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KY-Sen, OK-Sen: Lousy and Lousier

by: Crisitunity

Thu Apr 16, 2009 at 1:10 PM EDT


Jim Bunning has been telegraphing bad fundraising numbers for some time now, especially with his public admission last month that his fundraising was "lousy." With the numbers he released today, we can see the full scope of "lousy:" he raised $263,000 in the first quarter, and has $375,000 cash on hand. This looks like the Bunning campaign starting to enter a death spiral: perceptions that he can't win lead to low fundraising, which leads to perceptions that he can't win (and certainly that's not helped by polls showing him losing by double digits).

Also, bear in mind this is less than his potential Dem challenger Lt. Gov. Dan Mongiardo has; Mongiardo raised more than $429,000 last quarter (although Mongiardo will need to spend a lot this year to stay competitive with AG Jack Conway in the primary). And while you might be thinking $263K can still go a long way in a cheap state like Kentucky, that's not quite true; Kentucky is a very inefficient state for advertising dollars, as you have to pour a lot of money into the Cincinnati and Evansville markets, so blanketing Kentucky costs more than the cost of blanketing some states with significantly larger populations.

Still, Bunning is rich as Croesus compared with fellow Republican Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. Coburn reports having raised all of $17,000 in the first quarter, and holds $57,000 cash on hand. While Coburn has been making public noises lately about being unsure about whether to run for re-election (saying yesterday that he was seeking divine guidance on the issue, as well as saying that "Being a doctor is more fun"), these numbers speak pretty loudly on the issue.

Crisitunity :: KY-Sen, OK-Sen: Lousy and Lousier
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OK Sen OK Gov
It'd be nice if Coburn retires and that is what Brad Henry has been waiting to see or maybe almost just as good, one of the dems in the gov. race decides to switch to the Senate race.

Could even Henry win a federal race in OK?


[ Parent ]
Base question
I think another important question is does Henry even want to run for federal office. I dont know if Ive ever read anything were he has expressed any interest in running for another office.

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.

[ Parent ]
Brad Henry has 3 daughters
I don't remember their ages but I believe at least one of them or more is pretty young.  This may be why he doesn't want to run fo rhigher office.  After looking for his daughter's ages I'm realizing that this guy is actuallly pretty liberal for Oklahoma standards and is pretty amazing overall.  I wish he had more ambition but I respect his wishes to pay attention to his family.  Hopefully that is what it is and hopefully his daughters are almost grown.

[ Parent ]
Henry is in his mid-40s
So I would guess that his daughters are fairly young -- at the very least, they probably aren't grown women and are still living at home.

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent

[ Parent ]
Doubt it
Oklahoma is beyond saving as far as sending Dems to D.C. goes.  My guess is Henry would start ahead in the polls against Coburn and his numbers would tank once the right-wing attack ads kick.  He's probably lose by the high single digits.  

[ Parent ]
no!
Dude, I will seriously be on the verge of crying if Coburn retires. We need the man in DC. I worry that another sign that Coburn could be retiring is Rep. Cole's decision not to run for Governor, maybe having an eye on the Senate seat?

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.

You're kidding... right?


[ Parent ]
You get a lot of action from one man
He held up so many bills singlehandedly 2007-2009 congress.  

[ Parent ]
Gorwing up
and starting to get really indept into politcs when I was 16ish back in 2004 I remember following all the Senate primaries/races and Coburn struck me as one of the most honest, hard working people who could have been elected to the Senate out of all the major races that year. I was worried he wouldnt win but was very happy when he won by a decent margin on top of that. His performance in DC has been stellar as well, standing up for fiscal responsiblity, bucking the party leaders and not being a mindless drone. He reminds me of Mr. Smith from Mr. Smith goes to Washington.



A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.


[ Parent ]
Sorry
But I can't get past this.  Noone who wants to impose views like this is fit for public office.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...

Coburn is pro-life and opposes abortion even in cases of rape. In 2000, Coburn sponsored a bill to prevent the Food and Drug Administration from developing, testing or approving the abortifacient RU-486. On July 13, the bill failed in the House of Representatives by a vote of 182 to 187. On the issue, Coburn sparked controversy with his remark, "I favor the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life." He noted that his great-grandmother was raped by a sheriff and in the U.S. Senate confirmation hearings concerning Samuel Alito, said his grandmother was a product of that rape.


[ Parent ]
Mr. Smith
As far as I'm aware Mr. Smith never advocated the death penalty for rape victims.  Senator Coburn does.

[ Parent ]
Not that far gone.
The only thing I disagree with that on is I dont believe in the death penalty. I know many people who are the product of rape, including my dad and ex-significant other. I know alot of people on here disagree that an unborn baby is a real person, but if you look at it though the other side's prespective, its really not that far out there.  

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.

[ Parent ]
Yes it is
1. It's a fetus until it's actually born.  Up until that point you are not a human being, you are part of your mother's body and she can do as she wishes.  

2. If conservatives consider a life as beginning at conception then why don't they celebrate their birthday as the day they were conceived rather than the day they were born?

3. Conservatives commonly view the ideal household as one man and one woman.  If that's the case do they support full parental rights for rapist fathers?


[ Parent ]
Answer #2
Happy conception day!  Somehow I don't think that will catch on with Hallmark.

40, male, Democrat, NC-04

[ Parent ]
Well, as I said
1) Its all a matter of personal viewpoint. I can see why someone wouldnt think an unborn baby is not a person kinda, I just think you are flat out wrong.

2) Because a birthday is the day of your birth. Hence the term "birthday". Conception day would be pretty neat though Im not sure if they have a way to determine the excate day of your conception many times.

3) What kind of question is that?  

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.


[ Parent ]
I agree with you about viewpoint
The Supreme Court determined that a mother could abort her pregnancy up until the baby is viable (could actually live outside the womb of the mother).  The Supreme Court had to act as God during the Roe v. Wade ruling.  

I support Roe v. Wade and believe it's up to the mother's conscious on whether she wants to abort her pregnancy.  As a man, I cannot tell a woman that she cannot have an abortion.  At the same time, as a 38 year old father with an 8 year old daughter, I have trouble understanding why anyone could have an abortion.

I think abortions should be safe, legal, and rare.

40, male, Democrat, NC-04


[ Parent ]
"I think abortions should be safe, legal, and rare."
I also agree.

And that's about the most that you'll get out of me on the abortion issue.  It, along with gay marriage, are among the issues I don't enjoy touching, due to their status as near-guaranteed political flamebait that's expanded beyond their original significance.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
I agree
Abortion is one of those issues where there really isnt alot of fruitful debate on it because most people have their viewpoints and there isnt much you can say outside of "I think unborn babies need to be protected as people" or "Its nothing but a lump of tissue connected to a woman's body".

We could say those lines over and over and get nowhere.

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.


[ Parent ]
The only difference is
People who support abortion (like myself) don't push my beliefs on other people.  I don't like abortion, but it's necessary and it's a personal decision between a woman and her doctor.  If someone else wants to have one they should have that right.

People like you aren't content in your beliefs.  You want to eliminate the right of other people you don't even know to have children and ban safe abortions.  I say "safe" abortions because if abortion is ever again banned it won't actually end abortions, it'll just drive them underground and create a more unsafe environment.

I'm also curious what you think is proper punishment for a woman who has an abortion should Roe v. Wade be overturned.  One year in jail?  10 years in jail? The death penalty?  Conservatives naturally hate to answer this question.  I've never once gotten a straight answer on it.


[ Parent ]
But
Isnt supporting abortion in effect "pushing your beliefs"? Isnt that essientally what politics is? What a democracy is? People supporting something and enacting it?

Im not affraid to answer it. As any case, it would depend on the circumstances how someone who gets an abortion would be punished. I consider it murder, so at the very least charging people with assisting in murder.  

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.


[ Parent ]
Fair question
I don't think it is pushing your beliefs onto others.  Noone is forcing anyone to have an abortion by legalizing it.  Just like legalizing gay marriage isn't forcing anyone to do anything they don't want.

An example of a law forcing someone to do something is bike helmet laws or seatbelt laws.  We used to force people to wear a helmet if they rode a motorcycle in Florida.  That law was repealed, thankfully.

My definition of forcing beliefs onto someone is forcing them to do something.  Legalized abortion, legalized drugs, legalized gay marriage, etc. are merely extension of rights.  They are not forcing an action or belief onto anyone.  They are simply giving a person the freedom to choose.


[ Parent ]
Health/safety and abortions
"I say "safe" abortions because if abortion is ever again banned it won't actually end abortions, it'll just drive them underground and create a more unsafe environment."

Exactly.  In which case, you don't just destroy the life of the child (assuming you consider it to be a life), but you also endanger the life of the woman.  Not to mention, if it becomes a black market that's the realm of gangs, you then have greater potential for violence, which puts even more lives at risk, along with increased financial crime activity.

Which is one big reason that it should be legal.  Yes, it should be rare, but it should be legal in case someone chooses to do so, because I don't want to see more shit hitting the fan than necessary.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
I do too.
And a friend of mine who is religious and VERY pro-life also supports Roe v. Wade for safety and health reasons.

http://uselectionatlas.org/FOR...

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
Heh
I've never posted there.  But I've read that website's forums and information for several years now.

[ Parent ]
3)
It's a legit question.  What kind of childhood is a kid going to have with a rapist father?  You do realize that rape and incest children tend to have very poor quality lives and have a far higher incidence of becoming sexual predators themselves, right?  

And if abortion is ever outlawed I hope I'm not alive 18 years later when that first batch of monsters are born.  The crime rate will skyrocket.


[ Parent ]
.
Children's lives are better with both a mother and a father assuming both are fit to be parents. Clearly a rapist would not be a good father and thus the next best soultion is having it raised by a single mom or if the mother is married, in a two parent household with her husband.  

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.

[ Parent ]
Sorry about that Kyle
I went over the line with that last post.  As you can tell I get a little too fired up on this topic at times.  It's nothing personal.

[ Parent ]
Dont worry about it
It happens. Usually the most worked up posts here are far calmer than Politics1, where people can go crazy and very personal, and people attack eachother over things ranging from their weight, their children, their jobs, etc.  

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.

[ Parent ]
Haha, politics1 comments.
I've read like, very very few of them.  Clicked a few comment threads a few time and became quickly uninterested anyway.

At least my idea of the comments threads--not much substantial information and a lot of partisan insult-hurling--is substantiated.  Thanks.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
Now, on the topic of parenting, childcare, and stuff:
Is it better for a child to be raised by a single mother struggling to make ends meet, and unable to devote much time to her daughter or son, or is it better for said child to be adopted by a homosexual couple, where the responsibilities of parenting will be better met by two people, albeit two of the same gender?

That's a question I'm still waiting for an answer about.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm currently leaning toward the latter, as I think a child with sufficient attention from caretaking adults will adjust better to society.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
Responsibilities with those rights too


party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Brad Henry and Cole
Cole would be fine with me, as an Oklahoman, I've seen Cole and he is a joke.  As far as Brad Henry goes, he won every single one of the 77 counties in Oklahoma in 2006.  That is what McCain did in 2008.  He is ver popular despit the fact that this state is very deep red.  Also he's a very smart, independent thinking guy.  He's not a blue dog but he's not a liberal.  He'd Warner type from Virginia.

Fact Correction Time
As far as Brad Henry goes, he won every single one of the 77 counties in Oklahoma in 2006.

Uh....no he didn't. Take a look at the results by county here. If you look up Cimarron, Texas, and Beaver counties (that's the panhandle part of the state), they went Republican.

You might want to rephrase your statement.


[ Parent ]
I understand being thorough, but that's nit-picking a bit
And his primary point is still perfectly valid (and really, considering that those three counties gave Obama 12%, 15%, and 11% of the vote, the fact that Henry got 33%, 42%, and 46% in those counties is extremely good)

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
My Bad
I wasn't looking at any stats I just thought I remembered seeing a coompletely blue map.  My bad.  Either way, Brad Henry understands how a democrat can win in Oklahoma.  He isn't a great orator or anything like that either.  He is walking proof that the democratic message can appeal to all no matter what stae you are in.  As long as you are honest, fair, and thoughtful you can win anywhere... or almost anywhere.

[ Parent ]
Those counties are special cases
I lived in one of those for a while (Texas County).  They are not in any OK media market (they get Amarillo TV for everything except public TV, which no one watches).  Also, the only daily paper in those counties (the one in Guymon)and the only radio station only covers local news (as does all the small town dailies) with almost no coverage of state news.  Therefore, literally, many people there do not the name of the current OK governor and a large majority knows nothing about him.  The only thing they have to vote on is statewide races is party, which is overwhelmingly Republican.

[ Parent ]
Oh, those are the panhandle counties.
What the heck is that part of the state like?

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Very conservative...
Very conservative, very white and very Republican.  The economy is largely agricultural based, with some oil.

[ Parent ]
FEC
Anyone know hom much Cole has on hand?

Cole ended 2008 with $355,413
But not sure how to find how much he got in Q1 of this year.

He raise 8k in the first quarter
He has just under 350k COH.

[ Parent ]
I doubt Henry will run
but we've got two statewide officals running for governor. Might one of them switch after seeing this or if he did retire?

Also, you can do it Jim! Stick with it! Don't let the man get you down! Fight back!


Do we have someone lined up to take on Coburn?
I know that Andrew Rice is being talked up as a possible candidate in OK-05 for Fallin's seat as she runs for governor, but what about the Senate race?

admnok: So who is regarded as the worse Senator, Coburn or Inhofe?

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


James by and far
Coburn, while he tends to be a radical on some issues isn't a knuckle dragging neanderthal.  He's just a budget hawk whihc I can at least see the concern.  Also, he is not a partisan hack like James is.

[ Parent ]
Ya, it's Inhofe
He has all sorts of conspiracy theories and is generally regarded as a delusional nut.  While Coburn also says outrageous things as times he really does seem sincere in his beliefs.  Especially so on budget issues.

[ Parent ]
THEN WHY HASN'T HE BEEN VOTED OUT OF OFFICE YET???


party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Because he has been in elected office for almost 40 years off and on in Oklahoma.
He has run or been everything from governor, mayor of Tulsa, House rep and Senate rep in both the state and federal varieies etc.  

Also, Rice told me that he does a lot of special needs help as in, you lose your job, you contact his office and he makes things happen for you.   Now imagine how many voers you have in your pocket after doing that for 40 years.


[ Parent ]
Rice as in Andrew Rice?
Also, I remember reading an article somewhere saying that Inhofe is the quintessential get-down-in-the-mud-with-you-and-beat-the-crap-out-of-you political opponent.  Or something like that.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Because Oklahoma is Oklahoma


[ Parent ]
Oklahoma is only Oklahoma when it is ignored.
Obama ignored this this whole state... one of the very very very few he didn't actually visit...  When this state is paid attention to it can be blue too.  With the right cnadidate of course.  Brad Henry would be a great fit for this seat... even Dan Boren would be but ugh, I'd hate to have him as a senator...

[ Parent ]
No it can't
Obama could have campaigned for months there and blasted the state with ads and still lost by double-digits.  

Dems didn't ignore it either when they ran heavily funded Brad Carson for Senate in 2004 and he got destroyed by Coburn.

We can win there in state and local elections, but not in federal elections and congressional elections.


[ Parent ]
Delivers Babies
The man has been delivering babies in Oklahoma for something like 40 years.  He's literally delivered thousands of OK voters or their children.  People generally like doctors who deliver babies and especially if it was you.  Obviously, this is not everything, but it helps.

[ Parent ]
That's Coburn
Inhofe has never delivered a baby in his life, as far as I know.

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent

[ Parent ]
Inhofe just likes to take lives
He likes to take lives of our grandkids and great grandkids by denying global warming.  So much for his being pro-life.

[ Parent ]
I'd Also Say Inhofe
He comes across as an ignorant hack.  Coburn has said some wacked out things, but he's a sincere deficit hawk (which I can respect) and seems sincere in his other beliefs.  He's one of the few Republicans from the class of '94 who kept his term limit promise and retired when he said he would.  He'll also criticize his own party and is not near as partisan as Inhofe.

[ Parent ]

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