a leading moderate in the state legislature, as their nominee to succeed Rep. John McHugh (R-N.Y.) in an upcoming special election.

The eleven Republican county chairmen within the 23rd Congressional District voted this afternoon, and Scozzafava won on the third ballot.

Scozzafava is a pretty rare breed these days -- a socially liberal (pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, labor-friendly) Republican, so it's a bit surprising that someone cut from her cloth could win a nomination battle in today's GOP. Then again, she was chosen by the 23rd District's county chairs, not the birther-dominated rank and file, so perhaps some sanity remains intact in the NY GOP intelligentsia these days. That said, she's going to run into some serious problems with the conservative base, and it seems unlikely that she'll win the Conservative Party's ballot line, especially if Democratic state Sen. Darrel Aubertine jumps into the fray. (Update: Just to be a bit clearer here, I don't think there's any chance of the Conservative Party endorsing Aubertine, but they could field their own candidate in order to flip the bird to the GOP.)

This also comes on the same day that a significant amount of oppo dirt was released on Scozzafava, who was vetted and courted by Democratic operatives as a potential party-switcher:

But their interest cooled after they found out her brother's business, Seaway Capital Partners, owed over $192,000 in unpaid state and federal taxes - which operatives thought could be a liability in the special election.

The conservative blog Red State -- one of her leading critics -- recently posted copies of the liens from the company's subsidiaries. On her legislative website, Scozzafava is listed as the COO of the company's investment arm, though she claims she hasn't had any direct ties to the company since 2007.

Not exactly the best press to receive on your launch date, huh? For what it's worth, the Republican online wingnut brigade is encouraging its readers to support Aubertine over Scozzafava. God bless those magnificent idiots.

RaceTracker wiki: NY-23
James L. :: NY-23: Republicans Nominate Scozzafava
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NY-23: Republicans Nominate Scozzafava | 102 comments
Red State
Do they have any idea how bad it would look for them to lose a second straight special election? What a gift to Obama and Democrats in general. I imagine it would also be a boost in VA and NJ.
My mind is somewhere else apparently...
Where was the other contested special election?  I can't remember.  
[ Parent ]
I was thinking NY-20
Murphy and Teh Disco.
[ Parent ]
NY-20
Scott Murphy-Jim Tedisco

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
I don't think it will be worth a damn in NJ.
It might conceivably help in VA on the fundraising side.

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08
[ Parent ]
This is so not worth Aubertine's Senate seat

Can't blame him for wanting promotion though

[ Parent ]
Well, he's a pol who will do what's best for him
But from my perspective, it would be very bad for him to leave the NY Senate.  
[ Parent ]
The NY State Senate is just about the most irrelevant body
in the country right now.  A seat in the House is far more important.  Redistricting is no longer an issue as the Assembly is surely going to be in D hands after 2010.  And (if he wins) we have all but two seats in the state, with an unfavorable map.  We should do no worse than that with a fair map.
[ Parent ]
Totally disagree
First, we can get an optimal map FOR US if we control the Senate. And second, if we can remap the Senate itself, lots of possibilities open up. In particular, marriage equality.  
[ Parent ]
If Aubertine's seat is filled by a Republican
We only need to win one Republican seat in 2010.  There are so many ancient Republicans in strongly Democratic districs.  Frank Padavan, Carl Marcellino, Dean Skelos, Kemp Hannon, and more.  One of those retires and we've probably got better than even odds to win their seat.  Each one will probably face a stiff challenge and could be defeated, especially Padavan who only won by 480 votes.  

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
The Senate WILL be remapped
There is no way the GOP will control the Assembly after 2010.

There are two choices for rapportionment, we get to partisan gerrymander, or a non-partisan plan is put in place.  Either way, the NY Senate will go Blue in 2012.

Not wanting a man to run to the House just to make it more likely that we partisan gerrymander than a non-partisan plan is actually kinda perverse.

[ Parent ]
Who do you think controlled the assembly
when the current senate map was passed?

I'm being entirely serious when I say that the Dems have to control the process to get a fair map.  

[ Parent ]
Yes, but we'll probably control the Gov.'s seat too
as long as Patterson/Coumo don't f' things up.  All we have to do is make a few Republican seats more compact and less gerrymandered and we win them.  

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
For once
I totally agree with andgarden. Jeopardizing control of the Senate is just about the most harmful thing Dems can do. It's not like we'd get some A+ congressional map and maybe only an A- map if the GOP holds the Senate after 2010. It's the difference between a good map that shores up several vulnerable Dems (Scott Murphy is not Ike Skelton), and a map that isn't a whole lot different from the status quo. If the GOP holds the Senate, they literally have a veto over anything we want.

And, as andgarden said, there's the hugely important matter of the Senate map itself. There's no reason why the Senate shouldn't be about 40-20 Dem with a proper, non-crazy map. Obama got 62% of the vote in NY State, and that's discounting for nrafter's otherwise-Democratic buddies in southern Queens who have no love for the guy. Bill Clinton got two-thirds of the two-party vote in 1996. If we can re-do the Senate map properly, we won't have to worry about it for a long while.

I absolutely do not want to bank on picking up more seats in 2010. We barely managed to pick up the bare minimum of two last year, and we also had some close calls of our own. Yes, there are some vulnerable GOPers, but the prophesied retirements and resignations have not materialized, and I would not be in the least bit surprised if we lost some seats as well.

Bottom line: If we don't hold the Senate in 2010, we will pay for it for at least a decade and possibly a lot longer.

[ Parent ]
The planets align--we agree!

[ Parent ]
All well and good in an ideal world
But if the guy wants to run well, it is what it is. Maybe you can argue the DCCC shouldn't be courting him but that is their job - to get the best possible candidate to win a certain race.
[ Parent ]
Indeed
Too bad the Governor has nothing to offer to keep him.
[ Parent ]
I disagree
At this point it seems certain that Dems will gain some additional seats even if they lose Aubertine's seat.

And I wouldn't be too sure the Independence Party woud endorse Aubertine, the have in the past.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
The chairman already committed to endorsing Aubertine
http://www.nydailynews.com/blo...

although the article notes that his motives may not be in the right place.

16, Male, MI-01

[ Parent ]
Indeed
but it doesn't matter, it will kill Schofazza.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
Cutting and pasting her name
To spell it correctly is killing me!
[ Parent ]
i know, trying to spell it is killing me as well
lol.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
DavidNYC
If we don't hold the Senate in 2010, we will pay for it for at least a decade and possibly a lot longer.

That's a bit dramatic, don't you think?  If we lose the senate (unlikely) then we'll end up with at worse an incumbent protection map that combines a Democrat and a Republican into one competitive district.  Even if we lose that it is still going to be a 25-3 or 26-2 map (if Aubertine wins).  Which isn't to bad if you consider where things stood in 2002.  And as for the Senate, if we lose it in 2010 I gaurantee that we'll win it back in 2012 or at least by the end of the decade no matter what the map looks like.  In fact we'll probably have a pretty sizable majority by then. Granted, things would be better for us if we hold it, But how are we going to "pay" if we lose the senate?

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
I know a few people
would like to get married in New York before the end of the next decade. Their ability to do that could easily hinge on who draws the NY Senate map in 2011.

And you would risk that and other important policy issues for one House seat.  

[ Parent ]
Do you really think that those 70 and 80
year old Republicans will still be holding their seats in Queens and Nassau Counties by then?  I don't.  We all know what direction New York State is moving.  The senate will move accordingly.

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
The held on last year, and the cycle before
It's a might big risk you propose, for almost no reward.  
[ Parent ]
Not all of them
Maltese and Trunzo lost, remember?

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
Both terrible years for Republicans in NY
If Paterson isn't pushed aside, there could be another one.
[ Parent ]
I am glad that you, as a non-NYer care about their local politics
I often see on political blogs that people are very indifferent when it comes to other states' local politics. In fact I remember a long-time blogger on a big political blog (without naming names, i dont like to drop names) who often use to say things like, "why should I care about what happens in another state? I dont live there. I just care about having another Democratic member of Congress". I know NY is a big state and gay marriage a big and passionate issue but still i am sure there are many who just are quite indifferent at their local issues...only caring about national issues and what happens in their own state.

Way I look at things is...everyone matters. Whether theyre in TX, NY, WV, AK, HI, etc. And I want whats best for everyone.  

[ Parent ]
Lousy policies
Granted, things would be better for us if we hold it, But how are we going to "pay" if we lose the senate?

With all kinds of lousy policies. The state legislature sucks, anyway, but it's even that much worse if Republicans are in control of the Senate. You may not care, but I'm a New Yorker, and I suffer from policies that, for example, hurt New York City as much as possible.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  

[ Parent ]
"There's no reason why the Senate shouldn't be about 40-20 Dem with a proper, non-crazy map"
That sentence just doesn't make any sense since we are going to get a "non-crazy" map.  

The only issue is if the tables are turned and we get a very gerrymandered map in our favor, versus just a getting a fair/non-crazy map.

[ Parent ]
Agreed
It seems more important to me to have the NY Senate be controlled by the Democratic party (esp when it comes to redistricting).  Would I vote for the moderate GOP just to keep Aubertine in the Senate?  Ouch, that's tough a choice!
[ Parent ]
Agreed.
Control of the State Assembly was never in doubt, Sheldon Silver will be speaker in 2012, no matter what.

We need to keep the State Senate to get a good plan forced through, for Assembly, Senate, and Congress.

There are ancient Republicans representing plenty of Democratic districts, but it's not like we took them out in 2008 either.

[ Parent ]
Out of curiosity
If Aubertine doesn't get into it, who's the next most likely Democrat in the race? Is there anyone else who's expressed an interest?
There are a number of other peeps considering it
The RaceTracker wiki has a pretty long list.  
[ Parent ]
Comments here
[ Parent ]
I thought Valesky said no a while ago
I know the candidates being talked about other than Aubertine are pretty second tier.  This guy named Oot I think sounded like the mostly likely candidate if not Aubertine.

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
Oops so he did

[ Parent ]
Taking bets
It's a huge assumption, and very likely wrong, since many conservatives may vote Dem in this race, but if Scozzafava wins, I'm taking bets on how long she remains a GOPer.  My call is six months or less...she doesn't have the Chafee pedigree holding her down and she seems more progressive than the Maine Twins.  Life sucks being a Javits-like Republican (at least ideologically, who knows if she's that good) in the significant minority in a very conservative and intolerant Republican Party.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01
Given Scozzafava's centrism
I'd initially think this was a pretty good score for the GOP.  But I forgot that in NY, there are other ballot lines, and the Conservative Party could easily endorse someone else and cost her a good 5%.  Heck, if the Conservatives endorse Aubertine instead of one of their own, that would be equivalent to a 10% shift instead of 5%.

Aubertine with every ballot line except the GOP one wins this election, hands down.

How very NY-13

[ Parent ]
That's a shame
A popular liberal State Senator is getting the nomination if the part that doesn't appreciate her.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12
She's an assemblywoman.
Not a state senator.
[ Parent ]
Update
The guy that spent $500k on trying to beat her might be a decent shot for the conservative line.
Red State is right for once
If the Conservative Party backs her, they should be stuck with her for decades (absent massive gerrymandering).  

On the other hand, if Aubertine wins, he can be opposed in 2010 by someone more conservative, and in line with Red State philosophy.

Put another way, Cao for 2 years is better than Jefferson for another 20 years.

That's a dangerous game
Unlike LA-02, NY-23 is a swing district. If Aubertine wins, he'll probably be around for a while.
[ Parent ]
Possibly, but if Scozzafava wins she will be there forever
This no primaries way of doing things is very sucky.

And seriously, she is probably to the left of him, so why should they even care which one wins?  They should just choose the action that makes their philosophy have the best chance in 2010.

A primary against her will never, ever work if she wins.  A general against him if he wins has at least a 40% chance of winning.  It's basically a no brainer for Red State to oppose her... 40% in 2010 is better than 0%.

[ Parent ]
Primary her in 2010.
Primaries against GOP incumbents have an incredible track record lately.  Joe Schwartz, Wayne Gilchrest, Chris Cannon, and Arlen Specter can tell you all about it.  Even Bob Bennett has a serious primary on his hands!

I do not believe that a one-term-freshman, pro-gay-marriage Dede Scozzafava would be likely to survive a primary, though it is possible she could.  Remember, she isn't facing the GOP electorate this time either, the party chairs are choosing her.  And she'll be deep in the minority, unable to deliver pork, and the Democratic majority will be doing her no favors either as they'll want to unseat or perhaps redistrict her also.

She will be in a more tenuous position than almost anyone else in Congress.  At least Walt Minnick and Frank Kratovil don't have primaries to worry about!!

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08

[ Parent ]
I agree with the above poster
She will have to face a primary ni 2010 ad would likely lose. Remember even Sherwood Boehlert used to have to go through a stressful primary challenge every cycle, eventually one of the things that drove him to retirement. He became the sort of party expert on fighting primary challenges. But Schofazza is no Boehlert and won't survive a tough primary challenge, which makes me wonder why she's choosing to run as a Republican instead of as a Democrat, were she could completely vote her conscience with no pressures to the contrary.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus
[ Parent ]
How familiar are you with the district?
I'm not very familiar with it, so I'm not going to assume that a liberal Republican might not be the best fit for the district, including its Republican residents.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
Perfect fit
This is precisely the district type that liberal Republicans thrived in.  Eastern New York along the Hudson Valley and north into NY-23 was the cradle of liberal Rockefeller Republicans.  The base might have shifted.  I suspect many of those of those old Republicans are now Dems, leaving a more conservative remnant.  Either way, Scozzafava is going to find life hard if and when she gets to Washington.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01
[ Parent ]
Wow
This could set up a pro-choice Republican vs. a pro-life Democrat fight. Pretty rare in politics these days. In fact i wouldnt be surprised if Scozzafava is all-around more socially liberal than Aubertine is. As isnt he against gay marriage? Although he could still be against it and be against any federal const. amendment to ban it (not that itll even have a chance of passing anytime soon...if ever. probably not ever).

And while the GOP rank-and-file can be more conservative than the party establishment sometimes they often also can be more moderate. The polls definitely indicate they are more moderate on issues like health care and same sex civil unions.

Of course
Its the diehard rank and file that are much more likely to turn out in a primary, especially a special election.
[ Parent ]
Blue dogs
Is Scott Murphy a blue dog democrat?
Does it matter?
He isn't opposing Demicratic legislation whatever he calls himself.
[ Parent ]
The i should so not be next to the o!

[ Parent ]
As someone aspiring to be in politics
I know saying this could come back to bite me in the ass but whatever.

If Scozzafava is for gay marriage at the federal level as well as the state, I'm going to be extremely compelled to root for her.  I didnt get involved in politics and campaigns because I'm a Democrat, I got involved because I had George Bush as a president for 8 years and I became a pissed off queer.  We dont need this seat, it's a pick-up not a defense, it's EXTREMELY disheartening to hear that Aubertine is more conservative than Scozzafava and I'd much rather betray my party than betray the civil rights I know I deserve.  (Thank god I live in the Twin Cities and will never have to deal with an anti-gay marriage DFLer and a pro-gay marriage GOPer.  Its easy to say Im probably rooting for someone from a completely different state but I dont know if I could actually vote for them.)

Flame away!   :)

And dont anybody dare
compare me to some ideologue lefty wing-nut freak.  I'm just a pissed off queer who wants to get married some day.  I can certainly support my moderates and Blue Dogs, like when I told ArkDemRajin to back up off of Rep. Peterson when he redistricted him out of his seat in his MN redistricting.
[ Parent ]
If that is your only issue
I can completely understand that. Even if it is the most important issue of several I can understand it. Maybe it is easy for me say but I simply cannot imagine not supporting a Democrat over a Republican unles there were a number of mitigating circumstances. Personally, I like to look at the big picture and make a judgment from there. Again, easy for me to say that when I don't have to walk in you shoes I know. And totally respect where you are coming from.  
[ Parent ]
I can completely understand, too
I am an Independent but even if i were a loyal Dem I could understand it.

I know many dont like the comparisons and i can understand that, too, but itd be like a black person voting for a pro-civil rights Republican against an anti-civil rights Democrat back during 50s, 60s, 70s, etc. And I am sure there were such battles. Maybe even in my own state of Texas, especially in mix suburban/rural and white collar/blue collar districts.

[ Parent ]
I did not mean to compare Aubertine with an anti-civil rights politician
In fact Aubertine may be otherwise good on gay rights issues other than marriage. I just meant...just like how i can understand a black Democrat voting for a pro-civil rights Republican over an anti-civil rights Dem i can understand a gay Dem voting for a pro-gay marriage Republican against an anti-gay marriage Dem.
[ Parent ]
True
Then it was the Democrats under Lyndon Johnson that passed the Civil Rights act despite the objections of those Southern Dems. You see the similarity?
[ Parent ]
Also like being happy to support a pro-life Dem
When you know the party as a whole is going to carry the day on the issue. Just what I was trying to say by looking at the big picture. Maybe we need to find out more about Aubertine on these other issues.
[ Parent ]
I do think we should look at the whole picture
I agree. I just meant i can understand where a gay Dem is coming from.  
[ Parent ]
Me too
100%
[ Parent ]
I do
Although on gay rights issues i do seriously doubt there will be a federal vote for gay marriage being taken up. maybe in another 10-20 years but not now. the closest thing will be another vote for or against a Const. Amend. to ban gay marriage which probably wont be taken up again anytime soon. if ever. and Aubertine may be against such an amendment, who knows.
[ Parent ]
But i can understand the symbolism
of wanting a pro-gay marriage legislator rather than an anti one.
[ Parent ]
In fact you see it all the time
With a pro or anti Roe v Wade legislator. Even though it really doesnt make a darn bit of difference where they stand. as its not gonna be taken up in the Congress.
[ Parent ]
It's more than gay marriage.
If she's pro-gay marriage, she's likely supportive of other priorities like repealing DADT and getting ENDA done (if that gets revived).

But yeah, there's symbolism there.  As much as I hate Republicans getting a boost, we need some serious bipartisanship on this issue.

[ Parent ]
Republicans helped a lot
Senate Minority Leader C. Everett Dirksen helped shepherd the 1968 Civil Rights Act through the Senate. As a matter of fact, the bill that was passed was the Dirksen Substitute, which was even stronger on civil rights than the original bill.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  
[ Parent ]
I agree
the Dems should just put her up on their line. Come 2010 we are not going to get a 28-0 Dem map. Might as well make her the one Republican that we keep in a 27-1 or 26-2 map. Everyone wins that way. And Democrats may not gain a member in name, but gain one in ideology. They'll have a liberal Republican house member that'll vote for their legislation...preventing Republican obstructionist PR.

Aubertine should stay in the State Senate until we have an outright majority and redistrict out all the damn Republicans in New York.  

[ Parent ]
Didnt the GOP
Consider endorsing Mike McMahon in the Staten Island-based district? So I guess its always a possibility, but the other way around of course.
[ Parent ]
That was the Conservative line wasn't it?

[ Parent ]
Yeah
The GOP flailed around, clearly in absolute agony over the idea of being forced to give their line to Straniere, but they never ever considered endorsing McMahon.
[ Parent ]
I dunno...
Seems like I vaguely remember some local GOP politico floating that because of the distaste many had for Straniere. I'm sure it was shot down quickly, but seems like I remember that.
[ Parent ]
I don't remember that...
That's not to say someone didn't suggest it, though. Certainly some Republicans endorsed McMahon. Jamshad Wyne, the treasurer of the Richmond Co. GOP, endorsed McMahon back in May, but later went on to jump into the GOP primary (losing to the Wiener King).
[ Parent ]
I remember that too.
The idea, presumably, was to avoid having to run a horrible candidate who would get some truly embarrassing percentage of the vote, like 24%, and cause infighting with other GOP campaigns as well, by just endorsing McMahon also.  Then the size of his victory would be somewhat obscured.  (Though you could keep score of how many votes for McMahon were on the GOP line, I guess.)

Anyway, that clearly didn't go through but I also feel like I remember a trial balloon going up about it.

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08

[ Parent ]
She would be the most liberal Republican
in the House. So she will be courted by the Dems more than dime-a-dozen 'Blue Dog' (im assuming he would be) Aubertine would. Only bad thing about her winning, other than having an R next to her name, is she might be a pretty good Republican for statewide office someday. Im not sure of her age, though. Obviously shed need to survive a GOP primary but shed have alot of upstate GOP support just because shes, well, from upstate but also alot of socially moderate/liberal downstate support. Although im sure shes quite conservative on guns, as most upstate Repubs (and probably Dems, too) are.
[ Parent ]
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves...
She did say that she would not have supported cap and trade (which McHugh did vote for), after all.
[ Parent ]
I feel your pain.
Luckily, this isn't usually the situation, but at some point we have to ask ourselves whether we're supporting the party for the party or for the issues.

This is a single House seat, and I'm of the opinion that Aubertine should stay in the State Senate and preventing another freaking stalemate, as that's much more important than adding another House.

I'm not in the district so I can vote, and I'm flat broke and won't be working again until Jan., so donations are out of the question, so I guess it's all academic at this point.

I guess we'll have to see how it shapes up.

[ Parent ]
Another reason the Dem establishment shouldnt want him
Do they really want social progressive groups (NOW, NARAL, HRC, etc) saying that they support the Republican rather than the Democrat? That wouldnt be good PR.  
[ Parent ]
Sure it happens alot
But typically not in open races. Its just when the Republican is the incumbent and has a proven track record, in that position, of supporting their cause. but theyll almost always go with the Dem in an open race, though usually because the Dem is, well, more to their liking. They are officially non-partisan so that is usually why.
[ Parent ]
PR will be even worse for Republicans
if Aubertine wins.  And NARAL and NOW can endorse whomever they want that only drives Conservatives away from Scozzafava and makes it easier for Aubertine to win, so by all means, endorse her.

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
Well
How about getting Aubertine into Congress and Scozzafasa into his State Senate seat then? A pro-gay marriage member of Congress isn't going to make a lick of difference, but another pro-gay marriage State Senator would put New York one step closer to marriage equality.
[ Parent ]
Because control of that body
is at stake, and that's a much larger overriding issue.

She is a Republican still.  If control of the U.S. House was at stake, I'd feel MUCH different.

[ Parent ]
Can someone decipher these
http://www.votesmart.org/votin...

http://www.votesmart.org/votin...

At a glance I'd say on economic issues Scozzafava would be with the national GOP and Aubertine would be a decent party-line vote. Both pro-gun as you would expect from Upstaters. Nothing on abortion obviously.

The special election will probably be based on the national issue du jour
That's probably going to be health care reform and cap and trade. It's certainly not going to be gay marriage and abortion. I imagine the people of NY-23 are likely to support the liberal positions on health care reform and on environmental legislation. NY-23 is right next to Canada, so it will be hard to lie to them about how awful socialized medicine is.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12
The new Upstate NY Democratic delegation is an interesting experiment
All these new Democratic Congressmen have been elected since 2006.  They all had different backgrounds before they got elected to Congress. And now it's interesting to see what they do in Congress, and how they vote. It's kind of like building the party from scratch because these are so many seats in the same region that haven't elected Democrats before.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12
I think the east is like NH
and the west is a bit midwestern.  
[ Parent ]
If the Republicans can nominate a pro-choice candidate, why can't we?
If Darrel Aubertine ends up being the Democratic nominee, I'm going to be left with no choice but to support Dede Scozzafava.  I can not, in good conscience, support an anti-choice candidate over a pro-choice one.

As a side note, I'm getting really goddamn sick and tired of the Democrats throwing women's rights overboard by running anti-choice candidates in purple or blue districts or states.  I'm not unreasonable.  I can understand running anti-choice candidates in super-red districts or states that wouldn't vote for a pro-choice candidate in a million years, but other than that, there's no excuse for it.

And it's not just women's rights that are being affected.  Right now, at this very moment, the anti-choice Democrats in the house are holding health care reform hostage to their fanatical anti-abortion zealotry.

Do you really think that the government should pay for abortions?
I don't and that's what Bart Stupak and other Dems are trying to prevent.

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
abortion
Yes, the government should pay for abortions.  Abortion is a legal and necessary medical procedure.  Forcing poor women to remain pregnant against their will is sexist and I'll have no part of it.

Anti-choicers make the arguement that people shouldn't be forced to pay taxes for things they don't support.

I do not support my tax dollars being used to give military aid to Israel, yet I have no choice in the matter.

So if I don't get a choice as to whether or not my tax dollars are used to give military aid to Israel, why should anti-choicers get a choice as to whether or not their tax dollars are used to pay for abortions.

If the Democrats stab women in the back by removing abortion coverage from the healthcare bill, I'll join the effort to kill the bill.

[ Parent ]
Of course it should
It shows how much progress the Republicans have made in pushing their extreme agenda over the last 25 years that any Democrat would think otherwise.

But we digress.  

[ Parent ]
Tax payers aren't gonna pay for abortions
under a public option. It's gonna be paid for by the people paying into the system.

Regarding my personal beliefs, I believe that the Government should pay for abortions, like any other legal medical procedure.  

[ Parent ]
I'm pro-choice too
And I understand and appreciate your level of frustration.  I don't know if you like my answer, but I, in good conscience, use the pro-choice/pro-life argument as a litmus test.  The GOP has used a lot of issues as "litmus tests" for their candidates.  This is probably why Arlen Specter defected to the Democrats because he didn't meet the litmus tests and knew he was going to be primaried.  I don't want the Democrats to use the same tactics as the Republicans.

The Democratic party is a big tent party.  Harry Reid is a pro-lifer, but he holds the same ideas and principles as most of the mainstream Democrats.  He voted for FMLA, which I think is very pro-women (and pro-family) legislation.

Aubertine may not be the most ideal Democratic candidate.  I wish we could have done a better job in selecting a Democratic nominee.  However, I don't think Scozzafava will be a great house member.  Dede was against Cap and Trade, and I also imagine that Dede won't be as liberal as many think because the GOP will level a lot of pressure to vote on bills in a certain manner.

40, male, Democrat, NC-04

[ Parent ]
I agree with the distinguished poster from NC
Knowing how the House works, it is unlikely that Aubertine will vote with us less than Scozzafava. She appears to be against us on economic issues, while Aubertine is in line with us. On the social issues she is with us, most of these will not come up for a vote in the house in the near future. Gay marriage will not see the floor in a Democratic house, and there will be few votes dealing with abortion. If we want to continue to move a progressive agenda, we need to keep the Republicans down. If they win this election, they gain valuable momentum, which they can use to increase fundraising and beat Democrats we cannot afford to lose.
[ Parent ]
Right
I expect Aubertine would probably vote like 2006-2008 Kirsten Gillibrand, which isn't bad at all for a Repub. seat in upstate NY. Scozzafava would probably be something like Chris Shays was.  I'd take Kirsten Gillibrand over Chris Shays any day.

16, Male, MI-01
[ Parent ]
And as we know
Most of these divisive social issues have alot to do with economics anyway.
[ Parent ]
Economic issues
I wonder if she really is against us on economics.  I looked at the chart and, hard to decipher as it was, it did seem that way.  Yet, each cycle she ran, she got the left-of-Democratic Working Families endorsement, which is nearly a stamp of social-democratic approval.  That would be hard to do if she wasn't economically with us.  That said, her stance on cap-and-trade is really problematic.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01
[ Parent ]
Agree with this completely
Dems could use Aubertine's vote on economic issues - issues where Scozzafava would help won't even come up for a vote with Dems in control. Big picture again. These litmus tests don't do anybody any good at all.
[ Parent ]
Maybe I have missed it
But I have not heard abortion being talked about by any Democrat in the health care debate. But as said, maybe i have missed it.
[ Parent ]
NY-23: Republicans Nominate Scozzafava | 102 comments

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