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WY-Gov: When Would Freudenthal Have to File Suit to Overturn Term Limits?

by: DavidNYC

Thu Jul 02, 2009 at 12:31 PM EDT


Back in February, we learned about an intriguing possibility in the Wyoming governor's race - incumbent Dem Dave Freudenthal might seek to overturn the state's term-limit law, which would otherwise turn him out of office next year. How could he do this?

It turns out that back in 2004, Wyoming's Supreme Court struck down term limits that applied to state legislators. The court ruled that such limits could only be imposed by changing the state's constitution, not (as voters had attempted) via ballot initiative. Even though the same law covered both legislators and statewide officeholders (including the governor's office), for procedural reasons, the court limited its ruling to just the state lege. The court's explanation tells us quite a lot, though:

The parties have not addressed this issue, but we note that the constitutionality of a statute may only be questioned by a party whose rights are affected thereby. Likewise, a party cannot assert that a statute is unconstitutional as to other persons or classes of persons. These precepts suggest that the appellant legislators cannot raise the question of the constitutionality of the term limit law as it affects the qualifications for governor... and for secretary of state, auditor, treasurer, and superintendent of public instruction.....  Furthermore, the appellant voters have not alleged an inability to vote for particular candidates for the executive branch offices. Accordingly, we will limit our holding to those constitutional provisions involving legislative qualifications. (Citations removed.)

In other words, because no one had properly raised the gubernatorial issue, the court could not rule on it. But it sure sounds like they would have nuked gov term limits if only they could have. On the merits (ie, instituting term limits via ballot initiative vs. constitutional amendment), there just isn't any daylight between state legislative jobs and the governor's mansion.

It's rare to see something like this in the legal world, but if Freudenthal raised a challenge, it's almost impossible to see how gubernatorial term limits could survive. The real issues, then, are "will he?" and "when does he have to file suit?" As to the first question, a spokesman left the door wide open several months ago, and I haven't heard anything since.

And as far as timing goes, Freudenthal can afford to wait. The legislative term limits suit was filed in January of 2004 in district court (which sided with the plaintiffs), and was then appealed directly to the state supreme court, which ruled in May (upholding the lower court). It was a close shave because Wyoming's filing deadline was just a few weeks later, so Freudenthal probably wouldn't want to wait that long. On the flipside, as I suggest above, this case has basically already been argued and all but decided. It could probably get resolved in even less time than the original four-month-long suit.

So Freudenthal could probably wait another half year, maybe even longer. But personally, I think he should declare his intentions sooner rather than later, and if he decides to challenge the law, do it right away. While our chances of holding on to the governor's mansion would be slim without him running again, the uncertainty and delay will only make an already difficult challenge even harder for Democrats.

DavidNYC :: WY-Gov: When Would Freudenthal Have to File Suit to Overturn Term Limits?
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Does any of this matter for we outside Wyoming???......
I understand for Wyoming residents and transplanted Wyoming natives who still care about their home state's politics, this matters very much.

But for the rest of us, this doesn't matter at all, right?  Wyoming has one at-large Congressional seat with ZERO potential for a 2nd, so there's no Congressional seat redistricting.  The state is ruby red in Presidential contests, and even Obama who competed in so many longtime red states didn't give the state a first look.  And Freudenthal passed the last time a U.S. Senate seat was open, and now won't see another open Senate seat likely for a long time.

This all leaves me just shrugging over Freudenthal.


Agreed
And WY Supreme Court terms are only for 8 years, so there doesn't even seem to be much incentive there.

I guess he's just an easy add to the count.  


[ Parent ]
Environmental Law
Wyoming is an environmentalist's wet dream with how much open land there is. Freudenthal has been pretty good on the conservation end. Replace him with a Republican and expect to see a lot of the state's environmental protection laws to go out the window. A Republican in the Wyoming governor's mansion would probably act similar to Palin in a green sense, which I can assure you is a very bad thing.

So, there's a reason to keep him. It's only one, but it's a good one, I think.


[ Parent ]
Maybe
state legislature re-districting?

[ Parent ]
Well sure, but that only makes my point......
As I said in my original comment, I get it that Wyoming residents care, and even Wyoming natives who live elsewhere but still care about their home state's politics.

But the rest of us don't have a stake in state-level Wyoming politics.


[ Parent ]
I always care
About electing more Democrats everywhere, as a general principle.

[ Parent ]
Fair enough. (nm)
nm

[ Parent ]
And you never know
When having some Dem in office somewhere could make a difference on the national level. For instance, in Wyoming, the governor gets to appoint judges to the Supreme Court. Freudenthal is hardly a partisan, but I'd much rather have Democratic appointees on that court the next time there's an election contest.

After the super-close 2006 WY-AL race, Gary Trauner considered seeking a recount since there were reports of irregularities. Had he taken that route and had the election gone to the courts, we definitely would rather have had the case heard by Freudenthal picks.

So, it always matters. Even when we can't see the obvious angles, there are always non-obvious ones.


[ Parent ]
Betting Gov. Dave won't run
I am a big fan of Freudenthal, and I think that if he were able to run again, he would win with relative ease, as heavyweights like Colin Simpson would sit the election out.  Still you gotta figure that if he wanted to do run again, he would challenge the law quickly, since the closer the challenge is to 2010, the more it will become a negative issue in the race.  

Plus, word leaked out that the governor included his wife on a list of three potential names for an open federal judgeship that were forwarded to the administration.  While the first lady is an accomplished lawyer in Wyoming, that did not sit well with a lot of people, and it has led some to conclude Gov. Dave is going to retire.  Let's hope he challenges the provision, and soon.  


I gotta wonder
while I am pretty sure Freudenthal would win re-election if the term limits were overturned, I certainly could see such an action as hurting him. It would be viewed as a rather self serving act and going against the wishes of the people of WY.  

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.

Yeah, I've been wondering about that too.
It would seem, intuitively, that you'd have to get one governor kamikazeing himself or herself in order to overturn this through a court challenge.

I think we'll get a sacrificial flag-bearer running for WY-AL and Trauner running for WY-Gov.

In which case Trauner might actually win.

Bill Owens for Congress!


[ Parent ]
Wonder how the state legislators who
challenged it fared.  It would go along way of seeing how the people think.

[ Parent ]
I doubt it
Mike Bloomberg has mostly survived his successful attempt to overturn term limits in NYC, and his actions were a lot more brazen. In Wyoming, it would be a matter of overturning a statute which the high court has already ruled is unconstitutional. In NYC, Bloombo rammed through new legislation to serve his own self-interest. And yet here he is, mostly cruised to re-election.

Also, I don't think the state legislators who challenged the WY law paid a price at the polls, but I could be wrong about that.


[ Parent ]
But isn't there a perception in NYC that all the politicians are crooks anyway?
And if that's the case, what's it like in Wyoming?

Also, who challenged the law?  I'm assuming it's mostly Republican members of the legislature, is it?

Finally, a bunch of legislators challenging a law in order to help themselves is different from a single person, a higher-profile governor, doing the same.

Bill Owens for Congress!


[ Parent ]
NY politicians all crooks?
I think that New Yorkers think most politicians are crooked, but probably way less so in the case of a non-machine independently wealthy guy. Actually, that's why I was so surprised Bloomberg kissed ass at the Republican convention - I figured he had nothing to gain politically or financially and something to lose politically (and, as it turned out, also financially, I do believe) from doing that.

[ Parent ]
I am not a crook!
I mean, there are plenty of crooks like Pedro Espada. But despite his innumerable flaws, Bloombo has never been viewed as a "crook." Self-serving asshole, yes. Crook, no.

[ Parent ]
Hmm,
if I read the opinion of the Supreme Court correctly, Freudenthal wouldnt have to challenge the law, if only a voter challenges the law with the argument that the law hinders him unconstitutionally from voting for Freudenthal for a third time.

Perhaps that would avoid the negative implications of a lawsuit from Freudenthal against the law, if a Democratic voter would file that lawsuit instead of Freudenthal himself.  


Very good point
It appears that the Sup. Ct. was okay with granting voters standing to challenge the law. However, it might almost look worse if Freudenthal wasn't the plaintiff, because it could appear that he was deliberately trying to hide by putting some voters up to it.

[ Parent ]
Well,
it would either look like he was trying to hide it or it would hide it.  I'd take that risk.

Mad At Thad:  A Blog Devoted To Ousting Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, Republican - Michigan

[ Parent ]

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