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NC-Sen: Burr Under 50 Against All Comers

by: DavidNYC

Tue May 26, 2009 at 10:36 PM EDT


Public Policy Polling (PDF) (5/19-21, "North Carolina voters," Shuler trendlines from January). I've put each of the Dem candidates' favorables in brackets.

Elizabeth Edwards (D): 35
Richard Burr (R-inc): 46

Walter Dalton (D): 29 [24-29]
Richard Burr (R-inc): 48

Dan Blue (D): 33 [24-31]
Richard Burr (R-inc): 44

Richard Moore (D): 34 [36-25]
Richard Burr (R-inc): 47

Bob Etheridge (D): 31 [31-27]
Richard Burr (R-inc): 47

Heath Shuler (D): 28  (28) [25-25]
Richard Burr (R-inc): 44 (39)

Cal Cunningham (D): 34 [46-16] ‡
Richard Burr (R-inc): 42
(MoE: ±3.5%)

‡ Cal Cunningham is a one-term state Senator & Iraq veteran (more here). PPP tested him using a positive two-sentence bio as a lead-in, to compensate for his otherwise low name rec - hence the high favorables. A February poll without the bio showed Cunningham with a 10-23 approval rating (sort of odd, huh?), but still holding Burr to a 46-27 margin.

Here's how Tom Jensen of PPP sums up the situation:

Pulling together all the information we have, here's the state of the race: when Roy Cooper decided not to run Democrats lost the only candidate who would have made this an instant tossup. But Richard Burr is still in a vulnerable position pretty comparable to where Elizabeth Dole found herself at this time two years ago. But whoever the Democratic standard bearer ends up being will have to be molded into a formidable candidate, as Hagan was, rather than just inherently starting out as one.

Now Democrats are going to have to make a choice - do they get a Shuler or McIntyre who have big bank accounts and a good position from which to raise more or do they go more towards a Cunningham who might need more help raising money but can run as an outsider in an election cycle where not having any Washington taint could be a very good thing? It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

That sounds about right to me.

DavidNYC :: NC-Sen: Burr Under 50 Against All Comers
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one dif
Burr is exceptionally mediocre in every fashion, Dole was a political powerhouse.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

a political powerhouse ....you can't be serious
Elizabeth Dole was not then, nor has she ever been a political powerhouse. Everything she has achieved was off of her name and 'southern gal' persona.  

Her only electoral victory was in 2002, in the wake of 9/11 against a Bill Clinton-tainted geek in a (then) GOP majority state at the national level.  

Her polls numbers for the 2008 race sucked from day one and while Hagan was a good candidate, with a good campaign, there were probably at least a couple of other candidates that could have won also.  

Don't forget she didn't exactly set the world on fire when she ran for POTUS in 2000.  I seem to remember she was the first one to drop out, and it was long before the Iowa caucus. There was a reason for that.

Olympia Snowe is a political powerhouse, Kay Bailey Hutchinson is close to being one, Elizabeth Dole is/was an empty pantsuit.  

NC is DEFINITELY a winnable race, but it can't be taken for granted, particularly if Obama's popularity fades.          


[ Parent ]
Yeah, afterall
She did win by a larger margin against the same opponent that Burr beat in '04. I wouldn't say she was a "powerhouse", but it's pretty clear that she was better-known and better-liked at this point in the cycle than Burr currently is. On one hand you have Liddy Dole who ran the NRSC in '06-'07 (and I'm glad she did, because she did a terrible job), and on the other hand you have Burr who to many in North Carolina, would say "who?". Our Climate may be worse for 2010 (only time will tell that), but the incumbent certainly isn't.

[ Parent ]
Sort-of agree
I think she entered the Senate as a qualified and accomplished person who seemed to have the skills needed to be a good Senator.

And then she did NOTHING in her six years there, including almost never going back to North Carolina.

Once Kay Hagan showed herself as a solid candidate, I think a lot of people in North Carolina really asked themselves "Why does Elizabeth Dole want to be Senator?"  "What has she exactly done for us?"

Another thing -- the ad implying that Hagan was an athiest was perhaps the sleaziest of the entire last election cycle.


[ Parent ]
its even more a shame
that not being religious in this country is something you can attack them for in a political race, regardless of the blatantly false nature of the ad.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Give it time.
Obama's election is just the beginning.  There's no going back from here.

http://www.bluearkansasblog.com

[ Parent ]
I agree
"Liddy" Dole was a name and not a powerhouse.  Her connections with NC was that (a) she was born in NC (b) she lived there in her youth and (c) her mother lived in NC.  She had virtually no connections with NC.  The Democrats brought a weak candidate named Erskine Bowles, who was supposed to be another "name" candidate.  Of course, Bill Clinton wasn't very popular in NC in 2002 (his popularity has rebounded somewhat due to Bush).  Bowles' father, Skipper Bowles, was the first Democratic candidate for Governor to lose a race in the 20th century (he lost in 1972--he was painted as a Chapel Hill liberal).  The Dems didn't learn from history in 2004 either...Bowles had a "come from ahead loss" to Burr.

The Democrats need to select a promising candidate and not a retread.  As much as I like Richard Moore, his loss against Bev Perdue was ugly.  If he enters the race and wins the Democratic nomination, he will have an uphill battle.  I prefer we get someone who has a positive message and not someone who is feuding within the Democratic caucus.

40, male, Democrat, NC-04


[ Parent ]
You know, Clinton's personal diarist, Janis Kearney, was my professor and a friend.
She talked about Erskine Bowles and said he hated politics and always bemoaned the fact that he ever got himself involved in it.  What's the saying about not having the fire in your belly?

http://www.bluearkansasblog.com

[ Parent ]
This will be similar to the 2008 Race
In 2008, Republicans were near their low in popularity, and while Dole started of strong, she really screwed up in the end.

It seems to start more off in a middle ground leading to the 2010 race. Burr is no where near the level of strength that Dole had in this same point of the 2008 cycle, but he is less likely to make major mistakes in lieu of what happened to Dole. Plus 2010 will not be as disatrious for Republicans, and indeed a desire for divided goverment may very well keep Burr in office.

However, Burr will have a very difficult time running for reelection. The DSCC will need to spend alot of money in this race for the Democratic challanger, much more than if Cooper had jumped in, but the a Democrat is more than electable in North Carolina and their is more than enough time for them to be competive and possibly win.


Cal Cunningham intrigues me.
My gut feeling is that we should go with a non-Washington type again to knock off Burr, and Cunningham seems like the type to do that. I need to do more research on him before a verdict, though. Why did he only serve one term?

Redistricting
The legislature made his district overwhelmingly Republican.

28, Unenrolled, MA-08

[ Parent ]
It's too bad Elizabeth Edwards didnt really run
She is a god damn trooper and I think could win a Senate seat.  She has really capitalized (not the word I'd really want to use, involves too much self) on her husband's presidential runs and has shown her passion.

With that said, I'm looking forward to anyone, really.  Edwards would make my day though.


I don't know anything about Dan Blue.
That's the first I've ever heard his name mentioned.  Can someone fill me in?

On of the NC blogs was talking up Richard Moore, and from what I read he sounded pretty good, being pretty progressive minded on climate change, healthcare, and corporate accounability, although the way he went about supporting the death penalty, using religious language, was a little odd I thought.  He does have some baggage with the nasty Gov. primary behind him, but I still think he'd be pretty good.

http://www.bluearkansasblog.com


Blue
Blue is an African-American State Senator who was Speaker of the NC State House back in the early nineties.  Well respected in the NC political community.

[ Parent ]
I love how I'm always
about to poo-poo a statewide AA candidate in many states with NC being one but then go, wait, a black guy did win statewide in NC already at the federal level, :)

[ Parent ]
in '10 we'll be testing the next level
a brilliant AA with far more money than his opponent won for pres in '08.  now we'll be looking at artur davis for AL Gov, kendrick meek for FL Sen, Thurbert Baker for GA Gov, and conceivably Blue for NC Sen in '10.  

in most of these cases, the AA candidates will not enjoy a significant money advantage or the turnout that we had in '08.  many on this site ARE dismissive, also because none are the orators that obama was.

i'm sort of at the edge of my seat to find out.  if we win even one of these races, i think we can start to believe that these states and dems in the south in general have really turned a corner.


[ Parent ]
I think NC has made great progress
Back in 1990, Jesse Helms defeated Harvey Gantt by a small margin.  Helms ran the "hands" commercial, where the voice said something to the effect "You needed that job, and they hired a minority not as qualified as you.  Harvey Gantt is for affirmative action..."

I think if the same race was run in 2010, Gantt would have defeated Helms.  Helms had a history of making racially charged statements, and in NC the majority of the electorate would be offended by such a commercial.  

40, male, Democrat, NC-04


[ Parent ]
Helms would have lost
NC no longer has a majority willing to tolerate clear racism. That's not to say Gantt would have won. Helms would have lost because he would have been an embarassment.

NC is ready for a black Senator. Whether it's eager is another matter.

That said, I think it's a state where it's worth fighting for it. As racial animus dies down, those areas where Obama did reasonably amongst whites and there's a sizeable black population are the best places to fix the lamentable racial make-up of the Senate. Virginia, NC and Maryland could all easily support a black Senator. Maybe SC in 15 years and maybe Florida sooner. GA depending on how quickly it swings. Either way, I'd bet that at least 3 of those I've named elect a black Senator before Pennsylvania or Ohio.


[ Parent ]
Thank you
I agree with your sentiments.  

40, male, Democrat, NC-04

[ Parent ]
Same here.


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28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
Blue will have a hard time getting support with the NC Democratic party
Several years ago, Blue tried to retake the speaker of the house job away from Jim Black.  He had a few Democrats and most of the Republicans in the house supporting him.  It failed, and for a while Blue's name was tarnished in NC.  He lost in 2002 against Bowles too.  

Dan Blue is a fine politician, but it may be hard for the Democrats in NC to support him.  I would also like someone younger than Blue, too.

40, male, Democrat, NC-04


[ Parent ]
How old is he?
Is it just me or is there a lot of bad blood between your state's Democrats.  Between this with Blue, the gov race between Purdue and Moore, John Edwards' burned bridges, and some of the minor bitterness created in the Hagan/Neal race it seems like you guys just enjoy a good scrap up there.

http://www.bluearkansasblog.com

[ Parent ]
We love a good fight
Many people are registered as Democrats because of the long tradition of the Democratic party within NC.  Back when my parents grew up, if you wanted to vote in the primaries, you had to be a Democrat.  The GOP candidates were referred to as carpetbaggers.

As far as the Hagan/Neal race, it wasn't nearly as ugly as other races in the past.  Easley/Wicker was ugly, and so was Perdue/Moore.  Neal wasn't taken too seriously in NC.  Neal, being openly gay, wasn't well accepted with the culturally conservative Democrats.  Neal was also from Chapel Hill (where I live), and that is just as big of a strike against him.

As you can see, being a Democrat in NC doesn't mean we naturally support the winner of the primary.  We have been winning the majority of the statewide elections because the NC GOP party is controlled by the far right.  

40, male, Democrat, NC-04


[ Parent ]
Agree with you on this
Blue put himself ahead of the Democratic Party by joining with the GOP to become Speaker. Blue burned a lot of bridges within the party in the process.

Blue is 60.



[ Parent ]
why are there no trendlines for burr
that's seems like the most important number.  the dem numbers are more or less generic dem.  i don't know, but my sense is that this is a significant uptick for burr - from 42 or 43 to 46 in general.

and i don't know if Democrats really have any choice at all right now since not one serious democrat seems to want to run:(  if someone steps up (mcintyre, shuler, moore or cunningham), i think we'll embrace them.  i know that shuler is pretty right wing, but damn!  we gotta get moving here.


Probably just pushed leaners more
The numbers on both sides were ridiculously low last time. The rest I agree with.

[ Parent ]
We Should Emulate the Kay Hagan Model
And out of these possible candidates it looks like Cunningham is the candidate who can best do that.

How does he look like the best candidate exactly?
[ Parent ]
I'm Thinking
Of the anti-incumbent, fresh-face angle. Pretty much everyone else on this list should be fairly well-known - and yet they don't poll terribly well. Of course it doesn't hurt that I assume that he's to the Left of several of the others and that he has a bio that appears easy to market favorably in NC.

[ Parent ]
Well, wait a minute.
You're making a lot of assumptions there.  We don't know that the guy is more liberal than any of the others mentioned-there's nothing to base that off of.  While his military bio is nice, his brief stint in electoral politics is far from encouraging.

Remember, Kay Hagan wasn't a complete unknown.  She was a major player in the state legislature and the less liberal of the two options (though she's still great, far better than what we've seen from other "moderate" Democrats IMO).

http://www.bluearkansasblog.com


[ Parent ]
I don't understand any hype around Cal Cunningham
The guy is essentially a nobody. He's a one-term state legislator that has been out of public office since 2005 with zero name ID. If it's the Army reserve thing that excites you, why wouldn't you just go with Grier Martin who is actually active in state politics right now and is an Army reservist himself?  

People do like Martin
But he said he would take a powder.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

[ Parent ]

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