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NJ-Gov: Corzine Still in Deep Hole; SSP Moves Race to "Lean R"

by: DavidNYC

Wed Jul 15, 2009 at 2:02 AM EDT


Quinnipiac University (7/8-12, likely voters, 6/3-8 in parens):

Jon Corzine (D-inc): 41 (40)
Chris Christie (R): 53 (50)
Undecided: 6 (9)
(MoE: ±2.5%)

Optimists like to point out that New Jersey seems to hate all its politicians, but hates Republicans a little bit more. This would explain why the Garden State GOP hasn't won a single statewide race since 1997, and hasn't won by more than a single percentage point since 1985. So it's certainly tempting to think that Jon Corzine might sweat this one out like so many of his Democratic predecessors have.

But this race simply feels different. In particular, the economy - and the deep unhappiness it engenders - weighs more heavily than at almost any time in recent or even distant memory. The traditional unemployment rate is almost 9% in Jersey. Broader measures like the U6 are much worse. Painful budget cuts have been made. And Corzine has also stumbled on his own, like with his series of failed plans involving the always-sensitive issue of turnpike tolls. Like it or not - fair or not - the folks in power get blamed when things go to hell. If you're a guy like Jon Corzine, who didn't start off with high approvals and goodwill to burn, it puts you in a very precarious spot.

Ordinarily, we don't like to move races with unindicted incumbents past "Tossup." But there's nothing ordinary about 2009, or these poll numbers:

If you want to see what a classic "Jersey Dem sweats one out" race looks like, check out this chart of Bob Menendez vs. Tom Kean, Jr. from 2006 (turn off "poll results" to better see the trendlines):

Sure, Menendez definitely started perspiring a bit  in September, but he never spent months lagging by double digits. He also benefitted from a good economy and a huge Democratic wave - and he wasn't an incumbent with anemic favorables.

Back in 2009, things have picked up somewhat for Corzine in recent months, but his Republican opponent, Chris Christie, has also steadily improved. And the other internals on this Q-poll are a lot more worrying. Corzine's job approval is at its lowest ever (33-60), his attacks on Christie for being close to Bush don't resonate at all with voters (only 10% call it a "fair criticism"), and the state legislature "generic ballot" is a virtual tie at 45D-43R (in a state where Dems otherwise hold wide margins in the lege).

This, of course, is just one poll - but pick apart any survey and you'll find plenty of bad news. The fact that Corzine leaked an internal allegedly showing him at 38% is perhaps most disturbing of all. Is this supposed to constitute good news? (The fact that no one's seen the full memo is also telling.)

We're also pretty troubled by word that Corzine might tap a reality TV star (yes, you read that right) for the newly-created post of Lieutenant Governor. This is beyond bizarre, and is reminiscent of John McCain picking Sarah Palin as his number two. Let's pray Corzine doesn't go this route - but it's not a heartening sign that he's considering something so gimmicky when he should be picking someone experienced and fit to succeed him if need be.

The one genuinely positive event on the horizon is the rally Obama is doing with Corzine on Thursday. But that's just a one-time event, and given how parsimoniously the President spends his political captial, I doubt Obama's going to attach himself to Corzine at the hip and drag him across the finish line in November.

As I say, this isn't a move we make lightly, but nonetheless we're changing the rating on NJ-Gov to "Lean Republican." This doesn't mean we think Corzine can't stage a comeback, or that Christie has this one in the bag. It simply means that he has the edge right now, something which seems hard to deny at this point. But if that changes, our rating will, too.

DavidNYC :: NJ-Gov: Corzine Still in Deep Hole; SSP Moves Race to "Lean R"
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EPIC WIN!
Holy Crap!  

This comment, whatever it may mean
Does not add value to this site.

[ Parent ]
Well
if it's approval for the rating change, I agree with it. If it's a cheerleading post, [shrug].

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  


[ Parent ]
Perdition
Actually it is Bev Perdue. But let me finish with Corzine first.

I wish he had retired when he had that big accident. Codey would have taken over (I hope). Sometimes (and increasingly more often) Corzine makes Paterson look like a statesman.

But one of the worst poll for a democratic governor comes from NC. And Bev Perdue engineered it all by herself. http://publicpolicypolling.blo...


oh for the love of god
I know everyone's loving to trash Corzine right now, but worse than Paterson? Seriously?

[ Parent ]
Haha @ Corzine response
Corzine's spokesperson said there is no way undecided's are 6 %, NJ is a late breaking state. Not a good defense. Sorry  

Chu (Judy) wins CA-32
http://latimesblogs.latimes.co...
I am in so much shock!  

This is not an open thread (eom)


[ Parent ]
Sorry
I've seen people add random bits of political news to threads about other topics before, and thought that was how ya'll got ya'lls news.  

[ Parent ]
It's discouraged
We prefer people to save tidbits for the open thread that we post every day (and twice on Fridays). Thanks.

[ Parent ]
Inept politician
Jon Corzine has to be the worst politician I have ever seen in Jersey.  Even when he does the right/popular thing he does it after months of saying he will pursue the other course so he gets no credit for it.

What has boosted Corzine in the past has been his money and so far the old spend like there is no tomorrow ways have disappeared.  In what could be a bad move, Corzine is actively raising funds from members of his administration (according to NJ.com).  Perhaps the leading candidate for his Lt-Gov slot is the winning candidate from a past addition of "The Apprentice."  No political background and yet another businessman (albeit a black businessman).

If Christie defines Christie, Corzine loses.  It may be too late but Corzine needs to try and given that the local media is solidly in Christie's pocket, he needs to push very hard.  In yet another weakness, Corzine has never been that available to the papers or advertised either there or on cable TV.  Guess who is lined up in Christie's corner: the local papers and the cable TV.  What a schmuck.


I wrote this race off a while ago
Democrats would be better off losing it. It doesn't do too much harm, the state legislature remains in Democratic hands, and it wouldn't make the state anything other than strongly Democratic.

In a way this race is just the epitome of why the state isn't 65% Democratic by now; the infuriating 1960s political view of the state Democratic party, which doesn't realize things have changed since then. They still control completely the process of who "gets" to run in major races, and they form a highly corrupt system of incompetence and kick backs and stop any sort of responsibility or accountability. Like I said, had the state party been able to change, become a modern party, stop rampant incompetence and corruption, the state would be much more Democratic. That's one of the big issues time and time again.

The state party was arrogant enough to let a meglomaniac buy it off and force Richard Codey out in 2005 and then prop up a failed highly unpopular incumbent in 2009, refusing to allow any primary challenge. NJ is the sort of party machine that is almost reminiscent of New York City in the 20th century; party bosses have control over everything. Truly the NJ Democratic party deserves this slap in the face from voters, they've been pushing them for a decade now.

We'll see if Christie can work with a D controlled legislature any better than Corzine.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus


Not a team player
Losing power will not reform the local party.  We did that already with Christie Todd Whitman.  Twice.  All they did was find a way to spend more money on advertising on the NY and Philly TV stations.

The standard operating procedure of late is to find somebody really rich and let him buy a lot of advertising on TV.  Lautenberg and Corzine rode the practice to repeated wins.  Only this time, for some reason, Corzine is not investing the $50 million or so he'll need to buy this one.

In his one try at elected politics, Christie was constantly feuding with other Republicans on the Morris County Board of Freeholders.  There is no way he'll work successfully with a Democratically controlled state legislature.  I doubt he could work with a Republican controlled legislature.  And since Christie acts like he is third in the food chain behind God and Karl Rove (see below for the scandal the local media refuses to cover), good luck.

He's a bigot, and he was unwilling to stand up to Karl Rove going from relatively honest to a complete Republican tool just to keep his job.  He also pulled strings to save his crooked stock swindler brother.  Christie is a retread of ex-Didgers reliever Terry Forster: a big tub of goo.  (that's a retread from the Yankees-Dodgers World Series of the late 70s and early 80s which were big out here).  He's also (amd this is our best chance) a pompous fool.


[ Parent ]
Great point
I don't see the NJ Democratic party changing its ways unless a political tsunami hits the state like what happened in NH in 2006.  The only thing that will happen is Christie is re-elected is that he will fight with the legislature and nothing will be accomplished.  At least Corzine's political views are tolerable.

BTW, one of my fondest memories of my childhood was watching the 1978 World Series.  That was my favorite World Series of all time.  My least favorite was the 1981 series, where the Yanks blew it after having a 2-0 series lead.  What the hell was Bob Lemon thinking when he had Bobby Murcer pinch hit for Tommy John in the 4th inning?  TJ was winning the game!

40, male, Democrat, NC-04


[ Parent ]
I agree very extensively

I take a somewhat better view of Corzine.  Yet I concluded a week or two ago that he's doomed on practical grounds.

He doesn't fit the model of the type of governor who succeeds in crappy economic times.  Bad economic times mean lots of positive plans can't be implemented.  But they present an opportunity to publicly identify, punish, and eliminate corruption, to fire patronage employees.  As well as to reorganize (partition, fuse, downsize, revamp etc.) dysfunctional government agencies.

New Jersey doesn't seem to be lacking in opportunities for those things.  Corzine isn't getting out in front and doing them for sadly obvious reasons, both personality and because he's too dependent on the machines.

Christie seems to be figuring out how to play it.  He needs a good target- some really corrupt Democratic machine politician.  If he finds one I suspect that will clinch the race.

I've heard rumors that passing gay marriage legalization is scheduled for the lame duck session this December.  I'm hoping it happens and that they also repeal some part of the vote disenfranchisement statutes.  Those would be accomplishments for Corzine to chalk up and things Christie wouldn't sign.


[ Parent ]
I don't know that there will ever be actual reform in New Jersey
Both parties operate like corrupt throwbacks to decades past, with the party bosses essentially picking the candidates (through the "party line" endorsements, and the "candidate drops out after the primary to install a different candidate" method that Andrews used to stay in his seat) and the ridiculous double-dipping allowing legislators hold local office as well. You just don't hear about it from the Republicans because they're essentially irrelevant in NJ state politics.

It's pretty obvious that neither party wants that to change, and they'll continue to have enough of a chokehold on the legislature (since it's incredibly difficult to get there without party backing) to prevent any reforms from occurring. It doesn't matter whether Corzine or Christie is governor (after all, Christie won the primary through the same "party line" system mentioned above).


[ Parent ]
And wasnt Menendez
A former big time Democratic Party boss? The head of the Hudson County Democratic Party. So it doesnt surprise me that he was able to get himself the Senate seat, although he certainly had enough experience for it (not only being a U.S. congressman but being in the leadership).  

[ Parent ]
Why it matters
Frank Lautenberg is in his 80s.  Christie would get to name his replacement should something happen to him.

[ Parent ]
Excellent point
Though a GOP placeholder would not survive a statewide race against any of the Dem Congressmen.  

[ Parent ]
Chris Smith might
I think Chris Smith with the advantage of incumbency would have a chance against a Democratic Congressman if it's not a good year for Democrats.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

[ Parent ]
Smith is good on many issues
Even some social issues (including the environment and gun control). But his very conservative (principled but still very conservative) stance on abortion could be his downfall.  

[ Parent ]
Some other interesting GOP names
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen, Rep. Leonard Lance and Rep. Frank LoBiondo. I doubt Garrett will seriously be considered given his very conservative profile. Frelinghuysen and LoBiondo dont seem interested in moving up but you never know...if it were offered to them on a silver platter. Like Burris they may want 'Senator' written on their grave. Frelinghuysen, despite his nay vote on the Climate Change bill, may be the strongest one as hes a very experienced pro-choice moderate. Lance is also a pro-choice moderate but not as experienced. Though hes certainly not young by any means (hes 57). Theres Wittman, too, but she doesnt seem interested at all in a return in politics. Afterall she didnt care to take on Lautenberg or Menendez.  

[ Parent ]
Err
Whitman. I really butchered her name there.

[ Parent ]
Whether or not they survive doesn't
matter if they have 6 months or even a year or more in the Senate to vote against Democratic interests.

[ Parent ]
Great point
And if Corzine is smart he would hammer that home in ads. Talking about Lautenberg possibly croaking or possibly having to resign because of an illness may look unethical...but it could very well be effective. And you know what...its a valid argument for re-election. I have no ethical issue with it. Lautenberg is in his 80s and statistically speaking...he wont be able to finish his term. So chances are he will have to be replaced.  

[ Parent ]
"Keep me in office
so that I can appoint the next senator when Lautenberg dies." Nope, I don't think that argument will win any votes. As a matter of fact, it sounds sleazy to me, and I think that voters would consider the argument insulting. He'll have to do better than that.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  


[ Parent ]
Well damn I never said to be *that* blunt, LOL
He can say it in a way that isnt so obvious. Politicians are good at that. Well, many are anyway. For example...in a TV ad when giving his very quick talking points (health care, education, etc.) he can say 'power to appoint future Senators if the time arises' or something along those lines. He doesnt need to have a pic of Lautenberg on the TV and say, in a morbid voice, 'well, hes in his 80s, and if he dies during his term, then he'll have to be replaced'.

It may be a tad sleazy but i dont think any sleazier than a year ago when people were saying we should pass health care reform 'before Ted Kennedy dies'. Of course that was before we all knew how quick health care reform would be passed.  


[ Parent ]
Subtle?
My impression of Corzine is that he isn't subtle. And anyway, I just don't think people will vote against the Republican because they care more about who's in the Senate than who's in the State House. If anything, they probably care more about who the Governor is than who their Senators are, as he would usually have more impact on their lives, through state taxation and funding policies. Do you think any significant number of people will say to themselves "Well, Corzine is an incompetent, annoying schmuck who raised my taxes and cut services, so I want to vote against him, but I don't want Christie appointing a Senator, so I'll hold my nose and reelect the idiot"? I'm not saying that's what _I_ think of Corzine, but it's clear that lots of voters must have a very negative opinion of him, which is why Christie is leading in the polls. Enough of the folks who are mad at Corzine need to have a compelling reason to hold their nose and vote for him, if he is to win, and I just can't see any way a potential Republican Senatorial appointment could be a winning issue. It's very marginal, at best.

Passing health care reform while Kennedy is alive is a strategy for the between-elections work of the Congress, not a winning election campaign plank.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
--  Will Rogers  


[ Parent ]
If Corzine picks Randall Pinkett, he deserves to lose
There is absolutely no reason why a reality TV star and generic entrepreneur type should be the first choice to be a heartbeat away from the governorship of a state with over 8 million residents. This is absolutely ridiculous, and seems like a blatant attempt to pander to black voters to get them to turn out in November.

Agree
It would be an asinine choice.  He'll become a laughingstock.

[ Parent ]
Codey would have been a popular choice
But I have a feeling he doesnt want it.

[ Parent ]
He's in real trouble
There's still a lot of time, but he's dug himself a deep hole.  He seems to be doing better in coalescing the base, but he's gettin killed among independents.  He'll have to narrow that gap significantly to have a chance to win.

You know I used to think Corzine was going to pull this one out
       But now I'm really starting to think he's doomed. Between his pick of a reality tv star (and I thought Mccain was desperate), and his continuing sagging numbers. Dare I say it, Jersey might go red this fall. I'm definitely starting to see a situation where we loose Jersey, but keep Virginia. After all the economy hasn't been hit as hard in Virginia as it has in New Jersey. I just hope the Democrat's win at least one of them, in the long run I don't know if it really makes a difference. But You know if we looses them both the Republicans will be taunting us like no tomorrow.

I agree with moving the race to Lean R
I also believe that Corzine will benefit from undecided voters in the late stages of the race.  However, when your opponent is polling 50+%, you are in trouble no matter how the undecideds break.


40, male, Democrat, NC-04

The correct move
There is still hope but less of it every day.

Re: state legislature margins
Anyone here know our margins in the NJ legislature and whether or not they would be in jeopardy?

NJ legislature
NJ Assembly is 48-32 Dem.
NJ Senate is a more narrow 23-17 Dem.
Not sure if there are term-limits.

[ Parent ]
No term limits
Also, the Senate is not up this year, just the Assembly.

[ Parent ]

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