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VA-02, WV-02: Drake, Capito Post Sizable Leads

by: James L.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:49 PM EDT


Two more polls from the Great Orange Satan tonight. Let's pop open the hood and have a look.

Research 2000 for Daily Kos (10/7-8, likely voters):

Glenn Nye (D): 37
Thelma Drake (R-inc): 51
Undecided: 12
(MoE: ±5%)

This is an R+6, military-heavy district that is often seen as a something of a bellwether for statewide contests (and according to this poll, McCain is leading Obama by 51-42), though keep in mind that even Jim Webb lost this district by a few points in 2006. This district is about 20% black, and that population is more dispersed and difficult to turn out than in other parts of the state -- and, according to the Cook Political Report, African-American turnout has been in the 10-15% range of the electorate in recent election. The black turnout is pretty key to Nye's chances, and it's hard to gauge this poll without knowing its racial breakdown. A recent Nye internal pegged this race at five points.

And over in West Virginia... Research 2000 (10/7-8, likely voters):

Anne Barth (D): 39
Shelley Moore Capito (R-inc): 53
Undecided: 8
(MoE: ±5%)

Barth has a lot of work to do, clearly, but at least the spread is a lot closer than the "2-1 Capito lead" that Stuart Rothenberg was writing about last month (presumably he was talking about Capito's own polling).

Most interesting, though, are the Presidential numbers: McCain leads Obama by 48-41 in the 2nd District. That's not quite the 57-42 win that Bush posted here in 2004.

SSP currently rates VA-02 as Lean Republican and WV-02 as Likely Republican.

James L. :: VA-02, WV-02: Drake, Capito Post Sizable Leads
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On the Capito poll
See my diary at Dailykos. Long story short, R2000 messed up the demographics- their sample is D-38%, R-33% when the actual district numbers are D-49.5%, R-33.2%. Adjusting for that results in a Capito/Barth tie, and Obama ahead.

Word is there are different but similar issues with the VA-02 poll.


[ Parent ]
I definitely think so
but VA doesn't register by party, so I can't do anything similar for that.

[ Parent ]
Well, we need more information
to know if you're right.

It could be that R2K is only asking people they call for Party ID (as opposed to registration) and then weighting to the census. That's preferable methodology IMO. But what don't know what they did.


[ Parent ]
A Capito/Barth tie would be awesome! Thanks for your work.
That is one screwed sample.
(Kos should ask for his money back.)

[ Parent ]
Something isn't right.
   How can Obama be winning Virginia by a poll average of SEVEN points and still be losing the second district by 9 points?  The district is only 3 points more Republican than the state as a whole.  Does anyone understand what I am saying?  

24, Male, GA-05

Since the 7 points is an average of several polls
Common sense suggests this single poll is the more likely to be wrong.

[ Parent ]
It's a bit more Republican than that.
Kerry got smashed by 16%, Gore by 12%. Both lost VA by about 8%. I do understand what you're saying though. So if Obama has closed 7% in the 2nd, I don't think that's too bad of a position for him to be in.

Most of Obama's gains over Kerry and Gore, I'm expecting, will come in the 10th (Loudoun, PW, Winchester) and 11th (Fairfax, PW). I also wouldn't be surprised if he slipped a little in the 9th (Abingdon, Bluefield, Blacksburg), where he lost 65-35 in the primary.

On balance, Obama should also gain more [than average across the state] in the 3rd, 4th, and 5th, with its high African-American population. The 8th is probably maxed-out in Arlington and Alexandria, but Obama could probably gain some in the Herndon and Reston area.


[ Parent ]
Which districts are the colleges in?
UVA is in the fifth, I think.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.

[ Parent ]
But no.
  The Obama campaign has put as much effort into southeastern Virginia as into northern Virginia.  A lot of the registration gains come from this district.

24, Male, GA-05

[ Parent ]
Not really
Kerry got 45% statewide and 42% in VA-02.  Gore got 44% statewide and 43% in the district.  If Obama is carrying Virginia by more than 3%, he is carrying VA-02.  

[ Parent ]
It seems to me
that Markos needs to get a new pollster.  It seems like every poll released has some caveat or flaw.  Whether it was conducted during Rosh Hashanah or doesn't include the Libertarian candidate, or the party registration is just way off.  The poll results rarely seem to match up with that of other pollsters (IL-10, AZ-3, VA-2, etc.)  I would suggest he starts using Survey USA, they're track record is much better.

16, Male, MI-01

[ Parent ]
AZ-03 and IL-10 looked about right
with their Presidential numbers.  So does WV-02 for the most part.  VA-02 looks just plain wrong.  If Obama is winning Virginia by seven points, he would have to be leading in VA-02.  

[ Parent ]
I trust Anzalone List
which showed Lord+1 and Survey USA, which showed Seals +8, way more than I trust Research 2000.

16, Male, MI-01

[ Parent ]
Um, yes.
Kerry got 41.53% in the 2nd, compared to 45.48% statewide. That's a deficit of 3.95%. Bush got 57.69% in the 2nd and 53.68% statewide, a surplus of 4.01%. By the Cook PVI method, the 2nd is R+3.98, compared to the rest of Virginia.

And again, you're assuming all of Obama's gains are coming uniformly. But this isn't necessarily true - for example, Bush improved by 9% in NJ between '00 and '04. But he closed much more in some places than others - for example, he increased 11% in Ocean County, but barely 2% in Essex County.

So it isn't a given that Obama will win the 2nd if he's winning VA by more than 3%. And again, if Kerry lost by 16% in 2004 and Obama is only losing by 9% in the 2nd, that's a 7% improvement, which is pretty good...

There are also plenty of issues with margin of error, but I digress.


[ Parent ]
Let's look at a few past victors
Jim Webb, who narrowly won the Virginia Senate race, narrowly lost the 2nd district. Tim Kaine, who won the governor's race by about 4-5%, also won the 2nd district narrowly.

Depending on the margin of victory (or loss) in Virginia, chances are that his success in the 2nd district will be closely tied. Black turnout will be greater here, primarily due to the large black population of Norfolk, which is partly contained in this district (as well as others in Virginia beach). In addition, this district also has a pretty sizeable young population here, albeit many of them are in the armed forces.

Most elections in Virginia are contingent on how well they do in the Hampton Roads - Jim Webb carried the Hampton roads and therefore won the election, and it'll be the same case here.


[ Parent ]
Very true
The second district has the fourth highest black population in the state(21.4%), and if Obama is going to win the state, he is going to need a very high black turnout.  

[ Parent ]
True, but VA-2 is actually very gerrymandered
More than it looks on a Nat'l Atlas Map.  http://www.govtrack.us/congres...
Zoom in on it.  It appears to be drawn to include only very Republican areas of Norfolk and Hampton, while the more democratic areas are drawn into the rediculusly gerrymandered 3rd District.  So Obama could probably win the Hampton roads without winning the 2nd District.

16, Male, MI-01

[ Parent ]
He would probably have to come very close
in VA-02.  

[ Parent ]
I guess Obama's gains over Kerry aren't evenly distributed in the state
A candidate's gains or losses aren't always distributed evenly.  The diary says that the black population is very dispersed in this district and harder to turn out.

In 1996, even though Bill Clinton won a bigger share of the popular vote than he did in 1992, he still lost three states in 1996 that he had won in 1992.

Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.


[ Parent ]
There's just no way.
   If Obama is winning Virginia by seven points, he also has to be winning the second district.  

24, Male, GA-05

[ Parent ]
Maybe Boucher's district is coming home
just like West Virginia.  

[ Parent ]
Possibly.
   But I'd prefer to think that Eric Cantor's district is going 55% for Obama.  

24, Male, GA-05

[ Parent ]
heh
Any Democrat winning Boucher's district is running unopposed.  

[ Parent ]
No way in VA-07
VA-07 has a ceiling of about 42% for any Democrat.  It contains some of the most partisan republican areas in the state.  

[ Parent ]
Is it the conventional wisdom
that Lampson is a goner for sure?  Is that why the NRCC is pulling their ads and the DCCC hasn't had any expenditures there since Sep. 9?

16, Male, MI-01

I'll argue he's still good
There's 2 Lampson ads on the air and 0 Olson ads. Olson has a bunch of yard signs out in Harris County, but the Lampson voters are there, just quiet due to the traditional republican nature of the district. Lots of hazing for having yard signs for a demcorat in that area (but that seems to be changing right now, Obama signs are nearly matching McCain).

I think Lampson can eke it out, 51-52% if he does.

26, Male, Democrat, TX-26


[ Parent ]
But that doesn't explain
why the GOP would pull almost a weeks worth of ads in what is arguably their best pickup opportuinity.

16, Male, MI-01

[ Parent ]
The hurricane?
Is it possible the communications in TX-22 are still far from fully restored and any TV ads won't be seen by all that many people in the district?  I mean, it wasn't exactly a small storm that blew through there.

[ Parent ]
Their job is to first protect incumbents
And they barely have enough money to do that now.

Offense is always secondary.  


[ Parent ]

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