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SSP Daily Digest: 3/12

by: Crisitunity

Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 1:57 PM EST


• NJ-Gov: Another day, another ugly poll for Jon Corzine. This time, it's this month's installment of the Quinnipiac poll. Not much change from last month: Chris Christie leads Corzine 46-37, up a bit from 44-38. This despite 61% of voters not knowing enough about Christie to form an opinion of him!

• KY-Sen: Kentucky Secretary of State Trey Grayson may be the guy on the GOP's wish list for the Kentucky Senate seat, but he said yesterday that he's running for Senate only if Jim Bunning retires. (What are the odds on that?) Meanwhile, state senate president David Williams is accusing Grayson and Bunning of being in cahoots to shut him out of the race. Good times.

• CT-Sen: You gotta love Joe Lieberman, always there to lend a helping hand. Lieberman announced that he's supporting Chris Dodd for re-election, even though Dodd supported, y'know, the Democrat in the 2006 general. As Lanny Davis puts it, "Being a mensch and a friend is more important than carrying a grudge."

• CO-04: Nice to see that someone can get a job in this economy: Marilyn Musgrave has emerged from months of post-defeat seclusion to take a leadership position with something called the Susan B. Anthony List, apparently a bizarro-world EMILY's List that supports anti-abortion female candidates for office. (No word on whether Anthony plans to sue to get her name back.) It's unclear whether this is permanent or Musgrave is staying close to donors until a rematch in CO-04.

• KS-01, KS-04: Mike Huckabee (who overwhelmingly won the Kansas caucuses) is wading into the primaries to fill the two safe GOP seats left vacant by the Jerry Moran/Todd Tiahrt scrum for the open senate seat. He's endorsing state senator Tim Huelskamp in KS-01 and state senator Dick Kelsey in KS-04. RNC member Mike Pompeo is also expected to run in KS-04, while ex-aide to Sam Brownback Rob Wasinger and businessman Tim Barker are already running in KS-01.

• Maps: Here's a nice resource to bookmark, from Ruy Teixeira and the Center for American Progress: it's a collection of interactive maps showing state-by-state 04-08 and 88-08 shifts, along with piles of 08 exit poll data.

• MN-Sen: As if you needed one more reason not to donate to Republicans, the Norm Coleman campaign accidentally made public 4.3 GB of donors' personal data, including credit card numbers and security information.
Crisitunity :: SSP Daily Digest: 3/12
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SSP Daily Digest: 3/12 | 206 comments
Too bad that Corzine wasn't tapped
to be in the Cabinet as Treasury or Commerce Secretary.  He would have been a big improvement over Geithner.
Would he really?


Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
Corzine Sucks At Governing
But I heard he left Goldman Sachs in pretty good shape before he went to the Senate.
[ Parent ]
Read this article from the Nation
http://www.thenation.com/blogs...

Corzine knew the stuff that was going on behind the scenes in the financial world, and he would clean it up.  He was fired from Goldman Sachs because he was supportive enough of the corrupt corporate/government culture and replaced by Henry Paulson.

[ Parent ]
And look where Paulson headed next.
Heh.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Lieberman is such a weasel
He was kissing the presidential butt the other day.
Great maps by Teixeira
Hard to believe Bush Sr. won Vermont 51-48% in 1988 and New Hampshire by a 63-36% margin.
Try the quiz
That Center for American Progress website has a 40 question (quick and easy) progressive quiz.

My ideological score was 347/400, making me "extremely progressive."  Probably the only thing keeping me from a higher score is the somewhat authoritarian streak I have on some issues.  

It says the average score for Americans is 209.5/400.

http://www.americanprogress.or...

256
About what I expected.
[ Parent ]
For reference
Here's the scale:
400 is most progressive, 0 is most conservative

Since my score is 100 points to the left of liberal democrats I'm not even on the chart.  Guess commies don't register.

Average score for groups:
Liberal Democrats - 247.1
2008 Obama Voters - 244.0
Liberals - 242.3
Democrats - 237.7
Progressives - 237.6
Latinos - 228.4
Post-Graduate Education - 227.0
African-Americans - 224.3
Under 29 - 219.7
Moderates - 217.4
Women - 214.3
Independents - 212.7
Catholics - 210.8

Mean Average - 209.5

HS or lower education - 206.4
Men - 204.3
Whites - 203.7
Over 64 - 200.7
Baptists - 196.4
Conservatives - 177.9
2008 McCain Voters - 169.0
Republicans - 168.4
Conservative Republicans - 160.6


[ Parent ]
I always had you down as a subversive Chad!
:)
[ Parent ]
Alas
My sinister plot is uncovered.  By a guy named conspiracy nonetheless!
[ Parent ]
Touche

[ Parent ]
I just wonder
If so many on this site have scores around 340-360'ish, what would be the mean score at Open Left?  385? 395?
[ Parent ]
Pragmatic progressives live here
That be the difference.
[ Parent ]
About ten points higher.

[ Parent ]
360-375ish
but no mention that the average score is 210.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
You're right!
   I'm sure it's all a part of Chris Bowers' evil plot to move to Alabama and primary challenge Bobby Bright.  Does that not make sense?  Just wait until the entire plan is revealed later this year!

 I got 361.  

John McCain lets lobbyists shape his economic policy

[ Parent ]
No joke
I've seen primarying Bobby Bright suggested at Open Left.

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
Bwahahahaha!
   And that's just the beginning!  Just wait...  I nominate Chris Bowers for President of Pennsylvania for when we secede.  We will immediately declare war on the Republic of Texas and its president, Chuck Norris.

http://politicalticker.blogs.c...

John McCain lets lobbyists shape his economic policy

[ Parent ]
Bowers would be unelectable in Pennsylvania
just sayin...maybe Massachusetts

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
For the most part yes
But since Bowers lives in Philly, his views could get him elected. Anywhere else in this state: fat chance.

Anyhoo took the test, got a 320/400. Pretty good for a centrist Dem. Not liberal enough for OpenLeft though. But alright for this site and maybe a few other liberal blogs like TPM and Kos.

[ Parent ]
Ugh!
   Even when I am mocking you, you are still doing political analysis.  You win!

John McCain lets lobbyists shape his economic policy
[ Parent ]
Wonder what Bowers's cutoff is
I'd put his cutoff at 300.  A Dem candidate must be politically over 300 on this test to prevent Bowers from demanding a primary challenger for them, regardless of whether they represent San Francisco or AL-02.
[ Parent ]
RE: extremely progressive
I got a 364.

This makes me extremely progressive.

Mine mentioned the average of 209.5.

Nothing on guns or smoking to lower the score.

Nothing on drugs to boost it, either.

As before, I am socially libertarian and fiscally progressive.

Kops, Kings, an Klergyman:  

My three reasons for concluding that there must be a hell.

I am very much anti-authoritarian.

[ Parent ]
Yeargh!
   Those craaaazy Open Lefters!  Really, you guys need to find a doppleganger more menacing than Chris Bowers.

  Also, Alan Grayson.

John McCain lets lobbyists shape his economic policy

[ Parent ]
Maybe I'm too conservative here?
I love you guys, but with a big fat 382, I'm wondering if I should be wandering over to OpenLeft.  Just kidding.  No, I think the difference is just one of civility and tactics.  If we could win most primaries against our "Bad Dems" and still have enough money and good enough candidates to gain even more seats than we have, that'd be great.  But it's not reality.  Money isn't infinite and Alabama and Utah won't be electing Barbara Lee clones anytime soon.  Wish that weren't the case, but it is.  Hey guys, we should set up a poll and see where everybody lies on the scorecard.
[ Parent ]
These numbers
either show that their quiz is crappy or that we all don't actually have that much difference but it's just massively overplayed by the media and by politicians.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Nate had something on this yesterday
[ Parent ]
My view
Is that people lie to make themselves appear more moderate than they really are.  Go to any news website and look at the comments.  Very few take a moderate tone.  They are mostly at the extremes.

In all honesty I'll bet the people at the extremes are the more informed and probably more intelligent.  It's my experience that people who are "centrists" or consider them selves "moderates" are that way because they are too lazy to stay informed on the issues.

[ Parent ]
I think that has more to do
with the fact that the extremes feel they need to make their voices heard more than the moderates.

Moderates feel they're being listened to, so there's no need to go to message boards or call into C-SPAN.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens

[ Parent ]
"Centrist" and "Moderate" don't mean anything IMO
They are entirely subjective terms.  
[ Parent ]
We label the "centrists" or the "moderates"
as either pragmatists who support or do what they can to get their agenda through. (someone who doesn't support legalizing gay marriage in a place like Ohio is deemed a moderate, but really is just being real).

Or someone who make be mostly liberal or conservative, but takes the other's sides view on one issue or another. (i.e. a liberal who is against gun control, a conservative who supports marriage equality)


Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens

[ Parent ]
I completely agree with this assessment
of political terminology.  I do consider myself very well-informed and strong in some of my convictions (anti-death penalty, pro-gay marriage, pro-universal health care, etc.) but most issues just dont have the type of clear cut moral, legal or political answer that we may desire.  

Pushing gay marriage through the OH state legislature would be harder than the CA state legislature just like pushing increased gun control through the AL state legislature would be more difficult than through the MA state legislature.  I am pro-gay marriage and against most restrictions on purchasing firearms but if I have a vote in the OH legislature to create some protections and rights for gay couples where they didnt exist before, even if its not all I want in the bill, I am going to vote for that bill.

Whether these things make me "moderate" or "centrist" I dont know, but I have put considerable study and thought to these questions.  My lack of a clear, black and white answer and willingness to vote on half-assed legislation probably would make me a Democratic pragmatist, but I would not believe it makes me less informed.  Legislative bodies are filled with folks who both have strength in their convictions and the good sense to vote for legislation that gets us half way to a desired outcome when they know they cant get us the whole way.  Unfortunately, these types of folks are, mostly, Democrats, not Republicans.

[ Parent ]
Studies actually confirm
some of what you say. Most studies show that people that identify themselves as extremely liberal or extremely conservative tend to be the most informed about politics. People who identify themselves as moderates are the least informed. It works for partisan identification also; people who claim a strong party preference are the most informed and independents are the least informed.
[ Parent ]
Exit polls
I notice in exit polls in even the most liberal states like VT and MA most people regard themselves as moderate. I think a very, very good percentage of people whom identify themselves as moderate are actually liberal/progressive. On the other end of the spectrum, conservatives dont seem to mind calling themselves conservative. I dont think conservatives will start to call themselves moderate anytime soon but i do think more and more progressives/liberals will start to identify themselves as progressive or liberal.
[ Parent ]
And to be honest...
I myself could be a true liberal/progressive rather than a moderate (which i describe myself). Who knows. I guess i should take more tests to figure it all out.
[ Parent ]
I think it was a leadership issue
The last President as far as I can tell who proudly wore the label progressive or liberal was FDR.  Well, maybe LBJ but Vietnam wore off that label fast.

If Obama's Presidency is successful I think we're going to see a whole generation of people attaching themselves to words like liberal and progressive.  Maybe even socialist if the right-wingers keep pushing that meme.  

[ Parent ]
If it wasnt for their neo-con foreign policy
The extreme right of the GOP could be labeled as 'nationalist', like the extreme right in Europe is. But i guess its hard to do that when their foreign policy is very pro-Israel (as nationalism means you only look out for your own country and no one else). Most nationalists in Europe probably hate Israel, although I think that main nationalist in The Netherlands (who made headlines worldwide) is very pro-Israel.
[ Parent ]
Dangit, conspiracy! You one-upped me!
I was trying for the "least lib'rul Dam'crat" title!

(jk)

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
Where is Kyle when we need him?!

[ Parent ]
I'd guess
That he'd be around 180'ish.  On the moderate end of the republican party.
[ Parent ]
Actually
I came out at 133, though some of the way the questions where asked it was hard to answer them correctly.

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.
[ Parent ]
Fascist!

[ Parent ]
No
But almost lol. j/k

Probably my most liberal answer was on free trade, something I am very much against.

A cat can have kittens in an oven but that doesn't make them biscuits.

[ Parent ]
I know what you mean
This test doesn't seem very accurate to me either.  I think it's probably one of those political tests where you can get a good picture by surveying thousands of people and publishing the results, which is how they got their averages by group/background, etc.  

But looking at one person's results may not be accurate.  I could probably take this test 10 times any have a variance of 50 points.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, 0-10 scale is probably too fine
and besides, this doesn't differentiate between different issues.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Agreed
And given that it was 40 questions i often just guessed. Or else id have taken an hour to take the test and, well, thats just too boring.
[ Parent ]
Well..
Estimated how i felt, I mean. itd take me forever to clearly think out every single answer (since its 1-10 and not yes/no or 1 through 5).
[ Parent ]
Weird
Took me no more than 10 seconds for each question.  Probably because I'm at either polar end of the scale on nearly all questions.  I guess for people more moderate it may take more time.  Probably 5 questions out of the 40 I answered with between a 3 and 8.
[ Parent ]
362

[ Parent ]
I'm at 353
I'm surprised that I haven't called for a communist uprising in the US :P

Your go-to source for great sarcasm
[ Parent ]
Woah there
I'm feeling positively Republican. Then again I'm not American!
[ Parent ]
Ya, same here
I'm at 347/400, a full 100 points to the left of the group defined as liberal democrats.  I'd imagine I'm not quite as far left as Lenin, Marx or Che.  Ok, maybe I am...
[ Parent ]
The proletariat must overthrow the bourgeoisise and establish a Marxist paradise
No room for any doubts! (Yeah, I'm taking a class on Political and Social Philosophy that just basically looks at Marxist thought, so... :D)

Your go-to source for great sarcasm
[ Parent ]
359


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[ Parent ]
382
Beat that!
[ Parent ]
Bah, you damn godless commie!!!
:D

Your go-to source for great sarcasm
[ Parent ]
317
I guess my answers about trade didn't put me into the stratosphere.  
[ Parent ]
I'm still undecided on the issue of trade policy
Still haven't sorted through that issue.  It's more of a mess than some other issues.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
I'm not. I gave it a 10.
But it's a question that splits the Democratic party.
[ Parent ]
277
I am kinda surprised it didnt ask about guns where, at least I, probably most break away from generic coastal Dems.  

Also surprised that the CAP quiz considers me "very progressive" and that the average American scores 209.5 considering most people I talk to about politics consider me a "moderate Dem."  I think it may be that I am more moderate than the perception of the Democratic Party and that I tend to believe that solutions to societal problems are far more nuanced than the sound bytes afforded through television.  Nonetheless, interesting quiz.  Definitely worth the 5 or so minutes it takes to complete it.    

[ Parent ]
Good point
I think they left off guns because it's hard to determine what the "progressive view" on that issue is.  One could argue that having the right one is an essential right of all people and therefore is progressive.  Or you could argue the other side and claim that is the progressive view.  I tend to think that the first option is progressive.
[ Parent ]
Precisely what I thought
I take an expanded view of what the Constitution means.  For speech that means as few restrictions as possible to limiting speech.  Same with guns.  Sam with searches, seizures, privacy, etc.  Ive started calling myself a Constitutional Democrat recently because that seems to be the only taxonomy that would mostly describe me.  

Of course, Scalia, Alito and Thomas may take exception with that characterization.  Probably Roberts too

[ Parent ]
We are political soulmates!
I'm a economic populist but libertarian on everything else. I like to call myself "pro-death" because I support abortion rights, gun rights, euthanasia, medical marijuana, and the death penalty.
[ Parent ]
due to marijuana?
or just due to the drug trade?

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Clumped that in just because it deal with end of life issues.
But drug trade too if you go broader.
[ Parent ]
I'm starting to wonder
With the escalating drug related crime rate in the southwest and even southeast states like Florida, I wonder if it may make more people supportive of legalizing more drugs.  Most of these cartels would be brought to their knees if a lot of these drugs were legal.
[ Parent ]
Pot legalization
Pot would have to be the first but the public schools indoctrinate our kids into thinking pot is almost as bad as heroin. Should kids or anyone under 18 do pot? No. But indoctrinating them into thinking its some hard drug is just wrong. IMO...alcohol is worse than pot is. And I'll always stand by that.
[ Parent ]
You're actually making me wonder
what would happen if they made marijuana a (semi-?)controlled substance the way alcohol is--like, 18+ only or 21+ only or something like that.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Well almost
I do not support the death penalty.  8th Amendment doesnt allow for cruel and unusual punishment and what can be more cruel than actually executing people?  Plus, it is uneconomical and immoral, but I suppose we can agree to disagree here.  I do support a womans right to choose, physician-assisted suicide and medical marijuana though.  

Also, I am more of a free trader than a populist but I am beginning to come back to the middle here.  We need to do a better job of negotiating these compacts and really enforce provisions we want in them.  I do believe free trade is the superior choice measured against protectionism and that it does bring down the costs of consumer goods, but it needs better oversight and we need to do a better job of creating new, green-collar jobs to make up what is lost in the manufacturing sector.  

[ Parent ]
Hey Ron Wyden is a free-trader so you're in good company!
I think a lot of coastal Dems share your viewpoint.
[ Parent ]
This medical marijuana thing is garbage
It should be legalized period.  This is by far the most idiotic ban remaining in our country.  Alcohol does many times more harm than marijuana ever has.
[ Parent ]
Preach it
I absolutely agree. But I dont know when it will be legalized. Sure, today's young generation probably wants to see it legalized...but you can argue the same thing of the young generation in the 70s and 80s and 90s. Unfortunately, once they got into their 30s or so and started to have families it seems their views on pot evolved.  
[ Parent ]
Haha
You said "evolved".

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Same here
Though i dont think id indentify myself as 'pro-death' LOL. But I agree on everything else you said in that post. And as said above also against many public smoking laws. As well as being pro legalized prostitution (heavily regulated, though. NV has a good system).
[ Parent ]
Gun control
Ive noticed that many liberal bloggers differ on gun control with liberals in general. I guess its because liberal bloggers tend to have quite a cultural libertarian streak. In fact i wouldnt be surprised if many of them are against many public smoking laws, too. I for one am. And I dont even care to smoke. Just a part of my social libertarian streak.
[ Parent ]
I have more of a problem with smoking than with carrying weapons
You can carry a gun, but as long as you're not psycho and you don't hate me, I'm probably okay.  But if you're smoking, I mind the smell, and so do quite a lot of people.  Not to mention the health problems.

I also just thought about this: We have laws against murder/homicide/manslaughter, as well as attempted murder, assault, burglary with a weapon, and stuff like that, that can indirectly apply to guns.  But apart from warning labels, there are no laws protecting people who can't stand cigarette smoke, unless there are smoking bans.

And you can always smoke outside.  Though I guess it does get pretty cold in winter in many parts of the U.S....

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
Smoking bans
Well I absolutely think that theres places that should ban smoking but i think restaurants and bars and clubs should allow them. And some other places too. And I have no problem if those privately owned places want to ban smoking on their premises. As its their property. I will say, I hate the sight of seeing cigerettes laying on the ground in places like public parks. Im a huge nature freak and seeing litter there makes me livid. Not to mention the environmental effect in general.
[ Parent ]
I'm wondering how many people clicked 10 and 0
That probably knocks the scale off a little. I think I did once on homosexuality. Like you I think there are more shades of gray than we sometimes want to believe.
[ Parent ]
Most of my answers were between 3 and 7
Only rarely did I answer in the extremes.

I don't like how they lumped stuff together.  That too.

Like, their abortion question had two things: (1) life beginning at conception (which I disagree with) and (2) life being worth protecting (which I agree with).  How am I supposed to answer that?

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
I answered a strong "no"
It was a clear-cut question for me.
[ Parent ]
I gave it a 1 or 2 I think
because my guess is that they're using this question to gauge both abortion and embryonic stem cell policies.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Y'know, indication number 1 that a quiz is crappy
is when you have to apply meta-knowledge to answer the questions.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
My take on that question was that it wasn't a two parter
And more along the lines of an if you accept the premise that life begins at conception then should you protect life as soon as it begins (in other words, should life, to mean the newly conceived fetus by the premise of the question, be protected).

Your go-to source for great sarcasm
[ Parent ]
See, that tends to fail spectacularly for people like me
Who commonly pick apart phrasing in order to be specific.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
I'm mostly playing some devil's advocate
While I distract myself from finishing a paper for my Constitutional Law class (right now I'm answering a question in which the majority holding of the main case was authored by Scalia... shudder)

Your go-to source for great sarcasm
[ Parent ]
Abortion question
I didnt like how they questioned that either. I do agree that life begins at conception (whether or not it has a soul, i dont know. but it is technically living) but i do still believe in the right to choose (up until the point of viability, and even then theres certain exceptions)
[ Parent ]
Well, it is technically living
but IIRC they specifically asked about human life.  Not sure, though, so if you wanna check, go ahead.

Of course, we can debate the point about human life all night long anyway, but at least we agree that this quiz needs be taken with enough grains of salt to fill one's daily value of sodium.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
I think it allows too much gradation
Unless I disagreed with the premise of a question, in which case I voted 5, I tended to vote 8-10 and 0-2.
[ Parent ]
Yeah, gradation makes it hard to compare
Though I guess it does take into account people's intensity of opinion.  Compare ordinary citizens with political activists and you'll probably find a lot more extreme votes with the latter group.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
ARRGH THE QUESTIONS ARE SO BLATANTLY POLITICAL
At least they could have TRIED to make it less knee-jerk.

Anyway, my score is 263/400.

They call that "very progressive".  Oh whatever.  I once saw a 0-10 quiz that called you "very bad" for 0-4, "average" for 5, and "very good" for 6-10.  I don't trust these stupid labels unless they show me their definitions.

I HOPE not all of those questions are taken as higher number = more progressive, because some of them were clearly not.

Commentary: (sorry I started writing when I got to #21)

* some question about changes to the traditional American family: wait, what exactly IS the traditional American family?  Extended family?  Nuclear family?  stay-at-home mom family?  both parents at work and children go to school and get daycare family?  father works on farm, mother works in the house, and children play in the fields family?

* 21. We must do whatever is necessary to protect America from terrorism, even if it means restricting civil liberties or engaging in methods some might call torture.: what about "not being an international jackass" or "keeping one's head down when the sh** hits the fan"?

* 29. A positive image of America around the world is necessary to achieve our national security goals.: thank you.

* 36. Religious faith should focus more on promoting tolerance, social justice, and peace in society, and less on opposing abortion and gay rights.: you mean they should focus more on being nice to people and less on flamebaiting?

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
#21
They're talking about the 1950s, Donna Reed, didn't actually exist "traditional family" that conservatives are so obsessed with.

I guess times were easier for a conservative back then, back in the day when redlining laws kept minorities out of suburbs nationwide and before you had to care about the blatant oppression of African-Americans in the South. Not like now when we're keeping the tradition, conservative Whiteman down by, gasp forcing him to live in the same neighborhood as Black people and doublegasp forcing his children to go to school with Mexican immigants! Oh the humanity!

Don't ever think for a second that the "traditional families" schtick isn't a thin veil for racist and sexist ideology, mmkay?

[ Parent ]
Wait, not #21
You know what I meant...
[ Parent ]
Heh.
Well, then there's the question, were they thinking that when they wrote the question?

And then there's the question, exactly what SHOULD I be thinking when I'm trying to answer the damn question?

Dang meta-gaming.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
Traditional family
To me, the idea that a non-changing 'traditional family' has been with us for many generations is a myth. Because whats considered a 'traditional family' changes like every generation. 30 years ago a traditional family was white/white marriages, black/black, hispanic/hispanic, etc. 70 years ago it was upper class/upper class marriages, middle class/middle class, lower class/lower class, etc. For much of the 19th century and before the marriages were arranged and the marriages were most certainly not based on any kind of romantic love. The Religious Right wants us to believe weve had the same kind of traditional family for generations. And, since this is a political site and not social commentary, ill end with saying that hopefully real political change happens in this country on the issue of gay rights (civil unions, marriage, adoption, etc) and that once it does itll hopefully become accepted. sometimes it takes an issue becoming 'status quo' to become accepted. Such as euthanasia and legalized prostitution and legalized medical marijuana.
[ Parent ]
Gay couples
They have ALWAYS been around.  Heck, in many ancient cultures such as Rome and to some extend Sparta they were widely accepted.  Same with most of the other things you mention such as drugs and prostitution.

That's where religion comes into play.  Religions have always been and will always be about imposing views on masses and stripping human rights away.  It's at the core of nearly every religion, especially the monotheistic ones.  And it's a major reason I despise most religions.  

[ Parent ]
Communist countries
Even many authoritarian communist countries whom are officially atheist and secular are also hardline anti-gay. Though I think Cuba is starting to come around, based on what Ive heard.
[ Parent ]
RE: Civil Rights for all
I thought I would just note what is going on in Pa.

I just saw the following article with regards to this:

House State Government Committee Reports Out Bill Banning Job Discrimination Against Gays

by Rep Mark B Cohen on Thu, 03/12/2009 - 4:53pm.

   * Gay Rights
   * Job Discrimination
   * PA House of Representatives
   * State Government Committee

At about 2:00 p.m., Wednesday, March 11,2009, the State Government Committee of the Pennsylvania House of Representatives, chaired by Babette Josephs of Center City, passed House Bill 300, banning discrimination in employment against gays.

Each of the 12 Democrats voting voted for the bill, sponsored by Dan Frankel of Pittsburgh along with 77 co-sponsors, and every Republican voting voted against it. The margin was 12 to 11.

The bill goes to the House Appropriations Committee, chaired by Dwight Evans of West Oak Lane, and then to the floor the House, where its fate is uncertain at this time.

This is the first time any bill that bans employment discrimination against gays has passed a Pennsylvania legislative committee. My pride is, of course, greatly tempered by the facts that it is now more than 26 years since the Philadelphia City Council banned employment discrimination against gays in the City of Philadelphia, and twenty states have already passed such legislation, as have many Pennsylvania local governments.

Ironically, the bill is now potentially passable because employment discrimination against gays, once severe, is now far less onerous than it used to be. Every Fortune 500 corporation headquartered in Pennsylvania, for instance, has banned discrimination against gays as a matter of corporate policy.

Today, the issue of employment discrimination is substantially a matter of dignity. If this bill becomes law, gay job applicants will have less fear of their sexual orientation being discovered in job interviews and background checks. If this bill becomes law, gay employees will be much more freely able to turn down requests for dates with heterosexuals with an honest "I'm gay."

I would like to say in floor debate that passage of House Bill 300 will get gays out of the shadow of forced secrecy, and into the sunlight of human dignity. Pennsylvania was in the forefront of civil rights protections for racial and religious minorities and women, and it is a shame that the best we can do now for gays is to get in the middle of the pack of the 50 states.

But, as long as injustice exists, we have a duty to remedy it. Hopefully, legislators of all ideological stripes will soon be hearing from their gay constituents, and the family members and friends of gays, as well as people who just know an outrageous injustice when they see it.

Well, there is a state legislator that I hope has a chance to advance in the party.

He not only speaks well, but he acts upon that speech.

[ Parent ]
300 Even
I don't like business, but I don't trust government either.
[ Parent ]
310
I answered a lot of 8s and a lot of 2s. And several questions were false choices. But all in all, better than most of the political quizzes out there.  
[ Parent ]
291/400.
"This makes you very progressive."

Compared to some other people who took the test, I feel like a Republican. :(

[ Parent ]
365
And I'm probably more authoritarian that you are, but my authoritarianism is targeted specifically toward wingnuts and Repubs, in that I think they should sent to reeducation camps, and their leaders to prison.  At the least they should be shut up.
[ Parent ]
Reeducation camps are pushing it
But there definately needs to be serious reform in grade schools to indoctrinate children into the leftist mindset from a young age.  But you are probably right on their leaders.  There is little hope for them.  Using gitmo for political prisoners would probably work.  
[ Parent ]
What they need to be indoctrinated into
is free thought.  Have them think for themselves...I mean really analyze the world for themselves, and the rest will follow.
[ Parent ]
Wish it worked that way
But too many of these kids get indoctrinated by their religious wacko families.  Which is where schools should fill the void.  Delegitimizing private religious based schools and homeschooled kids would be a start.  Have public universities not accept students in those circumstances and it would solve part of the problem.
[ Parent ]
No, that's what I mean
What I meant by think for themselves, I meant do critical analysis.  Don't follow what your parents think.  Don't follow what the schools are telling you...at least not with this standardized testing crap.  Don't do any of these things unless you tooO have reason to believe something is so.
[ Parent ]
Home schooling
Well the problem i have with home schooling isnt so much about religion but purely education. Public and private HS students have to compete (for college, obviously) with homeschooled kids who could very well be obviously cheating. Well, them or their parents cheating. Parents say theyre for fairness and try to instill those values in their kids but they can be quite hypocritical. Many will do anything to get their own kids ahead. And with them in control of their kids homework and tests (as a homeschooled teacher) then thats scary. And its hard to give proper oversight when a parent just tells little Johnny 'put this answer in your test...good boy'. And no one's the wiser.
[ Parent ]
I mean the kid/parent or just their parents cheating
Obviously the parent would always have a hand in it. Sometimes, to be fair to the kid, they simply may not know mommy is trying to help them out. Sometimes kids are that naive.
[ Parent ]
Colleges not accepting them
Its not fair to the kids, though, if its not their choice to go to those schools or be homescholed (even 18 year olds dont have much of a choice unless they wanna be kicked outta their house). Unless theres cheating going on, obviously. It reminds me of a story i heard a while back about a private religious school kicking out a kid because they found out mommy's a stripper. Its not the kid's fault that his mom broke some ridiculous 'parental moral' code.

And its not likely to ever get passed. Seemingly every elected official puts their kid in private school. On both the left, right, center, Republican and Democrat. Its across the board. Kind of like how, during the Vietnam War, they didnt want to make college kids go to 'Nam. Because thatd mean their boy could very well be sent to war. Even though they might have supported the war themselves.

[ Parent ]
It's just a systemic problem
Everything from the military to the CIA to the FBI have way too many right-wingers.  Purging these organizations of right-wingers and replacing them with politically appointed leftists would be the first step.  Take over the power structure and the rest of the right-wing machine collapses.
[ Parent ]
Not just purge them
but court martial them.  

But it goes both ways.  Liberals and lefties have to overcome their dislike of the police state, CIA, FBI, etc as well and be willing to join.  Liberals also need to relax their extreme civil libertarianism that I see very often.  Getting rid of the wingnuts won't work unless liberals are willing to join the CIA, FBI, military, etc, and be willing to use the power in a ruthless fashion.  

[ Parent ]
Uh, no thank you.
This isn't a game where the sole goal is to win. If we abandon our principles in the name of winning we abandon any reason for winning. So I'll keep my "dislike" of the police state.

I'm all for using hardball political tactics, but not illegal, or even legal, abuses of government power.

[ Parent ]
I guess you must really like
a right-wing Bush/Cheney dictatorship.  Because that is the only other option.
[ Parent ]
Woah! What?

[ Parent ]
I mean what I say
Either the President uses some hard core authoritarian methods against the right-wing (Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, even a Gitmo and detentions without trial) or there will be a right-wing coup in this country within a few years which will set up a permanent right-wing dictatorship.

If liberals don't get over their issues with using authoritarian means, the alternative is a wingnut dictatorship.  

[ Parent ]
Tonight
Beck is holding a "we surround them" rally.  Threats don't get much more blatent than that.  That rally should be closely monitored and arrests made if necessary.
[ Parent ]
They should try reading the polls
They are surrounded 2-1. All hat no cattle.
[ Parent ]
I think you just send the cops
to crack their skulls.  Rallies like this should be met with excessive force so these fascists get a taste of their own medicine.
[ Parent ]
You have a lot of trust in our leaders, don't you?

[ Parent ]
Yes, a good deal of trust
I know my friends from my enemies.  And most of the enemies of this country reside in this country.  Hence the reason they need to be monitored and isolated if necessary.
[ Parent ]
How do you know that you won't be the one being monitored?

[ Parent ]
Don't see why I would be
I'm as solid of a supporter of this administration as anyone.  But I really couldn't care less if I was.  Nothing to hide here.
[ Parent ]
hmm
that was the counterargument for FISA.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
Pretty much
And they were not wrong in saying it, they were only wrong in it's use.  Now we have the keys to the kingdom and can use FISA.  It's a great tool to have at your disposal.
[ Parent ]
so wait
It's ok for us to use it against political enemies, but not ok for them to use it?

Doesn't that sound hypocritical?  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens

[ Parent ]
Not really
It's only hypocritical if you're on the wrong side
[ Parent ]
which is the "wrong side"
everyone thinks they're right. I'm sure when Bush used it, he though we were on the wrong side.


Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
They are not political enemies
If that's all they were, I would oppose using these tools.  I don't support wiretapping Mitch McConnell or John Boehner, for example.

They are terrorists and traitors who want to bring the country down, overthrow the government, and assassinate my President.

[ Parent ]
ah
but what happens when McConnell and Boehner try to stop you from using it against Limbaugh and Coulter, what happens when after you kill them, McConnell and Boehner step in and say "this is wrong"

Then you kill them. Then when more moderate element come out and say you're wrong for killing them, you kill them

and before you know it, thousands upon thousands of people are being killed.

Are you so afraid that a coup attempt would be successfull? Do you not trust that the American people would defend their President and their democracy from people like this.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens

[ Parent ]
I'm not talking about killing anyone
I'm talking about keeping tabs and infiltrating their groups, which is what the Patriot Act permits for terrorist groups.  Wiretap all the wingnut leaders, and infiltrate all the wingnut groups and churches and get a sense of what their plans are, and destroy them from within.
This can all be done without the knowledge of the public or Congress using the Patriot Act.

If they attempt a coup though, which is likely, IMO, without good domestic intelligence on these wingnuts, then the gloves come off, and there should be immediate executions.  

Yes I am afraid of a serious coup attempt.  The wingnuts have tried it in the past, they tried to overthrow FDR in 1933, and assassinated Lincoln (and would have done so earlier if Lincoln didn't use some extra constitutional means.)  I'm not so afraid that the people won't stand up against these kinds of goons, but that they will be unable to.  There is a lot of criminals in corporate America which will support these wingnuts if they can avoid having to surrender large parts of their wealth.  

[ Parent ]
I would only advocate it
if it's used only to repair the damage they have done, and nothing else.

Abolishment of the pillar system by Hikaru, yo.  [/Magic Knight Rayearth reference]

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
I support warrentless wiretapping
I feel that it is a necessary tool to use against foreign terrorists as well as domestic wingnut terrorists and traitors.

I'm also now very strongly for using the Patriot Act against the wingnuts and their base.  Use it very liberally.

[ Parent ]
Those are the only two options.
Us or them. With us or against us. Anything is okay as long as the "good guys" do it. Remind you of anyone?

"If the fires of freedom and civil liberties burn low in other lands they must be made brighter in our own. If in other lands the press and books and literature of all kinds are censored, we must redouble our efforts here to keep them free. If in other lands the eternal truths of the past are threatened by intolerance we must provide a safe place for their perpetuation." -FDR

[ Parent ]
I agree.


Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
This is the same FDR
who had no problem using J Edgar Hoover to spy on his 1940 Republican opponent Wendell Willkie to make sure that he didn't change his position on action against the Axis, things like Lend-Lease, etc.

In doing so, FDR found out that Willkie had a mistress, but since Henry Wallace had his own skeletons (the Guru letters), both sides agreed not to use this info in the campaign.

[ Parent ]
I hate Bush's values and his policies
I kind of admire his political tactics and methods, especially much of what Karl Rove did.  I was very much against it when used against us, but god if we had our Karl Rove, I'd turn him loose and make Karl Rove look like a wuss.
[ Parent ]
Most liberals wont be on board with that
If they arent on board with illegally wiretapping potential terrorists they certainly arent going to be on board with doing that to far right Republicans.  
[ Parent ]
They will be once the righties try a coup against Obama
Which is what I can already see the right-wing building towards.  I think he'll survive if it happens and then we'll see the type of crackdown n the right-wing that is necessary.
[ Parent ]
If they try a coup
I would like to see mass executions of wingnuts without trial, and a Gitmo for wingnuts where appropriate methods are used for interrogation and punishment.

Personally, I would like to see the Patriot Act used against the wingnut organizations right now, and people like Rush Limbaugh arrested and detained.  I would pay money to take a job as an official interrogator of Rush Limbaugh.  I would use some very nice "enhanced interrogation techniques".

[ Parent ]
TL;DR
Not THIS argument again...

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Are you serious?
Were you Maximilian Robespierre in a past life?

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
I'm dead serious
if they try a coup against the President, then these creatures should be simply eliminated.  There should be no due process for such creatures.  The 14th Amendment protects persons, and those involved in the coup would not be "persons" IMO.
[ Parent ]
Robespierre is one of my heroes
cause that's how you ought to deal with right-wing terrorists.
[ Parent ]
By being a left wing terrorist?
The Reign of Terror was where the word terrorism was born.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
I don't consider Robespierre a terrorist
he got a little power drunk and paranoid at the end, but he didn't do any insurgent activity.
[ Parent ]
Good lord
Forces both inside and outside France were on the doorstep of bringing down the French Revolution.  The revolutionaries did what was necessary.  Did you really think revolutions were bloodless?
[ Parent ]
I really like having you around
usually when I'm making my arguments, I'm alone getting beaten up by many unrealistic civil libertarians who don't get the kind of dangerous times that we live in.
[ Parent ]
Thanks
I used to be in the same line of thinking with so many others in the left blogosphere on these issues.  But as much as I'd like to live in the world they envision I've come to the realization that unlikely.  When the other side is so willing to use any means to achieve it's aim we have to be willing and ready to completely destroy them.  
[ Parent ]
They sent 17,000 people to the guilltoine
people like Antoine Laviosier who actually sided with them. They went after scientists, intelligencia, and women. They were way out of control, way past what was necessary. That's what happens when you do stuff like that.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
Again, revolutions are messy
Some innocent people are always going to get caught up in a revolution.  It's unfortunate, but the ends justify the means.  Most French people I've come across are damn glad that the revolution happened, despite it's cost.  Otherwise France may still have a ridiculous tyrannical monarchy as so many other European nations had for so long.

Also, you won't find it in your grade school American history books but there were countless atrocities committed during the American Revolution.  Had Tories not been suppressed and in many cases outright killed in this country the Revolution may not have succeeded.  Would you rather those atrocities not happened and we still be under British rule?

[ Parent ]
And as I said to one of your other posts
These people are not just political enemies, if that's all they were, I would oppose using these tools.  I don't support wiretapping Mitch McConnell or John Boehner, for example.

They are terrorists and traitors who want to bring the country down, overthrow the government, and assassinate my President.  

[ Parent ]
Well, if there are actual plans to bring down (quite reasonably elected) government
Then they of course should be investigated and stopped.  Homeland security should protect from both abroad and within.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
The problem is that
a majority of the entire grassroots wingnut movement would like to do that.  And at the least the Patriot Act should be used to infiltrate these groups to determine what these wingnut organizations and churches are up to.
[ Parent ]
A coup attempt is different
that's the only situation when you CAN resort to those types of things.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
If the administration doesn't use its powers
to crack down on wingnuts, we'll have a right-wing coup attempt very soon.  Many on the right are already at the threshold of violence and are just itching to do mass domestic terrorism.
[ Parent ]
And for those who think "nah can't happen here in the U.S."
Read up on the Business Plot.  There was an active attempt to bring down FDR that many don't even know about.  They will try it again.  Mark my words.  And we all must be prepared to do what is necessary when they do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...

[ Parent ]
Thanks for this
people here seem to have forgotten history and are living in their academic civil libertarian world.
[ Parent ]
If Liberals "overcome" their dislike for a police state
they stop being liberals.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens
[ Parent ]
Strongly disagree
Lincoln and FDR used many of harsh techniques that could be considered unconstitutional.  They bent the Constitution to save the country, which is why they are considered great Presidents.

Either President Obama does the same regarding these wingnuts, or we will have a right-wing dictatorship.

[ Parent ]
I'm not particularly comfortable with your fearmongering.
And I'm inclined to believe that there is a middle ground between the two.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
Of course you're not comfortable
it is not a comfortable thought by any means that there's a possibility that our elected form of government could be overthrown.  But these wingnuts and Christofascists don't think that the law applies to them, and they don't respect elections which go against them.
[ Parent ]
Well, them nuts are currently reeling from their electoral defeat (even though I didn't think it was that particularly dramatic)
and they're also beating each other into bloody pulps over it.  (Thank you, Rush Limbaugh?)

I'm inclined to wait for the dust to settle first, at the very least.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
The elected officials are reeling
The Rush Limbaughs, Chuck Norrises, Glenn Becks, Michael Savages, Ann Coulters, and more importantly those who listen to them, are plotting to overthrow the government and forcibly overthrow my President.  And same with a lot of the churches in the South.  I support the use of the Patriot Act, etc against these grassroots organization, not wiretapping Mitch McConnell.

[ Parent ]
People like that are walking on a line there.
I'd say Mr. Limbaugh is allowed to wish--and to express his wish--that the Obama administration fails to fix the economy.

However, if he should take actions to intentionally cause harm, ranging from asking his supporters to cause runs on banks to plots to assassinate public officials, and even if he is merely conspiring to do so, then that's completely unacceptable.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
Limbaugh's statement is an anti-American
and treasonous comment.  The danger is that some of his more extreme listeners will take it several steps further.

I know some of these wingnuts.  They are truly unhinged right now, and many of them are hinting at forcibly overthrowing the government and removing Obama.  I reported two people to the Secret Service because their threats and wishes chilled my spine.

[ Parent ]
How do you contact them?
I've heard statements from people discussing similar things.  The SS really needs to get their information out there so that people know who to contact.  Maybe even having official informants around the country would help stop such things from happening.
[ Parent ]
Here's the contact info
How can I report a threat towards a protectee?

Contact your nearest U.S. Secret Service field office which is listed in the "Emergency Numbers" section in the front of most phone books.

http://www.secretservice.gov/f...

[ Parent ]
Thanks
This information definately needs to be spread around the blogosphere.  I'll post it where I can.
[ Parent ]
and you think
the citizens of this country will sit back and let that happen?

But we can't jump the gun here. It's already illegal to openly speak about overthrowing the government. Always has been, so this is not new, but at what point do we begin taking away people's freedoms? When they specifically say they want to overthrow our government? or when they said they want the government to fail?  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens

[ Parent ]
According to ben masel on Daily Kos
it is actually not illegal to advocate overthrowing the government.  He cites two Supreme Court decisions (written by liberal Justices) in the late 60s/early 70s to defend his position.  I could see today's opportunistic wingnut Supreme Court holding that for wingnuts who may be tried for advocating overthrowing this government.

I'd also like the administration (Joe Biden is the best for this) to publicly state that these wingnuts are threatening the security of the President with comments that he is not a born-citizen, other racist comments or saying that they want the President to fail.  Not to mention the agitprop coming from the rest of these creature's mouths.

[ Parent ]
In my opinion
Rumors (untrue, of course) that Obama is ineligible to be POTUS: fine by me, even though they're one of the most tell-tale signs of idiocy.

Saying that they want the U.S. government to fail: okay by me, even though I disagree strongly enough that I am comfortable with saying that Limbaugh can go take his statements and go shove them up his ass.

Now, actually conspiring to screw things up: totally NOT okay.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
And you just know
If the Limbaugh and Beck's in this country are saying these kind of crazy things publicly they are probably saying things privately to their friends that actually are illegal.  That is why surveillance on these hatemongers is a necessity.

And no, this is not unprecendented.  You don't even have to go as far back as Lincoln for an example.  

J. Edgar Hoover knew what every person he labeled as a "subversive" was going to do before they did.  There is no reason a leftist version of Hoover and his associates cannot be placed in high ranking positions like FBI Director to monitor activities by right-wing lunatics.  

It may even be wise to collect intel on future potential right-wing Presidential candidates.  

[ Parent ]
Exactly right on Lincoln
He suspended habeus corpus to crack down on dissent.  And as far as I'm aware he never restored it before his death despite the civil war's end a short time earlier.
[ Parent ]
Hey, does this thing even have a normal or linear distribution?
Or is its distribution just completely out of whack?

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
286/400
Which I would expect because I don't consider myself a flamin' librul.  Im probably a bit more moderate than most who post at Daily Kos and Open Left but I'm still "very progressive" according to the survey.

"[Rush Limbaugh] is a sorry excuse for a human being and a has-been hypocrite loser who was more lucid when he was a drug addict." Congressman Alan Grayson (D-FL)
[ Parent ]
332
I still think that's a bit higher than I really am.
[ Parent ]
355


Follow the elections in Georgia at the 2010 Georgia Race Tracker.
[ Parent ]
My Score
I scored 207. I'm not a fan of these types of quizzes though where you choose 1-10.
[ Parent ]
Centrists
As far as centrists being "lazy", I'd say centrists are much better than the extremists on either side. It's one thing to fight for what you believe in, but, especially on the legislative side, it's a give and take type of thing.

One could argue that centrists are better versed on the issues than extremists, because centrists can see both sides of an issue and realize the need for a common ground in order to truly address the problems facing our nation.

[ Parent ]
Difference between
"centrist" and "independent"?

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
I'll take a stab
In our political system a centrist is someone politically in betwen the two parties.  Typically agreeing with each major party about half of the time.

An independent is someone who just doesn't want to be affiliated with a major party.  Though independents are not necessarily centrists in that they can be from the extreme left or right.  I for example consider myself a socialist.  It is only because we live in a two-party country that I choose to identify as a Democrat.  

[ Parent ]
I'm an Independent affiliation-wise
and am a leftist on most issues. But with the current duopoly and the Republican Party being almost completely unacceptable to me, I have no choice but to vote Democratic.

Check out the 2010 California races (http://2010californiaracetracker.wetpaint.com) and help us take back Red California! (http://www.takebackredcalifornia.org)
[ Parent ]
Not at all.
   Everyone has a right to an opinion.  But no one's opinion is worth more because they are in the middle of the scale or on the extreme parts of the scale.  
  We prefer to be called "radicals."  (361).  Thank you.  
  As a radical, I am perfectly capable of seeing the other sides of the argument.  I also believe that many of man's greatest accomplishments were made by "radicals."  Martin Luther King Jr., Mohandas Gandhi, Benjamin Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, etc.

John McCain lets lobbyists shape his economic policy
[ Parent ]
Basically
Radicals gave us George Washington, Ben Franklin, Gandhi, King Jr., Marx, Napoleon, Che, Lincoln etc.

Centrists gave our country such wonders as the 3/5th compromise, Jim Crow Laws and segregation far longer than should have been tolerated.

I'm damn proud to be in the radical camp rather than the centrist camp.

[ Parent ]
That's a very odd list.
Though I agree with your point.
[ Parent ]
Interesting quiz!
I was 299 (very progressive). I expected to do alot less, given that i consider myself a progressive-leaning centrist, and an Independent and not a Democrat.
[ Parent ]
Well, the minimum for being called "very progressive" is at most 263
Because that's what I got.

Seriously, I once took a quiz where you could get whole number scores between 0 and 10.  0-4 was "very bad", 5 was "okay", and 6-10 was "very good".  It was that stupidly extreme.

I wouldn't trust their label unless I saw how it was assigned and liked it.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

[ Parent ]
Progressive Test
333. More progressive than I would expect as, after the past 8 years, I am hesitant to allow government any additional powers, since the "wrong" people in power can really make a challenging situation an "us-against-them" ideological test.  While I make no bones about the weaknesses of the powerful monied and corporate elites setting policy, I don't feel that government decisions on all matters is desirable; in fact, I would consider it downright dangerous.  That said, i would consider myself libertarian in many respects, recognizing that there are certain area where government decision is necessary; when the common good outweighs individual choices.
[ Parent ]
CT-Sen, MN-Sen
CT-Sen: Well, at least he's consistently supporting the incumbent.

MN-Sen: Note that Wikileaks makes note that he shouldn't even have stored some of that information in the first place.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...

Corzine
This despite 61% of voters not knowing enough about Christie to form an opinion of him!

At least this means there's hope for Corzine.  Once they hear all about his Bush ties, they might like him even less than Corzine.

Yeah
I'll take proper notice after he drops a money nuke or three.
[ Parent ]
359...
Thought it would be a bit higher...
I think this thread got hijacked
by a very interesting comment.

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
296
When is Norm Coleman's next public interview?
Beltway hack Stu Rothenberg is at it again
CD Results
When are the results for the rest of the CDs in New York expected? I see there all centered in Nassau County.

Also, I'm doing a writeup on results by Assembly Districts in the five boroughs for my blog. Interesting results, Obama actually LOST ground some from Kerry in Brooklyn but no where else in the city.  

Liberty Avenue Politics - a place for politics in Southern Queens

Pretty soon
DavidNYC got his hands on the Nassau County data; unfortunately it's in hard-copy form instead of a nice txt file so it'll take a little while to make it usable.
[ Parent ]
Obviously I have way too much time on my hands!
Tiger in BlueDenver 382
IHateBush 365
etl 364
JFM110 362
cilerder86 361
californianintexas 359
liberal intellectual 359
TheUnknown285 355
DGM 353
ChadInFL 347
rocric 333
trowaman 332
bradley minoski 320
andgarden 317
adam.kretz 310
sicembears 300
HarrisCountyBrian 299
fai calif 296
Tyler Oakley 291
Menhen 286
BigDust 277
Glenn Magnus Harvey 263
conspiracy 256
RuralDem 207
Kyle98632 133
See: I'm a CENTRIST!

[ Parent ]
Oooh, I get second place!
Mine's 374. That means that I still get the satisfaction of being more progressive than almost everyone here, while not being the "unserious" guy that everyone who's progressive has to publicly denounce in order to run for office.
[ Parent ]
Members of Congress
We should make our members of congress do this.  I wonder if they'd be less moderate than we think.
[ Parent ]
I like it!
Need the moderators and ArkDemRajuncajin (who else is missing?)
[ Parent ]
Hmm...
SenateGuru (can be found on his blog)
TheCapedComposer (last seen active on SenateGuru)
AR Dem (different from ArkDemtheRaginCajun)
David something something (different from DavidNYC)
DavidNYC
James L.
Crisitunity
Andrew (a.k.a. Andrew MN)

Bill Posey is not half-alligator...and is outclassed by Davy Crockett anyway: http://www.washingtonmonthly.c...
[ Parent ]
DavidNYC can't risk posting his political score
Because word has it he's the frontrunner for Governor of NY in 2010.  
[ Parent ]
346
Socially Liberal, Civil Libertarian, not quite as Liberal on Economics (though still definitely to the left there as well).
[ Parent ]
SSP Daily Digest: 3/12 | 206 comments

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