a real shame

its a real shame that the netroots wants to spend (see waste) millions of dollars attempting to primary a moderate Republican turned Democrat (attention all moderates....the Democrats don't want you either, go back to the Republicans) when that money can and should be spent in many other much more important races.  

Check out http://electioninspection.word... for the latest news, election results, poll analysis, and predictions

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by: skywrnchsr509 @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 22:28:00 PM UTC

It's a shame alright

It's a shame that there are so many in the Democratic Party that will blindly accept whatever self-serving, untrustworthy bullshit that calls itself a Democrat.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

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by: TheUnknown285 @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 23:03:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah it's a shame

It's a shame Arlen Specter fillibustered EFCA, cramdown, the nomination of Dawn Johnsen, voted against the Obama's budget, and said he won't be a loyal democrat.

He flip flops every other week, and he might have been a moderate republican, but he was still a republican, and was to the right of even conservative democrats like Blanche Lincoln.

This is an important race because the establishment will be defeated. And Obama will be convinced to put political capital into EFCA.

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by: johnnythebandit @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 04:55:36 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Specter or no Specter

EFCA isn't getting passed in this Congress unless you do something about Blanche, Pryor, and Ben Nelson, so even if Specter flips on EFCA (again) there's still the matter of getting those three back on board (and keeping other Senators like Warner, Bayh, Landrieu, Mark Udall, and Michael Bennett on board). If Obama spends political capital on EFCA and it loses, not only does Obama take a big hit (which will hurt his ability to get other parts of his agenda like health care, cap and trade, etc. passed) the labor unions will also take a huge hit, losing a lot of credibility.

Personally, I'm willing to give Specter a bit more time to get in line with his new political reality before I support a primary challenge (especially from someone like Sestak, who is still probably to the right of someone like Bob Casey Jr.) but if he doesn't, I'll gladly support a challenge by Sestak.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!

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by: DGM @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 14:56:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not in it's current form

Though there seems to be a compromise agreement that would have the votes to pass.  The key difference would be that it would keep the ballots secret and they would be mailed in rather than handed in in person.

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by: ChadInFL @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 15:08:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

EFCA wouldn't eliminate the secret ballot

Current law already allows for card check, but the employer can request an election even after a majority of employees sign cards. After that it will be several months of firing pro union workers and mandatory anti union propaganda sessions before the election is finally held and the workers are scared shitless. The secret ballot would still be an available option if the employees decide they want it, but the choice would be there's rather than the employers, hence the name Employee Free Choice Act. I don't think it will pass in this congress either, I'm talking about next congress when we could end up having 5 more votes for EFCA in the senate with Specter, Hodes, whoever wins Ohio, Carnahan, and whoever beats that tool in Colorado.

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by: johnnythebandit @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 15:36:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'm not saying do this now

After the 2010 midterms, after healthcare reform, and a carbon tax are passed. EFCA could pass in the next congress. Specter can't be trusted on anything, and if Sestak announces a primary challenge it will force Specter to move to the left.

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by: johnnythebandit @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 15:41:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

failure of strategy

this is an always has been the biggest failing of the netroots.  Aside from the leaders....aka, the people who run this site.  Most of you have no concept of strategy....of the more important target.  

If the army has taught me anything, its that some targets need to have a bigger priority over others.  

Why the heck are we going to spend million against Arlen Specter, someone who was one of the most moderate members of the Republican party, when we have seats in NH, MO, OH, KT, and NC to go after where the people who are there or will be facing are all much more conservative than Specter ever dreamed of being.  

Then you have races like CO and CT and presto, we're already looking at 7 senate seats we have to worry about.  

You want to spend millions to defeat Specter, be my guest, but remember that you chose to do that when it comes down to,  "well if only so and so in this house race or senate race or governor's race had had some more money.  They didn't get that money because people like you went on a crusade against moderates.  

Check out http://electioninspection.word... for the latest news, election results, poll analysis, and predictions

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by: skywrnchsr509 @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 20:52:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You have a failure of strategy

I care about passing legislation, you seem to only care about having more democrats regardless of how they behave. If Specter wins the primary, that lets other democrats know it's okay to oppose EFCA, if he loses it will let them know it is unacceptable. I saw on the mortgage cramdown fight when 12 democrats voted against a piece of uncontroversial legislation that would help to revive the housing market, Specter was one of those democrats. Look at what Specter did to the stimulus, he watered it down for no reason other than to water it down.

I'm not suggesting we go on a crusade against moderates, I'm suggesting we go on a crusade against democrats who come from blue states but vote with the moneyed interests instead of the interests of their constituents.

We had 60 seats during Jimmy Carters first congress, and what did we get? The clean water act, and nothing else of importance. Unless we hold politicians accountable, the democrats will be only marginally better than the GOP. Obama himself said we need to hold him and members of congress accountable. We have more democrats, now it's time for better democrats.

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by: johnnythebandit @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 21:27:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

party as a whole

I care about the party as a whole.  

I don't want to see the Republicans begin to reclaim the majority, which is exactly the road your taking us down.  

Why is it that Specter couldn't win the Republican primary.  Its because too many members of his base have left the party, either becoming Indpendensts, or in many cases, becoming Democrats.  

Your willing to spend millions in a gamble.  I'm not.  I'll look to the likes of Paul Hodes, and Lee Fischer, and Roy Cooper to be my better Dems.  

So yes, when I can accomplish the goal of getting legislation passed with more Dems, I will always seek to do just that.  

Whether you like it or not, it is OK for people to disagree with you.  


Check out http://electioninspection.word... for the latest news, election results, poll analysis, and predictions

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by: skywrnchsr509 @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 22:46:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

If there is no accountability within our party

What's to stop a "better" democrat from winning an election and then doing whatever the banks and oil companies want. If there is no threat of a primary after bad voting behavior, they have no reason to vote on the side of the people. Specter is not a democrat, he's a republican, and he can never be trusted, I don't want him in Washington for another 6 years.

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by: johnnythebandit @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 01:54:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

since when will we be spending millions on this race?

The DSCC will certainly not bother to spend or endorse Specter against Sestak and Sestak will certainly annhilate Toomey if he wins the primary.

And quite frankly, your first paragraph is a load of shit.  The people on this site are THE most level headed of any left-oriented blog of its size and its sad you think that way about us.  There are a few purists here but quite frankly, everyone here understands strategy much more so than any other blog, I mean this blog is pretty much devoted to strategy in all actuality.

Fuck Specter, he isnt a Democrat, simple as that.  He's an opportunist who is using us.  He's a politician in the most disgusting and vile connotation of the word, did you see that cancer website before his campaign edited it?  Absolutely disgusting.  I'm happy to have him for the time being but come 2010, get the fuck out.

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by: Andrew @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 03:54:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

you know

I really dont like how I compared us to other blogs to try to prove we are better.  "Everyone here understands strategy much more so than any other blog" isn't doing us justice.

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by: Andrew @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 03:57:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

the message

and therein lies the message you send to every moderate out there.  Anyone who isn't as far to the left of you can get the fuck out.  

I'm not saying don't primary Specter period...I'm saying now isn;'t the time.  and why the hell would you primary him to replace him with Sestak??!!  Great fit for his seat, but he won't be much better in the senate.  He's another Casey Jr if not even further to thr right than that.  

As for not spending millions, look what the netroots did for people like Donna Edwards, they raised loads of cash.  

Look what they did for El Tinklenburg in such a short time last year.  

Whether the DSCC gets involved or not, Sestak would have to spend a few million dollars to beat Specter and thats with Specter spending a few million of his own in an attempt to win.  You don't honestly think Sestak can just spend a few hundread thousand and even come close to winning do you??

In terms of strategy, both resourceswise and messagewise, seriously going after Specter in 2010 is a bad idea.  The money and manpower can be put to better use elsewhere and like it as not, we're not going to win without the moderates.  

Let the CfG spend the money to get Toomey roasted, the kast thing we should be looking to do is spend money to primary Specter, and then actually have to worry about spending money in PA because we have to introduce a candidate to the rest of the state.  

We've got an easy win here in Specter that will allow us to go after other states.  Stop whining about 1 Democrat and go get better Democrats in other states.  

and as for better Democrats not voting the way we want them too, if they are better Democrats we won't have to worry about that will we??  

There will come a time to worry about seriously contesting the likes of Arlen Specter in the senate.  With a shot at 65 in the senate...now is not that time.  

Check out http://electioninspection.word... for the latest news, election results, poll analysis, and predictions

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by: skywrnchsr509 @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 04:59:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

the Republicans learned this lesson...why can;t we??

Another thing to add....look what Cornyn is doing.  

Crist in Florida....he went after Ridge and is now trying to get Gerlach.  

Reichert in WA

then you have guys like  Christie in NJ

these guys are "moderate" Republicans.  This is who the Republicans are actively courting now.....why??   because the Democrats are being pulled to the left and they want to reclaim the middle.  

We simply can't let them do that and any effort to get rid of Specter allows them to send the message that we reject the moderates.  


Check out http://electioninspection.word... for the latest news, election results, poll analysis, and predictions

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by: skywrnchsr509 @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 05:04:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Republicans haven't learned shit

CORNYN is recruiting moderates.  

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

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by: TheUnknown285 @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 15:23:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Agreed

Watch the primaries.  The GOP primary voter will do what they've been accustomed to doing.  No way Gerlach gets past Toomey.  Simmons might get through, but I'm not sure he'll have a credible GOP opponent.  Crist might because he's overwhelmingly beloved, but even his victory isn't assured.  Christie's victory in New Jersey is in doubt, and he ain't that moderate.  Reichert was the prize, but I seriously doubt he'll be around for long.

30, male, Democratic, CO-01

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by: Tiger in BlueDenver @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 17:14:42 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's not moderation, it's obstructionism

When Arlen Specter is fillibustering Obama nominees like Dawn Johnsen, that's a obstructionism. When half of the good legislation that passes through the house gets gutted or blocked in the senate by "moderates" that's obstructionism. All I ask is for the democrats to vote cloture on things like EFCA, cramdown, credit card rate limits, and public option healthcare. They can vote against it on the floor, but at least give it an up or down vote.

Casey has been a good democrat, voting for cloture on all of the legislation that passes the house, so I'll be happy with Sestak in the senate.

And who are these "moderates" who oppose EFCA, credit card rate limits, and cramdown so passionately? Do you really believe that there are people calling into Arlen Specter's office telling him they don't want a limit on credit card rates? That's not how congress works, Specter has taken more $$ from the Finance, and Real Estate sector than any other democrat.

The middle wants things to get done, and if Obama is held back on his priorities by a few "moderate" democrats, then the middle may shift back to the republicans. Let's look at how it happened throughout history, after bill clintons 1st congress (which was heavily democratic) when he didn't pass healthcare, but was able to pass NAFTA, the middle bailed out on the democrats and voted for the GOP. Same thing with Jimmy Carter. Oh and the dems picked up seats in 4 consecutive elections (30-36) when FDR got a lot of things passed. Then in '38 we lost seats when he cut spending and tried to balance the budget creating a mini recession within the depression.

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by: johnnythebandit @ Fri May 15, 2009 at 01:13:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]