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WY-Gov: Might Freudenthal Challenge Wyoming's Term Limit Laws?

by: DavidNYC

Mon Feb 16, 2009 at 3:04 PM EST


Needless to say, this would be a major game-changer:

It now appears that Freudenthal may well seek a third term in 2010 -- thanks to a series of legal and political maneuvers that began more than two decades ago.

After Democratic Gov. Ed Herschler served three consecutive terms into the mid-1980s, the state legislature passed a bill limiting Wyoming's chief executives to two terms. Then, in 1992, voters passed a ballot initiative that brought term limits to the state legislature in the finest "If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander" tradition.

Fast-forward 12 years to a lawsuit brought by two term-limited legislators -- a Democrat and a Republican -- challenging the constitutionality of such limits. The state Supreme Court unanimously agreed that the term limits could not be imposed by ballot initiative, ruling that an amendment to the state constitution would be required.

While that decision did not apply to Wyoming's five statewide offices -- including governor -- there is a strong sense that if Freudenthal challenged the constitutionality of his own term limits, it would be a slam-dunk victory for the incumbent.

Freudenthal seems an unlikely sort to pursue this kind of challenge - but he's leaving the door wide open:

Asked about the possibility that Freudenthal would seek a third term, his spokeswoman Cara Eastwood said only: "When the governor has something to announce, he will announce it."

Putting aside my own feelings about term limits & voter referenda, this would be great news for Democrats, of course. And here in NYC, it doesn't appear that Bloombo is paying a price for extending his own term limits (despite far worse optics and behavior), so I suspect Freudenthal could pull it off.

DavidNYC :: WY-Gov: Might Freudenthal Challenge Wyoming's Term Limit Laws?
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Great news! We need the governor's chair for redistricting!
;-)

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08

Wyoming
only has one congressional district

[ Parent ]
That was most definitely a joke. n/t


[ Parent ]
Hence the wink
But the state legislature will also undergo redistricting, right?

[ Parent ]
Cool
But do we actually care whether Wy has a Dem governor?  He already governs like a moderate to conservative Republican.  Moreover, there is no redistricting to be done unfairly,  What are your thoughts?

Not so much
To this point, there hasn't been much benefit gained from Wyoming having a Dem governor.  Freudenthal got to appoint a Senator, but was hamstrung by a state law that provided that the state GOP would provide a list of three names for him to pick from.  I guess that means getting a somewhat sane Republican (is Barrasso sane?) instead of a nutter, but whatever.  Like you said there's no redistricting to worry about, and it's not as if policies in Wyoming are a really big deal on a national level or that Wyoming's governor is going to become a contender for the Presidency.

I'd just as well have Wyoming fill their governor's mansion and state legislature with nutters so that those of us in the rest of the nation have a real-life example of what happens when wingnuts have complete control of the government.  But there's already Idaho and Utah to do that.  Or the federal government, c. 2003-2006.

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent


[ Parent ]
Cheney was "consequential"
And I'm not sure we need any more monsters like him festering in the dark corners of the country no one seems to pay attention to. We may not get Democrats in the Senate from these states, but sometimes we do get votes, such as Hatch on stem cells. So I think it's important to root for the moderate over the extremist in places where a Democrat is not going to get elected. Plus, it drives the real nutjobs crazy!

[ Parent ]
Well... yeah
Of course few people realize Cheney was a Congressman from Wyoming.  Personally, I think he came straight from Hell.

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent

[ Parent ]
I completely agree about Freudenthal, though.
We gained very little from him being Governor.

He was forced to appoint a Republican when Craig Thomas died, and it probably was decided with a dart board because I'm sure the WY GOP put up three equally conservative choices so they would get exactly what they wanted.

He's probably the most conservative Dem governor in the country, although Brad Henry might give him some competition. Little progressive policy at the state level is likely to come from someone like that, especially with an overwhelmingly Republican state legislature.

He refused to endorse anyone in the Dem Presidential primary, and in fact trashed Barack and Hillary in doing so, playing the "they're not one of us" card that the GOP loves to deal.

Freudenthal did endorse and campaign for Gary Trauner, though, so maybe he does have a populist streak in him.


[ Parent ]
According to Wikipedia
Freudenthal endorsed Obama on April 2nd.

[ Parent ]
Yup
"The negativity, partisanship and lack of purpose that characterize our national debate and government are crippling this country," Freudenthal said in a statement issued by the Obama campaign. "While no one individual can effect this change alone, the change must begin with someone. Senator Obama is the Democratic candidate with the openness, honesty and skill to end this vicious cycle of business as usual."

Shockingly, Freudenthal actually campaigned for Obama in Pennsylvania last October. I bet you didn't know that!


[ Parent ]
Oh yeah, and for those too busy to clinky the linky
Here's Freudenthal on the stump:

Freudenthal said he believes Republican presidential candidate John McCain is using the gun-control issue to take attention away from the troubled economy.

"If you're an extension of the administration that presided over the greatest economic downfall in this country's history, with the exception of the Great Depression, wouldn't you want to talk about guns?" said Freudenthal, a Democratic governor in a highly Republican state.

"When I look around, this country is significantly at risk. Do you want to take the behavior that put us at risk and extend it for another eight years?"

Kind of amazing given that this guy never appeared to have a partisan bone in his body -- ever.


[ Parent ]
Wow
Didn't even know about all this until now.  That's very impressive for a Governor from one of the most conservative states in the country.  Sounds like the kind of guy we need to stick around in Wyoming politics.

[ Parent ]
I like his style
He's the kind of person who can really show how the stuff like brandishing the guns issue to establish Republicans' "conservative" credentials are actually a huge load of bull.

Dismantling the enemy's strength.  That was one major plan of Karl Rove's strategy against John Kerry.  It's only fair that they should drink their own medicine.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
He endorsed Trauner very late in 2006
And I don't think he campaigned much for him. I don't know about 2008, but in 2007 I did hear mutterings that his caution had been one of the reasons Cubin survived.

[ Parent ]
Great comment
Way to go Vandy

[ Parent ]
I know of Senate appointment laws, but apparently someone on Conservapedia didn't.
I heard that recently, someone posted on Conservapedia a list of Democratic Senators from states with Republican governors, saying that, were they to pass away, they could be replaced with Republicans.  I also heard that that was deemed too controversial (even for Conservapedia) and that the posting was removed (even though we here at SSP can pull up such information from our brains anytime anyway).

I heard this in an IRC chat room, and I immediately responded by listing all such Democratic Senators...as well as all Republican Senators representing states with Democratic governors.  Among the sweetest of my list?  Enzi and Barrasso, as well as Coburn, Inhofe, McConnell, Bunning, Roberts, and Brownback.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
Lets see if I can do them all of the top of my head
Begich, Feinstein, Boxer, Inoyue, Akaka, Reid, Dorgan, Conrad, Johnson, , Klobuchar, Franken, Landreiu, Nelson, Bayh, Dodd, Lieberman, Reed, Whitehouse.

I put Lieberman down because he caucuses with us and he'd still be replaced by someone who wouldnt.

Other way around...

Enzi, Barrasso, Brownback, Roberts, Inhofe, Coburn, Bond, Grassley, McConnel, Bunning, Corker, Burr, Voinivich, Specter, Gregg, Snowe, Collins.  And one big FUCK because I cant think of one guys name, damn damn damn damn!  So close.  Dude from TN.  Ugh.  I'm gonna go look it up and be annoyed with myself.  LAMAR ALEXANDER!!!  

Good game.  We are such losers and it explains why I havent gotten laid since November, ;)


[ Parent ]
and i dont feel morbid
I did this as a fun, which states have opposite party Governors and Senators, not, wow who should we knock off.  That's f'd for someone to frame it that way on Conservepedia, which I will now have to go check out.

[ Parent ]
I think I got everyone except
the senators from Hawaii and Tennessee, when I did it over IRC.

Then I realized it later that night.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
Idaho's actually more
liberal and Democratic than Wyoming in every fashion, and has many more traditionally Democratic areas. Not to mention that but due to the high tech growth in the area Boise-metro is becoming more and more Democratic.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
I dunno
The Mormon population is spilling over from Utah into Idaho at a rapid rate, which seems to be offsetting the Dem growth in Boise.  And they have a ton of young minions.

[ Parent ]
They seem to keep their younguns too, which is weird.
The evangelicals are not nearly as good at holding on to their young.

Or maybe that's just my distorted opinion, as one of the ones that got away.  ;-)

28, gay guy, Democrat, CA-08


[ Parent ]
No, it's absolutely true
I've been to Utah countless times.  Have family there.  The young people are every bit as conservative as their parents.

[ Parent ]
Maybe something of a cultural/"ethnic" legacy thing
The way people stick with Jewish traditions and stuff because it's their family/community traditions.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
same thing in Nevada and Colorado
and Arizona, a very fast growing mormon population. Heck, Mormons aren't all conservative, Tom Udall is Mormon, Harry Reid in Mormon.

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Well...
Well, the Udalls are Democrats because they're a political dynasty that started with the Democrats generations ago and decided not to switch parties when other Mormoms around them became Republican.  Also, Harry Reid is a Mormon by conversion, due to his wife.

[ Parent ]
Probably by tradition all around
No intelligent person could actually believe that garbage.

[ Parent ]
Then there are quite a lot of Morans
in this country, sad to say.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Eh, kinda
I think the Mormon's moving in are the same uber-conservatives that you see in Utah, et al.
There is, however, a tradition of moderate to conservative, largely Mormon, white Democrats in rural northern Arizona (ie besides the Natives, hippies, and students, who are just Democrats anyway). Those groups are really trending away from us, though. We've already lost them at the presidential level, and they're slipping at the other levels as well. Rep. Kirkpatrick didn't do nearly as well in the eastern counties as I would have figured, seeing as she's one of them.

22, Democrat, AZ-01
Peace. Love. Gabby.


[ Parent ]
Wyoming
Hey, no reason to make the children of Wyoming suffer, LOL. At least the adults have the free will to just leave if they want. And theres always the chance a Gov. of WY. could be a Pres. contender, depending on how conservative they are. If theyre a really dynamic personality (especially if a female or minority) then who knows.

And while WY is probably pretty fiscally conservative i know its not really a socially conservative state. Ex-GOP Sen. Alan Simpson is a good example.


[ Parent ]
How many ex-Utahan Mormons have gone into Wyoming?
I know that Jackson County is winnable, but what about other western counties?

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
Senate?
Any chance he'd ever run for the Senate?  It's always good to have the governor and representative spots from low population states since they always have a strong inside track on a senate seat if they ever desire to run.

[ Parent ]
May as well
Even a moderate Dem like Freudenthal is preferrable to a conservatie republican holding the Governorship of Wyoming.  And it sounds like the effort to overturn term-limits is bi-partisan, so Freudenthal probably wouldn't be damaged politically by this effort.  I still wish he would have tried his luck for Senate though.

Barrasso and Enzi
Barrasso and Enzi do tend to keep their mouths shut unless it is a labor issue like EFCA with Enzi being the ranking member of that committee.  Of course their voting records are atrocious, but I would take the Wyoming delegation over the two misfits that represent Oklahoma for example.  Inhofe and Coburn always win the batshit crazy duo contests.  So comparatively given how conservative most of Wyoming is Enzi and Barrasso are a treat compared to a likely alternative.  

Please donate to amcharities.org to help build more after school centers in the Miami area.  

23, Democrat, IA-2


Senators in general
tend to be less batshit crazy than their House counterparts.  Oklahoma is the exception to the rule, with Inhofe and Coburn standing in contrast to a relatively nondescript House delegation.  Wyoming still gave us Barbara Cubin for 14 years, which is in clear contrast to its Senate delegation and is strange considering that the batshit House members can usually be explained by heavily gerrymandered districts.  (For example, Tom Tancredo would never win statewide in Colorado, but CO-06 was apparently fine with electing him.)

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent

[ Parent ]
You don't need to gerrymander Wyoming
To make it insanely Republican-leaning.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
cynthia lummis isn't any better


Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
We need to wait for her to
Start acting like enough of an idiot for an R+19 district to reject her.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

[ Parent ]
That bar is low.... REALLY low
It takes a Bill Sali grade A douchebag that NOONE likes in order for any Democrat to win that kind of district.  And even in that case we had a fantastic candidate in Minnick and he just barely won.  

[ Parent ]
Ideologically she's no better
But I think he's referring to behavior.  Lummis may be as crazy ideologically, but she seems to carry her self far better publicly than people like Sali, Schmidt or Tancredo.  Unfortunately that's how low the bar is in that kind of district.  Unless the republican candidate is a foaming at the mouth moron who even most republicans despise no Dem can win it.

[ Parent ]
Yep
Ideologically, virtually all conservative Republicans seem pretty crazy.  But there's a difference between the ones who can put together coherent policy arguments that actually make some sense, and the ones who are incapable of such thought and/or obsessed with pet causes (usually immigration or abortion or the like.)

If you look back at the GOP Presidential primary, for example, Duncan Hunter wasn't that much different ideologically from Tom Tancredo.  But Hunter came off as much less crazy.

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent


[ Parent ]
Term limits
IMO assume voters to be too dumb to kick out bad politicians. The argument for them is that otherwise you have a bunch of career politicians running things, but if that is so bad then why not just vote them out? As long as we have a functioning democracy they just don't make any sense.  

Exactly
I don't like term-limits at any level of government.  We had no term-limits of the Presidency for more than a century and a half and one once (FDR) did it result in a President getting elected more than two-terms.  Heck, Ulysses Grant was a national icon when he was launched into the Presidency, but by the time he was up for a third term his own party threw him out on his ass.  At the end of the day the voters should get to decide who represents them.

[ Parent ]
and the real problem is you
get constant overturn and you end losing good leaders constantly for no sensible reason, its like throwing the baby out with the trash instead of letting the people decide. The ethical argument for term limits is very weak, and the logical arugment against it is so much stronger. Take Arkansas's extreme term limits, 6 years in the house and eight in the senate. And, have you noticed that most term limits tend to be in formerly Democratic blue dog states? That's because in the 90s Republican state committees and voters used term limits as a tool to help them take the state legislatures by kicking out popular old local Democratic figures. Its worked in Louisiana, and Oklahoma, not so well in Democratic states like Arkansas and North Carolina where Democrats have gained seats in the state legislatures since the measures went. Democrats hold something like 71 or 72 out of 100 of Arkansas's state house seats and 27 out of 35 senate seats.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus

[ Parent ]
Same deal in California
with constant overturn and loss of experience. Only the term-limits measure was passed by voters in 1990. It also takes away time from legislators to actually do legislating so they can go (in some cases, fly) back to their districts to meet their voters and, especially, to raise money.

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
Florida is really ridiculous
We have consecutive term-limits only.  So what ends up happening is someone serves a few terms as state rep, then runs for state senate when he's maxed out his terms in the state house.  Then when the state senate terms are maxed he goes back to the state house.  

It's as idiotic system as you'll ever find.  If you're going to institute term-limits (and I don't think you should) at least make is X number of terms for life.  


[ Parent ]
Agreed.
We got those for legislators in California also.

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
HoHum
Been there, done that, move on.

He can run for the House or Senate if he wants to serve the people of Wyoming.  Third term Govs are so 20th century.


your diary is very wrong
the one you linked. You assume that the people of Alaska cared that Stevens' was a felon. You overlook the fact that he was personally loved for his folksy tell it as it is manner, (even I cannot help but chuckle over his Hulk tie), and he was "The Provider" for 40 years. The state depends on federal money. Alaskans are quite used to corruption anyway. Beating a 40 year incumbent is normally almost impossible, especially in such small states where everybody knows you by then. Democrats have actually been making great gains in the legislatures and now the senate seat. The state remains tough, though it is not against Democratic ideas, it just doesn't like the wimpy namby pamby stereotype of Democrats. They want people to go out and get their hands dirty to get them money on a federal level.

Not to mention you overlook the D+2 trend of Idaho over the past four years. Most importantly you overlook the change in the state's two largest and fastest growing counties, Ada and Canyon. Ada, by far the largest with 180,000 votes cast in 2008, went from 61-38 to 52-45, and Canyon had an even bigger swing from 75-24 to 66-31. The high tech corridor and fast growing economy are increasingly making the area more Democratic. What's more the hispanic population is booming, and most of the people moving in are from the much more liberal Northwest Pacific Coast. I'd give Democrats a decade before they pick up some substantial offices. The real problem is the better organization; the Idaho RP can pump out votes like an inner city black church. They manage to overperform polling by about 10 points.

Don't believe me? Take a look at the other major population areas:

Kootenai County: 2004:6 6-32, 2008: 62-36,
Twin Falls County: 2004: 74-24 2008: 66-30
Nez Pierce: 2004: 62-37, 2008: 58-40
Latah: 2004: 49-48 W, 2008: 51-45 O
Bonneville County: 2004: 77-22 2008: 70-27
Madison County: 92-7 2004, 2008: 85-12

Obama gained votes in every section of the state, but his strongest areas of gain where in the eastern corner bordering Wyoming, and the "Treasure Valley" Boise Metro area in the central and southwest portion of the state where he really made big gains and where the state is growing fastest. Not bad for a state he didn't visit and didn't campaign for in the least, unlike Montana and the Dakotas. Had he done that his results would likely have been even better and he probably would have pulled McCain under 60% there and possibly had the major victor of Winning Ada County.  

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus


[ Parent ]
I, too, was wondering if he'd head back there
after his blowout primary victory due to his one trip to Idaho.

I was seriously hoping that he would stop by and drum up support.

Though, in retrospect, it might not have helped LaRocco over the top and Minnick won even without an Obama visit.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
You're missing the overall point
First, of course they cared he was a felon.  Many just didn't care enough to vote blue.

As for the rest, I didn't say the Blood Red Wilderness of Alaska, Idaho, Utah and Wyoming weren't trending more blue.  They are.  They just are not trending like Colorado or Nevada or Montana.  In other words, losing 60/40 is way better than losing 70/30, but it isn't winning either.

The point is the blood red Western Wilderness is a 10 to 20 year project, not a two or four year one.

Absent flukes, these states are not in play except for one Congressional seat (Matheson).  It's getting better, and if Minnick actually could hold on that would be the next step of the 1000 mile journey of these areas (since it does not look like Gov Dave will run nationally in Wyoming.. THAT could speed change up a lot).  I don't think he can though, unless there again is a fluke of sali being the nominee again.


[ Parent ]
My only Problem with Freduenthal is that
like Brad Henry in Oklahoma he has not been a leader in the State Democratic party and not helped use his political popularity to help make broad gains. At least the state DP hasn't completely imploded like under Henry, but still. Freudenthal is not overly political, that's for sure. He was actually my top choice for Secretary of the Interior though.

Other popular State Democrats in the west have helped build their parties, Sebelius, Nepalitano, Schwieter,

Call no man happy until he is dead-Aeschylus


Oklahoma's Dems imploded?
Last I checked, they swept in 2006. Henry had a Republican Lt. gov in 2002 when elected. In 2006 he got a Dem Lt. Gov instead (the incumbent R now Represents Oklahoma City in the US Congress).

Heck, Dems swept Oklahoma in 2006. In 2008 . . . I dunno, they hates them some Obama. Remember, Hillary walked with it in the primary. Dems still have good numbers in the state senate, even though they lost control of the chamber this year.

I'd argue the TN Democratic party is atrophying. And Bill Nelson has been holding statewide office in Florida since 2000 but the state's democratic infrastructure has not improved. Seems the Obama campaign won Florida, not the state party.

26, Male, Democrat, TX-26


[ Parent ]
Florida
There has been a net pick up of three US House seats in the last two elections.  That is something.  Obama carried the state.  Something more.  The state was badly, badly gerrymandered.

[ Parent ]
Ah, BUT!
Seat pick up A (Klein) was a Dem leaning district where the Dem spent ridiculous amounts of cash and had a less than spectacular performance in 2008 for re-election.

Seats B and C (Grayson and Kosmos) were in Orlando where we went from 45% dem performance to 55%. Now this is due to local organization and they done gone in Mickey's back yard.

And statewide. Nelson got in during 2000 and got a pass from crazy lady in 2006. And Alex Sink wins where she is able to use ridiculous fundraising advantages (similar to Klein) from years in banking industry. She won her race, the state party did not.

Individuals are winning in Florida. The Democratic party is not. The Democratic party of whatever county Orlando is in, however, may be getting their act together and winning their races. I also got an eye on the Democratic party of Miami.

26, Male, Democrat, TX-26


[ Parent ]
As you say
The Florida Democratic party has been a joke for over a decade now and continues to be a joke.  We picked off 3 house seats in two elections more because republican overstretched themselves in 2002 redistricting than anything else.  In the state legislature Dems have gained practically nothing despite two very pro-democratic years (2006 and 2008).

[ Parent ]
I remember once
I got onto the email list for the Florida College Democrats somehow and I just felt bad reading them...  They were so gung-ho and let's get a party infrastructure and actually matter.  Made me really glad to be from MN.

FL is just such a dissapointment to me because I always figured it would be a blue state with it's big population and all that.  Well, then I looked at a map and learned about it.  It's just absolutely crazy how GOP controlled that state is for how 50/50 it really is.

What do you think needs to happen Floridians?  Would it come down to a Dem Gov making the lines more fair (Congressional and state gov) so you guys stand a chance in gaining some seats and that is the best option currently?


[ Parent ]
Probably
That's definitely the quickest option. Florida unfortunately didn't become too much more blue - Obama won by just a couple percent - so I have doubts that a wave in the state legislature is coming.

[ Parent ]
We had a good slate last year
Last year we had pretty good recruitment in a lot of FL state house races in marginal Central and South Florida districts.  As usual we lost most of them by between 2-10 points.  We had a net gain of 1-2 seats, bringing our net gain to 7-8 seats since 2006.  That's nothing more than a dead-cat bounce given the massive majority repubicans have.  

Hate to say it but it's going to take an Ohio-sized scandel to allow Dems to make a fast comeback in Florida at the state and local level.  Aside from that happening it's a long-term project.


[ Parent ]
The state legislature performance
was so dismal this year. We really need new state Democratic Party leadership. Even with the state's gerrymandering, I don't understand how they can barely pick up anything in 2008 when Obama won the state. There were even two open Senate seats that were in fairly moderate districts. The way I see it the elected Democrats we do have are in mostly safe districts and selfish and careless about the direction of the Democratic Party in Florida. Hopefully with Grayson that will start to change and I hope he fights very hard for his re-election as I'm sure top Republicans will be coming after him.

[ Parent ]
Orlando districts
Also didnt the Republicans, in those districts, suffer from scandals as well? If they were squeaky clean perhaps theyd have won re-election, who knows. Though i know at least one of their defeats was a blowout.

[ Parent ]
Feeney did
The final nail in his coffin was his horrendous decision to air an ad admitting to making mistakes in his dealings with Jack Abramoff.  Until he admitted that many voters didn't even know about the connections.  

Ric Keller didn't have any real scandels to speak of.  He lost more due to demographic changes than anything else.  His district demographically has moved far left of where it was when it was created in 2002.  It also didn't help that he was a backbencher whose signature accomplishment was the "cheeseburger bill."  He also had a stiff primary challenger from his right that weakened him in Todd Long.


[ Parent ]
Yeah
I had never heard of that Abramoff connection.  It was really was immediatly after he aired that video, it was a foregone conclusion that he was done.

[ Parent ]

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